posted October 15, 2011 08:33 AM            

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
The ascendant is your social mask--how others see you. The sun is who you are.

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posted October 15, 2011 08:50 AM            

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posted October 15, 2011 01:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Dear Xiiro
I have to study what you wrote. I want to come back and ask you some questions,if I may. You have a wonderful intuitive gift with the charts. Thank you for your insights

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posted October 15, 2011 01:46 PM            

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I would guess your Moon to be a lesson in emotional temperance. She personally identifies with Mars, he inspires her to find the same energy in herself. She emulates Mars and therefor takes on an slight energy of emotional endurance and strength (perhaps even a slight proneness to fast emotional reactions). Your Saturn is close to a trine, so your Moon views Saturn as an helpful friend, she listens to Saturn's counsel and takes his advise into serious consideration (which Saturn appreciates). This allows your Moon the ability to stop and take a deep look into what is happening in your emotional and personal life. Having "almost aspects" gives a planet the natural predisposition to use the close aspect, but also offers the planet freedom to make its own decisions. It is a very "take it or leave it" kind of situation.

Your Moon stands alone, but often ends up having to make decisions or learn lessons based on impulse vs deep grounding decision making/ emotional will vs emotional obstruction. Depending on how heavily aspected your Mars and Saturn are, I would wager you use the heavier aspected planet more readily.

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Thank you, Xiiro
I want to discuss some things about what you said.
You said because my moon aspects are wide orbs, my moon can be more independent in how it "thinks"
This is true but I have this question---Would it take on qualities of an unaspected moon?
The unaspected moon is a very,very sensitive person, which I am. By sensitive, I mean sensitive to all stimuli, physical and emotional, like highly tuned lol
I have a true unaspected Venus, so I have studied unaspected planets.

I am gonna to ask one question, at a time, and wait for you reply and thank you!

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posted October 15, 2011 02:23 PM            

Anyway, back to Saturn Retro conjunct the ASC I am thinking this may give a deep grounding to a person. Adding to the grounding would be a trine to a Cancer moon.

Would this give stability. I have no earth, an earth void.

Thank you so much for your insight, Xiiro.

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posted October 15, 2011 02:34 PM            

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Originally posted by waxlobster:
You know how I describe the Ascendant to people who don't know anything about astrology is as the child starting school {or nursery}.

Suddenly amidst a group of people, the same age and under pressure the interact, make friends, be accepted, understand one's place in the group. To me this describes the Ascendant.

The young child at home {hopefully} loved and nurtured effortlessly will not require the Ascendant. In your case with Saturn on the Ascedant perhaps that was not so much the case.

Generally however the Ascendant describes how we interact, how we successfully communicate our personalities primarily. The Sun sign is more about the person we are on the inside, the way we go about stuff. It all depends on what house the Sun is in whether there is a relationship between the Sun and Ascendant too etc.

In my case - Libra Rising conjunct Uranus. I couldn't fit in, I stood out regardless. Unusual name, different type of background, I even had a different way of communicating. I became successful at interacting when I began to express myself as creative, different, innovative. Once I found a way be unique {Uranus}, I developed a level of charisma {Libra}.

I found making friends very difficult until I 'grew into' my Ascendant

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My thoughts on my ascendant conjunct Uranus:

I have ascendant conjunct Uranus too and you are right I wasn't good at making friends in School when I was little and stuck out (except I did have great friends in my neighborhood thankfully). I went to catholic private school my whole life except for 5th and 6th and I stuck out to my peers in private school from 1st grade to 12th grade except for 5th and 6th and not as pronounced in High School. This stopped been an issue after high school and throughout college, university and grad school were I felt a lot more comfortable.

posted October 15, 2011 03:17 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:

Thank you, Xiiro
I want to discuss some things about what you said.
You said because my moon aspects are wide orbs, my moon can be more independent in how it "thinks"
This is true but I have this question---Would it take on qualities of an unaspected moon?
The unaspected moon is a very,very sensitive person, which I am. By sensitive, I mean sensitive to all stimuli, physical and emotional, like highly tuned lol
I have a true unaspected Venus, so I have studied unaspected planets.

I am gonna to ask one question, at a time, and wait for you reply and thank you!

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I would guess your Moon would have the intensity of an unaspected planet, with the tendency toward Saturn or Martian decision making. The question I would ask is, When you identify with the hypersensitivity of your Moon, does that sensitivity arise most often, when you are feeling challenged or seeking structure (feeling uneasy or unstable)? If so, that would be what I'm referring to as your Moon being inclined play with her "almost aspects".

I recall you mentioning your mother as a frustrating Aquarian force in your life. Aquarius can be an challenging and unpredictable energy. The low spectrum Aquarius view of "Weeds grow when you leave them alone, why do you need my help? Fine I'll give you some advice, when it rains, don't forget to drink" is not a very fertile environment for emotionally growing children. Saturnian sign people (especially female Saturnians) can have a hands off emotional policy because, "nobody ever pandered to them, and they turned out fine". Your sensitive Moon may be especially sensitive to challenges against anything you consider personal or "belonging to you" (Mar/Can) and concerned with not taking an idealized view of life, but discovering the deep truth of "what's REALLY going on" (Sat/Sco). If that is true, it may be due to an Aquarian mother who projected a solitary energy (unaspected) and stood as a personally challenging force (Mars) which required you to seek your own deep and realistic truth (Saturn).

posted October 15, 2011 03:34 PM            

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Originally posted by downtomars:
I am kind of cheating with this answer, but I wrote about it in my KTAA thread a couple of years ago and I still feel the same:

Regarding Sun Signs:
i suspect that only people who has planet in first house reflect their ascendant or the planet of the AC. inthis moment i am thinking of people with AC in piscis with moon in piscis conjunct AC from the 12...he is so piscis

also people with scorpio rising and pluto in the first.

things like that..

but AC without aspects or planets in the house. the sign itself does not say much. so at the end of the day is the aspects and planets the ones defining what trasnpire and people tend to believe that they convey their AC sign.

i will like just one example of somebody whose AC is in one sing with no planets in that sign being perceived or have something to do with the AC... experiences wanted
One of those arguments for Sun Signs:
I think that Sun signs can indicate certain things. For example – I worked at an outpatient mental health facility a few years ago, not for people with minor bouts of depression, but for people with Axis I psych diagnoses such as schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, bipolar disorder, etc. I had access to a database with all of the information of the clients in the county. One of the spreadsheet columns was for D.O.B. so of course, I had to run a report by birth date only (I removed the names) to see what signs showed up in the clinic most often. It turned out that there were very many Geminis and I think, maybe a handful of Libras out of hundreds. At first I was puzzled ”they are both air signs” hmm, that was what really got me stuck. I told my mom and being the double Cap she is she said “Gemini, the Twins, split personalities and Libra, the Scales, balanced”. Ohhh! I think I would have realized that eventually (ahem). But yeah, it was that easy and by Sun sign only. I know, I know, that seems overly simplistic and not representative of the entire population (it was only a sample, I [heart] statistics) but I think it actually is simple. I tend to notice things like that all of the time (Pallas in the 1st house), even recently, I temped at an orthopedic surgeon’s office and I noticed that most of the people who were on workers comp were Libra and Sagittarius, don’t know why, just the overwhelming majority.

Regarding the AC:

...they always say that the Ascendant is your “mask” and that it is more apparent to others than the sun sign but I am not too sure about that one. People who know astrology (and if my glyph tattoo is covered up) always guess that I am a Libra and I think someone got Leo once. I guess the Moon (in Libra) shines through, or it could be the Sun, Mercury, Venus and Jupiter in the 7th house. All I know is, no one has ever guessed Aquarius. Guess I am not “weird” enough (until you get to know me!)…

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posted October 15, 2011 05:17 PM            

The hardest thing for me is feeling that things are never safe enough.
I crave safety. I wish I could bore myself in a little hole and stay there

What would that mean in terms of the moon and Saturn, I assume. Thank you very much Xiiro.

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posted October 15, 2011 07:16 PM            

Sorry, I just discovered I missed your earlier questions .

1. Where do you get "stable hedonist" from, the Scorpio ASC? Would the hedonist be the Scorpio and the stable part be the Saturn?

I got “stable hedonist” from DSC in Taurus. I just came out of an 8 year “relationship-ish-thing” (don't ask lol) with a Sun Taurus/ASC Scorpio. Being a Gemini sun, you would of course be quite different, but “stable hedonist” was a perfect way to describe his ideal partner.

2. How would you fit an unaspected Gemini Venus in the 7th house,with Taurus on the cusp in here?

I would think this would manifest as a strong desire to separate your self from others (not in a negative way, but more as a way to gain perspective) in order to appreciate and investigate them. I would read that planetary/house structure to mean “I value the knowledge and communication of qualities in a relationship” Or “I like to take little decadent bites out of my relationships and really savor everything about them. That way I am best equipped to communicate beautifully with others” Or “I love any opportunity to get to know the individual qualities and value of people” Or “I love knowing and communicating people's qualities” Or “I connect with my environment through the integration, contemplation, and communication of that which I appreciate. Heheh, I love astrology.

3. Also, Gem Sun, Gem Merc and Cancer moon in the 8th house?

Whenever a planet is in Gemini, the conscious actions of the planet become VERY conscious, and the unconscious actions become VERY unconscious. It must be interesting to have Gemini rule the 8th, because the 8th house rules all the unconscious (, hidden, or dead) things which support our conscious (, apparent, or living) experience. The 8th house represents the middle of autumn, when the leaves are dieing in order to create a rich mulchy soil for the coming spring. It also represents 8:00pm when the last rays of sunlight are gone and we are decompressing from the days events in order to welcome a restful night. Here are some examples of 8th house stuff:

Psychology and Astrology are hidden forces which support our eventual outward expressions
Ancestry and Genetics are unapparent forces which support our growth, health, and expressions
Inheritance is physical benefit which comes from someone who is no longer physical
Taxes benefit our lives by creating schools, police, roads, etc... and the distribution of that benefit comes from government, which is a nonphysical entity.

So, Gemini must have a lot of fun and a bit of struggle in this house. Sun and Mercury in the 8th both feel at home in the private space within the self. Sun perceives it's self to exist as an observer behind the wall of the personality. There is a strong interest in discovering the hidden intentions or causes of the self/others. I would expect Mercury to be a bit more quiet in this house too, because the inner world will feel roomy enough for Gemini to expend a lot of its energy in. Where some Geminis may feel their thinking space is confined and therefor must communicate some of those thoughts into the world to make room, Mercury in the 8th thinks in the space we consider “inside me” (which is a pretty big room). Also, where mind for someone like me feels like a tool, or a calculator I keep in my pocket, I would expect an 8th house Mercury in Gemini to have a mind which is equally as vivid as the outside world. You may even be able to hear other people's thoughts if you understand how to turn down the volume in your head.

Cancer Moon in the 8th strengthens your emotional bond with people. Where Libra and the 7th seeks a connection with the outside world, Scorpio and the 8th is focused on understanding and maintaining that connection. A Cancer Moon here not only gives you the ability to personally feel the emotional needs of your environment, it provides you an ability to assess those needs deeply, based on an intuitive understanding of what caused those needs to arise. You can look into people and see the root of their needs. This is helpful in understanding people's true intentions. Emotionally you may discover that the 8th house does not manifest individually for each of us, but is collectively shared (as seems to be the case for all houses from 7 – 12). This means, just as you are capable of looking across a physical room and seeing a guy sitting in a chair, you are also capable of looking across your internal space and seeing the emotions, thoughts, and feelings of that same guy. This is why some people find Scorpio a bit creepy, because they literally have the capacity to be inside people's private spaces.

As a sentence, I would read your 8th house to say, “I observe, ponder, and communicate based on my personal and emotional understanding of why my environment and I are able to exist“. Haha wow, that's a mouthful.

4. Crazy things would be going on around me and I would go way down deep, in to my emotions and hold on, tightly. It would be like I was planting my feet on the ground. I,always, wondered what this was. Is part of this the Retro Saturn which strengthens the Saturn by making it more convoluted?

My understanding of retrograde planets is that the energy inverts or internalizes. When I think of retrograde planets I think of a Tai Chi class I took when I was a kid. One of the first things the instructor taught us was how to walk. After she taught us she said, “Now you will never accidentally walk backward off a cliff”. With retrogrades, it seems as if the planet starts walking backward. Imagine walking backward without looking behind you. Your awareness suddenly internalizes, you slow down, you listen to your body, you become very concerned with what your ears hear, and in a way you stop paying attention to things like how you look, or what other people are doing. Taking a single step can be a big experience, and your focus is no longer on whatever is in front of you, but more on your body's reaction to what ever arises. In the Tai Chi walk, you walk slowly and place your toe down before shifting your weight to it, that way if your toe goes over the edge of a cliff, you will know before it's too late.

It may be kind of a dumb example, but I see retrogrades similarly. When a planet starts moving backward, it becomes cautious in it's process and can lose awareness of things like how it looks (how it can be identified in our own personalities), or what kind of effect it has on others. In this way, looking inward at my own retrogrades, I have a difficult time actually seeing the planet functioning in my personality. My Sun's ruling planet is retrograde however, so I know it has to be a pretty big influence. Fortunately my retrograde Jupiter is opposed my Mercury (which is not retrograde). So often I can use Mercury to observe the effects my Jupiter has on my environment. It actually also reminds me of black holes. You can't directly see a black hole, you can only see it's effect on it's environment.

I think Saturn could be okay retrograde. It doesn't have a problem with taking things slow or setting up helpful rules based on a past stumbling. As long as one can learn to be aware of Saturn's weakness for become a dictator, it should be fine. Nobody wants the stress of walking backward and getting smacked on the knuckles by an old dude anytime they step on a rock. If anything, I believe it would give you a great ability to benefit from emotional solitude. I would wager your Gemini energy is not the sort that just spins its wheels. If this is the case, a lot of your thoughts can be of a serious matter, which requires solitude and recuperation occasionally.

5. Anyway, back to Saturn Retro conjunct the ASC I am thinking this may give a deep grounding to a person. Adding to the grounding would be a trine to a Cancer moon.
Would this give stability. I have no earth, an earth void.

Hmmm, I'm not sure. I certainly could see it adding stability to someone with no Earth. I'm sort of weird in that I don't consider Saturn stable by itself. I believe the conditions in which Saturn finds it's self determine its stability. For example, my Saturn is in Virgo 5th house and participates as part of a grand earth trine with Chiron in Taurus 1st and Mercury in Capricorn 9th. I also have a grand fire trine involving the Sun and Mars. You would think Saturn would be super stable in an earth grand trine, but because the earth trine is found in fire houses and fire is doing it's own trine thingy, it's not really the case. There is earthyness in the way I project myself, but a majority of it is just ash floating among the fire.

If Saturn represents the way we structure our lives and is the architect who plots our trajectory and determines the rules. Then an obsession like being considered appealing by others, forcing others to believe his religious views, or escaping from unpleasantness becomes the basis for his trajectory and rules. In these cases, I believe Saturn can be very unstable.

I agree that Saturn should play well with the Moon, especially if the Moon is in Cancer. Even the fact that both Saturn and Moon are in the same element, makes their interaction beneficial to each other. As long as Saturn isn't constantly reprimanding you about your appearance and the Moon isn't making you retreat into a cave because of Saturn's waggy finger, I can see your moon being a big help to your ASC.

posted October 15, 2011 07:44 PM            

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posted October 15, 2011 08:50 PM            

I'm reminded of the capacity for clouds to be both gentle and magnificent. Perfect examples of air and water in harmony.

posted October 15, 2011 09:02 PM            

Is an unaspected planet what is referred to as a singleton? and what does it mean? Does an unaspected planet have more influence over your character than planets with aspects?

posted October 15, 2011 09:10 PM            

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Good luck. like Sky and Ocean, Air and Water are notorious for standing face to face, but the moment either enters the other, it retreats back to its home.

I'm reminded of the capacity for clouds to be both gentle and magnificent. Perfect examples of air and water in harmony.

Having observed you for the past several months, I'm confident whatever the outcome, you will do a spectacular job at just being you. =)

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posted October 15, 2011 10:49 PM            

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Originally posted by amelia28:
Xiiro,

Is an unaspected planet what is referred to as a singleton? and what does it mean? Does an unaspected planet have more influence over your character than planets with aspects?

Amelia

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Hi Amelia,

I don't have any unaspected planets, nor have I had much direct personal experience with them. Unfortunately I try not to talk about things I haven't had personal experience with.

I am aware of Unaspected and Singleton planets being different, though I can imagine it would be easy for a planet to be both.

A Singleton is a planet in your chart which doesn't share an element, quality, or house type with any other planet. If your Sun is in Aries 7th House, and you have no other Fire, Cardinal, or 1,4,7,or 10th House planets, your Sun would be a singleton (as I understand it). In the case of unaspected planets, they simply have no angular interaction with the rest of your chart.

I'll be happy to give a guess on the difference between unaspected and singleton planets, based on what I have read if you like. I picture unaspected planets to feel disconnected from the rest of the personality. When we have nothing to give us feedback on our actions we grow a bit wild, sometimes exaggerated or insecure, and unstructured. Similar to a person who lives on a mountain away from others, the planet could make its own language and rules. I imagine unaspected planets to live in a world of their own and therefor may become exaggerated expressions of their energy. There may also be a feeling of having no help, being disconnected, or having to do things on your own where the planet is concerned. There is a capacity for great growth with an unaspected planet, because the planet is also not tied down by the opinions and politics observed by the majority personality. It may just be a matter of deciding to embrace the creative possibilities of having nobody to answer to. Vincent Van Gogh apparently had an unaspected Sun, and to me his art seems uniquely vibrant, but also deeply lonely.

In the case of Singletons, apparently they can stand out as strong influences in the chart (A champion of their Element, Quality, or House Type). I assume they act as the go-to-guy for all matters requiring their specialty. I wonder however if there is an exaggeration regarding their specialty or an inner desire to use that specialty as often as possible in their interactions. These ones I'm not horribly sure about however, because depending on their aspects, other planets can smack them around and put them in line, or bow to their every command. It would be an interesting thread to start.

posted October 16, 2011 10:08 AM            

An unaspected planet has no major aspects. It can have minor ones.

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posted October 16, 2011 01:27 PM            

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posted October 16, 2011 04:01 PM            

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Originally posted by amelia28:
The ascendent is the extroverted side of you and the Sun is the more introverted side of you. They are both integral parts of your personality.

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I never heard that. Can you explain, more?

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posted October 16, 2011 04:56 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Dear Xiiro
Could you take a look at my post on the moon and safety. Thank you!
I want to hear your opinion.

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posted October 16, 2011 05:32 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Xiiro
My moon wants structure and safety, badly. I don't care that much about challenges such as Mars would represent. Ego conflicts are not a huge thing in my life. I can handle them, pretty well. I handle them and walk away, with relative calm (even though it may not appear that way)

The hardest thing for me is feeling that things are never safe enough.
I crave safety. I wish I could bore myself in a little hole and stay there

What would that mean in terms of the moon and Saturn, I assume. Thank you very much Xiiro.

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