posted December 13, 2011 08:22 PM            

I don't have bad aspects to my Venus or moon not that I can see.. mostly trines.. and I don't stay in abusive relationships. I don't understand women that do, have a hard time understanding it. I don't tolerate abusive people, my mother has been in abusive relationships.. her whole life has been dwindling in abusive relationships... I know men get involved in abusive relationships... but why? I know there's a psychological pattern. Im curious if individuals with less to no bad aspects to their moon/Venus have a more evolved approach to love/overall esteem when in relationships compared to those with very uneasy moon/Venus aspects?

posted December 13, 2011 10:01 PM            

Mars hard aspect to Pluto is one marker for attracting abusive relationships/being an abuser. Mars to Sun/Moon/Mercury/Venus/Saturn/Uranus are others. Mars/Neptune does not have much potential to be 'harsh' on its own, but the danger is how Neptune can twist and distort energy, so under certain circumstances Mars/Neptune could be a factor as well, in men they could be very convoluted paranoid and cryptic individuals, esp the square.
If Uranus is strong, it can add to lashing out. If Pluto is strong it can add to volcanic eruptions. It can also provoke strong reactions in others, they are magnetic. Neptune has an issue with drawing boundaries, that is a problem, especially in women's charts, marking them as someone who is easily taken advantage of (depending on the rest of the chart). Neptune can easily be implicated in abusive situations.
Someone who may have natal potential to be an abusive person, may be so very tame, until they meet someone where there is a perfect storm. Their Pluto on the other's Asc can trigger their natal Pluto/Mars opposition in a negative fashion if other aspects/transits/progressions are adding to it. One abusive person is not abusive to all people.
The women are just the same as the men, they just aren't owning their power/masculine energy as it were. Or, as it often happens, the abusive situation acts as a trigger for them to reclaim their masculine power. Or if they are young, to claim it for the first time. For that, I would look to their Sun primarily, then Mars, then possibly Saturn.

Elizabeth Smart, for example, has a volatile conj of Sun to Pluto in Scorp less than 1 degree, and her story is abusive and Plutonic. Sun rules her Asc, Pluto her IC, (Asc is sq IC) so maybe this was something she needed to go through to see how much she is able to withstand. She also has NN in Aries in the 8th, a solo journey into a dark place of near death, and things of which only she sees, some of which she may never tell. Sun/Pluto is inconjunct her 8th house Moon. Moon opp Mars, Moon sq Neptune. Sun/Moon/Venus/Mars sq Neptune are pretty classic for a victim, or if not a victim then a self-defeating victim-mentality, Neptune loves to play that role.
His chart, the attacker's, Brian David Mitchell, even w/o tob, is no slouch. Sun/Neptune/Saturn conj, sq to Uranus, and trine to Jupiter providing easy opportunity to act out his volatile nature. Also, his big square there is in t square to her Jupiter. Jupiter encourages and exaggerates, so she was a great vehicle for his perversions. Her Mercury is conj his Sun/Saturn/Neptune, so he felt that he could talk to her and she would understand, he also wanted to brainwash her, so says the synastry. I believe that did happen. She has natal Jupiter trine Uranus, being open to new experiences, his Pluto turned it into a v.close Grand Trine. His Mars sq her Saturn and her Uranus, both factors for abuse. His Pluto sq to her Venus. What he did to her was incredibly ugly and with this synastry he enjoyed really every minute of it.
Oh, and whoever it was that was advocating Sun/Merc/Venus conj in composite as the love of their life? Guess what stellium Elizabeth Smart has with Brian David Mitchell.
They also have a Mars/Pluto/Uranus stellium in composite. It conjuncts his n.Venus, and sq to her n.Neptune, and conj her n.SN.

It doesn't really matter the gender of the abuser, both are involved in the exchange of that energy. Both partners involved in the abusive relationship, however that is defined, will have aspects for abuse in their natals. They'll have synastry that draws them together, and transits/progressions will often act as a trigger. Asteroid Karma has a say in this as well.

posted December 13, 2011 10:58 PM            

It could be many other things as well such as religious and cultural reasons. Financial reasons also. How many abusive men also control the finances and limit a woman's options outside the home? Most often, the abuse doesn't start until it's too late.....he may be sweet as pie but when she falls in love, hook line and sinker, that is when the abuse starts, when the person is emotionally vulnerable. That person may not have had low self esteem to begin with. There are not many laws to protect abused women or men in the US let alone children....especially philadelphia where I live. They say there are, they are resources but there very limited and the laws do not prosecute to fullest. It's common knowledge here that you get more time for beating your dog than you do for your wife.

You know how they say "what you eat, don't make me s**t?" totally applies to this right now. Just because you may know better doesn't make the other person less mentally competent because they are or are trying to escape an abusive relationship.

posted December 13, 2011 11:02 PM            

I wanted to walk away too, but it wasn't that simple. When you really love them, and they slowly break down your self esteem, bit by bit... You don't realise until you're really in the deep end.
And emotions aren't logical. When you really love someone, it's simply not a case of 'okay you're hurting me. So bye'

If it was that easy, you wouldn't see so many people in abusive relationships.

My one stems from my family issues and past issues with that. I was reading that book 'women who love too much' and it really stuck a cord. I finally know why I felt that relentless need to give.
It's all bc of what my past experiences taught me. Your family dynamics REALLY does affect your relationships.

posted December 13, 2011 11:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cappy1277:
tsk tsk tsk.....you know that this thread is going to have some throw backs.

It could be many other things as well such as religious and cultural reasons. Financial reasons also. How many abusive men also control the finances and limit a woman's options outside the home? Most often, the abuse doesn't start until it's too late.....he may be sweet as pie but when she falls in love, hook line and sinker, that is when the abuse starts, when the person is emotionally vulnerable. That person may not have had low self esteem to begin with. There are not many laws to protect abused women or men in the US let alone children....especially philadelphia where I live. They say there are, they are resources but there very limited and the laws do not prosecute to fullest. It's common knowledge here that you get more time for beating your dog than you do for your wife.

You know how they say "what you eat, don't make me s**t?" totally applies to this right now. Just because you may know better doesn't make the other person less mentally competent because they are or are trying to escape an abusive relationship.

And I am not trying to beat up on you or anything but I am a domestic abuse survivor that prosecuted to the fullest after 3 attempts on my life to see them downgraded from attempted murder to simple assault. I ran for many years, I had a great job, made great money, had my own place and a car. I didn't consider myself to have an esteem issue or was I a glutton for punishment. I am highly evolved mentally and spiritually and always have been but I fell in love with a jerk a**hole but he had a hard time letting it all go when i left all those times. I had to change residences 3 times in one year to save my life. So don't make the assumption that people stay in abusive relationships. Somewhere there is a fantasy in their head that they will eventually leave or kill that person.

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I know what it is like to be in a abusive relationship. Difference is i got out asap, even though I was emotionally involved like you are stating.

I would think preferring to be homeless is a much better option than entering the home of the abuser? that may ring true for most cases but it sounds like a cop out:

quote:

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Most often, the abuse doesn't start until it's too late.....he may be sweet as pie but when she falls in love, hook line and sinker, that is when the abuse starts, when the person is emotionally vulnerable.

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posted December 13, 2011 11:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mintgirl123:
I have moon conjunct venus (2 degrees)
but I also have moon and venus square chiron (both 1 degree both interpretations are really spot on unfortunately.

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posted December 13, 2011 11:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cappy1277:
too late meaning that the other person holds the purse strings, too late meaning that people would rather keep a roof over their children's head instead of living in the street with them...there are so many scenarios to imagine.

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posted December 13, 2011 11:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cappy1277:
I don't know of anyone who likes to stay in abusive relationships

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posted December 13, 2011 11:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cappy1277:
well lindisfarne is saying that she has been put into this situation but she immediately left it alone.

You really can't judge a person through astrology or their circumstances when it comes to this. it's a case by case scenario and nothing in astrology will actually point to any certain aspect.

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posted December 13, 2011 11:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cappy1277:
nothing in astrology will actually point to any certain aspect.

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posted December 13, 2011 11:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lindisfarne:
ok but i have been in the situation, but instead of staying i left, i recognized the red flags, psychological manipulation etc and left.

so i think i do have a right to comment at least thats what i strongly believe. and ive also grew up witnessing the situation.. my entire upbringing was based upon witnessing abuse of all kinds. so ya i think i do have some say in it.

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I grew up having a dad with major anger issues, a mum who had anger issues too. They fight everyday, so my whole life's been alot of conflict. They have also treated like I was never good enough. No matter how well I did with school. How much I did around the house. No matter how much I try, it hasn't ever been appreciated. All they did was put me down. So just a life time of expectations. A lifetime of shouting and screaming and condemnation. Both parents are scorpios.
I guess I never realised how it affected me until I got older. Seeing how my childhood was like, it was just a matter of time before I got involved with sb who saw my weakness and milked it for all it was worth.

Sucks but that past relationship did teach me alot. I've broken the cycle lol. My last ex was a really good guy, he was super sweet. But he wasn't for me.