posted January 17, 2012 09:07 PM            

"Moon square saturn might influence my avoidance traits. Also moon opposite pluto makes me emotionally numb? possibly."

Check out http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/211530.html for insightful info on moon sq. Saturn (especially posts by Taineberry).

For moon opp. Pluto check http://cafeastrology.com/natal/moonplutoaspects.html (some of it is below)
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Moon square or opposition Pluto:
You are not always open with your feelings. Although you have a strong urge to share your innermost emotions with others, you have a simultaneous desire to control what others know about you, which likely stems from fear. You crave a deep feeling of belonging and intimate connection with others, and yet your approach to realizing these desires is often self-defeating. Attempts to control situations as you strive towards this goal generally backfire. Fear of loss and betrayal can consume you, and manipulating others so that you can keep them attached to you leads to empty satisfaction at best, and hopelessness at worst. At times you come across as emotionally distant and self-protective (and even cold in expression), and other times you are expressing an intensity of feeling that can go so far as intimidate, overwhelm, and scare off others. As much as you want to share yourself emotionally with others, you rarely reveal your vulnerabilities. When angered and hurt by a loved one, you can express yourself with such intensity that it comes across as hostile and even hateful. You might sulk, but more likely you brood or even lash out. You may not even be aware of how strongly you express yourself in these instances, and you might come across as far more dangerous or hateful than you actually are. Alienating others can actually baffle you, as your goal is to become closer. Game playing is something that you should try to avoid. Even if you do "succeed" at keeping a person in your life through emotional manipulation for the time being, you will never know that they are with you of their own accord, and this only serves to refuel your fear of rejection. Learning to accept your emotions for what they are, and more importantly, to express them in a manner that allows others "in" rather than scares them away, is an important challenge in your life.

Some people with these aspects are more in touch with their feelings than others, and as a result, enjoy tackling problems and learning about emotional complexities, both in themselves and in others. Others with these aspects are hell-bent on burying rather than digging up their deepest feelings. Either way, they are intense individuals!

Women with this aspect (from the Astrology Profile for Women report): With your Moon in opposition to Pluto, you feel everything at a deep, intense level. You rarely wade in the shallows, since immersing yourself in whatever you're doing is much more gratifying. Your intensity can also stimulate compulsive or obsessive levels of behavior. You can also be an intimidating woman, especially when you're focused on something (or someone!), and can become completely absorbed in your own feelings. This energy is wonderful for healing, since you have the capability of penetrating into the depths and releasing blocks; although it may be easier to direct this energy toward someone else than it is to direct toward yourself.

Men who are uncomfortable with their emotional nature and their own vulnerabilities may feel exposed when they are around you. Even though you may not intend to overwhelm them, you sometimes do. In your close relationships, it is crucial to allow others to be themselves, warts and all. Your tendency might be to transform them, and that could be dangerous. However, if a person is working towards change, you can certainly be helpful, and you may be the catalyst for change in the lives of many people. As a mother, you can be extremely attentive and aware. You can also be overly protective and can create an atmosphere of claustrophobia for your kids if you go too far. Use your sensibilities to determine how your children are responding, and allow yourself to back off when necessary. Otherwise, you may reach a point where it feels that you are abandoning ship in the midst of a storm.

Through the tense square between your Moon and Pluto in your chart, your emotionality is extremely intensified. You may hold some deep-seated resentments, and can hang onto guilt eternally unless you make an effort to release it. Your trust of your own power as a woman can be undermined, especially if you felt emotionally abused as a child. It is quite possible that you were mistreated because one of your parents resented your being there, but you may also have been simply struggling for survival in a situation which provided little emotional nurturance. Regardless of the particulars of your early conditioning, you do have the capability to healing these old wounds through the same energy which has sustained their pain.

You may be drawn to relationships for the pure physical pleasure and stimulation they provide, but may not want to feel emotionally close due to your lack of trust. Yet deep within your soul you may long for that bonding which results from the alchemy of two souls merging. Since you were not issued an instruction manual about how to deal with people when you entered this life, you need to give yourself plenty of time and room to research human nature and human emotion. Safe circumstances like a friendship with someone who shares your interests can give you a chance to learn about trust - but you must be honest about your feelings! Even though you might think that you would prefer to live apart from society, fitting into social situations can help you trust yourself more fully, because interacting with others helps you develop objectivity. To have the love and tenderness you need from others, you must learn forgiveness, too. That forgiveness begins within yourself, and releasing tension and stress while also letting go of the burdens from your past will help you feel much more light, alive and free. Then, and only then, can you feel good about the power of being a whole woman.

Some Famous People with the Moon in Hard Aspect to Pluto: Squares - Jim Morrison (The Doors), Meryl Streep, Oliver Stone, Marlon Brando, Joe Cocker, Wayne Gretzky, Charles Dickens, Fabio, Carrie Fisher, Mohandas Gandhi, Naomi Judd, Jim Jones, Steve Martin; Oppositions - Sam Donaldson, Tom Brokaw, Johnny Carson, Chevy Chase, Dale Earnhardt, Merv Griffin.
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I would also read cafe astrology's take on moon trine or sextile Pluto to understand the inherent strength of Pluto's aspect to moon, meaning what you may see as a weakness, could potentially be transformed (by Pluto) to become your emotional strength (explained in the trine and sextile aspects).
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"Think of myth of narcissus, he had many people fall in love with him yet he rejected everyone, (he was not capable of loving others) Until he saw his reflection and fell in love. Then drowned because he was all beauty and no brains :P"

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"Most of my relationships have only been sexual, I can't really commit to anyone. I'm to selfish."

Do you think that behind the selfishness lies a deep seated fear of rejection of your true self... so that it is better for you to preemptively reject others before they could reject you?

If so, then the answer possibly lies in your complete acceptance of yourself first, i.e., all parts of your personality, particularly your moon qualities which would be most important for intimacy. Obviously your moon is stressed in your chart so you may have to work harder than others to allow full expression of your moon, but if you're willing to put in the work (and it sounds like you are) the payoff will be a more harmonious, cohesive personality, able to engage in this "thing" called love that everybody longs for and then goes gaga over when they do find it.
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"I've just learn to love being single. I have true node in the 7th house too."

Is this because you actually love being single or have been forced to make this choice because Saturn is pressuring you to be completely self reliant emotionally (in a square to moon this could take the extreme form of seeing the need for others as a weakness)?

One of the effects of Pluto in your 5th could be high intensity in matters related to love. Exploring this intensity through your emotions (rather than in a detached, rational way) would be a good way to get to the depths of understanding your own feelings. Over time as you learn to handle your own emotions (there might be some fear related to this due to Moon sq. Saturn) you will gain confidence in understanding others and be able to relate with them more intimately.

Along with understanding your moon qualities, I would also fully try and understand the manner in which Saturn and Pluto apply control in hard aspects. I feel that Saturn's control is more direct while Pluto's is not. This is where Taineberry's posts in the thread I've mentioned above are very helpful (as related to Saturn).

I think your use of astrology as a way to understand yourself better is wise. Engaging with others about this is also an excellent teaching method for yourself.

Eventually when, after you've learned to fully express your emotional self, you find that the single life is what you'd like, so be it. At least then you will have made a fully informed (therefore personally satisfying) decision rather than making a decision out of fear which you may be inclined to at the moment, given the stress being placed on your moon by Saturn and Pluto.
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"Mainly because animals and kids give you unconditional love, and they are innocent The only time I'm not selfish is when I have to babysit."

It's true that children can be a source of unconditional love, but we must also remember that they tend to express their own needs more openly than adults. That is an important lesson worth learning from them...the ability to express our own needs in a trusting way within the confines of a close relationship. Also, children are not afraid of rejection the way adults are. Quite the contrary...they expect their needs to be met, so are unafraid to ask.
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"Hmmm possibly. I would be a much warmer person. I think betrayal and cheating is apart of human nature. We would be perfect beings, and would probably create a utopia. Everyone has a dark side. Corruption has been with us since the beginning of man-kind. I'm probably just cynical thou."

I'm not denying that the world can be an unfriendly place, but it can also be a friendly place...should we choose to make it so, within our own small sphere. Here I would put into practice, some basic spiritual
laws and principles, eg., like attracts like, so what we put out we will tend to get back. We cannot change the world at all but we can change ourselves a lot. So if we can learn to be a bit more trusting then we can begin to attract more trusting people into our lives. And if hurtful things happen to us we can slowly build confidence in our ability to handle the pain rather than avoid it. You do not seem to lack the courage to handle this.
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I would also read up on ego as much as you can. I have not delved into it fully, but in a nutshell, it tends to step in to defend a position of perceived weakness within us, i.e., we try to cover up the perceived weakness w/in ourselves by using pretense, denial, etc., (tools of ego). Ego is a handy tool at certain times e.g., extreme mental and emotional stress, trauma, and such, but when used indiscriminately, it can lead to the development of mental and emotional issues.

Kudos for discussing this openly. I think you're on the right path.

Wishing you lots of love in your future (should you want it)

posted January 18, 2012 08:25 PM            

I wonder what's going on w/ this thread as I cannot read anyone's posts after my own at 9:07 pm Jan 17. Did they all get deleted?

posted January 18, 2012 08:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Geminisquared,

I wonder what's going on w/ this thread as I cannot read anyone's posts after my own at 9:07 pm Jan 17. Did they all get deleted?

Anyway I wanted to ask you to post your natal moon position (house and sign) as well as the positions of your Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars (by sign and house) and also all aspects made to your inner planets by the outer ones. Thanks.

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Yeah, I have no idea why. I'll just post my chart
http://i.imgur.com/UpwNM.gif

posted January 18, 2012 10:13 PM            

No, I didn't get to read your replies which is a shame 'cause I wanted to read what amelia28 had to say also--she was really making some good points. I had a lot of trouble posting my response last night and it was only on this thread, none other. Sigh!

So! I've taken a quick look at your chart. Would you leave it up for some time 'cause I wanted to ask you some questions too, if that's ok w/ you.

I'm by no means an astrology expert, but am interested in it as well as Psychology. Right off the bat I would say that it's not just your moon sq. Saturn sq. Pluto opposite moon that is creating unrest. I think Uranus in the 7th squaring your Mars and sesquiquadrate your Venus and Mercury is creating major impatience in the area of love and relationships. Jupiter squaring Sun, Mercury, and Venus in the 12th may lead to excess in the planets it aspects, e.g., sq. Sun may lead to ego problems, sq. Mercury may result in a lot of big, almost grandiose ideas but difficulty channeling or focusing them to make them a practical reality, sq. Venus (which in turn is semisquare Mars and sesquiquadrate Uranus) can increase the chances of turbulence through love and sex. In relationships all these aspects will tend to add a note of disharmony by making you extremely self-willed and independent. Since laid-back moon in Taurus is squaring Saturn, there will def. be a tendency for the emotions to not get involved. Hence the casual, only for sex relationships. Neptune in the 7th can make for the impossible and elusive search for the perfect ideal setting yourself up for repeat disappointments as you find that your "perfect" ideal doesn't exist.

So! Kay, there's a lot of stress here, but guess what?! There's also a strong ray of hope--through Neptune conjunct Uranus in the 7th square Mars in Aries. This aspect is found in the charts of advanced spiritual thinkers and leaders (Mars in Aries). It gives you insight into the affairs of the earth and a practical viewpoint of what heaven entails.

The Mars/Neptune aspect plus moon trine Neptune (elevated, refined emotions) will give you the guidance you need to find your way. The trine between moon and Jupiter will also give you a much needed boost in this area.

My overall intuitive feeling is as follows:
Under the clutter of your headstrong, impulsiveness and impatience, and fear of caring for another is a genuinely sensitive, caring person with a lot of inner 12th house planet (3 no less) beauty (as yet untapped). The way to tap into all this reserve seems to be through your Neptune (planet of spirituality). Your strength lies in going inward using your grounded emotions (moon in Taurus) to make your dreams a reality using your own spiritual self as your most important tool, instead of letting other people affect your judgments about yourself or creating an image of who you are.

posted January 18, 2012 11:29 PM            

Could I save my ques. for perhaps tomorrow as I'll have to get offline pretty soon.

But could you let me know what you think about my assessment of your inner strength? About whether that is something you can relate to at this point? I ask because I think you're actually extremely idealistic even tho' you call yourself selfish.

About my chart, it's very interesting 'cause my moon at 14 Taurus is conjunct your moon in Taurus (orb of 1.0), my Mercury at 10 Gemini is conjunct your Sun, Mercury, and Venus. My Sun at 2 Gemini is conjunct your Venus, Mercury, and your Sun. My Mars at 9 Aries is widely conjunct your Mars. My Jupiter at I Capricorn is tightly conjunct your NN in your 7th (which explains the expansiveness and goodwill I feel toward your life direction). And oh I also have Pluto in the 5th. If I see any more interesting connections I'll let you know. but this is the first time I've ever asked anyone for their aspects. Something about what you wrote in your thread awakened a desire in me to look further

posted January 18, 2012 11:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Oh good you got the post.

Could I save my ques. for perhaps tomorrow as I'll have to get offline pretty soon.

But could you let me know what you think about my assessment of your inner strength? About whether that is something you can relate to at this point? I ask because I think you're actually extremely idealistic even tho' you call yourself selfish.

About my chart, it's very interesting 'cause my moon at 14 Taurus is conjunct your moon in Taurus (orb of 1.0), my Mercury at 10 Gemini is conjunct your Sun, Mercury, and Venus. My Sun at 2 Gemini is conjunct your Venus, Mercury, and your Sun. My Mars at 9 Aries is widely conjunct your Mars. My Jupiter at I Capricorn is tightly conjunct your NN in your 7th (which explains the expansiveness and goodwill I feel toward your life direction). And oh I also have Pluto in the 5th. If I see any more interesting connections I'll let you know. but this is the first time I've ever asked anyone for their aspects. Something about what you wrote in your thread awakened a desire in me to look further

I'll speak w/ you some more tomorrow. Good night.

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posted January 19, 2012 05:34 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
Sun conj Venus-naricissism.

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My ex's mum also has this and she is far from narcissistic.

posted January 19, 2012 07:33 AM            

quote:

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Narcissistic Vampires

have huge egos and tiny consciences. It's not they're actively trying to hurt people; they just never consider other people at all, unless they want something.

LEGENDS IN THEIR OWN MINDS with talent like theirs, who needs performance?
LOOK FOR: Self-proclaimed genius, with membership in MENSA listed as greatest life achievement.
DRAW YOU IN WITH: Talent and potential.
DRAIN YOU BY: Blaming everybody else for their inability to realize that potential.
THE ONE YOU SEE EVERY DAY: Your brother-in-law, the genius who can't hold down a job.
DEFENSIVE STRATEGY: Getting them to do the parts they don't like first, and paying attention to performance rather than talk.

SUPERSTARS do what it takes to climb the ladder of success – whatever it takes, especially taking advantage other people.
LOOK FOR: Success, achieved at all costs.
DRAW YOU IN WITH: Talent, charisma, and acting as if you were as cool as they think they are.
DRAIN YOU BY: Perpetually seeing their needs as more important than anybody else's, and not giving a rip once they've gotten what they want.
THE ONE YOU'RE MOST LIKELY TO SEE EVERY DAY: Politicians, prima-donnas, and hard-driving competitors who throw tantrums when they lose,
DEFENSIVE STRATEGY: Keep a ledger book in your mind. Make sure Superstars pay up front for anything they want from you. Never accept promises or extend credit.

THE SMARTEST, MOST TALENTED,
ALL-AROUND BEST PERSON IN THE WORLD TEST:
THE NARCISSISTIC VAMPIRE CHECKLIST
True or false? Score one point for each true answer.
1. THIS PERSON HAS ACHIEVED MORE THAN MOST PEOPLE HIS OR HER AGE.
2. THIS PERSON IS FIRMLY CONVINCED THAT HE OR SHE IS BETTER, SMARTER, OR MORE TALENTED THAN OTHER PEOPLE.
3. THIS PERSON LOVES COMPETITION, BUT IS A POOR LOSER.
4. THIS PERSON HAS FANTASIES OF DOING SOMETHING GREAT OR BEING FAMOUS, AND OFTEN EXPECTS TO BE TREATED AS IF THESE FANTASIES HAD ALREADY COME TRUE.
5. THIS PERSON HAS VERY LITTLE INTEREST IN WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE THINKING OR FEELING, UNLESS HE OR SHE WANTS SOMETHING FROM THEM.
6. THIS PERSON IS A NAME DROPPER.
7. TO THIS PERSON IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO LIVE IN THE RIGHT PLACE AND ASSOCIATE WITH THE RIGHT PEOPLE.
8. THIS PERSON TAKES ADVANTAGE OF OTHER PEOPLE TO ACHIEVE HIS OR HER OWN GOALS.
9. THIS PERSON USUALLY MANAGES TO BE IN A CATEGORY BY HIM OR HERSELF.
10. THIS PERSON OFTEN FEELS PUT UPON WHEN ASKED TO TAKE CARE OF HIS OR HER RESPONSIBILITIES TO FAMILY, FRIENDS, OR WORK GROUP.
11. THIS PERSON REGULARLY DISREGARDS RULES OR EXPECTS THEM TO BE CHANGED BECAUSE HE OR SHE IS IN SOME WAY SPECIAL.
12. THIS PERSON BECOMES IRRITATED WHEN OTHER PEOPLE DON'T AUTOMATICALLY DO WHAT HE OR SHE WANTS THEM TO DO, EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR NOT COMPLYING.
13. THIS PERSON REVIEWS SPORTS, ART, AND LITERATURE BY TELLING YOU WHAT HE OR SHE WOULD HAVE DONE INSTEAD.
14. THIS PERSON THINKS MOST CRITICISMS OF HIM OR HER ARE MOTIVATED BY JEALOUSY.
15. THIS PERSON REGARDS ANYTHING SHORT OF WORSHIP TO BE REJECTION.
16. THIS PERSON SUFFERS FROM A CONGENITAL INABILITY TO RECOGNIZE HIS OR HER OWN MISTAKES. ON THE RARE OCCASIONS THAT THIS PERSON DOES RECOGNIZE A MISTAKE, EVEN THE SLIGHTEST ERROR CAN PRECIPITATE A MAJOR DEPRESSION.
17. THIS PERSON OFTEN EXPLAINS WHY PEOPLE WHO ARE BETTER KNOWN THAN HE OR SHE IS ARE NOT REALLY ALL THAT GREAT.
18. THIS PERSON OFTEN COMPLAINS OF BEING MISTREATED OR MISUNDERSTOOD.
19. PEOPLE EITHER LOVE OR HATE THIS PERSON.
20. DESPITE THIS PERSON'S OVERLY HIGH OPINION OF HIM OR HERSELF, HE OR SHE IS REALLY QUITE INTELLIGENT AND TALENTED.
Scoring: Five or more true answers qualifies the person as a Narcissistic Emotional Vampire, though not necessarily for a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality. If the person scores higher than ten, and is not a member of the royal family, be careful that you aren't mistaken for one of the servants.

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posted January 19, 2012 04:27 PM            

"Lmaooo soul mates?"

I know, right? At the very least it explains why I wanted to look into it some more. Astrology rocks!

posted January 19, 2012 05:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Geminisquared,

"Lmaooo soul mates?"

I know, right? At the very least it explains why I wanted to look into it some more. Astrology rocks!

Quick ques.- could you confirm your gender? It will make a difference to my questions. Thanks.

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posted January 19, 2012 05:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
Sun conj Venus-naricissism.

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posted January 19, 2012 05:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Capriquarius:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
[b]Sun conj Venus-naricissism.

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My ex's mum also has this and she is far from narcissistic.

I'm not gonna expound on how this aspect manifests for each of these individuals, since threads will pop up contradicting my interpretations.[/B][/QUOTE]

posted January 19, 2012 05:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Geminisquared:
Yeah I partly agree with you. I think one single aspect can not make someone narcissistic or vain . If were looking at this aspect alone. sun (ego) is influencing venus it could make someone vain. Beauty would be important to them, as or your friend it had the opposite effect. if venus is badly aspected it could make someone really unconfident about their appearance. That just my 2 cents. I would imagine a pisces with sun conjunct venus charming and down to earth.

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posted January 19, 2012 10:38 PM            

The ques. are more or less of a personal nature so if, at any moment you don't feel comfortable answering, please say so. Like I said earlier I want to learn but it will never be at the expense of someone's comfort. Also, the extent to which I gain knowledge/understand will be in direct proportion to the extent of your openness. To this end I'm willing to give you my e-mail address so you can correspond directly. It will be your call.

If there's something you haven't thought about before, I'm hoping that by considering your answers, you might also gain from this experience.

So... thank you.

1) At what age were you diagnosed with NPD and AvPD?

2) You said you end your casual relationships when you get "bored." Does this usually happen when you begin to feel that either you or your partner is beginning to get emotionally involved?

Saturn in your 8th may put a damper on shared resources--which can also include inner resources such as deepest thoughts, feelings, emotions, which could potentially be a source of strength for your partner. But your reluctance to share yourself in this way could add to the current overall chart theme of little or no emotional involvement.

I'll wait for your response as I don't wish to inundate you.

posted January 19, 2012 11:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Geminisquared, here goes...

The ques. are more or less of a personal nature so if, at any moment you don't feel comfortable answering, please say so. Like I said earlier I want to learn but it will never be at the expense of someone's comfort. Also, the extent to which I gain knowledge/understand will be in direct proportion to the extent of your openness. To this end I'm willing to give you my e-mail address so you can correspond directly. It will be your call.

If there's something you haven't thought about before, I'm hoping that by considering your answers, you might also gain from this experience.

So... thank you.

1) At what age were you diagnosed with NPD and AvPD?

2) You said you end your casual relationships when you get "bored." Does this usually happen when you begin to feel that either you or your partner is beginning to get emotionally involved?

Saturn in your 8th may put a damper on shared resources--which can also include inner resources such as deepest thoughts, feelings, emotions, which could potentially be a source of strength for your partner. But your reluctance to share yourself in this way could add to the current overall chart theme of little or no emotional involvement.

I'll wait for your response as I don't wish to inundate you.

Let me know if you want my e-mail. Also let me know if you don't want to go through w/ it at all. I'll completely understand your desire for privacy 'cause I think I sorta kinda get where you're coming from.

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1) I was diagnosed at 15
2) I'm actually very picky, In the beginning of a "relationship" If I see something that bothers me I will probably just "want to be friends"; so to speak. I also attract less then reputable people.