posted February 09, 2012 07:35 PM            

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Originally posted by Tofu addict:
You need to have your psychic antennes out, they won't tell you things straight, you have to know what they want and feel.
They need privacy and complete acceptance, once trust is broken they are gone. If they are secretive it doesn't mean that they are deceiving, they just need more time to trust you. Move slowly, woe them with kindness, gentleness, softness. They are in touch with the shadow side of life, don't be put off by that, delve into the weirdness of their ideas, who turn out mostly to be not that weird at all, just not that convential. When they wake you up in the night because they need to tell you about their astral travels they just returned from, listen to them, don't laugh or shrub it off, they have really been there. And ABOVE all, always make them feel that you are there for them, they do need to feel that, because it is a lonely universe for them

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Is this about people who have twelfth house planets? I think this is pretty accurate, which is interesting. All of the people I know who have planets in the 12th--they are pretty out there and I love every moment of it.

posted February 09, 2012 07:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tofu addict:
You need to have your psychic antennes out, they won't tell you things straight, you have to know what they want and feel.
They need privacy and complete acceptance, once trust is broken they are gone. If they are secretive it doesn't mean that they are deceiving, they just need more time to trust you. Move slowly, woe them with kindness, gentleness, softness. They are in touch with the shadow side of life, don't be put off by that, delve into the weirdness of their ideas, who turn out mostly to be not that weird at all, just not that convential. When they wake you up in the night because they need to tell you about their astral travels they just returned from, listen to them, don't laugh or shrub it off, they have really been there. And ABOVE all, always make them feel that you are there for them, they do need to feel that, because it is a lonely universe for them

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OMG

I have Mars in 12th house and Jupiter in 12th house.

This is so well written and said.

posted February 09, 2012 07:51 PM            

What you said is 100% true. The problem is..we always FEEL like people don't understand..but we don't bother letting people in. We just sometimes ASSUME they don't understand. It's very hard for us to let people in because all we get from our surroundings are just "You don't know what you want" "you are so directionless" "what are your goals?" "what do you want to do in life, see you don't know! You don't know anything!"

All I want is someone who can be there for me...and when I feel I am losing them, I feel super threatened and a part of me dies. Back to our lonely universe.

posted February 09, 2012 08:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tofu addict:
...And ABOVE all, always make them feel that you are there for them, they do need to feel that, because it is a lonely universe for them

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posted February 09, 2012 08:15 PM            

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Guilt looms large with this placement of Saturn although it is generalized rather than specific guilt. It may cause a man to seek penance through solitude, or there may be religious penance in the literal sense resulting in the monk or the nun. It may apparently be involuntary penance as is the case with incarceration; but the man himself chooses this course although he may not consciously believe he will have to pay. It may result in sickness or withdrawal from conscious awareness through drugs, alcohol, or insanity. Or it may be much more subtle and less drastic, as in the case of the man who is always alone and always feels separation from the rest of humanity and the rest of life, no matter how many people he surrounds himself with.
~~By Liz Greene, A New Look at an Old Devil~~

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The key word for me is that this is by choice. I want people out of my life and to leave me alone. The rare exceptions include my wife. Otherwise, get away from me because people just represent trouble, beginning with my parents.

posted February 09, 2012 08:23 PM            

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“Your twelfth house moon suggests that you are a private person, hesitant to reveal your feelings and needs. Often, fearful of your vulnerability, you block awareness of your feelings; you seek refuge from your inner world in habitual activities which you may perform in an automatic manner. Contacting your hidden emotional self may be difficult for you, because you have developed a lifetime of defenses against primitive levels of need and dependency which frighten you. You may feel intense shame in regard to the child-self which is buried within you.

Repressed for a long time, your sadness and longing may sometimes burst forth as infantile tears, which seem regressive and inappropriate. Like Alice in Wonderland drowning in the flood of her tears, you feel overwhelmed, and seek to squelch future displays of feeling. “Be strong;don’t cry” may be your motto. You are afraid not only of drowning in your feelings and your needs, but also of revealing your vulnerability to others, then being rejected or abandoned.

Perhaps because of traumatic experiences as a child, in which you experienced unbearable helplessness, need, and dependency in relationship to a parent who could not sensitively respond, you learned to turn to yourself early in life and to establish your self-sufficiency. “I must do it alone; I don’t need anyone,” you decided, as you withheld yourself emotionally in relationships, and learned how to engage with people without full involvement. Emotionally self-contained and insulated, you became a capable survivor, and learned how to effectively play the roles required of you. But often, as a result of your repression, you feel empty and depleted, out of contact with your source of inner sustenance.

If your moon is deeply buried, you may struggle against fear of the primitive infant locked within you, and against a desire to return to the womb or to escape into fantasies of total nurturance. Fearful of your passivity and your desire for motherly love, you compensate through cultivating your adult competencies and by becoming a caregiver. But although you are independent in the external world, you hold onto your established patterns of behavior and to whatever internal sources of security you have developed.

Forced to turn to yourself early in life, you learned how to take care of yourself, and how to substitute behaviors and activities for the nurturing from others you did not receive. You may as a result be compulsive about your self-caretaking rituals, particularly in regard to food. Tendencies toward anorexia, adherence to strict diets, preoccupation with cooking, and fear of eating in restaurants are all manifestations of a twelfth house moon. Sometimes, you become ill as a means of resting from the demands of your adult self, and in order to allow yourself to receive the caretaking that you seek.

Your twelfth house moon suggests that you never felt allowed to be a child. Perhaps your mother was emotionally a child herself, and wanted you to cater to her needs rather than become capable of responding to yours. She may have been deeply troubled, psychologically or physically unavailable; she may have sacrificed herself to involvements in the outer world at the expense of her family life. Whatever your situation, her negative responses to your needs and feelings, and her messages of “don’t cry” “be strong” or “do it yourself” led you to believe that you had no right to have feelings. The hurt or trauma you experienced then may have resulted in a deep-seated decision never to make yourself vulnerable again. “I’d rather die than need you,” you may have inwardly said to your mother, “because if I need you I will have to bear the intolerable pain of your failure to meet my needs.” As you grew older, fearing the re-stimulation and opening of earlier wounds, you may have said to yourself, ” I will not be dependent upon anyone ever again.”

Often a twelfth house moon signifies a failure in the early attachment bond with the mother, although a deep inner bond with her exists. Such a bond ( accompanied by idealization) persists in part because you need to hold on to her psychically, as a result of not having received adequate nurturing. Frequently, a twelfth house moon suggests problems in the oral or suckling stage or lack of adequate physical nurturance. If your mother was unable to rspond to your nonverbal (and verbal) signals, you learned to distrust closeness to other persons, and failed to develop a healthy degree of trust.

Because of childhood trauma, you may have repressed your early experiences, and remember little of your family life; you may also have developed a lifestyle which involves minimal family contact. Perhaps because you neer had a secure home, or because you fear experiencing your need for a home and family life, you may avoid creating a home that could be truly nurturing for you. Sometimes, people who have Twelfth house moons never develop roots anywhere; they move frequently, unable to settle down, afraid of sinking into the feelings and needswhich they associate with attachment to home and family.

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posted February 09, 2012 08:53 PM            

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Originally posted by pisces moon:
I don't even know what to look for. Here's the synastry chart.

See anything that would reflect our relationship?

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Hmmm I don't know that much about astrology but..moon square mars? maybe?

posted February 09, 2012 09:19 PM            

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Originally posted by Starry~*:
^ Where'd you get that interp?

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I made it up.. Just kidding. Lol

It's pretty messed up, that's for sure. It even goes on to say a woman can't relate to being a woman.

It explains why she's such a nurturing mother, and yet explains why she behaves a lot more like a man.

posted February 10, 2012 01:02 AM            

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Originally posted by FireWire:
Is this about people who have twelfth house planets? I think this is pretty accurate, which is interesting. All of the people I know who have planets in the 12th--they are pretty out there and I love every moment of it.

But they do often times seem very, very lonely. Not from the surface. It is just what I sense, and what I feel, you know. Almost like there is a bit of sadness waiting to trickle down at any moment. And, it makes me become exactly as you describe towards them.

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Yes it is from the viewpoint from 12th house planet people. Having a stellium there myself.

posted February 10, 2012 11:02 AM              

Basic astrology forum, 12th house planets http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum12/private-jjLYZw161/HTML/000666.html

posted February 10, 2012 11:12 AM              

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Originally posted by Starry~*:
The current man I'm seeing has saturn conjunct sun in 12th.

I'm also a sun in 12th person natally.

What you put up in regards to saturn in 12th has made me really think into this. Thanks for sharing!

It is difficult, least to say. I am still experiencing T Saturn thru my 12th house conjunct sun in Libra...I must say, it does not feel good at all...

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Saturn in 12th is probably one of the worst placements...

saturn in or ruling 12th house can show a father either absent, missing or simply effectual in setting boundaries structures and alike in early childhood. psychological or physical absence of a father (or authority figure) who worked, or who provided a model for you in terms of discipline, organisation, and coping with the realities of everyday living, you were not encouraged to develop your ambition or your competitive spirit, or to believe in your potential for success. This can add listlessness and not finding ones direction

Serve or suffer are the keynotes here and the individual can choose which way he will take: but choose he must. Always a subconscious wish to retreat.
Craving for solitude. Great sensitivity. A deep seated selfishness has to be dissolved through suffering. These people need a sense of inner purpose and make good behind the scenes organisers. They often suffer from an inexplicable fear of authority or concern about the future, and should find a way to develop self confidence.
Capable of bringing stability into other people’s lives, by helping and organising those less fortunate than yourself.
Don’t like to acknowledge figures of authority (including parental)

Saturn can indicate deep seated loneliness, fear or guilt, despair or negativity which may be difficult to confront. But it also shows the ability to apply yourself with determination and/or ¬concen¬tration to some SOLITARY TASK perhaps to your work, which helps you to bring order to the internal chaos.

the often hidden weakness that having saturn here can suggest with Saturn or Capricorn here, you hesitate to openly express and come to terms with your negative feelings, particularly fear, guilt, loneliness, and mistrust. Because you haven't dealt with the fear and self doubt, which inhibit you, you may deny your desire for professional accomplishment. This Saturnian influence can manifest as psychological rigidity and withholding, due to inability to let go of past patterns. You above all, need to come to terms with your repression.

Saturn's strength and positive side here provides inner strength and self discipline, a capacity to cope with loneliness and handle responsibility, and a ¬willingness to work on your own with determination and ¬perseverance.

This house is where you learn to 'become whole' you could reject or deny someone you love.

for further clues as to how the 12th operates. look to where the ruler is and how it's aspected...
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houserulerships.htm

Basic astrology forum discussing Saturn in houses http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum12/private-jjLYZw161/HTML/000660.html

Basic astrology forum discussing Neptune in houses http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum12/private-jjLYZw161/HTML/000661.html

Basic astrology forum discussing Uranus in houses http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum12/private-jjLYZw161/HTML/000662.html

Basic astrology forum discussing Pluto in houses http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum12/private-jjLYZw161/HTML/000663.html

posted February 10, 2012 11:17 AM              

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Originally posted by Moonfish:
I have Pisces moon in the 12H
What would I need help to overcome :/ if you see a person with a lot of signs in the 12H do you automatically feel pity for them? lol

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having moon in 12th is JUST one part of the story... we need to SEE the chart or how it is aspected.

Usually, generically moon here can suggest a resentment towards mother, for whatever reason, could be smother loved or emotionally neglected...

If there is a hard aspect to chiron, there is major problems with mother.

posted February 10, 2012 11:20 AM              

regarding the synastry bi wheel you posted.
North Node conj moon is excellent and shows a karmic bond.

What orbs did you use please?

Basic astrology forum, How to approach Synastry http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum12/private-jjLYZw161/HTML/000667.html
when you get this chart, please also post the *pdf file*, above left should be *view additional tables (PDF)* This will bring up the aspect grid –at a glance planet to planet. Post the whole PDF file, what we are looking for if scroll down to ‘partner comparison’ aspect grid

Please remember to reduce the orb ratio down to 40% as the max orb between planets is 3'

for further research use LL search engine..
Search Engine for LL http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=008618649001241799762:gzvuymx7vjg

posted February 10, 2012 11:23 AM            

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Originally posted by SaggiMC:
having moon in 12th is JUST one part of the story... we need to SEE the chart or how it is aspected.

Usually, generically moon here can suggest a resentment towards mother, for whatever reason, could be smother loved or emotionally neglected...

If there is a hard aspect to chiron, there is major problems with mother.

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My mother and I are very close. I have my moon inconjunct chiron & square ceres in my chart

posted February 10, 2012 12:38 PM            

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Originally posted by Tofu addict:
Yes it is from the viewpoint from 12th house planet people. Having a stellium there myself.

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Gotcha. That was beautifully written btw. I posted a similar thread abt people laying around in my 12th house (lol). Oftentimes, they can have natal 12th house placements (as I have none at all, but Virgo rules my 12th). Pluto and Mars 12th house placements have been really common amongst people I've developed some sort of relationship with over the past few years. Most intense was a Venus 12th house--would take a bullet for her. 2nd most intense, somone with a natal saturn and pluto in the 12th whose moon and mercury both in my 12th--beyond words. We almost can't tell where our thoughts/feelings begin and end.

posted February 10, 2012 01:32 PM            

His pluto falls into my 12th house which is conjunct my sun.

His sun conj saturn, mercury all fall into my 1st house. His venus in my 2nd conjunct my saturn and uranus.

posted February 10, 2012 01:57 PM            

"The sextile between the second and twelfth houses is interesting. Whereas the 2nd and seventh houses are both Venus houses, the 12th house is Neptune’s realm. Neptune is the higher octave of Venus. (Sextiles offer opportunities: what I ‘have’ in the 2nd house I offer in the 12th). Neptune attracts in a Venusian sense, but it attracts via a finer vibration. Unlike Venus, Neptune has no ‘come hither’ look. It’s motives are not that clear and obvious, and its method is mysterious. It has less to do with material reality (2nd) and basic fulfillment of emptiness (7th) than it has with vibration. It brings together that which is vibrating at the same frequency. The 12th house attracts through resonance. It will draw what the soul requires.

People who make 12th house contacts with us can seem to have godlike powers. Often they embody the very thing that we need to find to heal ourselves, that thing that we just can’t grasp. If the relationship does develop, the experience can feel other-worldly, fated, destined. We are drawn to it, and it to us, by often mysterious and indirect means (Neptune). This person seems to clarify some previously unknown and unclear part of our psyches. They can seem crucial to our psychological survival. They may make us feel complete (for a time).

...Our self-undoing is not so much about the hand of fate as it is about our habitual selective blindness. Relationships that touch our 12th house will often cause the scales to fall from our eyes...

...Mysterious, strange, unlikely, other-worldly, ‘that couldn’t happen in a million years’ type relationships are also found with heavy 12th house contacts. Some 12th house relationships would take three Shakespeares a year and a half to come up with a plot dense enough to match the way these two unlikely people are brought together, with all the missed connections and strange synchronicities and bizarre coincidences along the way. It seems as though only a higher power could have arranged the coming together. This is the thrust towards wholeness of the 12th, the compelling impulse of resonance, of Venus/Neptune’s power of completion...

...Alas, heavy 12th house contacts are not often lasting ones, unless there is other glue in the chart to hold it together. Remember, it’s the house of sacrifice. Once we have learned our lessons, we are meant to let go..."

posted February 10, 2012 06:59 PM            

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Originally posted by Starry~*:
My venus, mercury and pluto falls into my SO's 12th house. Along with my planets, he has his sun conjunct saturn/ mercury/ pluto in his 12th house. So..it's pretty packed in there!! And these are all scorpio placements..all the more intense!

His pluto falls into my 12th house which is conjunct my sun.

His sun conj saturn, mercury all fall into my 1st house. His venus in my 2nd conjunct my saturn and uranus.

I feel that I'm the only one feeling these crazy strong changes and feelings..but I don't know about him. Well I do see smidgens where I do work him up sometimes..but who knows, I could be wrong.

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From my experience, I have been heavily impacted. I mean...I don't know, I experience the Mercury falling in my 12th very strangely. I feel like I put into words what they feel and think. And I also 'feel' what they think, very deeply. We don't have to be around each other, but I can tell when they think about me and vise versa. We show up in the same places...etc.

That article you posted is AMAZING. I mean, it sums up 12th house so perfectly, especially in synsatry. Though, I feel like the 'completion through other' can go either way. I also just realized the person I knew who had venus in the 12th, the venus fell in my 12th house--I'd never known this before! Have no clue how I missed that one!