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Author Topic:   I am dying, so I may come back anew - Chiron? Scorpio?
RedScorp
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posted February 21, 2012 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It has been a loooong weekend with a sh!t load of stuff happening in a couple of days. This "stuff" was condensed, almost...as I felt such events would have been more bearable if they happened over the course of a week or longer.

Long story short: I devoted myself to the causes of another. She and he are back together, through the fire and flames, and I was there the whole time to keep him in line, to stop him when he was depressed and confused me for her. I kicked him around to show him what she meant to him. But now, I regret getting so attached to him...

Now, I wallow in self-pity if but for a brief period. I want to indulge in sadness just for a bit before picking myself up, dusting myself off, and starting back with my life. I constantly feel as though I kill myself - through trials, tribulations, people - only to resurrect as someone new. I know I'm not the only one who does this...right?

But I ask...What is drawn upon to go through hell so as to be revitalized? Perhaps it is all the Scorpio I have, with the themes of death and transformation... I have Chiron in the First House, in Virgo. I certainly am aware of its affects: at the service of others, I detest the care offered by those very people. I am not important, I can manage myself; if I do need assistance, I do know who I could go to...I merely resist asking.

If this is a little depressing/dramatic, my apologies. The bolded is what is important.

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Desiring Shadows
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posted February 21, 2012 11:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't understand your question.... but your not theonly one who does this. I enter partnerships of all sorts where my meaning is succumbed as impotent, yet I dwindle on to experience life at higher stakes and better understanding. I met this boy with the same chart as me, except a moon 1 sign away, and he rocked my world. We were all the same but all the diffeent and I couldn't pin point how or what it was.. until I quietly observed him enough to drive him to a point of insanity. Sometimes I wish I didn't merge. It destroyed my innocence.


Long story short: the vocation you are a5t now is great. Do not force a merging which does want to be. Let it unfold on its own because if it was meant to happen, it will. You should control your destiny in other ways... like finding joy in the mundane simplicities of casual life. It may heal you.

Scorpio

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RedScorp
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posted February 21, 2012 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Desiring Shadows:
I don't understand your question...

I wanna know what spurs someone to utterly transform themselves or what gives a propensity to change and transformation. Does that clear things up a li'l?

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sand
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posted February 21, 2012 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...

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RedScorp
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posted February 21, 2012 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sand:
uranus?

Hmm...Uranus is transitting my Seventh House and my relationships, especially romantic ones, are on the change...and they're changing me too. That struck me, how interesting!

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SaggiMC
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posted February 21, 2012 05:06 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Red scorp

I have chiron in first house and see it as the mark of a healer. perhaps better at healing others like what you have altruistically have done. But not great at healing self perhaps...

From the book of Barbara Hand clowe on chiron....

quote:

Chiron in Aries and the First House

With Chiron here we find a wound in this area, often a deeply buried one. Often you may feel motivated to champion a cause on someone else's behalf, like a knight in shining armour, but with no will of your own. Grandiose displays of bravado and fighting spirit compensate for the pain, self doubt and fear underneath, which could drive you into a repeating cycle of futile and self destructive endeavours.

A tendency to take action ¬prematurely, translating emotional tension immediately into action. Often becoming unable to ask for help and support in your conviction that you must "go it alone." One person with Chiron in the first house said, "Where there ought to be a sense of ME, there is an enormous hole and a pain beyond my ability to endure it."

With Chiron in Aries or the lst house, your spontaneous ¬expressions of passion, being or will may have been crushed in childhood, either subtly or overtly with stock phrases as; " I want never gets," or "Children should be seen and not heard." Repressive child rearing methods such as schedule feeding, LACK OF PHYSICAL HOLDING and mirroring and premature systematic ¬toilet training often accompany the early wounds of this ¬placement. The results can be a deep confusion and the belief that what we want indeed WHO WE ARE is not acceptable, and that we must not reach out to satisfy our desires. A paralysis of the "will" follows, and understandably, a deep, often misplaced rage lies underneath.

Later on in life, we may feel that we must conceal what we truly want, or it will be destroyed by outside forces. Hence, we find ourselves instead getting exactly what we do not want. Owning up to what we DO WANT might initially create panic because it touches our wounded area.

Sometimes the early environment of those with this placement is hostile and full of suppressed or overt aggression, which ¬compounds feelings of timidity and lack of self worth and ¬personal rights. Then survival becomes equated with learning how to please and placate others (7th house echo). Conversely we find individuals with this placement who struggle until their "will" is so inflated that they appear as virtual ¬personifications of will, drive, energy and enthusiasm. A rugged, pioneering quality sometimes characterise this Chiron placement.

If Chiron is conjunct the Ascendant, beginnings may be difficult. You either rush into starting something, or you hesitate even get ill rather than make decisions. Often, behind this you might have found that, the experience of physical birth was often particularly significant or traumatic. Chiron conjunct Ascendant in Aquarius always consulted an astrologer or medium before making decisions, as she was terrified of "getting it wrong." Chiron in Aquarius is quite capable of rejecting people who do not fit the bill, and this is reminiscent of Chiron's rejection by their mother.
Chiron in the 1st house is a very common placement for healers and therapists. Very early in life, even in the womb or during birth, a person can take on the role of the healer as regards his family (maybe being born, just the right sex helped; therefore healing the parents!) and friends, and this continues throughout life, perhaps even becoming a career.

Sometimes, people with Chiron here struggle hard to find ¬something they can DO which will bring them the sense of "being" they lack. They may set themselves well-nigh impossible tasks, loaded with all the intensity of a search for confirmation that they exist. Often, this is the futile struggle which has to be given up.

But this placement is also frequently found in the horoscopes of people who are in fact ORIGINATORS, UNIQUE ONE OFF INDIVIDUALS, perhaps precisely because the inner being has had such a struggle. Even lesser mortals with this placement have an urge to be the first, the best and the only!

The theme of physical disability or life changing initiatory illness is a frequent one with Chiron in the 1st house or Aries. Just as some with this placement will identify themselves as healers, others will identify themselves as victims, without realising that they are caught in an archetypal pattern which is blurring the truth of their feelings and their situation.

The positive attribute of this placement suggests; have the capacity to enable and empower others, (7th house polarity) being so aware of their own deep powerlessness in the face of the immensity of the universe.

Living close to the edges of¬ existence, they often give the impression of being rather wild and untamable; they are OFTEN LONERS, even if married or in a committed relationship. They may also personify qualities of others. Several times people with this placement who have spent long intense years searching for a missing and elusive sense of identity, only to discover that when they gave up the search and accepted their nothingness, an ¬enormous vitality and sense of being followed; the spark of being finally ignited !

With this Chiron placement, often comes a knack for timing actions intuitively to "grasp the moment." Yours may be a unique combination of compassion and appropriate action, an ability to be highly innovative and to take the initiative, especially where the welfare of others is at stake. You gain strength through conquest and fighting difficulties, but you must also learn the lesson of how to be a "noble rival" to those with whom you ¬compete. If you succeed in treading the narrow path of neither succumbing to passive aggression not obliquely action out de¬structiveness, you may come to feel the "Will of life" flowing through you.

Whether or not you work in the healing field, you probably have the capacity to act as a catalyst in situations, and to touch the inner being of others; although your wound is your doubt of your own existence, you are probably quite magnetic as a personality, so don't be surprised if others react strongly to you.


Does anything resonate?

------------------
I love the parable, “If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, BUT if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for life.”

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sand
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posted February 21, 2012 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...

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RedScorp
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posted February 21, 2012 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SaggiMC:
Perhaps better at healing others like what you have altruistically have done. But not great at healing self perhaps...

Omg yeah...that's what made me feel kinda sad: I ended up with nothing but a bit of a heartache. What I have altruistically done...he said he truly feels as though she is the love of his life. She said she can feel a happy ending. Before I really...intervened, they were growing distant. Siiiiiigh.

quote:

From the book of Barbara Hand clowe on chiron....
Does anything resonate?

What it said about wanting what can't be had, that part stuck out - and what was said about not asking for help or support. Sometimes I feel I just should not at all, because I feel it is my burden.

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SaggiMC
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posted February 21, 2012 06:40 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RedScorp:
What it said about wanting what can't be had, that part stuck out - and what was said about not asking for help or support. Sometimes I feel I just should not at all, because I feel it is my burden.

Whether or not you work in the healing field, you probably have the capacity to act as a catalyst in situations, and to touch the inner being of others; although your wound is your doubt of your own existence, you are probably quite magnetic as a personality, so don't be surprised if others react strongly to you.

I'm a shamballa MDH healer and teacher but haven't done much for a while. In fact I really could use some myself. I'm sure it will come back on my path again, with 'divine timing' Do you do anything like this or Reiki?

How is your chiron aspected?

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Desiring Shadows
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posted February 21, 2012 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SagittMC is chiron to the ascendant similar to chiron sun?

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sand
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posted February 21, 2012 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...

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sand
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posted February 21, 2012 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
dp

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RedScorp
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posted February 21, 2012 07:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SaggiMC:
How is your chiron aspected?

RUN DOWN OF REDSCORP'S CHIRON:

22° Virgo in the First House (not conjunct Asc).
Trine Neptune-Moon-Uranus in Capricorn/Fifth.
Sextile Jupiter in Scorpio/Third.
Semisquare Venus in Scorpio/Third.

Wider orbs include sextile Pluto near Jupiter at 5° and conjunct Virgo rising at 8°.

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Chironrising
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posted February 22, 2012 07:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chironrising     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RedScorp:
It has been a loooong weekend with a sh!t load of stuff happening in a couple of days. This "stuff" was condensed, almost...as I felt such events would have been more bearable if they happened over the course of a week or longer.

Long story short: I devoted myself to the causes of another. She and he are back together, through the fire and flames, and I was there the whole time to keep him in line, to stop him when he was depressed and confused me for her. I kicked him around to show him what she meant to him. But now, I regret getting so attached to him...

Now, I wallow in self-pity if but for a brief period. I want to indulge in sadness just for a bit before picking myself up, dusting myself off, and starting back with my life. I constantly feel as though I kill myself - through trials, tribulations, people - only to resurrect as someone new. I know I'm not the only one who does this...right?

But I ask...[b]What is drawn upon to go through hell so as to be revitalized? Perhaps it is all the Scorpio I have, with the themes of death and transformation... I have Chiron in the First House, in Virgo. I certainly am aware of its affects: at the service of others, I detest the care offered by those very people. I am not important, I can manage myself; if I do need assistance, I do know who I could go to...I merely resist asking.

If this is a little depressing/dramatic, my apologies. The bolded is what is important.[/B]


This is amazing writing RedScorp. Pluto tends to be compressed like that. It compresses, compresses, compresses and it finally implodes. A shaman-astrologer told me this. When it implodes...the white comes, from the darkness...a good download for you would be alchemy, the process of the blackening/the reddening/whitening is a powerful transformative cycle that never seizes...but it's would causes one to perpetually ascend or descend...just don't do drugs, and you're going to be great in the long run, very powerful....that writing is a testament.

It's like a spiral...the beginning is black, the middle is red, the end of the first turn is white. Now we're on the second echelon, or ring of the slinky..although the tilt up is so subtle it feels like we're always dying, when we view it from this angle we are actually growing...an organic slinky, kind of like a vine...

hope that helps.

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Chironrising
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posted February 22, 2012 07:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chironrising     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SaggiMC:
Red scorp

I have chiron in first house and see it as the mark of a healer. perhaps better at healing others like what you have altruistically have done. But not great at healing self perhaps...

From the book of Barbara Hand clowe on chiron....
Does anything resonate?



Wow this is dead on for me...I heal my brother and sister...chiron first house gemini...but when I've wounded them in teh past it was due to impulsive self imagined offending, communication break down, and nebulous ambiguous...it's on the dark side in the 12th. WE even had a talk about this on the phone yesterday...

Astrology is so real...unfrekbelievable.

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mir
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posted February 22, 2012 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Recognizable to me in word and feeling! (with the current subtle difference that I wouldn't exactly say 'I do.. ' but more 'It just happens..' )
I was thinking of scorp(-planets) in the 3rd .. (which I also have - and so Virgo-asc. at 4*) .. that deep thinking with the ability to communicate it.. funnily enough you confirmed that!
I'm always thinking of John Cleese when Scorp-planets in the 3rd are highlighted (he has that) and well, what a big creative example of where such placements can lead to! Hmm okay.. I think we may not forget his driven Aqua-Mars as the big ironic rebel here but well that's what I also have and it doesn't make your 'being' less recognizable.

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SaggiMC
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posted February 22, 2012 04:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Desiring Shadows:
SagittMC is chiron to the ascendant similar to chiron sun?

So which do you have? conj Asc or conj Sun?

Chiron is first house is what I posted not necessarily conj Asc.

Conj Asc could be physically wounded or poss some form of abuse even....

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RedScorp
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posted February 22, 2012 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chironrising:
This is amazing writing RedScorp. Pluto tends to be compressed like that. It compresses, compresses, compresses and it finally implodes.

Hmm...his Sun squares my Pluto at a one degree orb. I think I understand what you wrote...the echelon, the organic slinky...it makes sense; I like it.

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RedScorp
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posted February 22, 2012 06:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mir:
Recognizable to me in word and feeling! (with the current subtle difference that I wouldn't exactly say 'I do.. ' but more 'It just happens..' )
I was thinking of scorp(-planets) in the 3rd .. (which I also have - and so Virgo-asc. at 4*) .. that deep thinking with the ability to communicate it.. funnily enough you confirmed that!

Ahahhaa! I quite enjoy it...I feel so relieved when I communicate my feelings and my thoughts. What planets do you have there?

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mir
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posted February 23, 2012 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Scorp-Moon in the 3rd and Scorp-Jupiter right on the cusp of the 4th (Scorp-IC at 25*).

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acousticbob
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posted February 27, 2012 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for acousticbob     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RedScorp:
It has been a loooong weekend with a sh!t load of stuff happening in a couple of days. This "stuff" was condensed, almost...as I felt such events would have been more bearable if they happened over the course of a week or longer.

Long story short: I devoted myself to the causes of another. She and he are back together, through the fire and flames, and I was there the whole time to keep him in line, to stop him when he was depressed and confused me for her. I kicked him around to show him what she meant to him. But now, I regret getting so attached to him...

Now, I wallow in self-pity if but for a brief period. I want to indulge in sadness just for a bit before picking myself up, dusting myself off, and starting back with my life. I constantly feel as though I kill myself - through trials, tribulations, people - only to resurrect as someone new. I know I'm not the only one who does this...right?

But I ask...[b]What is drawn upon to go through hell so as to be revitalized? Perhaps it is all the Scorpio I have, with the themes of death and transformation... I have Chiron in the First House, in Virgo. I certainly am aware of its affects: at the service of others, I detest the care offered by those very people. I am not important, I can manage myself; if I do need assistance, I do know who I could go to...I merely resist asking.

If this is a little depressing/dramatic, my apologies. The bolded is what is important.[/B]


Sounds rough
Taking time to digest scorpio emotions is important. Because of the intensity of the emotion I think. I think virgo asc can also add to the need/desire for analysis/understanding.

To answer your question: What is drawn upon to go through hell so as to be revitalized?
I think it is the north node, from personal experience.
find solace/comfort in the traits of the north node and eventually you will feel revitalised. What is your north node?

Disclaimer: I'm no expert! lol

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acousticbob
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posted February 27, 2012 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for acousticbob     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Desiring Shadows:
Sometimes I wish I didn't merge. It destroyed my innocence.


Great line, would be great for a song.

My venus scorpio can feel that sentiment!

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RedScorp
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posted February 28, 2012 12:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by acousticbob:
I think it is the north node, from personal experience.
find solace/comfort in the traits of the north node and eventually you will feel revitalised. What is your north node?

Disclaimer: I'm no expert! lol


Scorpio, exact conjunct Sun, ahahaha. Scorpio Venus too, and Jupiter...and Pluto...

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FireWire
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posted February 28, 2012 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FireWire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RedScorp:
Hmm...Uranus is transitting my Seventh House and my relationships, especially romantic ones, are on the change...and they're changing me too. That struck me, how interesting!

Can you share a bit more about uranus transiting your 7th...is this connected to it? Doesn't sound fun!

Sorry to hear you've experienced this though. I'm like this in relationships and in life, a lot. I feel like with dynamics of this sort, the tables always turn (and perhaps turn back, again). You'd be best to focus on your own healing and growth so that when they do turn, you'll be able to stand on your own two legs and be firm within yourself. But processing the emotions and dissecting them seem to be a part of your healing and recovery, so perhaps that is good.

Me personally, I think I am 'finally' learning the lessons of my SN in Scorpio, actually (though, I always get pinned as a big ole Scorpio all the time, ). I'm sure I have a big 'test' coming soon, but
whatever.

I hate hearing stories like this, because I've experienced it before. Do what you can to continue being a great friend and the great, supportive person I feel you are. But be sure to protect yourself and not be used up in the process.

Uranus is approaching my 7th, and will actually be there for a really, really long time, I mean...it will be there for years. So that is partially why I was asking about the Uranus transit and the extent to which you think it had an impact in this scenario, because this sounds pretty tough.

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RedScorp
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posted February 28, 2012 01:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedScorp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireWire:
Can you share a bit more about uranus transiting your 7th...is this connected to it? Doesn't sound fun!

For better or for worse, the bright light of Uranus will change things. After sweeping out the old, the new takes its place. I definitely think Uranus is connected to this, as are other natal factors too (such as NN in Scorpio, as someone mentioned, and my own Chiron in Virgo). Eventually things will look up.

quote:

You'd be best to focus on your own healing and growth so that when they do turn, you'll be able to stand on your own two legs and be firm within yourself.

Next time I'll be braver, I'll be my own saviour, and stand on my own two feet.

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