posted November 14, 2012 09:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
A little off topic, but is Pisces really so peaceful and wishy-washy? I see Pisces as flat-out SMART.

They are intuitive and make good fighters because they *read your mind* and know what's coming next.

Really, my Pisces sun-Mercury best friend is by far the toughest woman I know.

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I like you Faith

posted August 21, 2021 06:04 PM            

According to the traditional western astrology strength count, Domicile is (+5), Exaltation is (+4) Triplicity is (+3) - William Lilly giving Mars as the lord of the watery triplicity by night and day - Terms is (+2) and Decan is (+1), being these the Essential Dignities. Peregrine is (-3), Fall is (-4) and Exile is (-5), being these the Essential Debilities.

Mars is its triplicity in Pisces, Cancer and Scorpio, in its Fall in Cancer (making Mars a planet that even in Fall, it is not wholly in a bad situation) in Exaltation in Capricorn and in Domicile in Aries and Scorpio (being this the best placement for Mars). By all traditional accounts, Mars is in a very good shape in Pisces.

The Mars in nameyouthesign "passive-agressive stuff" is a our projection on the nature of Mars nature. Passiveness-agressiveness is a tactic that people use when they have not the strength to change things with their own forces. I have seen many assertive individuals crushed politically and socially, in spite of my deep dislike for this eventuality, for being open and forward with their views.

A strong Mars, as William Lilly would say is:

In feats of War and Courage invincible, scorning any should exceed him, subject to no reason, Bold, Confident, Immovable, Contentious, challenging all Honour to themselves, Valiant, lovers of War and all things partaining thereunto, hazarding himself to all Perils, willingly will obey nobody; nor submit to any, a large Reporter of his own Acts, one that fight all things in comparison to Victory, and yet of prudent behaviour in his own affairs.

A weak Mars (a Mars in which pile Essential Debilities and/or poor house placement) is described as: Prattler without modesty or honesty, a lover of Slaughter and Quarrels, Murder, Thievery, a promoter of Sedition, Frays and Commotions; a Highway-Thief, as wavering as the Wind, a Traitor, of turbulent Spirit, Perjured, Obscene, Rash, Inhumane, neither fearing God or caring for man, Unthankful, Treacherous, Oppressors, Ravenous, Cheaters, Furious, Violent.

William Lilly, Christian Astrology, 1647

By the way, Adolf Hitler had Mars in Taurus (in its Exile), and in Cardinal House (the 7th) thus ready to take action and be manifest. We all know the rest. Whom do you prefer, a Pisces Mars or a Taurus Mars?

Pisces is not weak. It is smart, Domicile of Jupiter (and Neptune) and Exaltation of Venus. But neither Jupiter (nor Neptune) are weak planets, nor the signs they rule. Many politicians (4 US Presidents, 3 Spain presidents in its Democracy), the Emperor Charles the I of Spain and V of Germany (Holy Roman Emperor) and scores of Forbes individuals are Pisces, among many other successful individuals. As a member of this "tribe" I am increasingly upset about the picture of Pisces as nothing short of loosers.

Have a nice day, my friends. I had to say this.

posted August 22, 2021 12:49 PM            

Your very first post rocks!

posted August 22, 2021 08:06 PM            

Concerning your question, the theory of the Triplicities (or Trigons) is first found in the first book of Dorotheus of Sidon (I Century AD) in his book Pentateuch -the same name as the first five books of the Holy Bible, and for identical reason, it contains five books - and Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos (in Greek known as Apotelesmatiká) a text of the II Century AD.

Dorotheus' Pentateuch is largely the great treatise on Triplicities/Trigons. Its use is so pervasive in this work that very little can be said more. You will find in in each of its pages. Deborah Houlding made an awesome work making this text accesible at large.

Ptolemy names Triplicities as Trigons, and he names the planets which have rulerships over each of the Trigons. They mostly coincide with Dorotheus', which are the following:

1. Fire triplicity/Trigon: Sun by day and Jupiter by night. Associate: Saturn.
   
2. Earth triplicity/trigon: Venus by day and Moon by night. Associate: Mars.
   
3. Air Triplicity: Saturn by day, Mercury by night. Associate: Jupiter
   
4. Water triplicity: Venus by day, Mars by night. Associate: Moon.
   

Dorotheus is explicit in naming the associate triplicity rulers. Ptolemy only names the associate rulers for the Air and Water triplicities, although is rather oblique in what is related to Jupiter's Air triplicity associate rulership. Later in the second book of Ptolemy Tetrabiblos, when discussing the relationship between the signs and the countries, the author mostly puts the Water triplicity under Mars, giving Venus a somewhat secondary role.

Following this last author, and going a step further, William Lilly, in his Christian Astrology, a text I already mentioned on my previous post, deems associate rulership unnecesary and he deems too that Mars rules the Water triplicity by day and night, unlike Ptolemy and Dorotheus.

I must say that I usually follow Lilly in my practice - electional, natal or otherwise - but in honour of my conscience, I have to add that Al-Biruni's The book of Instruction in the Elements of the Art of Astrology a text written in 1029 AD is unambiguous in his endorsement of the associate rulerships. To a certain degree, I can see the point behind this: Most people are not very, very bad, and both excellent and really perverse individuals constitute a rarity. For instance, not all Scorpio Moon are drunkards, vagabonds or lazy people as one could extract for the meaning of a Moon in its fall in Scorpio. The associate rulerships could make the Moon to be in pretty much the same situation as a Mars in Cancer, if not identical. A really debilitated Moon would require hard aspects and/or poor house placement, which translates in an inner predisposition coupled with a toxic environment.

I hope/wish that this post serves to shed some light into the topic.

posted August 23, 2021 12:25 PM            

However, an individual's fighting response can't be reduced to their Mars position/strength alone. And without knowing his exact birth chart layout, we don't know the full strength of his Mars.

When people are this dominant, very often it is because of strong Solar and/or Pluto aspects (not necessarily overall strength of Pluto).

But let's look at Silva's Mars. It is not only bi-quintile Pluto, but contra-parallel it. And he's got Sun, Mercury, Jupiter in Aries, the primary 'fighting' sign.

His noon chart:

We don't know for sure if he had Moon square Mars, but a larger portion of the day had that aspect. If he were born in the wee hours the Moon would've been 10° short of exact square to Mars. But around 4 AM it moved into valid aspect.

posted August 23, 2021 06:43 PM            

In my understanding, we are discussing the effect of Mars in Pisces and what I show, based on traditional astrology, is that Mars in Pisces is not in a bad position and that this does not prevent a fighter from reaching excellence.

I do not berate any Fire sign, nor disregard biquintiles and contraparalells, but again, for me it is no surprise that Anderson Silva has a Mars in Pisces, something that seems to puzzle some.

posted August 23, 2021 06:52 PM            

Again, yours sincerely,

posted August 23, 2021 08:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MarsVenus:
Dear @Kannon McAfee. I have to differ. Planets, signs and houses make a whole, a totality. There is no alternate framework. The signs and houses show us the condition and placement of the planets, which in turn have an essential meaning by their nature and an accidental one by the houses they rule.

In my understanding, we are discussing the effect of Mars in Pisces and what I show, based on traditional astrology, is that Mars in Pisces is not in a bad position and that this does not prevent a fighter from reaching excellence.

I do not berate any Fire sign, nor disregard biquintiles and contraparalells, but again, for me it is no surprise that Anderson Silva has a Mars in Pisces, something that seems to puzzle some.

Yours sincerely,

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posted August 23, 2021 09:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Planets and their aspects are more important than signs. Sign-based astrological interpretations generally over-state or over-specify the sign's influence...

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Completely and strongly agree with the above.

A really good and simple example would be the following. We have 12 different people with 12 different Mars Sign positions.

Person 1. has Aries Mars closely conjunct Aries Asc

Person 2. has Taurus Mars closely conjunct Taurus Asc

Person 3. has Gemini Mars closely conjunct Gemini Asc

Person 4. has Cancer Mars closely conjunct Cancer Asc

Person 5. has Leo Mars closely conjunct Leo Asc

Person 6. has Virgo Mars closely conjunct Virgo Asc

Person 7. has Libra Mars closely conjunct Libra Asc

Person 8. has Scorpio Mars closely conjunct Scorpio Asc

Person 9. has Sagittarius Mars closely conjunct Sagittarius Asc

Person 10. has Capricorn Mars closely conjunct Capricorn Asc

Person 11 has Aquarius Mars closely conjunct Aquarius Asc

Person 12 has Pisces Mars closely conjunct Pisces Asc

ALL 12 of these people are going to be highly/strongly attuned to Mars in a very powerful, immediate, direct way. In the Edgar Cayce work, it would likely be said that in most of these cases, that the individuals entered in direct from the nonphysical dimension that Mars symbolizes*.

*Mars correlates to one of the lower, hellish like afterlife realms/dimensions where commonly former earth/human warriors, narcissists, egotistical leaders and military people, some suicides, very angry ones, etc often are attracted to post death of their body. Attracted based on the law built into all creation i.e. Like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like--vibrational/consciousness resonation.

Anyways, these 12 people are all likely have rather active gonads and higher than average testosterone levels in the body, and in the aura red is likely to be a strong color. The temper, self centeredness, and sex drives are likely to be high. Reddish coloring of some kind is potentially more likely in the looks (especially in the Fire sign cases, and in cases of Caucasians and some Native American descent--obviously less likely in Asian, Sub Saharan African, and Aboriginal).

However, they are likely to express that powerful Martian energy in slightly different ways. The signs here act as like a soft, diffuse background color or lens filter, while the super highlighted Planet acts like a concentrated, very bright, and focused spot light or laser that is shining through the lightly colored lens or into the softly colored backdrop.

As far as physical vitality, out of that group, those with Mars in the Fire Signs will have the most vitality and energy at their disposal and will be tend to be the most athletic and muscular, though all 12 people are likely to be athletic and muscular to some extent.

Then, those with Mars/Asc in Leo, Scorpio, Taurus, and Aquarius will tend to have the most "power lifter" or "body builder" type builds i.e. even thicker and stronger than the rest and more raw power (especially Leo and Scorpio).

The Mars in Capricorn will be kind of in between the Fire and Fixed Signs--likely to be more wiry and thin, but with amazing endurance, powerful will power, and disciplined, honed skill that can make up for not being as overtly powerful, vital, and/or muscular as the Fire and Fixed Signs. This is part of the reason why Muhammad Ali, who had Leo Rising with ruler Sun in Capricorn was such a force to be reckoned with and sometimes won over more physically powerful opponents.

Besides all the other things that Kannon mentioned, and which I didn't quote, we also have to consider that this is a Mars that is closely cusping the Fixed Sign of Aquarius. This is not a "pure" Pisces Mars by any extent. Aquarius blending in indicates greater vitality and will power. It's a Yang/masculine Fixed Sign.

Then we have to consider that Pisces is still very much co-ruled by vital, higher energy, athletic, etc Jupiter. Pisces is not equivalent to the ultra passive and soft, and fairly Yin polarized Neptune.

Jupiter energy has definite RED in it, which can be seen most in it's Sagittarius connection but also to some extent in Pisces which is violet i.e. a balanced blend of red and blue.

Ever meet people with Jupiter closely conjunct their Asc? They tend to be bigger and stronger than the average person. They often have higher levels of human growth hormone going on. Testosterone and other androgen hormones (Mars and/or Pluto) are not the only strength and body building hormones, HGH (Jupiter and/or Sun) is also very much in the category, though with different effects and results (more bone, ligament, etc strengthening than just muscle strengthening, obviously you want both which is why a lot of body builders and power lifters often juice with some kind of combo of these different classes of hormones).

Another thing to consider about Pisces, and Mars in same, is that Pisces is a very intuitive indication. If you're good at reading people and their energy as a fighter, that can help a lot. You can anticipate moves and strategies ahead of time. You can tell when something really hurts them, or when tehy are truly getting tired/worn out, etc, etc You can also get into their psyche better.

Btw, when you mix really strong Mars, and strong Pisces energy together at the same time, you get something that is far closer to Scorpio in attunement and vibe. For example, my spouse has Mercury conjunct Mars in Pisces technically still in the first house (she has a ridiculously wide 1st with Cap on the Asc).

She does not present as a Pisces Mercury so much in communication. Far more similar to Scorpio where she has a definite biting, sarcastic, mildly grudge holding, and/or at times domineering side. But, she does have the intuitiveness of Pisces, but brought to a lower level and which comes out more like Scorpio.

posted August 24, 2021 03:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Mars aspecting the nodes and pluto is a strong mars and you add the intuition of pisces with the broad mindedness and attention to detail of the nodes in gemini and saggy and you get a very strategic fighter. He also has 3 placements in Aries so attributing his success to mars in pisces only is very deceptive.

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No, @hypatia238. I am not attributing his success to Mars in Pisces. What I am saying is that, by its placement on sign, it will not hinder his success either.

posted August 24, 2021 04:20 AM            

Believe me, I know what the Mars energy looks like in each sign...

I adhere to traditional astro, my friends, and, again, this is what I say. Mars, by sign, will not hinder his success, it will definitely help, but of course more factors are to be added to the mix. While I was at it, I have noticed that the Moon is in Taurus, sign of its exaltation.

BTW, I have Jupiter in ASC and I weight over 200 lbs. Someone already mentioned we are massive individuals... And, yes, I subscribe to what has been said about Jupiter and Neptune's energies.

I will try to get Anderson Silva's hour of birth. I will keep you informed if I succeed with it. His complete birth chart will be instructive for all of us.

posted August 24, 2021 10:05 AM            

Rico Verhoeven: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rico_Verhoeven
Mars conjunct Moon in Gemini

Peter Aerts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Aerts
Mars conjunct Pluto on Libra/Virgo cusp

Ernesto Hoost:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Hoost
Unaspected Mars in Libra

Semmy Schilt:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semmy_Schilt
Mars in Taurus and part of a t-square with Jupiter apex and Mars opposite Sun and Uranus.

posted August 24, 2021 01:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MarsVenus:
... What I am saying is that, by its placement on sign, it will not hinder his success either.

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I agree.

Planets are still more important than signs because they are the very energies of movement (consciousness enaction) that are the doing, the core of astrology. Aspects between planets show relationships of these energies. Signs are general modes of expression.

People have made good points here about Pisces that have often been overlooked. In a person of training or development it can allow a peak of fluidity and intuition more advanced than the other two water sign modes. Cancer is a mode too easily subject to plain mood. Scorpio's fixity can easily create stagnation or blinding obsession. Pisces, while prone to ambivalence and indecisiveness (perceptive non-commitment), at its best it is capable of intuition that transcends mere mood or intensity of any feelings.

posted August 24, 2021 02:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MarsVenus:
No, @hypatia238. I am not attributing his success to Mars in Pisces. What I am saying is that, by its placement on sign, it will not hinder his success either.

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I agree with you there definitely.

I feel similar to Kannon that this fighter is using the strengths of PISCES to make him a better fighter and is nice this thread has highlighted this but if he did not have mars square the nodes, or mars aspecting pluto he would have chosen a different career path.