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Author
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Topic: Adoption
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Hera
Knowflake Posts: 8636
From: Olympus
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 01, 2012 02:04 AM
  
Hello all!I was wondering what in a person's chart might indicate the willingness to adopt. If you know people who have adopted, what placements/aspects in their charts do you think are responsible? I would also be interested in transits/progressions/SA for the time of adoption. Thank you! ------------------
Whatever you give to a woman, she will make it GREATER. Give her SPERM, she will give you a BABY. Give her a HOUSE, she will give you a HOME. Give her GROCERIES, she will give you a MEAL. Give her LOVE, and she will give you her HEART! She multiplies and enlarges what she is given. So, if you give her CR@P, be prepared to receive a ton of SH!T! IP: Logged |
RegardesPlatero
Knowflake Posts: 4367
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted May 01, 2012 04:51 AM
I don't have any birthtimes, but out of the three people whom I've known who have adopted (two I know casually, one a little better), two have been Cancer and one was a Scorpio. I also know another Cancer who doesn't really want kids that much, but if she had them, would prefer adoption. Interestingly enough, both Cancers adopted two children and then had a third that was biologically theirs. The Scorpio adopted two children but, as far as I know, did not have a third. I don't have the adoption dates, either, so I don't have progressions. You could use famous people, too. Josephine Baker would be one great example. Angelina Jolie would be another. (Both are Geminis, come to think of it). Mariska Hargitay and Mia Farrow, both Aquarius, are two others. Madonna (Leo) also adopted. IP: Logged |
Rosalind
Knowflake Posts: 4239
From:
Registered: Mar 2011
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posted May 01, 2012 06:06 AM
The house of adopted children is the 11th house. Check it, check the ruler of that house and the planets that aspects it. IP: Logged |
RegardesPlatero
Knowflake Posts: 4367
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted May 01, 2012 06:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rosalind:
The house of adopted children is the 11th house. Check it, check the ruler of that house and the planets that aspects it.
*to be clear, my tone here is genuinely inquisitive* Why would adopted children have a different house than biological children? Kids are kids. Why wouldn't they just be under the 5th? Also, why the 11th? To my understanding, the 11th is really about friendships and things like that. Again, not trying to be rude, just trying to understand (a) why they aren't treated like biological kids, as I don't feel that they should be treated differently and (b) why this particular house, especially since I have never heard of that association before. Genuinely curious. IP: Logged |
Lonake
Knowflake Posts: 9947
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 01, 2012 07:01 AM
Adopted children are ruled by the 5th
Step children are ruled by the 11th
(7th is the partner's 1st, 8, 9, 10, 11th is your partner's 5th)
The only time your child is ruled by your 11th is if it is your 4th kid,
and even then, 11th would still be read in conj with the 5th.
The 5th rules your children in general & more specifically the 1st,
7th for more info on 2nd, 9th for more info on 3rd, etc.
For the siblings the houses are skipped, since the 1st brother/sister is ruled by the 3rd,
For example your 5th is your 1st child
7th is the 3rd house to the 5th, so that stands for the 1st child's 1st sibling
9th is the 3rd house to the 7th, another sibling,
11th is the 3rd house to the 9th, another, etc.
In your own natal,
3rd rules brothers sisters in general, but primarily the 1st,
5th is the 2nd
7th is the 3rd, etc.
and they're counted as they're born after you.
So if you want to look at those born before, just look at your 3rd.IP: Logged |
Hera
Knowflake Posts: 8636
From: Olympus
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 01, 2012 07:08 AM
*scratches head* I used to think adopted kidz are 11th house too - other people's children. Step children are sometimes adopted too by their step parents. I have Moon and Neptune in my 11th and always wanted to adopt.  But my NN is in the 5th. Thank you for the celeb suggestion, RP, I am going to check it out!  IP: Logged |
Lonake
Knowflake Posts: 9947
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 01, 2012 07:17 AM
I personally would still use the 11th for any child that was related to the partner and another person, before being related to you. But all children *in general* are ruled by the 5th. They start being attributed to different places only when you bring in the theory of derivative houses.IP: Logged |
RegardesPlatero
Knowflake Posts: 4367
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted May 01, 2012 07:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Lonake:
Adopted children are ruled by the 5th
Step children are ruled by the 11th
(7th is the partner's 1st, 8, 9, 10, 11th is your partner's 5th)
The only time your child is ruled by your 11th is if it is your 4th kid,
and even then, 11th would still be read in conj with the 5th.
The 5th rules your children in general & more specifically the 1st,
7th for more info on 2nd, 9th for more info on 3rd, etc.
For the siblings the houses are skipped, since the 1st brother/sister is ruled by the 3rd,
For example your 5th is your 1st child
7th is the 3rd house to the 5th, so that stands for the 1st child's 1st sibling
9th is the 3rd house to the 7th, another sibling,
11th is the 3rd house to the 9th, another, etc.
In your own natal,
3rd rules brothers sisters in general, but primarily the 1st,
5th is the 2nd
7th is the 3rd, etc.
and they're counted as they're born after you.
So if you want to look at those born before, just look at your 3rd.
Just curious: why is this? Why not make it simple and just have kids be in the 5th? And why those houses? I just don't personally see the connection myself. Not saying that you're wrong or anything; just that I wouldn't have automatically made those associations and am curious to know what they are (genuinely and respectfully curious). IP: Logged |
earthypisces
Knowflake Posts: 544
From: Greenville, South Carolina
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted May 01, 2012 07:22 AM
My Virgo ex bf was adopted, his mother who adopted him is a Libra. Not sure what the father's sign is. They didn't adopt or have any children beyond him.IP: Logged |
Lonake
Knowflake Posts: 9947
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 01, 2012 07:25 AM
RP, All children in general are ruled by the 5th, and especially your 1st.
They start being attributed to different places based on derivative houses, which I explained in the post you quoted, but perhaps in too rushed of a manner.IP: Logged |
RegardesPlatero
Knowflake Posts: 4367
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted May 01, 2012 07:26 AM
I guess I'm still a bit confused by derivative houses, though, to be honest. The concept just doesn't really 'click' with me just yet. I looked at these few sites:
http://www.bristolschoolofastrology.com/derivative_houses.87.html#Derivative%20houses[/UR L] [URL=http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/01/01/a-who%E2%80%99s-who-of-your-horoscope-the-players-in-all-12-houses/]http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/01/01/a-who%E2%80%99s-who-of- your-horoscope-the-players-in-all-12-houses/ and just feel more confused especially by the first one IP: Logged |
Faith
Knowflake Posts: 21731
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted May 01, 2012 07:29 AM
I was planning to adopt, but I got pregnant a few times unexpectedly.Venus conjunct Neptune in the 5H. I have Gemini Mars in the 11th. Mercury ruling Gemini is in the sign of Aquarius, part of my grand trine in air with Pluto & Mars. How that translates to, "I wanted to adopt" is beyond me. IP: Logged |
RegardesPlatero
Knowflake Posts: 4367
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted May 01, 2012 07:31 AM
I have sun and Mercury both in the 11th, and I have no desire for adopted or biological children. NOT going to argue that; it's not open for discussion or debate. So, if 11th is adopted kids, well, that doesn't apply to me. I also have plenty of squares to sun and Mercury. I have an empty 5th, planet-wise, except a north node in Aries, but again, I don't want kids. I also have a cardinal t-square. IP: Logged |
Hera
Knowflake Posts: 8636
From: Olympus
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 01, 2012 07:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
I was planning to adopt, but I got pregnant a few times unexpectedly.Venus conjunct Neptune in the 5H. I have Gemini Mars in the 11th. Mercury ruling Gemini is in the sign of Aquarius, part of my grand trine in air with Pluto & Mars. How that translates to, "I wanted to adopt" is beyond me.
I think it might be the Neptune. Adopted children sometimes have Neptune in the 4th, so I guess Neptune in the 5th or 11th could be an indication.
Also, perhaps ruler of the 11th in the sign of Aquarius that breaks all barriers could have contributed too, I imagine.
IP: Logged |
Betty Boop
Knowflake Posts: 3377
From: Betty Boop Land
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 01, 2012 07:46 AM
I'm open to the idea of adoption, in the right circumstances... Not at this age. In a few years maybe.I have no idea what could indicate this though in my chart. IP: Logged |
Lonake
Knowflake Posts: 9947
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 01, 2012 07:49 AM
I talk fast anyway, so I guess I type that way too.
For example, say a step child,
A step child is a child that your partner had with someone previous to you.
Your partner is ruled by your 7th, in general.
So your 8th, is the personal resources (2nd) of your partner.
Your 9th relates to your partner's siblings, cos it's their 3rd
Your 10th is your partner's roots/home life, since it's their 4th
So your 11th is your partner's child, and primarily their 1st child, before meeting you, since that child is primarily the partner's responsibility and you were not in the picture at the time, you were not responsible for the child.
All the children that you are responsible for are generally ruled by your 5th, your 5th also rules your attitude to children in general, values that you want to instill in them, your basic relationship with them, but it changes with each one. Your 5th is your 1st child, but your 7th is your 1st child's 1st sibling (3rd), so that would be your 2nd child, etc.
Maybe that is more clear (?)
IP: Logged |
Hera
Knowflake Posts: 8636
From: Olympus
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 01, 2012 08:10 AM
Lonake, So would the child I intend to adopt be my 11th house, but after I adopt him/her becomes my 5th house? I understand the concept of derivative houses, but not sure where the line is drawn in this particular case. IP: Logged |
Hera
Knowflake Posts: 8636
From: Olympus
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 01, 2012 08:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Betty Boop:
I'm open to the idea of adoption, in the right circumstances... Not at this age. In a few years maybe.I have no idea what could indicate this though in my chart.
I'm not sure if I am ready, either. I am hunting a better job, perhaps after that I will get my file in order and submit my application. I always thought I would adopt, even if I'd have children of my own. I don't know why, but this is very strong with me. Still, I am single and though singles can adopt in my country, it feels like I am being unfair to the child depriving him/her of a father figure. But maybe that will come along too, eventually!  IP: Logged |
Lonake
Knowflake Posts: 9947
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 01, 2012 08:14 AM
Are you adopting from someone who was a stranger, or your partner's child?IP: Logged |
Hera
Knowflake Posts: 8636
From: Olympus
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 01, 2012 08:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Lonake:
Are you adopting from someone who was a stranger, or your partner's child?
I haven't filed for it, yet, just very seriously considering it. Stranger, though I wouldn't mind if a partner would come with a kid, I love them all! IP: Logged |
sand
Knowflake Posts: 10270
From:
Registered: May 2011
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posted May 01, 2012 08:24 AM
I am open to adoption if my patner has them. My last partner had kids. Ruler of 11th conj dsc maybe? IP: Logged |
Hera
Knowflake Posts: 8636
From: Olympus
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 01, 2012 08:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sand:
I am open to adoption if my patner has them. My last partner had kids. Ruler of 11th conj dsc maybe?
Maybe. Come to think of it, my DC ruler is in my 11th so perhaps I will marry someone with kidz too? Never thought about that! Thank you, Sand! IP: Logged |
Rosalind
Knowflake Posts: 4239
From:
Registered: Mar 2011
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posted May 01, 2012 08:33 AM
I'm NOT going to argue either but in my experience, 5th house rules BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN, born from your BLOOD and 11th house rules the ADOPTED or STEP children, children who don't have your BLOOD. 11th house includes the children of your PARTNER. 5th house CANNOT be the house of all type of children, because it must exist a difference in your MOTHERHOOD. 5th house shows also if a person is sterile or not. If that person cannot have children on her own, 11th house is the next house checked. 5th house OPPOSITE. 11th house is a top house, a house of PUBLIC. 5th house is a buttom house, a PERSONAL house. So: 5th house: children from your own blood. 11th house: children of STRANGERS. OF OTHERS.IP: Logged |
Lonake
Knowflake Posts: 9947
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 01, 2012 09:01 AM
I have 2 natals with verified birth times who each adopted a child,Person A (infertile)
-empty 5th, Capricorn on the cusp
-Saturn, H5 ruler, is in H11 in Cancer
-Saturn is conj Cancer NN in the 10th
-Saturn is conj Cancer Mercury in the 11th -H11 has, as already mentioned, Saturn, Mercury, Pluto, Cancer on the cusp
-Moon, H11 ruler, is in H6 in Aquarius
-Pluto is sq Taurus Mars in H9
-Moon is opp Cancer Pluto in H11
-Moon is sq Taurus Mars in H9
-Moon is sq Taurus Venus in H9
-Moon is trine Gemini Uranus in H10 Person B
-empty 5th, Scorpio on the cusp
-Pluto, H5 ruler, is in H1 in Leo
-Pluto is sextile Gemini Uranus in H11
-Pluto is sextile Libra Neptune in H4 (Neptune is conj the IC) -H11 has Uranus in Gemini, Taurus on the cusp
-Venus, H11 ruler, is in H9 in Pisces
-Uranus is sq Pisces Sun in H9
-Uranus is sq Pisces Venus in H9
-Uranus is trine Libra Neptune in H4
-Venus is conj Pisces Sun in H9
-Venus is conj Pisces Moon in H9
-Venus is trine Cancer Saturn in H12
-Venus is trine Cancer Mars in H12 Both of them have
-empty H5
-malefic signs on cusp of H5 (Scorp/Cap)
-H5 ruler connected to H11 (A has H5 ruler in the 11th, B has H5 ruler in aspect to an 11th house placement)
-Aqua/Uranus connected to H11 (A has H11 ruler in Aquarius, B has Uranus in H11)
-a connection of H11 ruler to H9 (A has ruler of 11th sq planets in 9th, B has ruler of 11th in 9th)
-both have a placement in H11 sq to a placement in H9
-they also both have a connection from the 4th to the 9th with a benefic involved:
A has Sagittarius IC, with its ruler Jupiter in H1 trine Venus in H9
B has IC ruler, Venus, in H9 H9 rules legal affairs in general, and you have to go through the courts to adopt, so perhaps that is the connection here. H11 rules hopes/wishes/benevolence. IP: Logged |
Hera
Knowflake Posts: 8636
From: Olympus
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 01, 2012 09:41 AM
Thank you, Lonake!My chart has pretty much all the indications you listed! "-empty H5" -> yes, only NN is there. "-malefic signs on cusp of H5 (Scorp/Cap)" -> I don't exactly have this one, I have Gemini on the 5H, but its ruler Mercury is in Aries, conj a malefic (Mars) and in opposition with other 2 (Pluto and Saturn) "-H5 ruler connected to H11 (A has H5 ruler in the 11th, B has H5 ruler in aspect to an 11th house placement)" -> I have Mercury 5HR trine Moon and Neptune in 11H "-Aqua/Uranus connected to H11 (A has H11 ruler in Aquarius, B has Uranus in H11)" -> I have 11HR conjunct Uranus "-a connection of H11 ruler to H9 (A has ruler of 11th sq planets in 9th, B has ruler of 11th in 9th)" -> my 11HR is Jupiter, natural ruler of the 9th (does that count?) "-both have a placement in H11 sq to a placement in H9" (I have sextiles -> Moon-Neptune sextile Pluto-Saturn) "-they also both have a connection from the 4th to the 9th with a benefic involved:
A has Sagittarius IC, with its ruler Jupiter in H1 trine Venus in H9
B has IC ruler, Venus, in H9" (I have Libra on the 9H cusp, with Venus ruler of 9H conj IC in Taurus) IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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