posted August 19, 2012 04:01 PM            

i often find myself having suicidal thoughts i never say then to anybody but i really feel like life is not worth the trouble sometimes . i try to look on the brightside but the dark comes creeeping in , i wonder if everyone is like this or is it just me ?

posted August 19, 2012 04:14 PM            

Moon or Venus square or opposite Saturn could lead to depression.

Moon or Venus square or opposite Neptune can also be depressive.

posted August 19, 2012 06:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Capricorn Sun:
I think everyone has these thoughts.

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posted August 20, 2012 12:00 AM            

I also attest to Saturn-ASC, Saturn-Venus even with + aspects, Saturn-Neptune and Saturn-Mercury. Planets in the houses of the mind, the 9th and 3rd, being afflicted, e.g., Saturn in the 3rd square Neptune+Uranus.

posted August 20, 2012 12:17 AM            

Belgade, my link.

I think there's a dark nasty scorpy moon out. I feel very violent almost, I'd love to hurt stupid people. lol ( I have my reasons )

posted August 20, 2012 03:18 AM            

During the past year, I had moments of suicidal thoughts but this was because i was dealing with deep hurt and family issues (am in my saturn return) but I was seeing a therapist so was able to move through the dark days....it did pass but at the time I couldn't see it.

I would go and see someone.

wishing you the best and light

posted August 20, 2012 04:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Capricorn Sun:
I think everyone has these thoughts.

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No. Most people acknowledge death as a disease - and they prefer to stay away from any thoughts related to death as part of the present, even when they mention death - they portray it as part of the future or related to fate ("when" I'll die... / only God knows.../ God's will... and so on...).

When a religious person gets in deep state of depression or anxiety - they tend to blame it on God ("why won't God let me die...haven't i suffered enough...") - and "they won't commit suicide unless they loose fate..." wile non-religious persons think about death as a solution to their pain... and sometimes - when things get unbearable they commit such acts.

Most religious people - can't get in touch with their spiritual nature - yet their fate is still strong "and that helps their psychological nature" - helps them survive situation where non-believers would brake, as stated above - instead of "attacking themselves" - they place that unbearable burden on a exterior source...

- artists from ancient time used to do something similar - because at point it can be hard for a successful artist to compete with himself... he released a master piece - yet all he tried from that point "seemed like crap compared to that" - and many of current artists - end-up in deeps states of depression and some of them end-up committing suicide... yet, great artists from ancient Rome and Greece didn't have this problem - as explained by Elizabeth Gilbert:

quote:

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Gilbert explains that in ancient Greece and ancient Rome people did not believe that creativity came from human beings. Instead, they believed there was a divine attendant spirit that came to human beings from some distant and unknowable source.

The Greeks called these beings "Daemons". It is well-known that Socrates believed that he had a daemon who spoke wisdom to him. The Romans called the disembodied creative spirit a "Genius". That is, a genius was not a particularly clever individual, it was a magical entity that lived in the walls of an artist's studio and would come out and invisibly help the artist with his work.

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So, more exactly - what is suicide? It's the final "defensive mechanism" - the final defensive personality created by our brain... every vital organ in our body - can sustain a certain amount of damage - which can be different from individual to another - same applies to our brain, but compared to other vital organs - the brain can be damaged in two ways both psychical and psychological... and "the suicidal thoughts" resulted from states of depression or anxiety are actually "clear warnings" (in case that state depression wasn't clear enough) - that something is wrong (somehow similar to the way a nerve works by inducing pain and showing that that body part is damaged), it even points up to certain problems/situations that could be the cause of that state of depression...

Unfortunately "this is a faulty defensive mechanism" - it wasn't meant to be faulty and in theory "it wasn't" - still isn't for some... but guess nature - never expected us to "get so prosperous" as a civilization... cause this was intended for a "hunter gatherer brain" - and back then people "would used to take action" when placed in that position - they didn't "afford the luxury of continues states of depression"... most of us don't realize that:

- love used to be a luxury
- survival used to be a luxury
- happiness used to be a luxury
- prosperity used to be a luxury

...they read books, they watch movies, they use celebrities as models and conclude that their life should be similar to that... similar to fantasies and that with little effort from their side if it's possible... just "wishing it" should be enough... those people live in their own world and don't know what life is really about...

Is ignorance bliss? for some is but not for everybody and not all the time.

posted August 20, 2012 04:55 AM            

family and friends are just a bunch of selfish individuals who just want you well in order not to lose you and not to have to deal with their own fear of death through facing yours. meanwhile they say to love is to let go.

posted August 20, 2012 06:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by andstuff:
see someone? all "someone" cares about is pocketing the client's money. this therapy thing is just a massive swindle. all they care about is their bills.

family and friends are just a bunch of selfish individuals who just want you well in order not to lose you and not to have to deal with their own fear of death through facing yours. meanwhile they say to love is to let go.

when i wanted to kill myself no one did ANYTHING to help, they were just reproaching me for being weak and selfish.

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...ok, let's see where your theory goes: you have some dental problems - no point in going to a professional - since it's all just fraud (if we take in consideration the prices charged by dentists - there is some truth in that), where their only interest is their bills... and there's not really a need for that.

It really sux that - those that have an inclination towards psychology can't eat their thoughts and live in their mind... they have to live in the real world like the rest of the people, eat real food and pay their bills like the rest... many psychologists - besides their job, they're also involved in "pro bono" activities - where they try to help those that don't afford it for free... even psychiatrists do that - yet they have to deal with medicine - and it's hard to obtain that type of medicine so you can give it away for free "cause it's part of a business"... same as any other type of business that deals with "products"...

posted August 20, 2012 06:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by 7thGuardian:

...ok, let's see where your theory goes: you have some dental problems - no point in going to a professional - since it's all just fraud (if we take in consideration the prices charged by dentists - there is some truth in that), where their only interest is their bills... and there's not really a need for that.

It really sux that - those that have an inclination towards psychology can't eat their thoughts and live in their mind... they have to live in the real world like the rest of the people, eat real food and pay their bills like the rest... many psychologists - besides their job, they're also involved in "pro bono" activities - where they try to help those that don't afford it for free... even psychiatrists do that - yet they have to deal with medicine - and it's hard to obtain that type of medicine so you can give it away for free "cause it's part of a business"... same as any other type of business that deals with "products"...

Have you ever thought that - maybe your friends and family "don't know how to handle this type of depressions"? - just think about their profession - salesmen, drivers, gym teachers... or whatever profession they have - if it's not psychology related and they never dealt with this type of situations before "how would they know - in which way they could help"? - probably they don't relate with "suicide" in any way - and that situation is really confusing for them.

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there is no point in useless stipulation

in the case of dentists the outcome is tangible, one can assess the quality of the job done

the only psychotherapist i've ever been to (£40 - rip off) told me "you can't change your past, but you can change the future, i want you to think how you want to change it for the next time". i never made it to the next time. like so helpful. really.

please believe me, i have studied psychoanalysis in my life, all of that is rubbish

posted August 20, 2012 07:10 AM            

ruler of 8th,
ruler of 1st and
ruler of the Sun.

In each case is important 8th house, ruler and planets inside.

If the rulers are in hard aspect, in that case can happen suicide.

posted August 20, 2012 08:44 AM            

- only you know how it really went, but from my knowledge - a psychotherapist should to establish a "personal/private" connection with his patient - cause basically that's why you pay him - to be a friend with professional knowledge on handling philological issues... and that's the approach of psychologist - wile a psychiatrist tries to identify the problem in a practical way - and prescribes you what he thinks is the appropriate medicine to help you deal with your condition...

quote:

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please believe me, i have studied psychoanalysis in my life, all of that is rubbish

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..studying is one thing "understanding" is another... and i don't mean this in a insulting way - you don't seem to have an inclination in this direction... you use a "pragmatical approach" - aiming for a practical answer... but the mind of an individual - can be to complicated to be measured by practical terms and "fixed" with practical solutions (that could work with a PC or an electronic device)... I'm sure that there are other domains where you excel - but this is not one of them... and honestly - i might fail in those domains (as i do in others - badly)... for example - I'd fail at acting like a Virgo...

posted August 20, 2012 12:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
So, more exactly - what is suicide? It's the final "defensive mechanism" - the final defensive personality created by our brain... every vital organ in our body - can sustain a certain amount of damage - which can be different from individual to another - same applies to our brain, but compared to other vital organs - the brain can be damaged in two ways both psychical and psychological... and "the suicidal thoughts" resulted from states of depression or anxiety are actually "clear warnings" (in case that state depression wasn't clear enough) - that something is wrong (somehow similar to the way a nerve works by inducing pain and showing that that body part is damaged), it even points up to certain problems/situations that could be the cause of that state of depression...

Unfortunately "this is a faulty defensive mechanism" - it wasn't meant to be faulty and in theory "it wasn't" - still isn't for some... but guess nature - never expected us to "get so prosperous" as a civilization... cause this was intended for a "hunter gatherer brain" - and back then people "would used to take action" when placed in that position - they didn't "afford the luxury of continues states of depression"... most of us don't realize that:

- love used to be a luxury
- survival used to be a luxury
- happiness used to be a luxury
- prosperity used to be a luxury

...they read books, they watch movies, they use celebrities as models and conclude that their life should be similar to that... similar to fantasies and that with little effort from their side if it's possible... just "wishing it" should be enough... those people live in their own world and don't know what life is really about...

Is ignorance bliss? for some is but not for everybody and not all the time.

---

This is just your view. Everyone at one point or another in life thinks it, it is human. It's in our psyche to be curious about death and creating it ourselves. Not saying it is normal, but what is normal? We want to be masters of our own fates, that is every living beings emotional state a majority of time. To be in CONTROL.

posted August 20, 2012 12:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by andstuff:
see someone? all "someone" cares about is pocketing the client's money. this therapy thing is just a massive swindle. all they care about is their bills.

family and friends are just a bunch of selfish individuals who just want you well in order not to lose you and not to have to deal with their own fear of death through facing yours. meanwhile they say to love is to let go.

when i wanted to kill myself no one did ANYTHING to help, they were just reproaching me for being weak and selfish.

---

This is very true. It may seem negative to most but it is bluntly the obvious, they do not want to face.

posted August 20, 2012 12:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by andstuff:
well, what i was saying is - psychoanalysts don't give a damn if you die, they will get themselves another client. full stop. and i'm not cluttering this thread with any more rubbish, out of respect for OP and anybody who is interested in the subject.

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...even those that treat their patients like products - care if they live or die, cause that can lower their value as doctors - they care about the evolution of the treatment and the result and that can suffice for most cases - even from a product wise perspective - who'd go to a doctor "who lost his last patients cause apparently - he isn't that capable at was he's doing"? - caring is not a necessity - but objectivity is, that's why doctors with a emotional connection to a certain patient - might not be able to help him as best as one who treats his problems with objectivity.

I prefer the friendly approach cause that's the way i am - and i'm sure there others that feel the same, but i'm also aware that others can do a great job - being very good at what they do - just because they have a deep passion for their line work.

Sigmund Freud could be such example and he's the father of psychoanalysis("modern psychology") - and i doubt there's anyone with knowledge of his work - who can deny the benefits resulted from - psychoanalysis. Before Sigmund Freud (before psychoanalysis) - if you acted suicidal and shown signs of deep depression - you'd be taken to a mental institution where - nobody bothered with understanding your problems "by talking to you" - they'd simply treat you based on how they saw fit... the treatments were inhumane to say at least - electroshock being only one of their brutal procedures used on daily basis... and Sigmund Freud changed all that - with the introduction of psychoanalysis.