posted September 23, 2012 03:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TheManticore:
@RegardesPlatero

Thank you RegardesPlatero for responding , I'm assuming you're a Cancer woman yourself?

I agree it is not that long, but I have seen her quite a bit in that amount of time.

The reasons you stated are interesting, I think she is probably a little bit of all of them . If she has been rehearsing it mentally then she is amazing at delivery because it seemed to me that all of it was on the fly. Would you say that Cancer women plan things like that often? (assuming you are a Cancer )

Also, what in your opinion would be signs I should look for? Good or bad.

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signs as in signals, you mean? as in cues?

Personally, that's hard to say. I am a very highly suspicious person. I have to have an intuitive "green light" feeling to trust someone. It just has to naturally occur for me, and even with green-light people I have to get to know them over time. It's also possible for even green-light people to not ever really get close to me, even if they spend time with me. For me to really feel close to and connected to someone on a deep level is very rare, even with people I like. There's always this lingering emptiness in my relationships, even when people spend more time with me and know me better than the average person who's made my acquaintance. There's always distance.

I do honestly feel torn very often between wanting to be secretive and mysterious and have this "mystique", and wanting closeness.

posted September 23, 2012 03:38 PM            

I agree it is vague, I guess I am just trying to scope out the way that cancer women behave in these situations in general. She definitely has the hardest shell of any cancer I have met, but she also has been through a lot .

"I would just make sure that what you say and what you do are the same thing. Don't try to impress her with something if it's not you - it will backfire. "

^^^Good idea . We Leo's do have a tendency to over-dramatize things lol.

I am pretty sure she does, but sometimes it is so subtle that I can't tell

posted September 23, 2012 03:53 PM            

So would you say that the Cancer planning thing is based off of self-protection and security? I probably do something similar with my Moon in Scorpio .

Hmmm, so since she is probably going off her intuition it is doubtful she will verbalize much either way? Thanks for the description, it is really helping me to understand the Cancer psyche . Btw yeah I did mean signs/hints/clues that she liked me or didn't.

Yeah I agree it is going to take time, I just want to make sure it is not for nothing .

posted September 23, 2012 04:01 PM            

"I'm sure she likes you or she wouldn't be opening up at all"

^^^I was hoping that that was the case, thanks for the reassurance .

"I just mean that when she *really* likes you, you will know"

^^^Yeah, I think you are talking about the soft squishy inside of the crab . That is what I am hoping to reach! I can tell it is there but she is very cautious and not obvious in the slightest . Guess I'll really have to earn it, which is fine with me

posted September 23, 2012 04:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TheManticore:
@RegardesPlatero

So would you say that the Cancer planning thing is based off of self-protection and security? I probably do something similar with my Moon in Scorpio .

Hmmm, so since she is probably going off her intuition it is doubtful she will verbalize much either way? Thanks for the description, it is really helping me to understand the Cancer psyche . Btw yeah I did mean signs/hints/clues that she liked me or didn't.

Yeah I agree it is going to take time, I just want to make sure it is not for nothing .

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I think that rather than looking at this as a "way in", maybe it would be better to simply take it as it is and value it as an experience to possibly get to know another person.

Personally, if I felt like someone was only getting to know me to get into my pants or have "that kind" of relationship with me, and was only listening to me with a motive like that, I'd be furious and that would break my trust, especially if I had told that person really personal things. I would go into silent-treatment mode and just act like that person no longer existed, had never existed. That person would be out of my life, with no chance of coming back.

As I said, it can take me years to trust people and feel even somewhat close/connected. So, two weeks is really not enough time, in my opinion. Even if you're spending a lot of time together, you need a lot more time than that, or at least I would--in my case, again, years.

If you don't mind my asking: why is it that it's so important to you that she open up--what is your reason in wanting that so much? And do you do the same with her? (You don't have to answer if you don't want to).

I'm not saying that's the case with you, though your phrase "for nothing" concerns me a bit, but I will caution you to not see her as a means to an end, as that's an easy trap to fall into--it's happened to me, in different (i.e., non-romantic) contexts. I'm also saying this so that you don't end up with the silent treatment if you genuinely care for her and have good intentions.

I would say that a good thing to say--and only if you sincerely mean it--is that you're here for her if she wants to talk, but are not going to pressure her. And stand by that.

Whether you end up dating her or not, value her as a person, no matter what. Even if you don't end up with her romantically, your experience in getting to know her will teach you something valuable.

As someone who has also gone through things, I'll reiterate: be patient. Don't rush her. She has to open up on her own time. She's the one who gets to pick what her timeline is, and what she feels comfortable sharing, and when. What you may feel is 'slow' may feel 'fast' to her, and your timelines may be different. Respect her past by allowing her to set the pace on how much she opens up and when she decides to do that--if she does, and if she decides not to, respect that, too.

posted September 23, 2012 05:17 PM            

I think that the energy of a Cancer Moon has a tougher shell which is harder to penetrate but once trust is earned, the "typical" Cancerian loyalty kicks in to high gear. Do you find this to be true for you Platero?

I get the sense that Manticore just wants to understand and genuinely cares about getting to know about this person but I agree with everything you said Platero, especially the part about also opening up. Honesty engenders trust so giving it time and being real is the best way to go about getting to know anyone.

posted September 23, 2012 05:38 PM            

Whoa, what a response lol .

A couple things first, my intent is in no way to just "get in her pants". Yes I am trying to find a "way in" with her, but it is for the purpose of getting to know her better and hopefully forming a close bond with her.

I have opened up with her in return as well. I guess I want it because I want a relationship that is really close, one where everything is out on the table and discussed.

I do not see her as a "means to an end", I would never treat a woman in such a way. I probably should not have used the words "for nothing", but what I meant by that was my intent is to pursue a romantic relationship with her and anything less than that would be a disappointment. Of course it would be a learning experience, but nonetheless I would be upset. Also, I already do value her as a person or I would not even be interested. I don't even talk to people I don't value lol

I will be patient and respect her pace, and I would not betray her trust just as I would not want someone to betray mine . Thank you for your wise and extensive advice lol , tell me if I missed anything!

posted September 23, 2012 05:44 PM            

I agree with that theory, the moon is always a much more private and sensitive planet .

"I get the sense that Manticore just wants to understand and genuinely cares about getting to know about this person"

^^^Thank you

posted September 23, 2012 07:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sorcha:
This is an interesting conversation because I find that Cancer Sun and Cancer Moon, while obviously similar, don't operate in the same way. Cancer Moon (in my experience) is far more protective of their feelings than Cancer Sun. (And as always when I talk about simple chart placements, I always include my generalization disclaimer.)

I think that the energy of a Cancer Moon has a tougher shell which is harder to penetrate but once trust is earned, the "typical" Cancerian loyalty kicks in to high gear. Do you find this to be true for you Platero?

I get the sense that Manticore just wants to understand and genuinely cares about getting to know about this person but I agree with everything you said Platero, especially the part about also opening up. Honesty engenders trust so giving it time and being real is the best way to go about getting to know anyone.

I do think it's probably easier (and possibly faster) with a Cancer Sun than Moon though, purely based on my experiences.

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I am trying to work on assertiveness, so I'm trying to be more open/honest even when what I say may not be popular, though still with tact.

It is hard to earn my loyalty, respect, or trust. Even when earned, they can be lost.

posted September 23, 2012 07:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TheManticore:
@RegardesPlatero

Whoa, what a response lol .

A couple things first, my intent is in no way to just "get in her pants". Yes I am trying to find a "way in" with her, but it is for the purpose of getting to know her better and hopefully forming a close bond with her.

I have opened up with her in return as well. I guess I want it because I want a relationship that is really close, one where everything is out on the table and discussed.

I do not see her as a "means to an end", I would never treat a woman in such a way. I probably should not have used the words "for nothing", but what I meant by that was my intent is to pursue a romantic relationship with her and anything less than that would be a disappointment. Of course it would be a learning experience, but nonetheless I would be upset. Also, I already do value her as a person or I would not even be interested. I don't even talk to people I don't value lol

I will be patient and respect her pace, and I would not betray her trust just as I would not want someone to betray mine . Thank you for your wise and extensive advice lol , tell me if I missed anything!

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You say that you'd be upset. May I ask you something? Would you still want to know her even if things didn't go "that way", or would she be of no interest/value to you? Do you care for her to the point that you'd rather have her in your life as a friend and not romantically than to lose her entirely? When you say that you wish to have a close bond with her, what makes you want that? And would you rather have a bond with her that isn't maybe romantic than to have no bond at all?

If you do feel comfortable answering, please be honest.

posted September 23, 2012 08:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
You say that you'd be upset. May I ask you something? Would you still want to know her even if things didn't go "that way", or would she be of no interest/value to you? Do you care for her to the point that you'd rather have her in your life as a friend and not romantically than to lose her entirely? When you say that you wish to have a close bond with her, what makes you want that? And would you rather have a bond with her that isn't maybe romantic than to have no bond at all?

If you do feel comfortable answering, please be honest.

To be honest myself, I find it kind of hard to understand why people only pursue people if there's romantic interest. That doesn't really make any sense to me. I personally don't do that, so I'm interested to understand the mentality behind it. If I like a person and find them nice to be around and fun to talk to, my goal is to become friends. I don't really have any significant interest in dating, so I don't really empathize with the concept of seeing people in terms of their romantic/sexual value. Friends are hard to find, especially lifelong ones; I value that a lot. This is going to sound really lame, but I've always wanted (and have never had) a little "group" of friends--the kind that are like family--that would be with me for years and years. So, I'm curious to understand that more, since it's not something I experience or relate to at all and it's a bit of a foreign concept to me.

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Me too, I only have Venus and Jupiter in Cancer, but I also find it hard to understand why some people could only like someone for romantic interests. My ex was like that, though I do understand, it did disappoint me to an extent. Maybe it's my Aqua moon on the works but yeah, I would like to be genuinely cared for as a person too... not just being shown a 'caring gesture' that you could flip the switch off once you realize that the person is just thinking of friendship at the meantime. Maybe that's why Cancerian people like giving little 'tests' while behind a hard shell beforehand, they just want to know if you'll try a little harder and stay with them despite what he/she says. Cancerians can have the tendency of being oblivious of their own feelings too... btw, by trying a little harder doesn't mean being more aggressive about it. It's just silent persistence, they would like a stable person that could carry them despite their infamous mood swings.

I think you should look at where her Venus and Moon is at, to know if she's finally opening up. Venus is how we express our love and interests afterall, and the Moon, well, you know the rest.

posted September 23, 2012 10:36 PM            

You have something against me? All these questions! lol j/k

"If you do feel comfortable answering, please be honest. "

^^^Always am

Of course I would WANT to still be friends with her if it did not work but the main issue is whether I can HANDLE it or not, make no mistake the problem is solely mine lol. What I mean by that is once I put myself out there it is hard for me to back track to just friends. The rejection usually hurts too much for me to deal with and trying to go back and be friends again is just awkward and uncomfortable for both of us. That is why I don't pursue someone unless I really think it will work . And HONESTLY I have friends, I am not really looking for more at the moment. I am trying to fill a void in my life which is currently a lack of a loving relationship/partner .

Does that help at all? lol

posted September 23, 2012 10:57 PM            

I would like to point out that it is not like I am PURPOSELY choosing to only like them romantically, it just happens that way. It would be dishonest of me to pretend like being just friends would be ok with me when the feelings are already established. Also, I consider friendship as being part of love and a relationship so it's not like I am NOT friends with whoever I am with.

As far as the "flipping the switch", I have done that and let me explain. I see caring gestures as a showing of interest romantically, so when they say they are not interested in that way there is no longer a point in continuing that behavior. It would just make them uncomfortable and the pursuer would be wasting their time.

Silent persistence, great description of what I need to do. But it is hard for me as a Leo to be silent lol

"Try noticing little stuff about her, and break the ice from there!"

^^^Great idea!

posted September 24, 2012 05:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TheManticore:
@RegardesPlatero

You have something against me? All these questions! lol j/k

"If you do feel comfortable answering, please be honest. "

^^^Always am

Of course I would WANT to still be friends with her if it did not work but the main issue is whether I can HANDLE it or not, make no mistake the problem is solely mine lol. What I mean by that is once I put myself out there it is hard for me to back track to just friends. The rejection usually hurts too much for me to deal with and trying to go back and be friends again is just awkward and uncomfortable for both of us. That is why I don't pursue someone unless I really think it will work . And HONESTLY I have friends, I am not really looking for more at the moment. I am trying to fill a void in my life which is currently a lack of a loving relationship/partner .

Does that help at all? lol

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Oh, I don't have anything against you at all! Again, I'm trying to be assertive and honest. So, I apologize if I was invasive. Plus, I honestly am curious to understand; to use an analogy, it's like going to another country and trying to learn their customs.

I'll admit that it does make me feel a bit sad when you say that you "have enough friends and aren't looking for more", but I do appreciate the honesty. Plus, knowledge is power. Good and useful information to have.

I'll also admit that I don't really understand (in the sense of "empathize"; I understand it intellectually but I can't relate to it) the feeling of 'void' for a partner. I understand getting lonely from time to time, or maybe being curious as to what it would be like to have a partner, but I don't understand feeling like you're missing something. I feel whole and complete and don't feel like I'm a half-person who needs another half. I think it was Aristophanes in the Symposium, if I'm remembering right, who said that people were created double-bodied but then split apart, and spent their lives looking for the missing piece. I don't really understand that view in terms of being able to have empathy--I understand it intellectually, but not emotionally. Head gets it, heart doesn't. I know sometimes guys aren't as open about feelings as women due to social conditioning, but if you don't mind be drilled again: what is it like emotionally for guys when they really like someone that way? And why is it hard when someone isn't interested? I mean I could see it being hard at first, and needing time, but do you ever kind of get over it?

Also, does it make a difference if she doesn't want to be with anyone vs. if she's lesbian/bi but interested in a girl vs. if she is interested in another guy?

posted September 24, 2012 05:34 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TheManticore:
@Ariehnox

I see caring gestures as a showing of interest romantically

[...]

when they say they are not interested in that way there is no longer a point in continuing that behavior

[...]

the pursuer would be wasting their time

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See, that's what bugs me as a Cancer-influenced person. I want people to do nice things for me because they genuinely want to, without having to get something in return. I know that people (who aren't my friends) often manipulate and use people, and that there are a lot of people in the world who are not good. I know that those kinds of people often give people gifts that come with a price tag. If someone is going to be my friend, I hold them to higher standards than "normal people".

If someone is only being nice to me to get something, then I don't like that person, find that manipulative, and will act accordingly. That usually means the silent treatment.

I expect friends to be kind simply to be kind for it's own sake because they want to, and not because they feel like they have to or to gain something, and I also expect not to have it used against me later.

I would consider it a betrayal if someone was only nice to me because they were into me "that way" and stopped being my friend when I said no, and started treating me differently (in a negative way). And, again, I'd act accordingly--silent treatment and total shut-out.

But, again, this information is helpful to me. If any guy friends start showing warning signs, I know to back away and get out of that friendship.

posted September 24, 2012 12:59 PM            

To your 1st response...

I don't feel attacked, I was genuinely teasing . I actually find it interesting how prodding your mind is.

Well of course I would not mind having more friends , it is just not a priority at the moment. I am not actively searching for more is what I mean.

Hmmm, I am not sure how to describe the "void" feeling. Emptiness is a close description. If only I could "lend" you my four planets in the 7th house and my Leo sun and Scorpio moon for a little while lol

I do agree most guys are not open with their feelings. I think I surprisingly am especially considering I have a Scorpio moon lol. Although it has taken a lot of death/rebirth cycles to reach this point.

"what is it like emotionally for guys when they really like someone that way?"

^^^For me personally, it is an overwhelming tidal wave. I can't stop thinking about them, and I obsess about it constantly. Is that embarrassingly honest enough? lol

"And why is it hard when someone isn't interested?"

^^^Pride. It hurts my confidence and my ego, not to mention I am all to aware of the incoming feeling of loneliness which follows.

"I mean I could see it being hard at first, and needing time, but do you ever kind of get over it? "

^^^I do, but it takes a long time. I usually don't want to look at them or hear their name for at least a couple months afterward lol.

"Also, does it make a difference if she doesn't want to be with anyone vs. if she's lesbian/bi but interested in a girl vs. if she is interested in another guy?"

^^^Gender makes no difference to me, if she likes someone else, she likes someone else. If she said she didn't want to be with anyone that would probably be less painful yes, but at the same time I would just think she is lying to let me down gently because if the right person came along I think she would.

posted September 24, 2012 01:04 PM            

To your 2nd response...

What I meant was flirting/hitting on you gestures, as in things you would not do towards a sister/brother . Those are the things I would stop doing.

When I do things towards someone I do genuinely want to do them, whether romantic or not, it is sincere at the time when it is done. Everyone does everything for some kind of personal return, whether it be from another or internally like a good feeling inside. Even with your friends or day to day random people you encounter, when you are nice to them you expect kindness in return or thanks. Expectation of some kind of "reward" is always there imo, just the size and significance/type of the reward is what changes.

I know that you are not directly saying it is me that does all those things, but since you are going off of my statements... I would just like to say that my actions are in no way motivated by the intents and purposes you stated above.