|
Author
|
Topic: Astrology Skeptic
|
Lotis White
Knowflake Posts: 1088
From: USA
Registered: Dec 2010
|
posted November 11, 2012 12:44 AM
  
. IP: Logged |
vertiver
Knowflake Posts: 1995
From: Firey Jupiter
Registered: May 2009
|
posted November 11, 2012 01:05 AM
Wow, Lotis your passion for astrology really is moving. Plus we both have Gemini Desc only I have Leo Mercury but fire Mercury's none the less... IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Knowflake Posts: 6790
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted November 11, 2012 05:13 AM
Vertiver,I think I am probably most similiar to Lotiswhite in my take on astrology around here. I just take immense joy doing it. However, I agree that it often is a fine line we are walking, and it is easy to use it to justify some grand dreams or even delusions we may have.
I am always stumped if someone posts on here that astrology doesn`t work because they had great synastry with someone and it didn`t work out.
Apart from the fact that astrology does not dictate the outcome of any relationship, as anyone still has to decide how they handle the energetic meshing that is being described , I don`t think we really know what "great" synastry is.
We have some educated guesses, and some are pretty good and experienced, but in a way to me astrology is still a language people are busy deciphering.
I am especially wary of people who base their whole take on astrology or judgement on their own synastries alone. I think that people rarely are objective when it comes to themselves. I believe that people are not being able to be absolutely objective at all, but if it comes to their own experiences, even less so.
For this reason I LOVED Paul Westran`s research. First of all he knows how to do statistics, and then he had a big set of synastries to look at (1300 relationships, research being carried out between 1998 and 2005).
http://www.positiveastrology.com/ANS.asp
It was actually this book that turned me to astrology again. I was very frustrated with the vagueness and the difference in opinion and some other things. However, I realized that it was not astrology, that was being vague or unreliable. I just had forgotten to keep a good handle on the basics, keeping my priorities straigt.
It`s not the astrology that was fallible, I was, as I had started to lose sight of the pattern.
You said something very important. Every person is different.
I think that needs to be taken into account for every kind of analysis.
There may be some basic aspects that are being experienced similiarly between people; but ultimatively it is our natal chart that dictates how we experience certain synastric aspects.
A Sun-Mars-square or Mars-Pluto-square in synastry actually tells nothing, or very little, if you donīt anchor it onto the ground of the natal charts.
However, I think it`s a good idea to step back from astrology, if you feel you BASE a relationship on it.
Astrology is simply a descriptive tool and helps you to understand certain dynamics.
I have the best and deepest friendship with a woman whose Sun/Saturn/MC-conjunction falls onto my Moon, with her Mars being opposite my Moon and her Neptune squaring my Moon. My Saturn conjuncts her ASC.
If I looked from a superficial perspective on this I would say that probably I would feel cornered, defensive in such a connection. That she would try to delude me and hurt me immensely.
Nothing of that ever happened (we`ve known each other for 8 years now). She pushes me sometimes, but actually I need to be pushed at times, to take my head out of the sand. And I appreciate her non-nonsense, sometimes blunt honesty. There is never any small talk between us. lol Probably many astroogers would have warned me of a friendship with these aspects; when I feel that this is the sort of friendship I need, as I donīt do "small talk friendships" very well. Sorry for rambling, I just want to say that I think it`s good to step back some time, when you realize that a descriptive tool becomes a deciding tool in your life (in this case astrology).
EDIT:
BTW I have Gemini DESC (7 degree) and Fire Mercury (25 Sagittarius), too. 
IP: Logged |
Lonake
Moderator Posts: 9347
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted November 11, 2012 06:57 AM
I like synastry astrology esp when looking at a real issue between 2 people who do want to get along and make it work, but not looking for an issue. Many on here come on board (not naming you vertiver I just see this in general on this board) to try to have their lives wired down to the exact detail so that nothing can possibly go wrong and they can finally have the love life they want. One member in particular is here with the intent of nothing else (literally nothing else) and her username is apt; in the beginning I would field her questions but no longer as her bizarre obsession with how the charts relate to her love life is literally off the charts and frankly at this point just creepy. What astrologer would want that responsibility? Some of the questions I've responded to here have at times later in the conversation dived dangerously into that territory to the point where I've had to verbalize boundaries and remind people of their personal responsibility to steer their own ship. Do I want to make decisions for their lives? The answer is no. So it's obvious on this board that there is a real problem with people wanting to hand their lives over to the stars. That is not a made-up issue and it's not addressed often enough. Also these random questions that provide no astro detail without even providing a chart, we're supposed to be mind readers as well I suppose.But in short:
"I just want to say that I think it`s good to step back some time, when you realize that a descriptive tool becomes a deciding tool in your life (in this case astrology)." ^ Agree. IP: Logged |
its_aqua
Knowflake Posts: 400
From: Mars
Registered: Nov 2012
|
posted November 11, 2012 08:23 AM
My mother used to be heavily affected by astrology. I remember once, she wanted to ask for a lower rent from the housekeeper, but was afraid and sad because according to her astrologer friend, the time wasnt right! I was around 14 or sth like that but I forced her to throw away all the books and magazines she owned and tried to explain to her that everything would go right and that these things aren't true, and in the end it really did as she get the lower rent she wished for.Now that I've grown up, I can say I love analysing natals, synastries and stuff like that. I admit that later in my life I will ask an astrloger when it's the right time to sign a contract or buy a house, but merely as another way to add some luck!
IP: Logged |
7thGuardian
Knowflake Posts: 917
From: Transylvania
Registered: May 2012
|
posted November 11, 2012 08:55 AM
Astrology works, but "not like that" - it's a tool meant for guidance - it shows potential, influences and possible scenarios based on specific placements... yet - based on some of your testimonies some of you took it as a tool with Godlike capabilities which can give you complete control by showing your fate or the fate of your relationship... and that with basic - average knowledge of astrology... now, don't get me wrong - even astrologers with decades of experience have problems with their life - they might be able to grasp certain outcomes better by using astrology... but even they (if not - especially, being aware of astrology should be used) count mostly on the experience with the ones involved - wile their natal chart is just a source of better understanding... sometimes it's even better to ask a colleague for an opinion - certain things are harder to grasp objectively - when reading your own chart......same goes for any field: A psychologist with 30 years of experience, a true professional based on his work and the people he helped - yet, his son committed suicide and didn't see that coming.
"Astrology - the eye of God" - that's not how it works, using astrology like that can lead to misguidance... a natal chart is somehow similar to a "Curriculum vitae" - now, you can't judge a person based on what's available on paper - instead you should judge him based on their performance... based on your experience with that person - our chart can show great potential but cause of something called "free will" - maybe some of us didn't use it... capable... maybe - yet life is more complicated than that and so is a human...
Personalty - i'd use a sinistry as a last resort (so far - i haven't ... i kinda like the element of surprise), similar to the way i'd use psychology... only when something doesn't work, or if i don't understand a person I'm interested in - i'd look for something helpful - something that can explain why would a person behave in such way... but i won't use it as a form of control, won't judge our relation based on our synastry... Their natal chart is enough - for a brief understanding and as a subject of conversation - in case that person is interested in astrology... it can be fun to shock a person with some of the things you know about them... ^^ if they're interested for more - i can go along with their will for an advanced natal chart based on their time of birth - but i won't try to trick them... won't try to get that out of them and read their natal chart without their permission... that's going to far - people that do that are judgmental and manipulative, they try to control things before they're even set in to motion... and that rarely ends well...
IP: Logged |
VenusDiSirius
Knowflake Posts: 4856
From:
Registered: Aug 2010
|
posted November 11, 2012 10:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by vertiver:
I'm highly intutive and in fact I'm
prone to delude myself and live in a dream world and that is why
I've chosen to distance myself from astrology.
This is a very mature perspective. Would only add what can blur intuition is strong imagination - and as you pointed the downside of this is delusion.
I think you are in no danger and have a healthy attitude towards the issue. So,best of luck Miss Leo  IP: Logged |
vertiver
Knowflake Posts: 1995
From: Firey Jupiter
Registered: May 2009
|
posted November 11, 2012 11:44 PM
Lotis I don't think you are ranting at all. In fact you write both rationally yet from the heart and I appreciate your input. I even looked up the link you posted. And everything is very well written, I'll check it out. I'm a 14 Gemini DESC with a 24 Gemini Venus and a 4 Leo Mercury. Overall I'd say I'm just a skeptical person - so of course I'm going to re evaluate my relationship with astrology, Sag ASC is a very philosophical placement over all... Plus I've gone through many changes in the past 6 months that have been beneficial yet sobering to say the least. IP: Logged |
hannaramaa
Knowflake Posts: 4719
From:
Registered: Nov 2011
|
posted November 12, 2012 02:07 AM
I'm surprised anyone would oppose your beliefs, whichever way they blow. Hello! We're on an Astrology forum. It isn't mainstream or even widely accepted which only causes me to wonder how insecure others are about their stance on astrology (I'm not saying you are Vertiver) Good luck, and your always welcome back!IP: Logged |
Mandy pie
Knowflake Posts: 88
From:
Registered: Nov 2012
|
posted November 12, 2012 03:14 AM
I felt the same way as you until I found Vedic astrology. Vedic astrology never ceases to amaze me with it's blunt interpretations and accuracy.The only thing in Western astrology that I really have sound belief in is synastry. It's amazing to me that a couple of people here have expressed that they had perfect synastry with someone where it ended badly! Out of the many synastry charts I've seen where there was excellent synastry between two people it's always been a good relationship...even if circumstances had to make the relationship end for some reason. Honestly I would suspect that either A- one of you had the wrong birth time/day or B- you didn't have excellent synastry between you at all but someone told you you did. I just left another astrology forum where several people claimed that this couple had great synastry- but I saw the chart and I completely disagreed! I think the others were being too soft with their interpretations. IP: Logged |
LauraAesthetic
Knowflake Posts: 50
From: Stargang
Registered: Nov 2012
|
posted November 12, 2012 04:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Xiiro:
To be fair, the way mainstream people use astrology is generally superficial. It's a fun ice-breaker, a way for people to solidify their self image, or a refuge we can run to which pats us on the back and assures us there is order in the universe. Many of us see astrology as a list of positive and negative descriptive words. When we notice those descriptions don't apply we say, "Oh well, I guess it doesn't work". Best of luck =)
Well said. I'd also like to stress on the fact that for years the mainstream in general
never has, and never will give you the "real" or "useful" facts of astrology. I just think they don't care, therefore the response from most people is going to be, "Yes dear I read my horoscope in the washington post; It says I'll find love while taking a crap." But I'm not blaming any outside factors as to why someone might be skeptic. I've always sort of used Astrology as a tool/reference if you will. Just like a Meteorologist might use certain tools to predict the weather. & I tell ya sometimes that ol' logical computer isn't always right either. Then again most predictions aren't. Sometimes just because you can't explain something doesn't mean there's no truth to it. What brought me to astrology were strange phenomena's that I could feel(OBE/LUCID DREAMS EVERYNIGHT/etc.). And no drugs were EVER involved. Unfortunately I just couldn't explain those phenomena's which in turn led me to mystical topics. & A lot of "my" soul mates that were great on a synastry chart, didn't always end up the way I wanted it to. But I just take it as, "Oh we bumped again, but we're not makin magic in this life!" It's just like they say, " Take everything you read with a grain of salt." Goodluck! Vertiver
IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
