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Author
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Topic: Black Moon Lilith - the return of the biotch-Godess
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Orange
Knowflake Posts: 4984
From: Georgia
Registered: May 2009
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posted February 16, 2013 11:28 AM
  
I like Ails intepretation as well. IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27922
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted February 16, 2013 11:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Orange:
I like Ails intepretation as well. My mean BML conjuncts Sun and DSC and i am a notorious rebel, since early childhood. I deteste anyone telling me what to do. I always have had problems with authorities and i dont like the notion of being subordinate to any man.
My true BML is in the 6th house and makes only trines to Moon and Venus. Most of my rebelions happen at work, as i hate managers getting all bossy on me.
Only trines to Moon (and Venus)?
Honestly, ANY aspect between Moon and BML seems to deserve a lot of attention to me. (as would aspects of BML to Sun or the nodal axis). IP: Logged |
ail221
Moderator Posts: 6951
From: Hanging Gardens of Babylon
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted February 16, 2013 11:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
An interesting way to look at it.  To be honest, while I can see how both are in effect, if I had to pick one, it would always be true BML.
Luckily noone forces me to pick one. 
Anyone forcing you to choose would be defying the very nature of Lilith.
IP: Logged |
T
Knowflake Posts: 11928
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 16, 2013 11:56 AM
A male astrologer friend of mine pays attention to this one alot in charts. I wonder if it's more important in women's charts? I don't know enough about it. Not sure why i never payed much attention to it over the years.*bookmarking* to come back and read later.  Thanks. IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27922
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted February 16, 2013 12:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ail221:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[b] An interesting way to look at it. To be honest, while I can see how both are in effect, if I had to pick one, it would always be true BML.
Luckily noone forces me to pick one.
Anyone forcing you to choose would be defying the very nature of Lilith. [/B][/QUOTE]These were my exacct thoughts! BEing in Aquarius and trine Uranus (true LIlith that is) and in 3rd house there is a decidedly Uranian streak to my very personal Black Moon. (add to that An aqua Moon, and Psyche in Aqua exactly conjunct the mean BML, and Pallas in Aquarius, too, and you get quite an Aquarian mind I guess. lol) IP: Logged |
Orange
Knowflake Posts: 4984
From: Georgia
Registered: May 2009
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posted February 16, 2013 12:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Honestly, ANY aspect between Moon and BML seems to deserve a lot of attention to me. (as would aspects of BML to Sun or the nodal axis).
yes, my mean BML conjuncts South Node as well.
And Regulus, 0 degree.IP: Logged |
Lotis White
Moderator Posts: 2216
From: USA
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted February 16, 2013 08:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ail221:
Personally I find mean Lilith (additional options) Lilith contacts in natal and synastry the most obvious, sort of the way we wear our ascendants. True Lilith is more of our core like our sun signs.
So using this theory my Lilith has Gemini rising and Cancer Sun. In a way I can see how this fits... Part of my mental image of a Lilith type is that of a playful little minx. You know, someone who enjoys tricking people or winding them up on purpose. The other mental image I have of Lilith is that of a women who is outraged due some threat to her basic security needs, or because she is crossed in love... (Both my Liliths are in the 7th house) and she then goes into a kind of emotional hyperdrive, where he views of reality are very skewed. When I think 'bad girl' in the stereotypical sense, these are the two types of images that come to me, and they quite match my two different Lilith positions. My averaged BML is at 27 Gemini in the 7th house, opposite my Venus in the 1st house at 29 Sagittarius. My Osc BML is at 5 degrees Cancer in the 7th house, opposite my Sun at 5 Capricorn in the 1st house.
Lilith is pretty strong in my chart but I'm certainly not a Femme Fatale or 'bad girl' by any stretch of the imagination. I think Lilith's influence in my chart is more subtle then that. Actually, if anything, I define myself as sharply in contrast to those characteristics commonly associated with the dark side of the feminine. If I catch myself sinking into jealousy and resentment, I have a tendency to mentally shake myself and force myself to snap out of it. Instinctively I know that giving into petty negative feelings is counterproductive and wont lead anywhere good. I fully embrace that Im probably a stereotypical good girl more then anything, and consider myself to be a lady with ethics and standards. Its something I wear like a badge of honor. Theres a lot of hyper-sexualized stuff in the media these days, and where once women were only pressured to be chaste and uptight, now there is actually quite a bit of social pressure out there to do just the opposite. Not form authorities and elders, but amongst peers in social settings. Well, I refuse to be a loose party girl that has one night stands no matter what. In a way, I think this is part of my rebellion. Im sticking to my standards regardless. This makes sense when you consider the fact that both my Liliths are in opposition to two important planets in my chart (Venus and the Sun) from my 7th house. On some level Ive probably used my Lilith positions to define myself as what I not, rather then what I am. I wouldnt consider myself a good girl in the sense of being naive and clueless, but rather because I have a pretty good idea of how destructive it can be when you act out the uncontrolled, dark urges of the Lilith archetype. Its like I have perspective on Lilith-like topics without actually involving myself in Lilith-like scenarios. One part of the Lilith archetype that I really relate to is the quest for secret knowledge and inside information. I love love love being able to perceive the inside scoop on things, and astrology allows me to do this. Also, my intuition is pretty sharp and I can often feel when its safe or when its dangerous to proceed. By nature Im rather nosey, and I like to understand where others are coming form. This part of the Lilith archetype I enjoy very much. I also think Lilith in my 7th house fits pretty well. I once saw a psychic who said that one of my past lives was as a women trapped in a harem, and that I hated it and longed for freedom. On some deep level I resonated with this and I think it might be true. Nataly, Im a Capricorn Sun with a stellium of planets in Sagittarius, ruled by Jupiter in early Cancer in the 7th house. It occurred to me that my explosion of planets in Sagittarius, and my Jupiter in the 7th house, was actually part of me breaking free from this controlled past life, especially in the area of marriage. Ive always had this determined, almost kind of self-righteous tendency, to not want to settle for less when it comes to marriage. I wouldnt cave and just do it for material reasons and social approval. Ive got nothing against marriage. In fact Id love to get married provided that the man in question is the right person for me. If he doesnt instinctively feel like the right person then I cant commit. I want to be madly in love, and have my husband as my best friend. Anything less then that is unacceptable. If this past life thing is true, this would explain my self-determination when it comes to finding the right person for me. Perhaps it stems form the painful experience of a forced marriage, where there was no choice but to be with a man not of my choosing. This life I must be with the man that I want, choose, and love, and I wouldn't allow myself to be pressured to do otherwise. All of this fits my Lilith in the 7th house pretty well. Im now in my 30s and Im still not married. Ive experienced a little bit of pressure from my family in regard to this. Its more in what they dont say, then in what they do say, if you catch my drift. Ive decided not to be upset at the slight hint of disapproval and worry that they have over me not yet finding a life mate. I think this is both my Liliths in the 7th house in action. Pressure from my family is not going to change my mind, or cause me to compromise, although sometimes it makes me a little sad. For some reason, deep inside, Im not that worried when it comes to myself. Ive always that the intuitive impression that after my long wait Id eventually find an amazing man, fall in love, and have a long and happy marriage. So heres hoping it gets here soon! (Cant help myself, my Sag planets are optimistic). Theres a Jane Austen quote I feel sums up what Im getting at here.
I am determined that nothing but the deepest love could ever induce me into matrimony.
Elizabeth Bennet, from Pride and Prejudice. I always resonated with that line. Another thing, I think the example of how Lilith works in my chart is a pretty good example of how Lilith can function in subtle ways. Its not always a case of people being or experiencing complete and total biatches! in that area of life (not that this doesnt happen sometimes). Liliths positions can simply be about sticking to your convictions even in the face of some obstacles, disapproval or controversy.
IP: Logged |
ail221
Moderator Posts: 6951
From: Hanging Gardens of Babylon
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted February 16, 2013 08:53 PM
QUOTE]Originally posted by Lotis White:
So using this theory my Lilith has Gemini rising and Cancer Sun. In a way I can see how this fits... Part of my mental image of a Lilith type is that of a playful little minx. You know, someone who enjoys tricking people or winding them up on purpose. The other mental image I have of Lilith is that of a women who is outraged due some threat to her basic security needs, or because she is crossed in love... (Both my Liliths are in the 7th house) and she then goes into a kind of emotional hyperdrive, where he views of reality are very skewed. When I think 'bad girl' in the stereotypical sense, these are the two types of images that come to me, and they quite match my two different Lilith positions. My averaged BML is at 27 Gemini in the 7th house, opposite my Venus in the 1st house at 29 Sagittarius. My Osc BML is at 5 degrees Cancer in the 7th house, opposite my Sun at 5 Capricorn in the 1st house.
Lilith is pretty strong in my chart but I'm certainly not a Femme Fatale or 'bad girl' by any stretch of the imagination. I think Lilith's influence in my chart is more subtle then that. Actually, if anything, I define myself as sharply in contrast to those characteristics commonly associated with the dark side of the feminine. If I catch myself sinking into jealousy and resentment, I have a tendency to mentally shake myself and force myself to snap out of it. Instinctively I know that giving into petty negative feelings is counterproductive and wont lead anywhere good. I fully embrace that Im probably a stereotypical good girl more then anything, and consider myself to be a lady with ethics and standards. Its something I wear like a badge of honor. Theres a lot of hyper-sexualized stuff in the media these days, and where once women were only pressured to be chaste and uptight, now there is actually quite a bit of social pressure out there to do just the opposite. Not form authorities and elders, but amongst peers in social settings. Well, I refuse to be a loose party girl that has one night stands no matter what. In a way, I think this is part of my rebellion. Im sticking to my standards regardless. This makes sense when you consider the fact that both my Liliths are in opposition to two important planets in my chart (Venus and the Sun) from my 7th house. On some level Ive probably used my Lilith positions to define myself as what I not, rather then what I am. I wouldnt consider myself a good girl in the sense of being naive and clueless, but rather because I have a pretty good idea of how destructive it can be when you act out the uncontrolled, dark urges of the Lilith archetype. Its like I have perspective on Lilith-like topics without actually involving myself in Lilith-like scenarios. One part of the Lilith archetype that I really relate to is the quest for secret knowledge and inside information. I love love love being able to perceive the inside scoop on things, and astrology allows me to do this. Also, my intuition is pretty sharp and I can often feel when its safe or when its dangerous to proceed. By nature Im rather nosey, and I like to understand where others are coming form. This part of the Lilith archetype I enjoy very much. I also think Lilith in my 7th house fits pretty well. I once saw a psychic who said that one of my past lives was as a women trapped in a harem, and that I hated it and longed for freedom. On some deep level I resonated with this and I think it might be true. Nataly, Im a Capricorn Sun with a stellium of planets in Sagittarius, ruled by Jupiter in early Cancer in the 7th house. It occurred to me that my explosion of planets in Sagittarius, and my Jupiter in the 7th house, was actually part of me breaking free from this controlled past life, especially in the area of marriage. Ive always had this determined, almost kind of self-righteous tendency, to not want to settle for less when it comes to marriage. I wouldnt cave and just do it for material reasons and social approval. Ive got nothing against marriage. In fact Id love to get married provided that the man in question is the right person for me. If he doesnt instinctively feel like the right person then I cant commit. I want to be madly in love, and have my husband as my best friend. Anything less then that is unacceptable. If this past life thing is true, this would explain my self-determination when it comes to finding the right person for me. Perhaps it stems form the painful experience of a forced marriage, where there was no choice but to be with a man not of my choosing. This life I must be with the man that I want, choose, and love, and I wouldn't allow myself to be pressured to do otherwise. All of this fits my Lilith in the 7th house pretty well. Im now in my 30s and Im still not married. Ive experienced a little bit of pressure from my family in regard to this. Its more in what they dont say, then in what they do say, if you catch my drift. Ive decided not to be upset at the slight hint of disapproval and worry that they have over me not yet finding a life mate. I think this is both my Liliths in the 7th house in action. Pressure from my family is not going to change my mind, or cause me to compromise, although sometimes it makes me a little sad. For some reason, deep inside, Im not that worried when it comes to myself. Ive always that the intuitive impression that after my long wait Id eventually find an amazing man, fall in love, and have a long and happy marriage. So heres hoping it gets here soon! (Cant help myself, my Sag planets are optimistic). Theres a Jane Austen quote I feel sums up what Im getting at here.
I am determined that nothing but the deepest love could ever induce me into matrimony.
Elizabeth Bennet, from Pride and Prejudice. I always resonated with that line. Another thing, I think the example of how Lilith works in my chart is a pretty good example of how Lilith can function in subtle ways. Its not always a case of people being or experiencing complete and total biatches! in that area of life (not that this doesnt happen sometimes). Liliths positions can simply be about sticking to your convictions even in the face of some obstacles, disapproval or controversy.
[/QUOTE] I couldn't have agreed with what you said more. Both my Mean bml(Scorpio) at the beginning of 7th and Osc lilith (Sagittarius)at the end of the 7th house opposite Venus as well. So I can definitely identify what you were saying when you mention marriage. Or being someone's possession. Since the new societal norm involves embracing a more hyper-sexual scandalous image, the opposition you speak of is the reason you don't identify with the typical Lilith description. By going against the norm your still defying societal expectations just as Lilith would. I wouldn't say I am a "Femme Fatale" but identify and recognize some of the darker parts of my psyche. But they don't have anything to do with other women, I rarely feel jealous of another person. I don't want another person's story I am creating my own. Within relationships and work I can see my Lilith's becoming more prominent. I am not comfortable with the idea of someone having authority over me unless I have the ability to reform things. The same goes for relationships, equal partnership, I can't see myself being someone's cheerleader for minimal actions either. The reasons I used all five Lilith's is because I don't think one placement encompasses the entire psyche of the Lilith archetype. Her primary essence is equality and if she can't receive equality through birth right then she'll defy and use her abilities to get things done.
IP: Logged |
Lotis White
Moderator Posts: 2216
From: USA
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted February 16, 2013 10:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ail221:
I couldn't have agreed with what you said more. Both my Mean bml(Scorpio) at the beginning of 7th and Osc lilith (Sagittarius)at the end of the 7th house opposite Venus as well. So I can definitely identify what you were saying when you mention marriage. Or being someone's possession.The reasons I used all five Lilith's is because I don't think one placement encompasses the entire psyche of the Lilith archetype. Her primary essence is equality and if she can't receive equality through birth right then she'll defy and use her abilities to get things done.
ail221, Awesome! The fact that you resonate with your Lilith 7th house placements too means that their must be something to this. Although, you might want to re-quote me. I did an edit and fixed all the weird symbols and mistakes in my post just now. IP: Logged |
thundered
Knowflake Posts: 68
From: Australia
Registered: Feb 2013
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posted February 17, 2013 04:39 AM
I think this one-sided traditional view of BML is outdated, the whole succubus-thing is just uncool  Like I said in my recent post, I have 5th aspects coming from my natal Lilith (it makes a trine with my Sun and Pluto). If the synastry I have with another person is any to go by.. Both of our Liliths are in 2nd house
Lilith trine his Juno
Lil sq his Jupiter/Saturn His Lilith trine Mercury On my end, the attraction is palpable and incredibly strong, I (without shame) fantasise about him all the time that it's pretty crazy and am quite surprised that upon the few times I met him that I didn't just make out with him in front of everyone Just looking at my previous relationships though, Lilith has either had some trine to Pluto or has also been a part of a grand trine. All of them had some obsession or possession to it; either from my end or their end. However all the relationships had some sort of 'mistrust' or omitting in the bedroom. It's hard to explain... I also think it can be a very strong little thing to have in synastry, that's just my opinion from my previous experiences in relationships IP: Logged |
anno_lucis
Knowflake Posts: 994
From: the atman
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted February 17, 2013 03:48 PM
all of mine are in 7th except 1181 which is conj uranus in 3rd by <1 degtight lilith/osc lilith/venus conj which trines uranus/1181 lilith ... triple whammy :/ and natural apogee lilith conj vertex <1 also in 7th house my SO's lilith conj my dsc exact... IP: Logged |
SaturnineMoth
Knowflake Posts: 2438
From: Gaea's Omphalos
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted February 17, 2013 04:02 PM
lol there's quite a few of us with Dsc house Liliths! <3 independent streak with our relationships to other people~ ^^; ne? maybe we all are comfortable on our own... something in common? aye!? IP: Logged |
ail221
Moderator Posts: 6951
From: Hanging Gardens of Babylon
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted February 19, 2013 09:32 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Orange:
I like Ails intepretation as well. My mean BML conjuncts Sun and DSC and i am a notorious rebel, since early childhood. I detest anyone telling me what to do. I always have had problems with authorities and i dont like the notion of being subordinate to any man.
My true BML is in the 6th house and makes only trines to Moon and Venus. Most of my rebelions happen at work, as i hate managers getting all bossy on me.
Coworkers are my problem, then again that could be my Pluto in the 6th IP: Logged |
anno_lucis
Knowflake Posts: 994
From: the atman
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted February 19, 2013 01:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:
lol there's quite a few of us with Dsc house Liliths! <3 independent streak with our relationships to other people~ ^^; ne? maybe we all are comfortable on our own... something in common? aye!?
yep. if only my asc and dsc rulers weren't both in 7th...i might be able to enjoy being single for longer than a nano second IP: Logged |
inaworldofsong
Knowflake Posts: 253
From:
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted February 21, 2013 12:51 PM
I think I relate a bit more to BML than osc. Lilith.Admittedly, "True" Lilith is retrograde in my chart and has very few aspects. BML, on the other hand... I don't even know WHAT it's doing to my natal chart. BML Taurus 1H
Square Mars Leo 5H exact
Opposite Jupiter/Mercury/Pluto/Juno Scorpio 7H (orbs between 1-3)
Trine Chiron Virgo 6H (orb 1.5)
Trine Uranus Capricorn 10H (orb 3)
Wide trine Neptune Capricorn 10H (orb 5) What am I supposed to do with you Lil? IP: Logged |
Orange
Knowflake Posts: 4984
From: Georgia
Registered: May 2009
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posted February 21, 2013 01:06 PM
^^^^ ride along with her. You don't have any other option anyway :-DIP: Logged |
vickymadness
Knowflake Posts: 2025
From: Minnesota
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted February 21, 2013 02:07 PM
I have transiting Lilith conjunct my natal moon . Natally it's oppo my mars, square sun, semi-square ASC, semi-sextile MC. Ofcourse all he aspects are below 2 orbs.Lilith-mars opposition gives me unshakable courage and bravado.
Although I have my mars in the 5th house , I've never been fond of being a mother. Infact, I've never considered the idea of having kids and never will :| IP: Logged |
vickymadness
Knowflake Posts: 2025
From: Minnesota
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted February 21, 2013 02:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
I'm curious on asteroid lilith too,
My sister had that conjunct her asc.
She uses her sexuality for all the wrong reasons.
Its like lack of respect for her self
I have asteroid lilith on my sun. I have my own definitiosn and philosophies ... and mostly they are not conventional. Although I have saturn widely conjunct the ascendant, my self - expression is not really repressed. Sometimes I can be sexual just for the heck of it and I have no intention whatsoever for manipulation. For me, it's just a form of self expression. IP: Logged |
peregrine
unregistered
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posted February 21, 2013 05:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by vickymadness:
Sometimes I can be sexual just for the heck of it and I have no intention whatsoever for manipulation. For me, it's just a form of self expression.
damn... IP: Logged |
Poupoupidou
Knowflake Posts: 82
From:
Registered: Oct 2015
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posted August 13, 2016 02:16 AM
***** Goddess? Surely not! People like to drag Lilith's reputation in the dirt, but I don't think it is necessarily deserved. Some people like to use reversed accusations.
IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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