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Author
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Topic: Virgo as Ishtar/Isis...mythology behind signs
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hikoro
Knowflake Posts: 1316
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 18, 2013 02:59 PM
  
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
Hikoro, no. It cannot be a crab. It's in the symbolism of the sign and I take these things literally. Virgo is the symbol of the woman because she is one. No one likes to give credit where credit is due, they want to take one sign's credit and give it to another that has no connection. A crab is not a goddess. A woman is.
The Goddess is the mother of all. a generatrix, therefore, cancer would fit her much better.
what virgo represents is highly different from what The Goddess mainly embodies. of course, the Goddess represents all, so, there is virgo in her, the same for the rest of the signs.
imo, analyzing things through the anthropomorphic lenses limits the vision and understanding of The Goddess. i think the Goddess goes beyond 'human looks and representations' otherwise....you may forget to take into consideration what she embodies beyond the material...
and Gods, go beyond the material, imo.
you know, not being able to see the forest for the trees thing.
regardless, i respect your view. IP: Logged |
hikoro
Knowflake Posts: 1316
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 18, 2013 03:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
Athena is a goddess lol, and mercury is a gender neutral planet anyways, so whatever reason you feel athena is masculine does not matter because of mercuries neutrality.
my mistake.
to clarify, if Athena were to be represented by a zodiac sign, it would be a masculine one. either fire or air. I just see her belonging more to the fire or air signs.
as to Mercury, i like it...as in, the Roman God.
Hermes or even Apollo, why not? IP: Logged |
Kerosene
unregistered
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posted May 18, 2013 03:11 PM
I ment the similarities between Virgo and Athena.
They both have the title of the virgin, Athena is also described as a youthful and beautiful maiden.
Also personality of Virgo is similar to Athena.
Both are logical and analytical, also athena tends to be very judgmental. She is the one that turned Medusa into a monster because she was offended by her beauty and submission.IP: Logged |
StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake Posts: 9169
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted May 18, 2013 03:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hikoro:
The Goddess is the mother of all. a generatrix, therefore, cancer would fit her much better.
what virgo represents is highly different from what The Goddess mainly embodies. of course, the Goddess represents all, so, there is virgo in her, the same for the rest of the signs.
imo, analyzing things through the anthropomorphic lenses limits the vision and understanding of The Goddess. i think the Goddess goes beyond 'human looks and representations' otherwise....you may forget to take into consideration what she embodies beyond the material...
and Gods, go beyond the material, imo.
you know, not being able to see the forest for the trees thing.
regardless, i respect your view.
It's two views, Hikoro, yours and mine. I think of Virgo as the only possible Goddess (as depicted in human form, not animal) in the Zodiac because of the fact she alone is the only woman depicted, Gemini being the possible except. The common view of that sign is Castor and Pollux, two brothers, not a man and woman, so it cannot qualify. There's Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius and Aquarius, all others are animals so they can be gods and goddesses in that form but the only human version of goddess depicted is Virgo. Due to its connection to the moon, Cancer is linked to motherhood and the womb, however, its more about the moon than the actual symbolism in the sign, the Crustacean. Cancer is a creature who lives in both the sea and on land, unlike the fish, so it is a bit more adaptable. It has a tough outer shell which it uses for defensive purposes, in other word's it is not easily defeated and is good at protecting itself. It has a strong survival instinct because it's an animal. Pinchers, like Scorpio, inflict pain so it is capable of fighting. Therefore, someone born with sun in Cancer will possess these traits on a basic level while someone born under a Virgo sun will be different, more humanized, less instinctual. The goddess represented here has more of a human element than an instinctual/survival one. This is why Cancer is a much tougher sign imo. Your view is much larger in scope but I like to get right down into literal interpretations and save the broader views for the luminaries and planets.
I am speaking in terms of the signs only, without their rulers, just the basic symbolism involved in each one, trying to isolate it from everything else.
So, I see your view as belonging to both signs and planets while mine is limited to just signs. IP: Logged |
hikoro
Knowflake Posts: 1316
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 18, 2013 03:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:Besides athena is the virgin and the goddess of wisdom which relates well with virgo. Also Athena completed in a legendary beauty contest which suggests that she is quite feminine and concerned with her beauty and vanity.
Athena is a virgin maiden, just like Diana and Hekate. for the Greeks, it meant unmarried, not necessarily virgin as the definition we have today.
she was born from her father and always sided with the men. thus, she is a defender of 'the father principle, the patriarchy.
it is true she participated in that contest, along with Hera, and Aphrodite. but, that does not mean, imo, she was concerned with beauty and vanity, at least, Athena is not known for that at all. it is the total opposite. she is an extrovert. she is highly connected with war, her wisdom goes to being used in the arts of war and conflicts, since, she is a strategist. she is also connected with the law.
those are the reasons i see her as being more air or fire, and cardinal.
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StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake Posts: 9169
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted May 18, 2013 03:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hikoro:
Athena is a virgin maiden, just like Diana and Hekate. for the Greeks, it meant unmarried, not necessarily virgin as the definition we have today.
she was born from her father and always sided with the men. thus, she is a defender of 'the father principle, the patriarchy.
it is true she participated in that contest, along with Hera, and Aphrodite. but, that does not mean, imo, she was concerned with beauty and vanity, at least, Athena is not known for that at all. it is the total opposite. she is an extrovert. she is highly connected with war, her wisdom goes to being used in the arts of war and conflicts, since, she is a strategist. she is also connected with the law.
those are the reasons i see her as being more air or fire, and cardinal.
Well, that's what Virgo is, the unmarried woman. Back then, she was supposed to be pure and chaste. There's a connection to Virgo and the cult of the Vestal Virgins as well. So what about Vesta? I haven't read up on her but it seems logical. Vesta is the Roman goddess of the sacred fire, to be brief and concise.
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Kerosene
unregistered
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posted May 18, 2013 03:27 PM
LOL yes here is so much vanity involved in beauty contests, obviously she must have done something to enhance her beauty like most women who compete in these contests. To even compete in this contest she must be concerned with own ego and vanity and how her subjects view her. All the greek gods were vain btw.Plus all gods and goddess are outgoing after all they're gods. They usually have influence over the land and law.
Besides the athenians appointed her representative of their city state.
Aphrodite is war goddess too but I don't think the greeks liked the contradiction between love and war. Anyways its only our opinions, do have any better candidates to represent virgo besides disagreeing with everyone else? IP: Logged |
hikoro
Knowflake Posts: 1316
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 18, 2013 03:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
Anyways its only our opinions, do have any better candidates to represent virgo besides disagreeing with everyone else?
there is no need to take things personally or be sensitive.
i like to think that all of us are adults here and can dialogue without getting our knickers in a twist.
but, if you feel that easily offended, then, there is not much that can be done.
i did mention some candidates already in my previous posts.
ceres-demeter, hermes and apollo. IP: Logged |
StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake Posts: 9169
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted May 18, 2013 03:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hikoro:
there is no need to take things personally or be sensitive.
i like to think that all of us are adults here and can dialogue without getting our knickers in a twist.
but, if you feel that easily offended, then, there is not much that can be done.
i did mention some candidates already in my previous posts.
ceres-demeter, hermes and apollo.
I don't know about Kerosene, I am not offended at all, Hikoro, in fact, I am glad you post because I like reading them. They are interesting and insightful. So when I argue, it's not because I dislike what you post, it's because you inspire me.
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hikoro
Knowflake Posts: 1316
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 18, 2013 03:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
There's a connection to Virgo and the cult of the Vestal Virgins as well. So what about Vesta? I haven't read up on her but it seems logical.Vesta is the Roman goddess of the sacred fire, to be brief and concise.
mm....Vesta.
i like it.
the thing is, she is associated with hearth and home.....can you see that in virgo?
or would that be more taurus?
on the other hand, she is a very old Goddess, and, accordingly, she was at the beginning, associated with the earth before she became the hearth-fire.
i like it though. i had thought about Vesta, actually...Hestia too. IP: Logged |
hikoro
Knowflake Posts: 1316
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 18, 2013 03:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
it's because you inspire me.
ok..im getting inspired by you too. 
thanks op for bringing up this topic.
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StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake Posts: 9169
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted May 18, 2013 03:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hikoro:
mm....Vesta.
i like it.
the thing is, she is associated with hearth and home.....can you see that in virgo?
or would that be more taurus?
on the other hand, she is a very old Goddess, and, accordingly, she was at the beginning, associated with the earth before she became the hearth-fire.
i like it though. i had thought about Vesta, actually...Hestia too.
I looked into Vesta a bit more and the Vestal Virgins. She is responsible for keeping the sacred fire alive which sounds like a task. Long ago, someone would have been inside the home, tending a fire while others were away, so the home would stay warm, food would get cooked. It sounds like a general way of expressing someone who has as duty to perform which is part of the Virgo definition, day to day tasks, work in general, and chores one does in order to make civilized life possible. Without the warmth of fire, the home is cold, people could freeze, life is more uncomfortable. There's the esoteric meaning of fire as spirit, too, which has a connection to Mercury as story teller, since, back then, oral tradition was more prevalent and people would share stories to keep "spirit" going, like myths and parables concerning religion, ethics, and conduct. IP: Logged |
hikoro
Knowflake Posts: 1316
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 18, 2013 04:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
Long ago, someone would have been inside the home, tending a fire while others were away, so the home would stay warm, food would get cooked. It sounds like a general way of expressing someone who has as duty to perform which is part of the Virgo definition, day to day tasks, work in general, and chores one does in order to make civilized life possible. Without the warmth of fire, the home is cold, people could freeze, life is more uncomfortable. There's the esoteric meaning of fire as spirit, too, which has a connection to Mercury as story teller, since, back then, oral tradition was more prevalent and people would share stories to keep "spirit" going, like myths and parables concerning religion, ethics, and conduct.
i like it, it does connect well with virgoan work duty. also, that hearth and connection to family is, in a way related to communication too. as in, linking everybody together.
her fires in the city can also be interpreted as being connected to communication. i thought about other Gods...
so...im going to go beyond Europa.  what about....Shinto? the Goddess Konohanasakuya-hime. she is a terrestrial earth-oriented Goddess but at the same time, graceful. association with sakura trees.
then, there is Toyouke-Omikami, who is associated with cultivation and agriculture..if we're specifying virgo and grains.
i think Konohanasakuya-hime is a very good candidate. if you can, look her up. there are also some interesting Gods of Africa, called the Orishas. Oxossi - he/she is the God/dess of the hunt, she/he is very solitary (a hermit), and, androgynous. i think that the fact that he/she lives in the wilderness is a problem, because virgo is connected to civilization, no? another thing i liked about this God/dess is that he-she is shamanistic, which connects to communication (even if it is with the spirits.) then, we have the son-daughter, whose name is Logun-Ede. he-she is the son-daughter of Oxossi and the Goddess of beauty, riches, love and vanity, Oshun.
Logun-Ede embodies characteristics of both of his-her parents, solitude and gracefulness. and, he-she lives six months as a man, and six months as a woman. there is also another androgynous deity i liked, Oxala. she/he is the deity of clarity and purity. reading about this, yes...i can see virgo here too.
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indigomoon8
Knowflake Posts: 283
From: chicago
Registered: Sep 2012
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posted May 18, 2013 05:14 PM
From the articles i read they represent every mother goddess of a society to Virgo because she is a virgin in an independent not sexual way. I feel the Isis Ishtar myths even sometimes Artemis goddess correlations are correct. Virgo is a mutable sign = versatile and many personalities. Like persephone being an earth deitt or queen of the underworld. She is a nurturer the end of summer when crops are ripe to feed the land thus connected to queen goddesses of civilizations. A woman or "mother goddess" symbol they make Virgo probrably doesn't even need a base planet for she has the universe and bits and parts of every place. For me personally im a virgo sun/ asc and gemini moon and mercury really says NOTHING about my personality except intelligence. I suck a communication, im introverted, not too social and what not. Yes Im down to earth but nothing is more closer to me than my love of the ocean ! IP: Logged |
indigomoon8
Knowflake Posts: 283
From: chicago
Registered: Sep 2012
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posted May 18, 2013 05:18 PM
http://goddessinspired.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/virgo-the-goddess-august-23-to-september-22/ I love this article IP: Logged |
hikoro
Knowflake Posts: 1316
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 18, 2013 05:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by indigomoon8:
http://goddessinspired.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/virgo-the-goddess-august-23-to-sep tember-22/ I love this article
some things in the article are nice, the description on virgo is interesting though..but, it is a feel good article, after all.
but..i dunno. it is a very funky view, really, historically speaking.
i mean, there wasnt a maiden-mother-crone archetype among the ancients. this triune concept is actually from modern Wicca, which is a religion from the late 1940s..inspired by Robert Graves' the white goddess.
and, in terms of matriarchy vs patriarchy (still debatable), ancient athens was very patriarchal, even with Goddesses in the pantheon.
im not stating that there is nothing wrong with these views, but, some of the things in the article are not founded in ancient civilizations at all...which is confusing. and...the info on Freya is so inaccurate. im shocked. purple is spiritual power. mastery, either spiritually or in magic.
personally, i would associate virgo with either yellow or white.
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StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake Posts: 9169
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted May 18, 2013 06:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by indigomoon8:
http://goddessinspired.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/virgo-the-goddess-august-23-to-sep tember-22/ I love this article
 IP: Logged |
ElfinPisces
Knowflake Posts: 48
From: Chilé
Registered: Apr 2022
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posted April 08, 2022 10:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
As far as Ishtar goes, she's connected to Venus, so wouldn't that put her with Taurus and Libra more than Virgo?
Libra is Themis goddess of justice and Taurus is the bull Zeus used to seduce.....
Virgo is known as Ishtar cos she is the Queen of heaven equivalent to mother Mary and also known as the sacred prostitute IP: Logged |
ElfinPisces
Knowflake Posts: 48
From: Chilé
Registered: Apr 2022
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posted April 08, 2022 10:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
As far as Ishtar goes, she's connected to Venus, so wouldn't that put her with Taurus and Libra more than Virgo?
Libra is Themis goddess of justice and Taurus is the bull Zeus used to seduce.....
Virgo is known as Ishtar cos she is the Queen of heaven equivalent to mother Mary and also known as the sacred prostitute IP: Logged |
ElfinPisces
Knowflake Posts: 48
From: Chilé
Registered: Apr 2022
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posted April 08, 2022 10:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
but I think the virgin goddess Athena would be better for virgo.
I know she isn't as glamourous as aphrodite or Ishtar.
Virgo is about innocence, purity , receptivity, so yes she suites Ishtar well , although our constellation is about Aphrodite and Eros IP: Logged |
ElfinPisces
Knowflake Posts: 48
From: Chilé
Registered: Apr 2022
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posted April 08, 2022 10:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hikoro:
which Goddess?
do you say this because virgo is represented by a human...a woman?
if there was ever a representation of the Goddess based on zodiac signs - as in, if we are referring to the entity inspired by venus of willendorf, and principal in Modern Goddess Worship, it would be cancer.
but, i find the term 'The Goddess' very simplistic and limiting anyway. too monolithic.
WHY DO YOU SOUND HURT ? Lol before I started to read about my sun sign Pisces , I read about my rising sign Virgo and truly it is the epitome of all goddesses and womanhood IP: Logged |
ElfinPisces
Knowflake Posts: 48
From: Chilé
Registered: Apr 2022
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posted April 08, 2022 10:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
Athena is a goddess lol, and mercury is a gender neutral planet anyways, so whatever reason you feel athena is masculine does not matter because of mercuries neutrality.
I never thought was that virgo was that feminine anyways, its cold and barren, venus is debilitated and the moon does not thrive in virgo either.Besides athena is the virgin and the goddess of wisdom which relates well with virgo. Also Athena completed in a legendary beauty contest which suggests that she is quite feminine and concerned with her beauty and vanity.
The moon is Virgo’s esoteric ruler , Inanna which is also Venus was the first goddess associated with Virgo , Virgo is a very feminine sign whether you agree or not , like who doesn’t know it’s a feminine sign , who cares whether it’s barren or not , that doesn’t count , Virgo doesn’t just represent goddesses, it represents archetypal feminine energy , is it because it’s ruled by mercury? My sign is ruled by Jupiter a masculine planet , would you say we’re less feminine? Y’all need to stop beating yourself up over a zodiac sign created by Babylonians, maybe you should go butt heads with them rather than dishing out hate on my sister sign IP: Logged |
ElfinPisces
Knowflake Posts: 48
From: Chilé
Registered: Apr 2022
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posted April 08, 2022 10:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
LOL yes here is so much vanity involved in beauty contests, obviously she must have done something to enhance her beauty like most women who compete in these contests. To even compete in this contest she must be concerned with own ego and vanity and how her subjects view her. All the greek gods were vain btw.Plus all gods and goddess are outgoing after all they're gods. They usually have influence over the land and law.
Besides the athenians appointed her representative of their city state.
Aphrodite is war goddess too but I don't think the greeks liked the contradiction between love and war. Anyways its only our opinions, do have any better candidates to represent virgo besides disagreeing with everyone else?
Aren’t you being irrational to start a war over a zodiac symbol ? No matter what you say or do to oppose that Virgo is associated with all goddesses will be a big waste of time because it is boldly written even on google that Virgo represents the Mesopotamian goddess of beauty and Ishtar which are the ole senior generation of Venus and Aphrodite, just accept it and stop fighting over nothing cos you can’t change what has already been made , Venus debilitation is because Virgo has a picky and dainty approach to love while my sign is more accepting and in scientific research , women are the picky ones so 💁🏼♀️, when the moon is in Virgo it is very comfortable and safe because Virgo possess the traits of the moon , innocent, receptive , helpful, kind , soft , gentle , irritable , absorbing, cold , passive , so sorry to hurt your feelings, VIRGO IS THE SIGN ASSOCIATED TO FEMININITY IP: Logged |
ElfinPisces
Knowflake Posts: 48
From: Chilé
Registered: Apr 2022
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posted April 08, 2022 10:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hikoro:
i like it, it does connect well with virgoan work duty. also, that hearth and connection to family is, in a way related to communication too. as in, linking everybody together.
her fires in the city can also be interpreted as being connected to communication. i thought about other Gods...
so...im going to go beyond Europa. what about....Shinto? the Goddess Konohanasakuya-hime. she is a terrestrial earth-oriented Goddess but at the same time, graceful. association with sakura trees.
then, there is Toyouke-Omikami, who is associated with cultivation and agriculture..if we're specifying virgo and grains.
i think Konohanasakuya-hime is a very good candidate. if you can, look her up. there are also some interesting Gods of Africa, called the Orishas. Oxossi - he/she is the God/dess of the hunt, she/he is very solitary (a hermit), and, androgynous. i think that the fact that he/she lives in the wilderness is a problem, because virgo is connected to civilization, no? another thing i liked about this God/dess is that he-she is shamanistic, which connects to communication (even if it is with the spirits.) then, we have the son-daughter, whose name is Logun-Ede. he-she is the son-daughter of Oxossi and the Goddess of beauty, riches, love and vanity, Oshun.
Logun-Ede embodies characteristics of both of his-her parents, solitude and gracefulness. and, he-she lives six months as a man, and six months as a woman. there is also another androgynous deity i liked, Oxala. she/he is the deity of clarity and purity. reading about this, yes...i can see virgo here too.
The birthday of oshun is September 8th or 12th I think
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ElfinPisces
Knowflake Posts: 48
From: Chilé
Registered: Apr 2022
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posted April 08, 2022 10:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hikoro:
i like it, it does connect well with virgoan work duty. also, that hearth and connection to family is, in a way related to communication too. as in, linking everybody together.
her fires in the city can also be interpreted as being connected to communication. i thought about other Gods...
so...im going to go beyond Europa. what about....Shinto? the Goddess Konohanasakuya-hime. she is a terrestrial earth-oriented Goddess but at the same time, graceful. association with sakura trees.
then, there is Toyouke-Omikami, who is associated with cultivation and agriculture..if we're specifying virgo and grains.
i think Konohanasakuya-hime is a very good candidate. if you can, look her up. there are also some interesting Gods of Africa, called the Orishas. Oxossi - he/she is the God/dess of the hunt, she/he is very solitary (a hermit), and, androgynous. i think that the fact that he/she lives in the wilderness is a problem, because virgo is connected to civilization, no? another thing i liked about this God/dess is that he-she is shamanistic, which connects to communication (even if it is with the spirits.) then, we have the son-daughter, whose name is Logun-Ede. he-she is the son-daughter of Oxossi and the Goddess of beauty, riches, love and vanity, Oshun.
Logun-Ede embodies characteristics of both of his-her parents, solitude and gracefulness. and, he-she lives six months as a man, and six months as a woman. there is also another androgynous deity i liked, Oxala. she/he is the deity of clarity and purity. reading about this, yes...i can see virgo here too.
The birthday of oshun is September 8th or 12th I think
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