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Author Topic:   What planetary influences most effect global economy?
Jkitty
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posted August 18, 2013 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've seen a lot of cultural changes over the course of my 1/2 century on this planet! I remember a time when credit was rarely used except for mortgages and people saved for what they wanted. This has obviously changed radically. Now it seems like the economy is fueled by a general, cultural lack of impulse control. What would happen to our economy if the majority of people showed more restraint in their eating, spending and sexual behavior? And things like the mortgage meltdown, tech bubble, and general stock market behavior point to "group think", so it must be a generational or transpersonal planet that is behind all this. But which one(s)?

It seems to me like in the past, the culture has been much more "Saturnine" in their spending behavior and the economy reflected that. Now it's much more free, but not necessarily in an optimistic "Jupiter" way. It's undergone some radical changes in behavior (Uranus?) and been transformed (Pluto) and many things have become illusive (Neptune?) like the idea of a secure retirement. Even things like healthcare have changed from the idea of "taking care of your health" to the idea of medical intervention for health problems at least some of which are the result of a loosening of self restraint.

If you'd like to brainstorm this topic and share your thoughts and ideas/insights, I'd love to listen to your take on things! Please share your ASTROLOGICAL ideas about what influences are behind these changes.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted August 18, 2013 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bubbles could be Neptune and Uranian in nature since they are not based on false market stability and rise quickly.
If it were not for bubbles, growth would be much slower, the economy would be smaller. A housing boom can bring a lot of money and growth to a region, spurring a local economy. Better save for when the bubble bursts because money could be scarce for a while.

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socialgraffiti
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posted August 18, 2013 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for socialgraffiti     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
that's an interesting note:

I think pluto would be the closest representation, because pluto represents power, which the world's econ is based upon. also, pluto has a more subtle, but penetrating influence, just like how the shifts of the econ affect the way we spend, what our beliefs are, etc.

on that note, ever since pluto went into capricorn, saturnine ways of managing money have been popularized, like the austerity measures in britain, as opposed to pluto in sagittarius where money was used popularly for traveling and college (or higher forms of education).

i think that the other generational planets can have a huge impact on the econ as well, but are shown most directly when in aspect to pluto.
for instance, when uranus squared pluto recently, in america, there was a huge scandal over the IRS and taxes in general, leading to a bunch of reform measures on that :x

uranus' speciality is through big breakthroughs in an y field, I'd think, but with the increasing dependence on technology, uranus has a bigger impact than ever

neptune is more reflective of what that generation has as ideals, their culture, and their lifestyle

that's just my interpretation though

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Jkitty
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posted August 18, 2013 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@SSS,
I detect some Jupiter in those bubbles. The way they "expand", the way that people who buy before it gets too big feel "lucky" when they see the paper profits, the "optimism" of thinking it's never going to pop, all seem very much like Jupiter to me.

Perhaps Neptune is involved in that "illusion" as well, in the hypnotic sense that "all is well". And then Uranus might bring the sudden "shock" when the market corrects. I think that Uranus must have been involved in the Dot-Com bubble and the tech bubble. But what about the mortgage melt down?

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted August 18, 2013 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh yeah Jupiter. I was thinking transpersonal but collectively, it would be Jupiter when the bubbles are rising and people are benefiting on many levels. The bubbles (collective and transpersonal) affect people's luminaries and personal planets depending on what they are doing. People benefit or lose. Economic downturn is Saturn, of course.

Complete financial collapse and starting from scratch is Plutonian.

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Jkitty
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posted August 18, 2013 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@SG,
I can see what you mean by the Pluto influence. There is definitely a secretive, manipulating-behind-the-scenes, aspect to the global economy such as the IMF pressures that resulted in those austerity measures. It's just that I think it's more complicated than that, too. But Pluto is a VERY important part of this puzzle. I'd say Pluto represents the "big money" powers that manipulate the economy.

And it makes sense that Pluto in Sagittarius (ruled by Jupiter) would have resulted in so much loose credit and free spending that now needs the "correction" of Pluto in Capricorn (ruled by Saturn) with all the austerity measures.

Very good points!

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Kerosene
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posted August 18, 2013 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kerosene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
all the outer planets have influence.
Especially jupiter pluto and saturn.

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Jkitty
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posted August 18, 2013 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So what do you think will happen when Pluto enters Aquarius in 2024? Pluto in Sag (Jupiter) was more expansive and optimistic. Pluto in Cap (Saturn) is more restraining and austere. Aquarius is ruled by Uranus AND Saturn by tradition. That combination does NOT sound good to me (and I'm an Aquarius)! Perhaps a technological transformation that leads to a repressive regime? Uranus is so unpredictable.

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Jkitty
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posted August 18, 2013 04:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So what do you think will happen when Pluto enters Aquarius in 2024? Pluto in Sag (Jupiter) was more expansive and optimistic. Pluto in Cap (Saturn) is more restraining and austere. Aquarius is ruled by Uranus AND Saturn by tradition. That combination does NOT sound good to me (and I'm an Aquarius)! Perhaps a technological transformation that leads to a repressive regime? Uranus is so unpredictable.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted August 18, 2013 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm optimistic (Mercury/Jupiter/Uranus conjunction right on my ascendant) and I just know there's going to be a tremendous tech boom like none we have ever seen when Pluto reaches Aqua. It will be a golden age of discovery and advancement. We could even discover complex life on other planets then.

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Jkitty
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posted August 18, 2013 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
I'm optimistic (Mercury/Jupiter/Uranus conjunction right on my ascendant) and I just know there's going to be a tremendous tech boom like none we have ever seen when Pluto reaches Aqua. It will be a golden age of discovery and advancement. We could even discover complex life on other planets then.

I hope you're right. I don't want a techno-enabled "Big Brother" government making it financially tough on people who disagree with those in control.

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slowpoke
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posted August 18, 2013 05:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slowpoke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A good way to judge the current economy and World affairs is to get the aspects of a natal chart of someone born today (818.13). Any aspects to the slow planets in particular, will suggest current state of affairs.

In this case, what I see are Aug. 18, 2013 Natal aspects current aspects to Pluto.

Departing = aspect is moving away from exact position
Approaching = aspect is moving into the exact position

NN departing sextile with Pluto
JP departing opposition with Pluto
SA approaching sextile with Pluto
UR departing Square with Pluto
NP approaching sextil with Pluto


The elements that represent the masses are the North Node, Jupiter and, Pluto.

Uranus squaring Pluto is sandwiched right in the middle of the NN, JP and, P. Uranus represents the culprit, as it is Square both JP (growth) and P (death and resurrection of society).

Uranus represents radical change and technology advancements. It has been from the radical change in technology (computers and mass communication devices) that have spurred on the unprecedented change on a global scale. Computers were used by bankers to create unsafe securities that they sold to financial institutions World wide, this lead to almost bringing the global financial system down. The Internet at this time, has loosely governing rules that are not adequately securing governments sensitive documents. Economies are breaking down because Internet sales of goods and services are circumventing tax obligations forcing townships, municipalities, cities, counties and, state governments into huge working capital short falls. This forces governments to try and figure how to balance their budgets and to cut cost wherever they can. And this in turn, leads into government people getting fired from their jobs. The governments can no longer purchase goods and services from commerce. Commerce (free market businesses) are then force to cut jobs because of lower revenue.


Around 2020 Uranus will be clearing the square with Pluto. Ideally, World issues will be solved and the World will be heading into a slow growth period of better times.


I think.

Slowpoke

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted August 18, 2013 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Problem is, most people dislike slow growth :/
When growth is slow, less people make money. Everything has it's downside, it seems. It might not seem that bad unless you are denied opportunity because of "slow growth." Then it hurts. There are no easy answers.

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slowpoke
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posted August 18, 2013 06:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slowpoke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I once met an athlete, who was upset about how long it might take his injury to heal. The healing process has to take time and run its course. Rush it, and the injury may become a permanent one.

A new born baby can not grow any faster than it is meant to grow.

The World is a complicated place, it will never have a utopia. Slow growth, is a safe growth. And then, when we reach maximum capacity growth, the successes established will be real, solid and, long lasting because they will not be built from sand castles.


slowpoke

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Jkitty
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posted August 18, 2013 06:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slowpoke:
Around 2020 Uranus will be clearing the square with Pluto. Ideally, World issues will be solved and the World will be heading into a slow growth period of better times.

I think.

Slowpoke


Interesting analysis, Slowpoke! But what about when Pluto enters Aquarius which is ruled by Uranus? That will happen in 2024. So if you're right about Pluto getting away from the aspect in Uranus leading to better times, just 4 years later Pluto is once again in SOME kind of relationship with Uranus. Wouldn't Pluto in Uranus's house actually make for a long period of more economic instability? Maybe the current square is just a "sneak preview" of what's to come?

I'd like to understand this. The more you know, the more prepared you are, the better to position yourself for the road ahead.

I think being completely debt free would be a good place to start. A strong work ethic (increased competition for jobs since technology will allow people from around the world to compete in our job markets) and a variety of job skills would also be wonderful. And anyone who is dependent on a government for income or support will need to try and get out of that situation if possible.

I'm afraid investments will be in for a wild ride. I hate the thought of being retired (or about to be or hoping to be) at that time, if this is true. No Social Security (cause that's a dead dog already) AND no retirement benefits (if the plans aren't solvent) AND no income from investments (because of companies failing)? I'd rather not go there! Hopefully, I'm wrong!

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted August 18, 2013 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jkitty:
Interesting analysis, Slowpoke! But what about when Pluto enters Aquarius which is ruled by Uranus? That will happen in 2024. So if you're right about Pluto getting away from the aspect in Uranus leading to better times, just 4 years later Pluto is once again in SOME kind of relationship with Uranus. Wouldn't Pluto in Uranus's house actually make for a long period of more economic instability? Maybe the current square is just a "sneak preview" of what's to come?

I'd like to understand this. The more you know, the more prepared you are, the better to position yourself for the road ahead.

I think being completely debt free would be a good place to start. A strong work ethic (increased competition for jobs since technology will allow people from around the world to compete in our job markets) and a variety of job skills would also be wonderful. And anyone who is dependent on a government for income or support will need to try and get out of that situation if possible.

I'm afraid investments will be in for a wild ride. I hate the thought of being retired (or about to be or hoping to be) at that time, if this is true. No Social Security (cause that's a dead dog already) AND no retirement benefits (if the plans aren't solvent) AND no income from investments (because of companies failing)? I'd rather not go there! Hopefully, I'm wrong!



I have this weird belief technology will drastically alter the way we live in a short period of time. You won't even recognize it.

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Jkitty
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posted August 18, 2013 10:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
I have this weird belief technology will drastically alter the way we live in a short period of time. You won't even recognize it.

I don't think that's weird at all. I've seen such amazing changes in my life. Space travel? Computers? Wireless communication? Stuff of science fiction! The first manned space flight happened in my life time. The "computers" that existed used cathode ray tubes and transistors.

But if you're expecting that technology will "fix" problems, be forewarned that every solved problem creates unimaginable new ones! Who ever would have thought that satellites would result in problems of space debris? Or that plastics would cause environmental problems? Or that fertilizers would cause algae blooms?

No, there is absolutely nothing weird about the idea that technology will drastically alter things! Do I think things are BETTER now? No. Just different ... and changing at an increasingly rapid pace. A child who enters kindergarten this year will probably find that all the technology he's using now will be obsolete by the time he's out of elementary school. That's a scary thought. No chance of rest. The job you train for may not exist by the time you graduate from college or trade school and almost certainly won't exist by the time the student loans are paid.

Sigh. This is waaaaay too depressing for me! I didn't mean for this thread to be such a downer.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted August 18, 2013 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jkitty:

Sigh. This is waaaaay too depressing for me! I didn't mean for this thread to be such a downer.



I'm the opposite TOTAL optimist about the future and not depressed at all. It's where the hope is. If you can imagine it, it's possible.

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Jkitty
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posted August 18, 2013 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
I'm the opposite TOTAL optimist about the future and not depressed at all. It's where the hope is. If you can imagine it, it's possible.

Well, I could certainly use more optimism about the future. I admit I was excited about the future and technological advances when I was younger. (Hey, when I was in elementary school, the idea of a "fax machine" sounded really cool! Imagine being able to transmit printed information over telephone wires! What other amazing things might the future hold! The reality was that people suddenly expected so much more from an office worker and instead of making things easier, it actually resulted in having to do MORE work.)

I need to re-experience the optimism I had when I was young. Please regale me with tales of bright and happy futures. I'll just sit back and listen without comment. I'll let your optimism wash over me. Maybe some of my cynicism will come off.

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Jkitty
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posted August 18, 2013 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL OMG! I just realized I've got natal Uranus quincunx Saturn and T. Sun is on my Uranus right now! No WONDER I'm feeling so cynical about technology!

I don't think I've really understood that quincunx in my chart before now!

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted August 18, 2013 11:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jkitty, you are saying you don't think your life is easier because of computers? I couldn't live without mine! I absolutely am grateful for this slice of technology, and cable television, the microwave, mobile phones. I love all this stuff. I want MORE stuff like this, BETTER! I am a total gadget fanatic. I welcome all of it.
My dream is to have my personal cyborg human kinetic robotic android.

I have the biquintile between Saturn and Uranus

Maybe this explains my craving for more advancements in high tech?

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Jkitty
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posted August 19, 2013 12:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
Jkitty, you are saying you don't think your life is easier because of computers

I'd say it's easier in some ways and more difficult in others. I remember a time when people had to sit down together and have face-to-face conversations to discuss things like this! We could be sitting somewhere cozy and enjoying a nice chat over a tasty beverage. But now with all the technology, how long do you think it would last before we got interrupted or distracted by our gadgets? I think that's why suicide rates among young people are so much higher now. They feel so lonely and anonymous and disconnected from humanity at large -- not enough "skin" time IMO.

Plus you have issues like the increased demand for electricity (most of which is still generated by "dirty" means unlike what most people think) and problems with electronic waste from all those obsolete discarded gadgets. Your generation will have to pay some prices for all this dependence on technology that I think very few of you really consider.

We humans historically only become aware of the problems a couple of generations AFTER the technology becomes widespread. Did people back in the 1930-1950s have ANY idea that the "agricultural revolution" with all the dependence on chemical fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides would have such devastating effects on our health and environment? No! They were clueless. Worse, they were so enthusiastic thinking this would put an end to world hunger that they embraced the changes wholeheartedly. But it hasn't ended hunger and now we have other issues ON TOP of so much of the world still not having enough basic food to survive.

But each new generation sees the "sins" of the forefathers while being completely blind to the new problems that we're creating in our present time.

On the other hand. WITH technology we can communicate in a global community and I really DO enjoy getting to discuss astrology with people in other countries and time zones.

I see technology itself as very neutral -- neither a good thing nor a bad thing. But what do people do with it? That makes all the difference. And humans are notoriously short-sighted in realizing problems when in the grip of enthusiasm. We're functioning in the age of Aquarius while still operating in the age of Aries. I think I detect Neptune's influence in that.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted August 19, 2013 01:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jkitty:
I'd say it's easier in some ways and more difficult in others. I remember a time when people had to sit down together and have face-to-face conversations to discuss things like this! We could be sitting somewhere cozy and enjoying a nice chat over a tasty beverage. But now with all the technology, how long do you think it would last before we got interrupted or distracted by our gadgets? I think that's why suicide rates among young people are so much higher now. They feel so lonely and anonymous and disconnected from humanity at large -- not enough "skin" time IMO.

It can be a problem - too much time spent online. This is why people use social media like Facebook to plan their gatherings. It's actually a lot easier to have a party because of Facebook since you can let everyone on your friend list know about it and they can all stop by your house. It helps people be more social, face to face, imo. The problem lies in people who use the internet to bully and spend too much time online.
As far as research goes, internet is a huge help there. All this info right at your fingertips! It's truly out-of-this-world. I wouldn't want it any other way and hope it will continually improve, just no more smart keyboards, please. Some things can actually get worse with innovation, like you said. I disagree with innovating for a paycheck's sake, the result being something less functional, parking lots are prime example.

quote:
Plus you have issues like the increased demand for electricity (most of which is still generated by "dirty" means unlike what most people think) and problems with electronic waste from all those obsolete discarded gadgets. Your generation will have to pay some prices for all this dependence on technology that I think very few of you really consider.

My optimism shows in regard to these situations. Humanity can come up with feasible solutions to these problems, all is not lost. Every generation thinks it's the lost one and yet they continue. Human species is capable of thinking themselves to a dark place by being too negative, insisting it cannot be done. I believe in the law of attraction and visualizing what you want your world to be like. Humans can will their existence imo.

quote:
We humans historically only become aware of the problems a couple of generations AFTER the technology becomes widespread. Did people back in the 1930-1950s have ANY idea that the "agricultural revolution" with all the dependence on chemical fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides would have such devastating effects on our health and environment? No! They were clueless. Worse, they were so enthusiastic thinking this would put an end to world hunger that they embraced the changes wholeheartedly. But it hasn't ended hunger and now we have other issues ON TOP of so much of the world still not having enough basic food to survive.

Not completely clueless. Situations are inevitable because nothing is perfect but we have come a long way and will continue to progress. No one can promise a completely Utopian existence but we can tackle issues when they arise. It's wise to acknowledge and solve, not pretend they don't exist for whatever reason, profit margins, for example.
quote:
But each new generation sees the "sins" of the forefathers while being completely blind to the new problems that we're creating in our present time.

We are aware of these sins and are attempting to address them. The answer is not pushing ourselves into a new dark age where all forward motion stops, imo.

quote:
On the other hand. WITH technology we can communicate in a global community and I really DO enjoy getting to discuss astrology with people in other countries and time zones.

And one day we might be discussing all kinds of astrologies from all over the galaxy with countless inhabitants of distant worlds thanks to our ability to travel to distant solar systems.

quote:
I see technology itself as very neutral -- neither a good thing nor a bad thing. But what do people do with it? That makes all the difference. And humans are notoriously short-sighted in realizing problems when in the grip of enthusiasm. We're functioning in the age of Aquarius while still operating in the age of Aries. I think I detect Neptune's influence in that.

You are focusing on faults, lol. I like to see the bright side as opposed to the negative. Life is never perfect. You think it is soooo bad now, go back 2000 years to when Jesus supposedly walked the earth, you will think it's so much better now than it was then. It's "grass is always greener" thinking. People tend to believe they have it worse while all other generations had it better and their generation is hopelessly blind and destined to fail yet life goes on and we continue to progress. As long as we engage in this process, we will find ways to deal with waste and energy shortages. In fact, it will give others something to do. So long as people have a mission in life, they seem fulfilled. So, it goes hand in hand, solving these problems and personal fulfillment, so it's not bad.

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Jkitty
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posted August 19, 2013 01:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jkitty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also love the research element! To have so much information so easily accessible IS wonderful!

I agree that there are many wonderful things about current technology. LASIK is one that I wouldn't want to be without.

I can hear your Jupiter conjunct Uranus loud and clear. Hopefully, when Mars is no longer opposing my Saturn, I'll be back to my cheerier self.

1/2 full AND 1/2 empty. I don't view change as either good or bad. In some ways (most ways really), I wouldn't want to go back, but it's not the technology so much as the change in philosophy. More equality among races and sexes is GREAT. Still has a ways to go, but much improved during my lifetime.

In other ways . . . maybe our priorities were better? I think it was easier to be able to base things on survival (not just your own, but the viability of your family, community, group). Now at days, it seems to be more about what "feels good" at the moment. We're no longer concerned about making it through the winter if we use up our food stores on a 2nd helping, or if we can feed another child if we give in to our sexuality, so things are much more vague now, much more self-absorbed and pleasure based. People didn't divorce because it was a bad move survival-wise. But that doesn't mean I'd want to go back to that way of life!

I just think that as a global culture, we need to cultivate more forethought and self-restraint. We've lost SO much when it comes to self-control just in my life time. THAT part is really sad to me; I think it ends up hurting a lot of people.

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