posted October 14, 2013 08:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
It helps if the planet in the 12th house has stabilizing sound aspects to other planets outside the 12th house, as this helpe raising an awareness of what is going on underneath, though it still might be tricky to resolve this.

Actually I think that is contraproductive to the 12th house symbolism; as Starlight said it is about acceptance and I want to add about surrender.
Accept that there are things our rational mind can`t grasp.

---

posted October 14, 2013 08:42 PM            

It's brings up some if your own personal issues, that you must learn to see, deal with and accept...

That's the hard part...

posted October 14, 2013 08:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lioness:
My experience with h12 has been about self undoing.

It's brings up some if your own personal issues, that you must learn to see, deal with and accept...

That's the hard part...

But misunderstandings are also unavoidable...
You think your being completely clear, just the other person perceives it completely different and you have nooo clue that there is even a misunderstanding going on...

---

Yep. I've told people, just matter of factly and helpfully, before assuming just ask. I'm aware of misunderstandings and make them aware too.
In day to day life with friends, coworkers, etc it's never a problem.

posted October 14, 2013 09:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Okay, we've done a lot of whinging on the subject; now it's time we do some resolving.

How do you think it'd be best to resolve the synastric 12H issues? Rulers? House placement of rulers? Closer analysis of both the planet and the state of the 12H?

These seem logical.

Wanna give it a go?

---

I read some of your story in the other thread, and yours is similar to mine.. The whole working together t and the never ending battle...
Honestly I've been going through it for 3 years now... I can say there is no solution to this madness... Lol.

I have been working extra hard, to move forward.. I'm dating and doing my thing, even though we still speak everyday..
We talk everyday on our drive home, but we have limited it to just that...

I guess it's like what ceri said, you have to surrender to the way it is...
I have accepted it is what it is, we talk, fight, make up,
But we never loose the connection...
It is what it is!!!
I just had to face it
(Still working on it)

But good luck. .

posted October 14, 2013 10:41 PM            

There were 2 people that have had planets in my 12th house that things haven't worked quite well with in the end but I wouldn't consider them overly confusing or anything along those lines. Both I just stopped talking to because I found out they were saying things 'behind my back' and both admitted of being jealous (oddly for the same reasons). Apology not accepted. Both were their Sun and Mercury in my 12th house.

Other than those 2, my best friend for years moon is in my 12th and my mars is in their 12th. I'm not sure if because of the flip my moon is in their 5th house and their mars is in my 5th house that it balances out or the crazy 12th house stellium natally, but this has been the only person I have had completely smooth communication with both personal and with hobbies. So far, it's the person I have been able to get along with the best in my life. It is mutual.

My Mercury end up in my SO 12th house. My issues with him are never communication based. It's been years and I still haven't seen this play out in a negative way.

Someone I work closely with has Sun and Venus in my 12th. We work well together. So far from what I noticed is when we are in a group scenario, nothing I say goes unnoticed or goes over her head at all. I haven't known her as long as the first 2 tho.

Those are the best examples I have at the top of my head. I'm not sure if I just like people playing in my 12th house but all of the post I'm reading are making me nervous.

For me, so far being very clear with communication seems to help big time. I'm thinking it might be due to Gemini being my 12th house ruler? Maybe what rules the 12th house and main themes for the sign ruling the house may give a key to how to handle 12th house synastry properly.

posted October 14, 2013 11:10 PM            

His asc, Sun, and mercury are in my 12th (his sun and mercury are in his 12th)
My sun is in his 12th (I have mercury Mars venus in my 12th)
I haven't looked at all aspects but I did notice that our moons are conjunct
My Venus right on his asc but in his 1st house.
It's just the way the house cusps worked out.

We never EVER have even small issues. Our minds seem like they are United.... It's crazy.

posted October 14, 2013 11:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zander916:
My best friend of over 30 years (since we were young children)

His asc, Sun, and mercury are in my 12th (his sun and mercury are in his 12th)
My sun and mercury is in his 12th (I have mercury Mars venus in my 12th)
I haven't looked at all aspects but I did notice that our moons are conjunct
My Venus right on his asc and Mars only a couple more degrees but in his 1st house.
It's just the way the house cusps worked out.

We never EVER have even small issues. Our minds seem like they are United.... It's crazy.

---

posted October 14, 2013 11:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
You sum it up wonderfully, Indigo! I love your descriptions, they are always full of life and right on target! It is like waking up to something else entirely different and not exactly real.

The first instinct is to run and vanish as soon as I open the door.

---

Thank you! That's exactly how it is for me. And, sadly, how I want to react to it as well. Deep down, I want to try - I want to be stronger than that - but the fear is palpable.

posted October 15, 2013 03:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 12muddy:
I have tendency to keep things to myself, thinking "What they don't know won't hurt them, I'll just spare their feelings". But nah, to quote the amazing Littlefinger "What you don't know kills you". So yah for me, the best solution has been honesty and communicate. The 12th house puts a foggy veil on everything. Honesty inspires trust, and clears the fog.

---

posted October 15, 2013 04:45 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LoVeLy:

If you don't mind me asking what have you got in your 12th house ?
Thank you

---

posted October 15, 2013 06:33 AM            

His Sun, ASC, Venus and Mars falling into her 12th house; his Mercury conjuncts her 12th house cusp

her Venus is in his 12th house as well.

their composite has:

Sun, Mercury, Venus in pisces in 12th house, conjunct each other actually

And no it never has been a secret relationship, though for some time it was a secret and mystery to my brother just how much he cared for her, and he only realized that when he tried breaking up with her after a year or so (or did she break up with him? I do not remember), and he had to come to accept the fact that he could not cut this cord.

Well imo they are soulmates, but who am I to say this?
(well I am an astrologer and I also see that her Sun is conjunct his ASC and her Moon is conjunct his DESC. lol)

posted October 15, 2013 02:45 PM            

There is a little... sort of a synastry connection to this rambling.

But if someone wants to see the 12th in action (which I think it's different for everyone) then read on.

"I do have a 12th house thing to talk about. SSS brought up something in another thread about 12th house. It didn't really reveal anything new to me, but did remind me I suppose. Plus, it's something that I feel like talking about a bit.
To be perfectly honest, there's no reason to hide them but I always do. I want to continue hiding and I don't, both. My whole life is this push-pull. Everything in it. Which is why I'm sure I am difficult to understand.

So I go through cycles. It could be my Leo Sun fighting the rest of my chart? Specifically Leo fighting my 12th OR, it could be my moon in Gemini also since it's square Mars and Mercury that are in my 12th.
Well I'm rambling.

So, I will one minute say that I want to stop coming to the site, and then I don't actually stop coming to the site. This is very very 12th - a lot. So what's going on? Well even as I'm opening up a little right here I won't completely open up. I wouldn't to anybody.
I don't know how different planets in the 12th are affected, or affect the 12th, or signs. It's all different I'm sure, yet similarities.
They say that the 12th is to be cautious of alcoholism and drug addiction. I have no such thing and have NO desire whatsoever to smoke a cigarette, let alone do anything else. There are however, modern day, technological drug replacements: The Internet
That's exactly what it is to me. In part, it's an endless source of knowledge that my Virgo Mercury (in H12) just LOVES. That crazy Virgo Mercury just cannot obtain enough knowledge. Perhaps since it's square moon anything tied to emotion... you might as well have recorded on video. I remember emotional times unbelievably well, down to minor details.
The internet becomes an addiction. It becomes a drug. Not just because Mercury. LOL I have Mars there (not sure how that works) and Venus. Venus for whatever reason just kills me, again, and again, and again. It's square Neptune and I think since Venus is in 12 combined with that square. It's a very twisted, fantasy world full of illusion. It really is! I mean literal illusion! In the mind.
It's a very large part of why I remain single. I'm afraid. I can't even trust myself. As in, "Do I care about this person? Or is Neptune f*****g with me again? I don't know!" That's very sincerely the battle I face there. Honest. Separating illusion from reality is just the most difficult thing for me. When it comes to that aspect of life. Gemini Moon, Exalted Mercury, and Leo Sun kind of help me out a little. They step in once in a while and throw me a life-line.

The internet:
It's a world. A world so much larger and full of so much more than "real life". I can go to Japan in an instant, or England, or Australia, all in an instant. I can talk to the people (online). I can learn about their cultures. I can visit the Amazon Rain Forest, I can learn about Human Microbiology. I can read about history. I can find music and even see it live. Granted, it's not the same as DOING those things, but it's not such a bad "free" substitute, is it? I can leave the mundane, escape to somewhere else, occupy myself with learning. It's full of distraction. (and possibilities of love?? So Neptune/Venus would have me believe)
It's addicting. It's difficult to leave and let go of. It feeds something inside.
But then, some other parts of my chart seem to slap me a couple times and say, "You dumbs**t."
So I think when I say that "I get lost in the world of online" that "lost" is a keyword.
Loss
I lose a part of myself. Disconnect from reality, which ultimately, I am in. Just as if you do drugs and escape from reality. You think you have, but you haven't. It will come back.
When that happens to me. If I step back and think, "Geez. How much time have I spent online?" Or see that I'm falling behind on some other things. It's a wake-up. I don't want that. Leo you see, wants domination. Leo can't stand to lose power to anything - the internet included. Leo demands to have total control of self. Leo, my sun, is the essence of my being. My soul, my ego, my life force, the center of myself. So in the deepest parts of myself, I don't want this. I want it to be what it's "supposed" to be - something to do when I have nothing **ELSE** to do. Not something that keeps me from other things.

I don't mind Mercury in my 12th. Mercury loves it. I mean it's Virgo. Even in the 12th, Mercury is "home". It's comfortable. Square Moon... mmmm... that's a bit harsh. Especially when it's sitting with Mars and both squaring my moon. A lot of harsh energy being focused there.

So, if someone where to ask me, "What part of your chart would you change? And what part of your chart would you like to go to?"

Well, Venus in the 12th. I can deal with that. That's okay. Venus square Neptune? Kill it. Kill it with fire. If it were something tangible... some living thing. I'd choke it to death. Kill that f*****g thing.

Thankfully, what I want to become stronger, has always wanted to be king itself. Leo Sun. Amp it up! Shine, glow, burn... dominate (my chart)

posted October 15, 2013 05:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zander916:
Venus square Neptune? Kill it. Kill it with fire. If it were something tangible... some living thing. I'd choke it to death. Kill that f*****g thing.

---

posted October 15, 2013 07:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 12thhouser:
lol Why all the hostility toward Venus square Neptune? Are you speaking of this aspect natally or in synastry aspect?

---

Natally

posted October 15, 2013 07:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zander916:
Natally

I'm not so sure about synastry either....

---

posted October 15, 2013 07:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 12thhouser:
So, why the hostility toward Venus square Neptune?

---

Okay, first. This aspect in synastry, if I am thinking about this correctly.
The Neptune person will appear as everything the Venus person ever wanted. Neptune will make promises that it can't possibly keep. Dreams that never get fulfilled. Venus, eventually, is let down and hurt.
Sound right?

Okay, so natally. I'll give you a real life personal example of both Venus 12th and Venus square Neptune.
Twice in the last 3 years I had fallen for a woman who is married. One became a full on affair. That one approached me actually but still....
Both cases they were also foreign and kid(s). The latter of the two wasn't really foreign but of another heritage and their families stuck to those traditions of honor and closeness.
One of them it's debatable how she actually felt, but I definitely fell for her. It stayed with me for a long long time.
So that's Venus 12th, obviously.
In a "normal" person, I use that loosely, they would just think, "I really like them but it can't be." They'd keep their mouth shut, keep some distance and not try to charm their way in. I do exactly that. I charm my way in and it does work.
Venus square Neptune says, "Oh don't worry about any problems. It'll work out." Totally ignoring the fact that it would get very ugly if things progressed. Their culture dictated that if you step out on your spouse your own family disowns you. You and your new spouse are on your own. No longer welcome to family functions. Not to mention kids involved and all that. Totally ugly, and not worth it. I'm against that sort of thing honestly. But Venus square Neptune doesn't take into account ANYTHING but it's dreams - NOTHING else.
One is just stupid with money. I mean really out of control. She'll spend her whole paycheck on clothes, jewelry, etc. It's her husband who keeps her in check and he has to hide his money. It's bad. But again, Venus square Neptune doesn't see it, or ignores it.

posted October 15, 2013 08:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lioness:
I read some of your story in the other thread, and yours is similar to mine.. The whole working together t and the never ending battle...
Honestly I've been going through it for 3 years now... I can say there is no solution to this madness... Lol.

I have been working extra hard, to move forward.. I'm dating and doing my thing, even though we still speak everyday..
We talk everyday on our drive home, but we have limited it to just that...

I guess it's like what ceri said, you have to surrender to the way it is...
I have accepted it is what it is, we talk, fight, make up,
But we never loose the connection...
It is what it is!!!
I just had to face it
(Still working on it)

But good luck. .

---

Thanks, Lioness. At least it's not quite as complicated (and hopeless feeling) as it is with my twin, right? So that's somewhat comforting.

posted October 15, 2013 08:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zander916:
My best friend of over 30 years (since we were young children)

His asc, Sun, and mercury are in my 12th (his sun and mercury are in his 12th)
My sun is in his 12th (I have mercury Mars venus in my 12th)
I haven't looked at all aspects but I did notice that our moons are conjunct
My Venus right on his asc but in his 1st house.
It's just the way the house cusps worked out.

We never EVER have even small issues. Our minds seem like they are United.... It's crazy.

Edit
my bad. I said my Mars near his asc but this not true. Oops

---

posted October 15, 2013 08:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zander916:
So that's Venus 12th, obviously.
In a "normal" person, I use that loosely, they would just think, "I really like them but it can't be." They'd keep their mouth shut, keep some distance and not try to charm their way in. I do exactly that. I charm my way in and it does work.

---

Interesting way to put it, Zander. I will say, as a 12H Venus, (Virgo) that I am quite ascetic. It takes me a LONG time to go for what I want - if it could hurt me. (Especially matters involving intimacy; oh, God, I'll avoid that one like the plague until it's absolutely necessary. Even if it's driving me crazy - which it sometimes does.)

posted October 15, 2013 08:47 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Interesting way to put it, Zander. I will say, as a 12H Venus, (Virgo) that I am quite ascetic. It takes me a LONG time to go for what I want - if it could hurt me. (Especially matters involving intimacy; oh, God, I'll avoid that one like the plague until it's absolutely necessary. Even if it's driving me crazy - which it sometimes does.)

No aspect to Neptune, though.

---

posted October 15, 2013 09:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zander916:
Yep. I've told people, just matter of factly and helpfully, before assuming just ask. I'm aware of misunderstandings and make them aware too.
In day to day life with friends, coworkers, etc it's never a problem.

Edit: except online. For me it's the worst.

---