posted October 14, 2013 02:00 PM            

How do you think it'd be best to resolve the synastric 12H issues? Rulers? House placement of rulers? Closer analysis of both the planet and the state of the 12H?

These seem logical.

posted October 14, 2013 02:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by vickymadness:
it's simple
1-be clear and honest
2-stop the childish mind games

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posted October 14, 2013 02:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
It's not that simple because being honest and clear can come back on you. People will hate you for being honest, they will also hate you for being subtle. Sometimes it's a lose/lose situation.

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posted October 14, 2013 02:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by vickymadness:
That's YOUR perspective. I have always been dealing with people with so much clarity and honesty, and they love me for it. I don't understand why some want to complicate things when they're just plain simple.

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posted October 14, 2013 02:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
It's not that simple because being honest and clear can come back on you. People will hate you for being honest, they will also hate you for being subtle. Sometimes it's a lose/lose situation.

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Exactly.

Yes, honesty and more straightforward practises of transparency and clarification are EXTREMELY useful from the word 'go', but things get very thorny very quickly.

If we're looking at this from the perspective that Starlight's proposed, which I think was very sound, the keyword is UNDERMINE. It undermines everything we ATTEMPT to do - often without our knowledge, because we're misunderstanding and misinterpreting. GIGO.

So, I think we might all benefit from using the clues in rulerships, aspects, and so on to understand HOW best to combat these things.

posted October 14, 2013 02:34 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Starlight, do you and Vicky have 12H synastric overlays? ;p

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I have no idea.

I have been in so many twelfth house situations where the simple two step anecdote is completely useless. Damned if you do damned if you don't sums it up nicely. If she hasn't been in such situations, good for her.

posted October 14, 2013 02:44 PM            

It probably did not help that Sun and mercury was in my 8th house.
We never even talked but I was like so infatuated
I felt like I knew that person very well..

posted October 14, 2013 02:52 PM            

Say you've just bought a new house. It's everything you wanted. You've walked it several times; it's a secure purchase. You're excited to be moving in.

Then you open the door.

'This is not my beautiful house!' you seem to say, (echoing David Byrne). Somehow, it's a hall of mirrors!

As if overnight, someone has replaced the wonderful floor-plan of your new house - with a labyrinthine glass-covered madhouse - the likes of which you'd find in a carnival!

Okay. This is OBVIOUSLY not happening, so, you step outside, take a deep breath, calm yourself down, then push open the door again.

... Hall of mirrors!

All right, what the hell? This is impossible. How is it that you didn't KNOW this was a hall of mirrors? YOU didn't do this - no, THEY did; the one who sold you the house. THEY replaced it with a hall of mirrors!

You feel cheated. You feel enraged. You feel ... confused!

WHY would they do this?

WHY would they do this to you?

Don't they love you?

Don't they care?

The dreams of living in your beautiful new home are dashed. The only choice you have is to walk back in to the strange, sometimes terrifying, dark, (sterile-feeling - if it weren't such a dirty floor, with cobwebs in every corner, hanging from the ceilings which haven't been cleaned in ... well, have they ever?) place which is now your home -

- and NOTHING like you imagined it.

Depending upon you, you're likely to do a great many things.

Grab a flashlight, or light a match, and begin trying to find your way around - but be wary of what you might find. (Sun)

Also attempt the usage of some sort of light source, while appealing emotionally to the realtor, though your mobile service is spotty, and your messages keep getting garbled. ('I'kk dnrt knqw wjar yo m3am?' ... Huh?) (Moon)

Attempt the same - but in the dark, using logic and rationale. (Mercury)

Try to spruce the place up - some candles, incense, wall-coverings ... whew, boy; this could take awhile. (Venus)

Get mad as hell. Consider shooting out the mirrors with a gun - or bashing the glass to bits with whatever you find handy. (Sell ME a bloody hall of mirrors, will you ... I'll show YOU. ) (Mars)

Okay, so it's not what you wanted. It could be fun. Hey, it's an adventure. Look on the bright side. Eventually, you'll see what's real - and what's illusion. Best get cosy. (Jupiter)

You have a sucky house and a louse for a realtor. You begin the long walk through the house and vow to cease all future communication with the swindler. (Saturn)

Huh. This isn't right. Oh, well. Where were those explosives? Hang on, this'll just take a minute. (Uranus)

This is simply an illusion. The whole material plane, after all, is an illusion. You'll communicate psychically to the realtor, and find the best means to understand why this has happened. What's the illusion. ... But can you reach them? Are they responding? ... Hello ... is there anybody out there ... ? (Neptune)

It's dark, it's confusing, and not at all what you expected. You'll leave just long enough to order a hit on the realtor. THEN burn the place down. Done. (Pluto)

... as you can see, HOW we handle the situation is rather crucial. But the truth is this:

* It's not what we expected.
* We feel hurt, cheated, deceived.
* We don't know WHY.
* Our attempts for understanding become continually thwarted SOMEHOW, no matter WHAT we do.
* There's a pervasive feeling of hopelessness, of not getting through.
* HOW we react further directs how THEY will ACT.

But when you don't know what IS, and THEY don't understand YOU, that can become a VERY tall order.

posted October 14, 2013 02:59 PM            

Actually I think that is contraproductive to the 12th house symbolism; as Starlight said it is about acceptance and I want to add about surrender.
Accept that there are things our rational mind can`t grasp.

But honestly I haven`t had any nasty experiences with 12th house synastric overlays so far.

(Mr Law certainly does not count, right? )

My middle brother`s Moon is in my 12th house, though this is a special case, as he has the Donw syndrome.
It is however quite often that we will just be sitting in front of each other and do not waste energy on speaking, as telepathy is usually working quite well, too.
He just "knows" things; also if he is asking for my other brother, we know that my brother will arrive 10 minutes later, even if he had not said he will come.

Maybe it`s the 12th house overlays. While hsi Moon is in my 12th house (and conjunct my Valentine), his ASC and Venus is in my other brother`s 12th house (and my Moon and Jupiter is in that other brother`s 12th house, too).

Words are very rarely necessary among the three of us.

I also always found it interesting

my Jupiter: 11 Pisces
my middle Brothers Venus: 13 Pisces
my youngest brother Sun: 15 Pisces

(happening in my 3rd house, in my youngest brother`s 12th house and in my middle brothers 1st house).

I always thought that it looked like his VEnus was surrounded by our Jupiter and Sun, almost like a protection.

But anyway, that is about the only 12th house experience i remember.

posted October 14, 2013 03:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
It's not that simple because being honest and clear can come back on you. People will hate you for being honest, they will also hate you for being subtle. Sometimes it's a lose/lose situation.

---

Agree.
I bleed honesty. It takes a lot for me to not be.
It bites me a lot no matter how polite or smooth I try to make it. Not always, it depends on the listener.

I'm unsure of any really clear answer. That said, what has helped me the most.
This site and all of you. Learn about it. Study its effects. The aspects, the sign, the planet(s). This is straying a little but I view my chart simply as a map. You can't always know in detail the obstacles and pitfalls that await. You can however be aware of the ones likely to happen. Be aware of the strengths of your chart. Use them.

The 12th is sort of like having a store that is not on a main street and selling things that are unusual. There's nothing wrong with I. It just takes a type of person to discover its truth and strengths. I think too many of us, especially those of us who have it have unrealistic expectations of it.
I've also got years of experience with my own 12th house, so that helps)
Since coming to this site and at first being upset about it. Then throwing it out there o the world (probing for info indirectly). I've become pretty comfortable with it. Mostly, I now embrace it.
There's really nothing wrong with it. It's not weak and it's not curse. It's just different. Try to understand it's power in you life. Reflect and recognize those situations.
It's beautiful really.
We just have to catch on to the tune that it's singing. It's simply unlike the others. No better or worse, just different.
(written before I've read all responses)

posted October 14, 2013 03:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by vickymadness:
it's simple
1-be clear and honest
2-stop the childish mind games

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It's worked for me so far. Hope I don't end up screwing it up though. heh

posted October 14, 2013 03:34 PM            

As a person with mercury, Mars, and venus in my natal 12th. I've had MUCH MUCH better relationships with people with planets in my 12th. It's the ones who don't that need special care.

I could see if it's only in synastry that it would be a bit of a shock.

posted October 14, 2013 03:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kerosene:
I remember I had unrequited feelings for someone and moon and mars was in my 12th house.

It probably did not help that Sun and mercury was in my 8th house.
We never even talked but I was like so infatuated
I felt like I knew that person very well..

Yeah 12th house synastry is confusing and disastrous ime.

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Okay, let's clarify.

Their Sun and Mercury were in your 8H, and Moon and Mars in your 12H?

posted October 14, 2013 04:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Zander916:
Agree.
I bleed honesty. It takes a lot for me to not be.
It bites me a lot no matter how polite or smooth I try to make it. Not always, it depends on the listener.

I'm unsure of any really clear answer. That said, what has helped me the most.
This site and all of you. Learn about it. Study its effects. The aspects, the sign, the planet(s). This is straying a little but I view my chart simply as a map. You can't always know in detail the obstacles and pitfalls that await. You can however be aware of the ones likely to happen. Be aware of the strengths of your chart. Use them.

The 12th is sort of like having a store that is not on a main street and selling things that are unusual. There's nothing wrong with I. It just takes a type of person to discover its truth and strengths. I think too many of us, especially those of us who have it have unrealistic expectations of it.
I've also got years of experience with my own 12th house, so that helps)
Since coming to this site and at first being upset about it. Then throwing it out there o the world (probing for info indirectly). I've become pretty comfortable with it. Mostly, I now embrace it.
There's really nothing wrong with it. It's not weak and it's not curse. It's just different. Try to understand it's power in you life. Reflect and recognize those situations.
It's beautiful really.
We just have to catch on to the tune that it's singing. It's simply unlike the others. No better or worse, just different.
(written before I've read all responses)

<3

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posted October 14, 2013 04:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Zander916:
SSS

I know!

It's not that I don't believe it but I never understood it. I've never had any desire to do drugs, drink alcohol much, or even smoke. Even though others in my family have had such habits. I'm not even curious about it.

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I never got into it, either. I have gotten drunk before, stuff like that, but it never stuck. I smoked while a teen and was able to stop cold turkey, no problem.

posted October 14, 2013 08:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
It helps if the planet in the 12th house has stabilizing sound aspects to other planets outside the 12th house, as this helpe raising an awareness of what is going on underneath, though it still might be tricky to resolve this.

Actually I think that is contraproductive to the 12th house symbolism; as Starlight said it is about acceptance and I want to add about surrender.
Accept that there are things our rational mind can`t grasp.

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:gasp: Lies!

quote:

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My middle brother`s Moon is in my 12th house, though this is a special case, as he has the Donw syndrome.
It is however quite often that we will just be sitting in front of each other and do not waste energy on speaking, as telepathy is usually working quite well, too.
He just "knows" things; also if he is asking for my other brother, we know that my brother will arrive 10 minutes later, even if he had not said he will come.

Maybe it`s the 12th house overlays. While hsi Moon is in my 12th house (and conjunct my Valentine), his ASC and Venus is in my other brother`s 12th house (and my Moon and Jupiter is in that other brother`s 12th house, too).

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That's really interesting, Ceri. Yes, I can see how there'd be an element of telepathy, too. It's my Moon, AND my Mars - AND my Uranus in there. (I admit, it can be hard to not go, 'all right, where's the C4? I'm done with this.' Because I also KNOW I'll be regretting it later. So I'm always sitting there with the match going ... should I light this ... or ... not ... ?)

I can also imagine that the Valentine conjunction must help tremendously. Alas, his just quindeciles my Mars. (Like THAT's helping ... ) But it DOES trine my Sun, and HIS Mars. So, who knows? Of course, Eros and Pholus are also parallel my Mars ... of COURSE ... WTF? Heh.)

quote:

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Words are very rarely necessary among the three of us.

I also always found it interesting

my Jupiter: 11 Pisces
my middle Brothers Venus: 13 Pisces
my youngest brother Sun: 15 Pisces

(happening in my 3rd house, in my youngest brother`s 12th house and in my middle brothers 1st house).

I always thought that it looked like his VEnus was surrounded by our Jupiter and Sun, almost like a protection.

But anyway, that is about the only 12th house experience i remember.

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