posted December 15, 2013 09:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Rosalind:
On the contrary. When Pluto becomes the chart ruler it energy magnifies the power of Scorpio therefore the rising being the body and character of native becomes stronger than the Sun or Moon. Neither the person with a strong 8th house can't have such power.

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posted December 15, 2013 09:54 AM            

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Originally posted by geea:
define power

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posted December 15, 2013 10:46 PM            

Is this really sign-specific? Surely there are other signs which can be manipulative. Could it be related to general insecurity or something like that instead?

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Everyone is unique. The chart is a template. Experiences matter too.
Sun signs don't tell the whole story. Every sign has good and bad traits.
Evolved, mature people will show more of the good traits of their signs.

posted December 16, 2013 07:13 AM            

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Originally posted by geea:
^this would place the sun in 1st house: makes them warmer and more outgoing than a typical scorpio person.

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posted December 16, 2013 09:47 AM            

Sun Scorpios are stronger manipulator but they are also more in control of it.

Scorpio Risings are more in your face but they really don't do much damage. They think they do but..

I've seen Scorpio stellium in first house. Surprisingly the guy is very warm and nice. Not what people think when they think of the typical scorpio.

With great power, comes great control.

posted December 17, 2013 07:25 AM            

In general I have to agree that Plutonians are the most manipulative,and not all Plutonians have actual Scorpio activity in their charts in a significant way.

I have to agree also that the ascendant really is just the mask. Most ppl are nothing like their rising sign once you get to know them; that's just how they appear initially. If they actually do seem to be similar it's because there's other astrological themes echoing that energy in their chart.

posted December 17, 2013 09:23 AM            

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Originally posted by NeptunianSag:
IMO Scorpio sun, humble type of power. Scorpio rising, annoying and pushy.

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posted December 17, 2013 12:06 PM            

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Originally posted by IMoppedtheFloor:
Scorpio suns are more vindictive than manipulative. Scorpio rising just rides off of the "Scorpios are dark and intense mindf**kers" lore and uses that to their advantage.

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posted December 17, 2013 12:38 PM            

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Originally posted by geea:
what about people who have no clue about astrology but share a scorpio rising? do they use this notoriety too, sherlock?

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yes. i'm scorpio rising and could sense i could achieve a certain manner whilst knowing it wasn't my inner manner before i knew about astrology. i feel like it was riding off the back of something even tho didnt know what it was so 'notoriety' makes perfect sense looked at in a more figurative way.

posted December 17, 2013 03:30 PM            

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Originally posted by DaniPepper87:
How about a Scorpio Sun AND Scorpio Rising??

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posted December 17, 2013 09:06 PM            

We are just confident people who take your problems and see to it that we help you. If you do not want to be influenced, don't. If you do not need help, say NO. You are not some puppet who can get manipulated.

It is all the mystery surrounding and generic astrology descriptions either portray Scorpions either God or Devils.
I do not think Scorpions do voodoo or something.

posted December 18, 2013 02:48 PM            

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Originally posted by jupitersgirl:
Manipulation is a Plutonian quality. I've seen Scorpio Suns, risings being manipulative but I have also seen other signs being manipulative as well. It mainly depends on PLuto aspecting Venus and/or Mercury.

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Dunno. I'm not manipulative. I wish I were more "influential" but I'm not that either.

I'm Scorpio rising and I have Mercury square Pluto.

posted January 16, 2014 10:24 AM            

I'm Scorpio rising with Pluto conjunct ASC from 12th.
also domicile sun square Pluto by 3 degrees and ascendant by one minute. These make a tsquare with my exalted moon. Moon opp asc by 20 minutes. Mercury is also conjunct my sun by 2.

posted January 16, 2014 02:55 PM            

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Originally posted by SerpeantKing:
I'm a Scorpio Rising and I have to say that Scorpio's are incredibly manipulative. My Sun is in Aries and I'd wish they'd speak more. Like I'm being friendly, trying to catch up and what not, and they say nothing-using the power of silence to get me to say-reveal more it seems... You never know what kind of secret plot they got going on, but sooner or later, it shows itself and I've seen the ugly side of it. I don't think I'm manipulative unless it comes to protecting myself in some way. I'd say my intentions are always good and if they are bad, they are clearly visible. I make the worst liar as well and as a rule, I don't lie because from past experiances, I am usually caught in it. I'd have to say, overall the water signs are pretty manipulative... all of them. Never straightfoward, passive-aggressive, the cards not on the table, things-not out in the open. I just can't be like that. I feel it's dishonorable. Definitely Scorpio Sun more manipulative.

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posted January 17, 2014 07:39 AM            

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Originally posted by FruitTreeFresh:
Who do you think is more manipulative? I'm the Rising and my parents are Scorpio Sun with my dad being a hyper manipulative one. He employs psychological tactics. Do you think I will outdo him?

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My take on this:
I don't know your dad's Asc, but your original post only mentioned the sign Scorpio. this tells me that you are not yet comfortable with this energy. because any sign can manipulate.
The 1st house is house of Self expression. so you will express the whole chart through Scorpion energy. where as your dad already embodies the energy (his Sun) you are still struggling to embrace it.
This is why you call him hyper manipulative and you strive to win, as if it's a competition. but once you embrace Scorpion energy (which your dad already embodies) you won't see it as a competition, you won't call him hyper manipulative anymore. Winning or losing is no longer important, it will just be natural flow.
Perhaps you also despise manipulation and manipulative people, you can't believe your own dad can do such things to you. but do you really believe there is someone out there that has never done it his/her entire life? we all do it. some of us do it to survive. some for revenge. some people do it because they can. some people openly talk about it, some people don't.
Look at both charts. if your dad's Sun falls on your 12th house, you are receiving great lesson from him. no doubt there is great grief in it too, classic 12th house.

posted January 17, 2014 07:24 PM            

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Originally posted by beckylee:
The Scorpionic silence sometimes comes from the fact that we want our words and actions to mean something and to be real. Especially with people I don't know well I'm like that. I also do this out of respect. I let few people in my own world so I assume others might want to do the same. Water signs open up slowly. We tend to guard our feelings and thoughts and don't want to clash with others.

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posted January 18, 2014 02:24 PM            

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Originally posted by SerpeantKing:
I'm a Scorpio Rising and I have to say that Scorpio's are incredibly manipulative. My Sun is in Aries and I'd wish they'd speak more. Like I'm being friendly, trying to catch up and what not, and they say nothing-using the power of silence to get me to say-reveal more it seems... You never know what kind of secret plot they got going on, but sooner or later, it shows itself and I've seen the ugly side of it. I don't think I'm manipulative unless it comes to protecting myself in some way. I'd say my intentions are always good and if they are bad, they are clearly visible. I make the worst liar as well and as a rule, I don't lie because from past experiances, I am usually caught in it. I'd have to say, overall the water signs are pretty manipulative... all of them. Never straightfoward, passive-aggressive, the cards not on the table, things-not out in the open. I just can't be like that. I feel it's dishonorable. Definitely Scorpio Sun more manipulative.

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Well, looking at your placements in your signature, I think your directness might come from your heavy fire placements, not necessarily your rising sign. In my experience, Scorpios and Plutonians in general tend to communicate through body language- subtler signs- which I guess wouldn’t really flow well with Aries. But to be fair, I've met Scorpios who told me straight-up face to face what their issues were etc. I'm a Scorpio and Pluto-dominant and I've never really tried being manipulative to my friends and family.

But I get your point, because some Scorpios are really F-ed up. But that's just them, not all Scorpios.