posted January 18, 2014 02:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Blackbird:
Is this really sign-specific? Surely there are other signs which can be manipulative. Could it be related to general insecurity or something like that instead?

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This, right here. Thank you.

posted January 18, 2014 04:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by socialgraffiti:
Well, looking at your placements in your signature, I think your directness might come from your heavy fire placements, not necessarily your rising sign. In my experience, Scorpios and Plutonians in general tend to communicate through body language- subtler signs- which I guess wouldn’t really flow well with Aries. But to be fair, I've met Scorpios who told me straight-up face to face what their issues were etc. I'm a Scorpio and Pluto-dominant and I've never really tried being manipulative to my friends and family.

But I get your point, because some Scorpios are really F-ed up. But that's just them, not all Scorpios.

To answer the OP's question: Both placements can be manipulative, but Scorpio rising tends to be have more control in their behavior while Scorpio suns have completely intend to be manipulative.

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posted January 18, 2014 04:24 PM            

My feelings are based on a Scorpio Sun, Moon and Mercury mother and an entire family based on Hades Moons.

edit: both my parents are Hades Mooners with my mom being a Scorp Moon sq Pluto and dad a Leo Moon conj Pluto.

posted January 19, 2014 04:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by astrofan:
My take on this:
I don't know your dad's Asc, but your original post only mentioned the sign Scorpio. this tells me that you are not yet comfortable with this energy. because any sign can manipulate.
The 1st house is house of Self expression. so you will express the whole chart through Scorpion energy. where as your dad already embodies the energy (his Sun) you are still struggling to embrace it.
This is why you call him hyper manipulative and you strive to win, as if it's a competition. but once you embrace Scorpion energy (which your dad already embodies) you won't see it as a competition, you won't call him hyper manipulative anymore. Winning or losing is no longer important, it will just be natural flow.
Perhaps you also despise manipulation and manipulative people, you can't believe your own dad can do such things to you. but do you really believe there is someone out there that has never done it his/her entire life? we all do it. some of us do it to survive. some for revenge. some people do it because they can. some people openly talk about it, some people don't.
Look at both charts. if your dad's Sun falls on your 12th house, you are receiving great lesson from him. no doubt there is great grief in it too, classic 12th house.

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Nope. His Sun doesn't fall on my 12th.

posted January 28, 2014 12:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FruitTreeFresh:
Nope. His Sun doesn't fall on my 12th.

For all I thought Scorpio Suns will fight to win confrontations but on second thought, perhaps crying is also another way to win the battle lol. Thank god I am a Scorpio rising to see through them. I need to brush up on this skill.

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yes if his sun falls on your 1st house, you can see through it. if he is in your 12th, he is creeping up behind you. in your 1st, you are facing him. so you can see his motives much clearer.

posted January 28, 2014 12:52 PM            

and between the two I'd say my brother is "darker" or "more manipulative"

the scorp asc/sun guy I know is just very unstable/erratic/to himself but I think that is due to uranus aspects to his moon & in the 1H

my brother on the other hand plays silent treatment and is incredibly moody

I think it depends more on aspects rather than just having the rising or sun

looking at rising/sun placement alone won't tell the whole story

I've met aquarius people who seem VERY scorpio because of their pluto aspects to sun/mercury or other personal planets - but they have no planet in scorpio

this is all very complex

posted January 28, 2014 05:46 PM            

Manipulative, moody, sarcastic, and cruel at times.

I feel like he gets off from expressing those negative Scorpio/Pluto traits but then all the Leo in his charts snaps him out of it and he's all sunny warm guy.