posted January 10, 2014 07:19 AM            

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Originally posted by IMoppedtheFloor:
That doesn't even make sense. There's plenty of people others beg as "compassionate" (whether they are or not is up for debate but I digress), who are extremely self-defeatist, sitting on their fat butts all day getting high and babbling nonsensically instead of getting up and doing something with their waste of a life, and every other possible combination under the sun. Generalizing is never a good idea and always has a way of proving a person has not the first clue what they are talking about whatsoever, no matter how much they try to fool themselves and the rest of the world into thinking so using enigmatic phrasing and cryptic words.

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posted January 10, 2014 08:28 AM            

Sagittarius Moon wins.

posted January 10, 2014 08:39 AM              

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Originally posted by PlutoFish:
This IMF has something against people with compassion? LOL

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posted January 10, 2014 08:59 AM            

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Originally posted by geea:
speaking of compassion, carefull that one should not mistake compassion with helping others with the sole purpose that he/she may feel good about himself/herself.
that is not compassion, quite on the contrary, that is the finest form of vanity that exists.

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That is very true. I do get an ego from it i guess, (i try not to) but with a 1st house stellium (Sun,Mercury, Jupiter, Pluto) it's difficult not to, of course that isn't why i see compassion and truth as good in life, i use my ego to help express my feelings and beliefs of what is good in life and what is not, but then when we live on a world where truely helping another can be a rare thing, why not get an ego from it, especially where my generation is going, compassion and spiritually seem to be moving into a thing of the past .. I think of it as being a Buddha with a bit of an ego ^-^

posted January 10, 2014 12:17 PM              

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Originally posted by PlutoFish:
I don't mean to sound so "big and preachy", Pluto/Jupiter/ascendant/mercury everything comes across that way

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lol PlutoFish

posted January 10, 2014 12:41 PM              

Their internal "wiring" is different. They need something to hurt over in order to be content, and if they don't have that, they will find someway to screw up what's good in their lives so they have something to be in pain over, or they'll develop some kind of addiction issue.

And if you present them with healthier ways to cope with stress and pain, and then they still have the option of choosing the unhealthy route...they will ALWAYS choose the unhealthy route, until they get super-old, and have screwed up their lives one too many times and they can't take it anymore and they stop getting that rush of joy that they typically get from misery.

Pisces are kinda warped like that.

posted January 11, 2014 05:06 AM              

Kurt Cobain, young and younger
Palm Sunday 2009 marks the 15th anniversary of Kurt Cobain’s death April 5, 1994. The grunge songwriter and musician, leader of the band Nirvana, lived his 27 short years with a personality so utterly saturated in the dissolving waters of Pisces that it left him with nothing firm to hold onto, in terms of a life of his own.

“She eyes me like a Pisces when I am weak,” Cobain sings in the opening line of his final haunting hit, “Heart-Shaped Box.” And in the note found with his body three days after his death, he ridicules himself as “The sad little, sensitive, unappreciative, Pisces, Jesus man.” Yet his music ranged from haunting to ferocious. What was up with all the anger from the “weak” Pisces? From the sad little, sensitive, unappreciative, Pisces, Jesus man?

This isn’t a cautionary tale about everyone born under the sign of the Fish. Rather, Cobain’s expression of his Piscean dilemma shows the importance of a person’s whole birth chart, not just his sun sign. Just as some people are born missing limbs, so some are born lacking some of the usual array of personality traits that together encourage us psychologically to endure. Cobain’s highly concentrated, extraordinarily Piscean chart probably helped him become a superstar of music. But he also used its astrological symbolism to express his enduring pain.

Cobain’s birthday Feb. 20, 1967, didn’t just make him a sun sign Pisces. His sun, Mercury, Venus and Saturn were all in Pisces. Spiritually, the sign is associated with the idea of “individuality” disintegrating into the All – perhaps into Nirvana. Even Chiron, an important asteroid representing the wounded healer, is there in Pisces.

Beyond that, Cobain’s moon and Jupiter are in a fellow water sign, Cancer. His Mars and Neptune are in the third water sign, Scorpio. That’s all the planets and lights that the ancients knew of, plus two more. Every one of the personality planets and planets of fortune was positioned at his birth to boost the sensitive, watery Piscean quality of his natal chart.

The only planets not caught in the net of the deep, moody, emotional, compassionate, dissolving Piscean vibe are Uranus and Pluto, the “outer” planets of shock and power, which stand directly opposite the Piscean stellium. These two were positioned to oppose Cobain’s Piscean personality with the sort of tone represented in nature by lightning and volcanic eruptions.

This is the “I hate myself and I want to die” axis in Cobain’s chart. He had joked that “I Hate Myself and I Want to Die” was the working title of one of his albums. But his hatred of himself was also intricately tied in with his Piscean sense of empathy, and he made that clear in his note.

He died of a shotgun blast while simultaneously having a potentially lethal amount of heroin in his system. The death was ruled a suicide, although some people still question how it would be possible for him to shoot the gun after injecting an incapacitating amount of the drug. The scientific evidence is at issue. However, the private investigator and authors who promote the theory of skullduggery and murder try to use the note to back up their theory. That’s where understanding the central psychic issue for an artist with a chart soaked in Piscean sensitivity and empathy could be helpful.

“I have it good, very good, and I'm grateful,” Cobain wrote in the note. “But since the age of seven, I've become hateful towards all humans in general. Only because it seems so easy for people to get along that have empathy. Only because I love and feel sorry for people too much I guess.”

The conspiracy theorists say those aren’t the words of a suicide; they’re the words of a performer retiring from the music business.

No. Those words are not about business. They’re far deeper and more contradictory, like fish swimming both ways. They’re the words of a dissolving soul who seeks return to some form of blessed All or entry into some complete Nothing. The pond here, in which Cobain felt so empathetically connected with everyone, was hateful to him and had been since he was a very small, open, loving, artistic, compassionate kid. Why? Because people don’t love each other and have empathy for each other and get along, although it should be so easy to do.

Most of our Piscean friends might remember times of similar agony. But most of them also have a variety of characteristics through which they can pull themselves back easily enough from the urge to thoroughly dissipate. Most natal charts, unlike Cobain’s, tend to reflect a balance of different qualities of the mind, spirit and body.

Cobain obviously spent some effort writing his full-page note, trying to explain his sense of himself and how the very Piscean essence of his being – empathy – could become intolerable. Many of his fans “got it” the very first time they heard his widow, Courtney Love, read the note, pausing from time to time to sob and scream back at the ghost of his words.

In a very real way, according to his words and the astrological symbols he chose, he saw himself as one with “us.” He wanted so badly to love “us” that the evil he saw made him hate the “us” he saw, which he considered no different from himself. It may be hard to understand how that could feel so horrible unless you have important planets in Pisces.

http://www.examiner.com/article/kurt-cobain-15-years-later-we-still-eye-him-like-a-pi sces

cusp

posted January 11, 2014 10:03 AM            

This year is the 20th anniversary of his death not the 15th so that may have been an old article.

A month before he died, he overdosed in Italy and almost died, you could see then that he was on a downward spiral.

The thing with heroin addiction is that it leaves you with incredible depression that you just can not imagine getting past, here's where the hopelessness comes in.
Your body becomes "dope sick" and sometimes death feels like the only way out. As for his final dose, his tolerance was high and I do believe he had a death wish anyway.

Astrologically Pisces lesson is temptation.

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posted January 11, 2014 10:21 AM              

Well yes they can on the surface seem completely normal as everyone else...not all of them are scruffy grunge Nirvana wannabes.... Being self destructive is not just drug addictions.. but making choice that can inevitably effect your life. Yes a lot of people make horrible mistakes and you throw them out of your life but Pisces energy is impossible not to forgive.
but have you ever been extremely close to a Pisces?
Just like that Cobain quote you assumed life ****** them hard lol..
They are absolute masters at making it seem that way.

but really think about it, they made that mistake with their own free will...
It's your own best interest to blame them completely.
Unless some tragedy befalls one.

posted January 11, 2014 12:09 PM            

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Originally posted by Boilermaker:
I died and came back to life on January 4, 2013 @ 10:30am in Houston, TX. Now I'm a Capricorn with a Libra moon. I have a Pisces ascendant & a Pisces in Neptune. Have I become a phychic? ESP big time. I was born on 4/14/1984 @ 1:06pm in Katy, TX. I was born on a full moon with an Aries sun sign & a moon in Libra & a Leo ascendant so I still have a Libra moon but did God give me psychic abilities when I was reborn?

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Wow, um... Maybe? That's up to you to discover, I guess. Glad you're here with us today. Mind talking about what you experienced while you were dead? It's really impressive.

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I actually agree with Starlight.
A lot of Pisces have it together, and it's not just an illusion - they can be really hard-working, and often successful (at least when they're older... young Pisces can be pretty lost indeed). But then again, a chart isn't made of the Sun sign alone.

The description IMopped gave, strikes me more as an afflicted Saturn/Pluto thing rather than a Pisces thing.

Neptune is the kinda energy that just... drifts away from reality, usually to a "better" place (!) but there's no destructive impulse in it, in my opinion.
Destructive is Pluto/Scorpio, and I believe in Kurt's case it's precisely his Scorpio/Pluto energy that manifested in his hatred, while Pisces just made it incredibly difficult for him to *do* something about it and stop wallowing in the deep oceans, so to speak. And externally, it manifested as self-destruction, but I think it was more about escaping the (perceived) harsh reality and freeing himself from the internal pressure he felt due to his incredible sensitivity (Saturn probably made it very difficult for him to see the "good side").

I think what I'm trying to say is that there are different types of self-destruction.
For Pisces it's about escaping the harshness of the world, the intent here is to feel better, but it manifests in destructive ways because of the methods they so often choose (drugs for example, or spiritual fanaticism). The other type of self-destruction is the one with the intent of *hurting* oneself, because of strong negative feelings turned inward. That'd be the Pluto side of it, not Neptune.

posted January 11, 2014 12:57 PM            

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
One person is not everyone.

One name. River Phoenix. Similar situation, not a Pisces sun, and I am sure I can find MANY others, too, he is just one I am thinking of right off the top of my head.

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posted January 11, 2014 01:09 PM            

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Originally posted by Doux Ręve:
River had Scorpio rising with Neptune in 1st house, opposite a Moon/Saturn conjunction.

ETA: actually he had a T-square... Sun & Mars were at the apex. Dang.

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I think it's more of a Neptunian and maybe Jupiterian, too, than it is the sign Pisces. Where these two planets are and what they rule and their aspects in the natal triggered by transits and possibly progressions. Probably, like you suggest, there needs to be a pattern in the chart. Oppositions across the ascendant/descendant, maybe, could be a part of that pattern? They are triggered over and over throughout life and substances could be a possible response.

It's not fair to the Pisces suns to assume they will all be self destructive or addicted to drugs or alcoholics. Just let them be who they are going to be without the power of suggestion.

posted January 11, 2014 01:23 PM            

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:

Good point, LC, but it's still not technically a Pisces sun. Virgo and Pisces are two different sign so it's not fair to blame a Pisces sun when a Virgo does something, and vice versa.

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