posted January 28, 2014 02:00 AM            

Popular opinion, however, would assign Chiron as the ruler. But people continue to use Mercury; stating that they'll stick to the traditional view that Mercury is Gemini's ruler by day and Virgo's ruler by night.

Personally I think, and this may sound awfully controversial,that the Moon should be the ruler of Virgo.

The Moon rules daily habits, functions, rituals and routines. Also, for planting seasons, there is a lot of detailed timing that is done with the moon.

The Moon is also said to be the symbolically representative of the mother; dutiful, concerned with specific matters,skilled and expected to be efficient(all Virgo traits).

Cancer will then go to Ceres as the earth mother; abundant and fruitful at certain times of the year and then,barren and restrictive at others.

posted January 28, 2014 02:55 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kerosene:
how astute
moon is virgos esoteric ruler.
did u know that

anyways virgo moon has always been a nice placement imo.

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posted January 28, 2014 03:14 AM            

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
There is an article that I read somewhere that suggested that Vesta could be the secondary ruler of Virgo.

Popular opinion, however, would assign Chiron as the ruler. But people continue to use Mercury; stating that they'll stick to the traditional view that Mercury is Gemini's ruler by day and Virgo's ruler by night.

Personally I think, and this may sound awfully controversial,that the Moon should be the ruler of Virgo.

The Moon rules daily habits, functions, rituals and routines. Also, for planting seasons, there is a lot of detailed timing that is done with the moon.

The Moon is also said to be the symbolically representative of the mother; dutiful, concerned with specific matters,skilled and expected to be efficient(all Virgo traits).

Cancer will then go to Ceres as the earth mother; abundant and fruitful at certain times of the year and then,barren and restrictive at others.

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posted January 28, 2014 03:55 AM            

Aries - Reference to the story of Golden Fleece
Taurus - Reference to the the story of Minotaur
Gemini - Reference to the story of Castor and Polydeuces
Cancer - Reference to the story of Hera's crab
Leo - Reference to the the story of Nemean Lion
Virgo - Reference to the story of Persephone's abduction
Libra - Reference to the goddess Diké balancing the length of day with the length of night.
Scorpio - Reference to the story of Orion
Sagittarius - Reference to the story of Cheiron
Capricorn - Reference to the story of Amaltheia
Aquarius - Reference to the story of Ganymede
Pisces - Reference to the story of Typhon

The Greek symbol attributed to the sign of Virgo (a virgin) refers directly to the story of Demeter (or Ceres) and Persephone. Aside from that indicator, there is a strong parallel between the energy of Virgo and the energy of Ceres.

I consider Ceres to be Virgo's primary ruler and Mercury Virgo's secondary ruler.

The theory about Virgo and the Moon is an interesting one, but speaking as a Virgo Moon person, I'm not sure Virgo's type of mothering is lunar mothering. There is a vulnerability required in lunar nurturing that does not so much exist in Virgo as easily as it exists in Cancer. Ceres on the other hand rules nourishment, the calculated provision of sustenance in order to promote health. Ceres is mother nature, in the sense that she knows the amount of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, silica, protein, calcium, etc.. required to create a single blade of grass, and so she places that blade of grass in the perfect environment to fulfill its growth.

posted January 28, 2014 08:34 AM            

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Each sign symbol of the western astrological system exists based on a Greek myth.

Aries - Reference to the story of Golden Fleece
Taurus - Reference to the the story of Minotaur
Gemini - Reference to the story of Castor and Polydeuces
Cancer - Reference to the story of Hera's crab
Leo - Reference to the the story of Nemean Lion
Virgo - Reference to the story of Persephone's abduction
Libra - Reference to the goddess Diké balancing the length of day with the length of night.
Scorpio - Reference to the story of Orion
Sagittarius - Reference to the story of Cheiron
Capricorn - Reference to the story of Amaltheia
Aquarius - Reference to the story of Ganymede
Pisces - Reference to the story of Typhon

The Greek symbol attributed to the sign of Virgo (a virgin) refers directly to the story of Demeter (or Ceres) and Persephone. Aside from that indicator, there is a strong parallel between the energy of Virgo and the energy of Ceres.

I consider Ceres to be Virgo's primary ruler and Mercury Virgo's secondary ruler.

The theory about Virgo and the Moon is an interesting one, but speaking as a Virgo Moon person, I'm not sure Virgo's type of mothering is lunar mothering. There is a vulnerability required in lunar nurturing that does not so much exist in Virgo as easily as it exists in Cancer. Ceres on the other hand rules nourishment, the calculated provision of sustenance in order to promote health. Ceres is mother nature, in the sense that she knows the amount of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, silica, protein, calcium, etc.. required to create a single blade of grass, and so she places that blade of grass in the perfect environment to fulfill its growth.

Ceres is symbiosis, as opposed to codependency. Ceres offers her breast to a baby in order for that baby to grow healthy and strong, the Moon offers her breast because her instincts tell her it will fulfill her baby's need. This is not to imply that Ceres (or Virgo) is unfeeling, the mythological explanation of why winter even existed was because Ceres mourns the absence of her daughter, every year when Persephone is bound to visit the underworld.

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I know of the Persephone story and I think the reason that I said that the Ceres is more tied up with Cancer is because I think of Ceres as the earth mother; providing for the living organisms in whatever fashion that is necessary.She is genuinely fertile and concerned with nourishment of communal and individual organisms on earth.

At the same time, I think of Virgo as tied up with schedules, plans and "life goes on regardless".

Virgo is the sign of service and is, in my opinion, also very co-dependent. Who is to be taken care of or helped when all people are well?

Another reason why I said that Virgo is the ruler of the moon is the "empty nest" syndrome that many mothers experience when their children are all grown up. They seem to believe that their role as mothers becomes redundant. They start to look for new reasons to be purposeful whilst others get depressed about being "useless".

On the flip side, those who have wanted children but cannot, often feel like they haven't quite fulfilled their obligation/duty as women(a strong Virgo theme). What kind of woman am I if I am not mother, wife etc?

posted January 28, 2014 08:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I'm not sure Virgo's type of mothering is lunar mothering. There is a vulnerability required in lunar nurturing that does not so much exist in Virgo as easily as it exists in Cancer.

Ceres offers her breast to a baby in order for that baby to grow healthy and strong, the Moon offers her breast because her instincts tell her it will fulfill her baby's need.

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I find this pertinent to Taurus, and the Exaltation of the Moon, with reference to Isis.

posted January 28, 2014 10:12 AM            

Gemini is ruled by Planet "Z" yet to be discovered, (just as Taurus is ruled by Planet "X" yet to be discovered, which would complete the co-rulerships) but what about Pluto which is also associated with mercury and is technically not even a planet. [im not argung Pluto here, but there is a great youtube video by the scientist who debunked it as a planet when he discovered the largest planet beyond Pluto, also in the Kuiler Belt, called Eris. The orbits alone discount Pluto as a planet, so my mind is open to new rulerships, that's all)

Anyway, the Gemini mind is so quick. It's always 3 steps ahead into the future. The Virgo mind is super analytical always rehashing the past. Assigning additional co-rulers can help us understand the higher mind thinking process in a new way.

posted January 28, 2014 12:26 PM            

Ceres' love comes in the form of nurturing.
Vesta's love comes in the form of devotion or dedication.
You nurture babies unconditionally, you don't teach them to drink milk on their own.

Have you seen Virgo mums? They are not nurturing... Virgo moons are very motherly though.

posted January 28, 2014 12:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by summerlite:
I don't see how Ceres can be linked to Virgo really... just because Virgo is holding on to wheats. Sign of harvest means teaching people to harvest, servicing them.

Ceres' love comes in the form of nurturing.
Vesta's love comes in the form of devotion or dedication.
You nurture babies unconditionally, you don't teach them to drink milk on their own.

Have you seen Virgo mums? They are not nurturing... Virgo moons are very motherly though.

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posted January 28, 2014 01:21 PM            

Virgo does not become a woman, she is a maiden. If she were a full fledged woman, the constellation would simply be called Goddess, not that I wouldn't prefer it.

posted January 28, 2014 01:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by summerlite:
All the constellation signs have their related myths. Clearly, you don't even know that. Why even link it to Demeter then?

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posted January 28, 2014 02:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
I know of the Persephone story and I think the reason that I said that the Ceres is more tied up with Cancer is because I think of Ceres as the earth mother; providing for the living organisms in whatever fashion that is necessary.She is genuinely fertile and concerned with nourishment of communal and individual organisms on earth.

At the same time, I think of Virgo as tied up with schedules, plans and "life goes on regardless".

Virgo is the sign of service and is, in my opinion, also very co-dependent. Who is to be taken care of or helped when all people are well?

Another reason why I said that Virgo is the ruler of the moon is the "empty nest" syndrome that many mothers experience when their children are all grown up. They seem to believe that their role as mothers becomes redundant. They start to look for new reasons to be purposeful whilst others get depressed about being "useless".

On the flip side, those who have wanted children but cannot, often feel like they haven't quite fulfilled their obligation/duty as women(a strong Virgo theme). What kind of woman am I if I am not mother, wife etc?

This was all purely my thinking and strictly hypothetical of course.

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Your logic makes sense and it is certainly something to investigate. I think the reason I see Ceres less as a candidate for Cancer and more appropriate for Virgo, is because Cancer as an archetype is not a fussy mom who makes sure her kids have good food to make them grow strong. She is an intuitive mom who takes her kids out to ice-cream when they have bad days. The Moon is synonymous with fertility as well, it's very gravitational pull makes water more abundant to plants.

You are right that Virgo is more about schedules (which, in the light of lunar harvesting schedules, would explain the Lunar attribution), Cancer however is also attributed to cycles and specifically cycles of fertility. Menstruation which is attributed to both Cancer and the Moon is one link I see where the Moon still fulfills that place where Ceres could fit.

As a Virgo Moon I could agree with your comment on Virgoan codependency. As an archetype though, I haven't seen that in Virgo. Virgo's archetype wants to exist in symbiosis and be a really effective cell in a system that thrives because of Virgo's involvement. It wants to be good at what it does, because that results in a better ability to fix all the problems with the system; maintaining the whole in homeostasis. Similar to how when disease enters one's body, a healthy body immediately responds with antibodies. The antibodies rely on the system to keep them healthy and the system relies on the antibodies to keep it healthy. When an antibody is old and can't perform its function anymore though, the system doesn't do everything in its power to hold on to it (a lunar trait) and the antibody doesn't fight the system and demand to hang out at work all day without contributing. The antibody is instead labeled obsolete and willingly marches off to the soup, no hard feelings. This happens, not because the system has or does not have a particular emotional attachment with the antibody, but because the system and the antibody know it has been promoted from "fighter of infection", to "ingredient in the creation of future antibodies". In this way I experience Virgo's archetype as more cooperative, than codependent. The way Virgo experiences reward is by being effective to others, but if they are unable to do their job, or the system does not provide a healthy environment for them, they find work elsewhere.

This is indicated in the story of Demeter, who when her daughter was stolen away to the underworld, got her way because she messed with the health of the system. Hades's agreement to free Persephone happened because Zeus was afraid all his humans would starve, move to the underworld, and then... no more system where Zeus is the boss. He didn't set up that deal because Demeter somehow appealed to Zeus's parental sentiments.

When Cancer's archetype experiences empty nest syndrome, it continues to use its emotions to gravitate its child back into needing it (guilt for example). And once their child has children, Cancer can jump right in as grandma who sometimes secretly dreams about her kid dying and her grandkid having to come live with grandma... and oh the amount of ice-cream they will eat.

Virgo on the other hand, like you said, looks at its children moving away as a huge gap in usability. It may take on a housekeeper role, or a devoted wife role, or even a student roll as it goes back to school to become a Realtor. Whenever their kid comes home though, the fridge is always stocked, their mail is clipped together in the basket by the door (arranged in chronological order), and mom is in the kitchen asking of they want a sandwich, reminding them about the oil change for their car, and fussing over their paled complexion.

The difficulty between our two arguments comes down to the difference between the words Nurturing and Nourishing. Both are essentially maternal (just like the Moon and Ceres are both maternal), but the Moon isn't just an earth mother, she is the cosmic mother. She is the womb that develops and cares for the world, everything is her child, because it is within her. The only empty nest syndrome she experiences is when a child dies. Ceres is, as you mentioned, an earth mother and that is why we talk about things like ecosystems, natural selection, and symbiosis. Physical life requires nourishment to thrive and nourishment is sustainable only through symbiotic relationship. All objects in nature are a product of their position within the whole natural system and Ceres mothers us by facilitating those systems.

On a personal level, the Moon deals with what we feel comfortable with in our gut. It is a personal experience and not something easily described. Ceres on the other hand is where we fit in, what skills we have to support and nourish others. It is also the conditions we require in order to express that nourishment at an optimum level.

I think you have a good theory and I think it raises a fantastic parallel between Cancer and Virgo's archetypes. It is something I will keep in mind when I look at charts.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ellynlvx:
I find this pertinent to Taurus, and the Exaltation of the Moon, with reference to Isis.

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I wonder if you will elaborate? I see where Taurus's exaltation fits with Taurus's ability to nurture and nourish, I just don't see Taurus's archetype as being specifically driven to nurture. I see Taurus offering its breast to a baby because the Taurus once tasted breast milk and it was delicious. The baby should therefor try it too, because the baby is bound to have an equally enjoyable experience. ALSO milk makes baby chubby, and chubby babies are more soft, squishy, and fun to hug.

quote:

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by summerlite:
[b]I don't see how Ceres can be linked to Virgo really... just because Virgo is holding on to wheats. Sign of harvest means teaching people to harvest, servicing them.

Ceres' love comes in the form of nurturing.
Vesta's love comes in the form of devotion or dedication.
You nurture babies unconditionally, you don't teach them to drink milk on their own.

Have you seen Virgo mums? They are not nurturing... Virgo moons are very motherly though.

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posted January 28, 2014 02:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
[b]Yes and I mentioned the ones with the most in common with Virgo as possible rulers. None of them are perfect matches.
Persephone clearly has more in common with Taurus and Scorpio than Virgo. That's obvious.
The earth yields its bounties during September in the northern hemisphere and that's clearly related to Ceres more than any other sign while Sagittarius could be related to Dionysus. People like to say Capricorn but the earth turns cold before winter and everything is pruned in the fall, ideally. [/B]

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posted January 28, 2014 04:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by summerlite:
With the way you are reading myths, i wouldn't be surprised if you link Chiron and the other centaurs to Sagitarrius.

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posted January 28, 2014 04:51 PM            

Going back to planetary ruler... I don't understand why Virgo's house (6th) is daily routine, health, habits blah blah.. isn't that too general? Might as well just look at the 6th house to determine who a person is since it's pretty much what it stands for. We do a lot in our daily lives and most of those things define who we are lol. The moon would be a pretty good candidate but I think Cancer will have the priority there. I still believe Virgo's real ruler is hiding somewhere.. it is a very mysterious, and closed-off sign. The glyph says it all.

posted January 29, 2014 02:36 AM            

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Originally posted by next to neptune:
Everytime people make threads about this subject (and it happens a LOT) I lose so much respect for you guys. Why can't you just accept that the ruler of virgo and gemini is mercury? It's so freakin obvious, and all this asteroid-crap is so stupid and has so little meaning.

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