posted May 31, 2014 09:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
If everything was alright, he would not have committed suicide.

It depends. Different people have different thresholds of pain. For you, suicide may never be a solution. But for him, it was. You have to put yourself in his position.

If there is no hope. If it feels like life is not worth living anymore. If you’ve seen it all, the same pattern keeps repeating over and over again. Then suicide might be a solution. Because a person like that would be a dead man walking for the rest of the life anyway. Simply waiting for death.

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I see your point! Thank you...I respect were you are coming from and I understand now what you are trying to convey....

But I also feel that even if You are waiting for death bc you are stuck in a possibly permanent and very real rut as a result of your cognitive limitations and mental illness that you can choose to focus on the things that bring you pleasure like in his case drawing (he wanted to be a drafter and was one class away from finishing his associates degree), playing basketball, watching movies....

posted May 31, 2014 10:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by amelia28:
I see your point! Thank you...I respect were you are coming from and I understand now what you are trying to convey....

But I also feel that even if You are waiting for death bc you are stuck in a possibly permanent and very real rut as a result of your cognitive limitations and mental illness that you can choose to focus on the things that bring you pleasure like in his case drawing (he wanted to be a drafter and was one class away from finishing his associates degree), playing basketball, watching movies....

In other words make the most of what you have, appreciate the good in your life and work through your issues at your own pace.

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posted May 31, 2014 11:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
I get what you mean. Maybe you’re able to accept life as it is. That’s cool. Some can’t, they’re too fixed in their ways. And I think, these are the ones who commit suicide.

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Got you..thanks for your input...it has been very helpful.

There was a time in my life were I wanted to die, were every single cell and bone in my body was in pain figuratively speaking and I felt dead inside but suicide was never an option.

IDK

Is definitely a very plutonian topic as suicide is both a taboo and death and a mystery since every case is unique.

posted May 31, 2014 11:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NeptunianSag:
What would indicate a life just not worth living? Full of suffering and set backs and not really getting anywhere, just wallowing in your own unfortunate situations. (Kind of a sadistic topic I know) Would it be a severly afflicted 1st and 2nd house?

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posted June 01, 2014 02:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Libra5643:
Karma isn't fair. it should be taken care of in the same lifetime as the one they did bad in. This is pretty much saying a good kind person with a bad past life will have a terrible life no matter how kind and good he/she is. it's almost like accusing someone who has no idea what they did. Then again it probably works on a bigger scale because the soul needs to evolve and whatnot.

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posted June 01, 2014 03:32 AM            

detriments are pretty bad nontheless

posted June 01, 2014 04:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by manderin:
I certainly don't want to imply I "know" the secrets workings of the universe, but I've come to certain conclusions from reading some vedic scriptures. We are told that who we are is not our mind or our memories...but something much deeper that has nothing to do with our mind. In other words, the brain and everything in it is what we humans IDENTIFY with as ourselves, but it is not actually us. It is something that dissapears when this life is over. The part of us that continues after death is a different type of consciousness. A consciousness that has no mental memory of the past and no expectations of the future. Think of it this way... did you ever just know how to do something or simply had a knack for something even though you didn't really have much experience in it? Or perhaps you knew someone who was able to learn how to play an instrument so quickly compared to others you thought to yourself... "my this person is so lucky to have been born with such talent!" But the truth is that the reason this person has such a knack for music has nothing to do with luck, because over the past one or two lifetimes they devoted themselves to learning music. That's why they were born so called "lucky" in musical talent. In this lifetime, they don't have any mental recollection of all the practicing they did in their last life, but their SOUL has memory of all that practice! And so they picked up the instrument and when they learn it they don't mentally understand why they just 'get' it so easily compared to other people. Mozart was a musical prodigy and he likely studied music for many lifetimes to develop the genius that he was born with. I personally don't believe Karma is about "good" or "bad" because those are subjective. I think it's more about reaping the rewards and consequences of the past life. And I think it's ultimate goal is to teach us that we are all connected. If you kill someone's spouse in one life, perhaps your own spouse is killed in the next... This teaches your soul the pain you caused the surviving spouse in the last life and therefore teaches your soul that it is not separate from the other soul, but the same. All souls are ultimately linked by the divine source and I think that is Karma's ultimate lesson. It is not trying to teach morality. It is trying to awaken us to the lie of separateness.

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posted June 01, 2014 08:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by amelia28:
IYO when is it ok to commit suicide? when is this a good idea or option?

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posted June 02, 2014 12:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by KarmicMoon:
Sorry about your client amelia28. It's always heartbreaking when someone feels like they have no other choice. I have someone in my life I worry about that has tried to commit suicide several times. To others looking in, it is hard to understand but like someone else said, everyone has different pain thresholds and we can never experience someone elses life with all their burdens. I think we bring stuff with us from previous lives as well and aren't even aware of it.

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He was young and I saw a lot of potential. It seems he wanted to feel like he was working towards improving and will take some steps towards that but followed by several steps backwards. It seemed like he was floating and stuck but wanted to feel like he was moving forward but without putting enough work for that to happen, maybe he was trying as much as he could....

He was reserved and anxious and was trying to work out his issues but he did not mention he was feeling depressed or suicidal ever! and I could sense that we would talk about things that he wanted to work on but I also sensed he was keeping a lot in and asked him to please to talk to anyone he feels comfortable with about what he was feeling inside; a friend, a family, staff. I kept telling him we all need to vent and talk to someone, I explained it was very important...he did not listen and told everyone he was taking his meds although staff felt he was lying...

He wouldn't listen, he lied and was not honest about how deep it was what he was going through...

If he would have verbalized his suicidal ideations but he didnt. We can only do so much and work with what we have with the full cooperation of the other....

I learned today he passed away Saturday most likely around the time this thread got started.....

posted June 02, 2014 12:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by manderin:
I certainly don't want to imply I "know" the secrets workings of the universe, but I've come to certain conclusions from reading some vedic scriptures. We are told that who we are is not our mind or our memories...but something much deeper that has nothing to do with our mind. In other words, the brain and everything in it is what we humans IDENTIFY with as ourselves, but it is not actually us. It is something that dissapears when this life is over. The part of us that continues after death is a different type of consciousness. A consciousness that has no mental memory of the past and no expectations of the future. Think of it this way... did you ever just know how to do something or simply had a knack for something even though you didn't really have much experience in it? Or perhaps you knew someone who was able to learn how to play an instrument so quickly compared to others you thought to yourself... "my this person is so lucky to have been born with such talent!" But the truth is that the reason this person has such a knack for music has nothing to do with luck, because over the past one or two lifetimes they devoted themselves to learning music. That's why they were born so called "lucky" in musical talent. In this lifetime, they don't have any mental recollection of all the practicing they did in their last life, but their SOUL has memory of all that practice! And so they picked up the instrument and when they learn it they don't mentally understand why they just 'get' it so easily compared to other people. Mozart was a musical prodigy and he likely studied music for many lifetimes to develop the genius that he was born with. I personally don't believe Karma is about "good" or "bad" because those are subjective. I think it's more about reaping the rewards and consequences of the past life. And I think it's ultimate goal is to teach us that we are all connected. If you kill someone's spouse in one life, perhaps your own spouse is killed in the next... This teaches your soul the pain you caused the surviving spouse in the last life and therefore teaches your soul that it is not separate from the other soul, but the same. All souls are ultimately linked by the divine source and I think that is Karma's ultimate lesson. It is not trying to teach morality. It is trying to awaken us to the lie of separateness.

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Interesting....I like.

Someone who commits suicide has not awaken to the lie of separateness; I would say is this lie that in a way leads to this sort of scape; self induced death.

Or maybe the karma for this life was too much for the person to handle...

Or maybe self induced death was the souls way to stop feeling separate and reunite with everything??

posted June 02, 2014 12:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by amelia28:
[b]IYO when is it ok to commit suicide? when is this a good idea or option?

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[/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks...normally I am very understanding about this topic but bc is someone I knew and cared about it I reacted by being judgmental a bit bc I was upset...

I am processing all this.....

posted June 02, 2014 01:17 PM            

quote:

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Someone who commits suicide has not awaken to the lie of separateness; I would say is this lie that in a way leads to this sort of scape; self induced death.

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Teaching them about "the lie of separatedness" wouldn't help them much. People in strong pain need practical solutions.

posted June 02, 2014 01:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Teaching them about "the lie of separatedness" wouldn't help them much. People in strong pain need practical solutions.

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I don't sit down with clients and talk about the lie of separateness LOL...are you for real?

I am not asking for advice LOL, WTF.

I was having a philosophical discussion with someone who I like intellectually.

PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION.

I was analyzing the possible reasons people take that route...

Oh and if I did choose to talk about the lie of separateness with a client it would be worded and presented in a way that they can grasp concept and it would be in context and would be coupled with plenty of practical solutions!!!....

posted June 02, 2014 01:48 PM            

quote:

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I don't sit down with clients and talk about the lie of separateness LOL...are you for real?

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posted June 02, 2014 02:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
[QUOTE]I don't sit down with clients and talk about the lie of separateness LOL...are you for real?

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I didn't say or think you did. Buddhism tends to make wanna roll my eyes, that's all

[/QUOTE]

LOL.....oh ok...hahaha

Got you.

I can respect that, the practical side of you likes more concrete approaches to coping and you are right...concrete and practical are very important.

but I love philosophical debates since my chart ruler is jupiter.

Thanks for clarifying.

posted June 03, 2014 03:56 PM            

quote:

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but I love philosophical debates since my chart ruler is jupiter.

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posted June 03, 2014 05:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by amelia28:
[b]IYO when is it ok to commit suicide? when is this a good idea or option?

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This actually scared me. -shivers-

[/B][/QUOTE]

posted June 03, 2014 05:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
That story broke my heart. I totally understand their choice.

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