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Author Topic:   People who really don't want children
I'm so cappy
Knowflake

Posts: 8255
From: Saturn (summer house on Chiron)
Registered: Nov 2012

posted August 09, 2014 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I'm so cappy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you're insane that's even better, we could be friends I wish you quick recovery

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I'm sooo happy! I mean, cappy.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted August 09, 2014 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
If you're insane that's even better, we could be friends I wish you quick recovery


Hahaha, awesome. Yeah, I consider myself more than a little quirky. And thank you. /hug/ I appreciate that. I have chronic head aches, neck aches etc., got a bad one today from stress but the painkillers are helping a bit. I'll probably sleep soon. Too bad they make me so tired and foggy!

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libran_dream
Knowflake

Posts: 35
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posted August 10, 2014 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libran_dream     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
It's crazy how alike we are! I love it. I completely agree with everything you've said here. You have an excellent dream, so never give up on it, no matter what! You also strike me as a Piscean/Neptune person, do you have Neptune aspects or Pisces planets?

I know what you mean about the Moon-Uranus aspect, especially when it comes to needing to be away from family to feel truly free. So strange. I also get really jittery with too much routine, even though I know I need it. I attribute this to my Gemini Mars usually, but I guess the Uranus-Moon is a pretty big part of it.

I am actually not very Neptunian at all, or at least I don't think so. A transit maybe. But it might be that you have something on or near Capricorn 3°, which is where my Neptune is!

It's so interesting that we found common threads to this topic, so we have
- H5 empty or with malefics
- Moon-Chiron link
- Moon-Saturn link
- potentially a strong Vesta placement

Where's your Vesta?


quote:
Originally posted by MorpHnStorM:
What you wrote there in bold is exactly how I feel.
The major contributing aspects I feel are:
Moon squ. Uranus
Moon-IC-Artemis opposite BML-MC-Pallas.
Mars and Saturn in Scorpio/5th opposite Sun and Venus in the 11th.
AC-Vesta

I definitely feel like the nurturer/ protector of kids (and animals); that I am truly devoted to them, but I have never liked the idea of being "domesticated" in that sense. I've always felt that there were already enough kids on this planet; kids that are in need of love, care, and guidance, without me having to add more just for the sake of having my own. I have felt this way since I was a child myself.

Interestingly, I've also always felt that my body probably wouldn't handle that well, and there's also the sense of not wanting to pass on certain genetic traits/family patterns...Something I've felt quite intensely since I was in my teens. My feelings on that have not changed (in my 30s now).

ETA: Wow @ the similarities here (e.g. Libran_dream too).



Lots of astrological themes popping up here, I agree! I didn't think of it before but now that you mention it, I also have Vesta near my ASC. It's too wide an angle to count as a conjunction for an asteroid(about 8°) but it is the first body in my chart, which I personally consider important though I know not every astrologer thinks the same.

quote:
Libra, 2nd house, conjunct Moon, square Saturn, sextile Mercury, square Chiron. Hm, another t-square.


Hm, how do you interpret this for yourself? I'd think the squares from Saturn and Chiron would really slow this expression down, sort of make the energy doubt itself too much, even though it's right on your nurturing Moon.

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starrynight
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posted August 10, 2014 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for starrynight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is what I heard can point at not wanting to have kids:

- Uranus in 5th house, either wanting a ton of kids or not wanting any
- Gemini, Virgo, Leo on the cusp of 5th house
- to a smaller extent, Aries, Sagittarius and Aquarius on the cusp of 5th
- Moon in Gemini, Virgo, Leo (barren signs), also maybe Aries, Sagittarius and Aquarius
- Moon in harsh aspect to Mars, Saturn in natal
- Moon in conjunction or harsh aspect to Uranus in natal
- Venus contacting Neptune in any way
- North Node in barren signs (Gemini, Virgo, Leo)
- Pluto in 4th (no idea why just smth I remembered from somewhere)
- Saturn in 5th or ruling 5th

Adding stuff as I’m reading comments. Yeah I like lists.

- Moon sq. Venus
- Moon sq. Saturn
- malefics in the 5th
- Mars conj Saturn
- opposites on the 5-11 axis

What I'm curious about is the astrological difference between someone who wants but can't, and someone who doesn't want them. Because many of those factors also point at childlessness, i.e. not being able to due to health or fate. For example, the ruler of 5th in either 8th or 12 or in aspect to Saturn might mean it's difficult to have a child but doesn't seem to affect wanting to/not wanting to.

* * * about myself * * *

I never wanted children. I like them just fine, I just don’t need any for myself. It’s not something I often think about, and I’m not conflicted about it either. It’s just a lack of interest – a whatever reaction.

Moon opp Uranus on the 11H/5H axis
Moon opp Mars on the 11H/5H axis
Uranus in 5H
Mars in 5H
Moon in Gemini
Venus in Virgo square Neptune in 5H
North Node (Leo, 1H) square Chiron (Taurus, 10H)

I don’t have any harsh aspects to my Saturn (Libra, 3H) aside from a very wide Saturn opp MC.

My 5th house has Scorpio on cusp and is the most active house of my chart. Its ruler Mars sits inside, its secondary ruler is Pluto is in Libra 4H. My 4th house is active enough, it has Pluto and Sun inside. I’m very focused on my creative occupation. I define myself through my art even though I’m not enjoying large amounts of public success yet.
This is to say that an active 5th house might mean a different path, too, the desire for creative stuff, not for children.

I also have triple Moon trines: Moon trine Venus and Saturn and Jupiter. They are supposed to work like an active 5th but nope #2. Not a factor in this chart. My Venus conj Jupiter--nope #3.

* * * another example * * *

Here’s an example of a woman who is in her 30s and never wanted kids even though she’s married and a housewife by choice. She is someone I know personally.

5th house in Aries, Mars in early Taurus in 5H, no other planets
North Node in Leo in 8H
Moon (Cancer, 8H) square Saturn (Libra, on MC)
That’s it.

Mars only conj Sun (in 6H) and sextile Moon. Moon doesn’t contact Uranus or Chiron. No Gemini/Virgo placements.

And she’s a Taurus Sun with Taurus Venus and Cancer Moon. That’s like, a childbearing supercombo. Nope.

quote:
Originally posted by libran_dream:
So a question - where is everyone's Ceres and what is she doing?

Woman from my example: Ceres in Cancer in 8th 20 deg away from her Moon in same sign and house. Trine Uranus, square Pluto.

My Ceres is in late Cancer in 12th, only thing in that house. Trine Uranus, square Pluto-Lilith.

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starrynight
Knowflake

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posted August 10, 2014 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for starrynight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also a super fast celebrity analysis.
Cameron Diaz always said she never wanted any.

Virgo Sun conj Mars (but lots of placements in fertile signs too)
Uranus in Libra 4H
5H has Scorpio on cusp, Neptune in Sag inside, ruler Mars in Virgo 2H, ruler Pluto in Libra 3H
NN in Cap 7H
Saturn in Gemini 11H trine Uranus
Moon (Taurus, 11th) bi-quintile Uranus
yet Moon sextile Venus at 0 deg

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I'm so cappy
Knowflake

Posts: 8255
From: Saturn (summer house on Chiron)
Registered: Nov 2012

posted August 10, 2014 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I'm so cappy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
Hahaha, awesome. Yeah, I consider myself more than a little quirky. And thank you. /hug/ I appreciate that. I have chronic head aches, neck aches etc., got a bad one today from stress but the painkillers are helping a bit. I'll probably sleep soon. Too bad they make me so tired and foggy!

Ouch...I'm sorry to read that. If traditional medicine doesn't help, how about something less conventional? If I were you I'd try reiki and pranic healing. Damn, I wish I was already attuned, I'd send you some energy.

quote:
Where's your Vesta?

This is a question for everyone, right? Taurus Vesta in the 9th opposite Pluto (4) and trine Neptune.

quote:
Hm, how do you interpret this for yourself? I'd think the squares from Saturn and Chiron would really slow this expression down, sort of make the energy doubt itself too much, even though it's right on your nurturing Moon.

It's not right on my Moon, the orb is 4. I can look after others well if I want to but that's irrelevant in this case.

------------------
I'm sooo happy! I mean, cappy.

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I'm so cappy
Knowflake

Posts: 8255
From: Saturn (summer house on Chiron)
Registered: Nov 2012

posted August 10, 2014 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I'm so cappy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
My 5th house has Scorpio on cusp and is the most active house of my chart. Its ruler Mars sits inside, its secondary ruler is Pluto is in Libra 4H.

It's the other way round Pluto is the ruler and Mars is the co-ruler.

quote:
This is to say that an active 5th house might mean a different path, too, the desire for creative stuff, not for children.

My packed 5th house agrees.

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I'm sooo happy! I mean, cappy.

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libran_dream
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posted August 10, 2014 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libran_dream     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also have a Venus/Neptune square that I forgot to mention. I always completely forget about that one, how apropos...

quote:
Originally posted by starrynight:
Woman from my example: Ceres in Cancer in 8th 20 deg away from her Moon in same sign and house. Trine Uranus, square Pluto.

My Ceres is in late Cancer in 12th, only thing in that house. Trine Uranus, square Pluto-Lilith.



Interesting how you both have those aspects. Are you close in birth date?

I also have a H8 North Node, like your friend. I do feel that having biological children is not my path. Like your friend, I also have lots of astrological fertility signifiers: Taurus Sun, Taurus NN, Moon trine Venus, Venus sextile Mars, Moon in second house, Ceres trine Jupiter...
Genetic ones as well. My grandmother had 10 kids, no one in my family has ever struggled with fertility. I "look" very fertile. So for me it was a personal decision rather than a biological thing that was determined for me.

quote:
Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
This is a question for everyone, right? Taurus Vesta in the 9th opposite Pluto (4) and trine Neptune.

The Pluto opposition seems important, though it depends on your chart of course.

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MorpHnStorM
Knowflake

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Registered: Oct 2013

posted August 10, 2014 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MorpHnStorM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for starting this thread and sharing, sweet-scorpion! It is nice to be able to talk to others that feel the same way we do.

Here are a few other bits and pieces from my chart:
Ceres in Aries/11th conj. Pholus and qux Mars. My Mercury is also in Aries/11th, but it's 6 degrees away from Ceres.
North Node in Gemini/12th loosely conj. Chiron (4 degrees).
I also forgot to mention that my Moon-IC is in Virgo (with MC-BML-etc. in Pisces).
Aqua rules my 9th with Uranus (which is near my SNode) and Neptune in my 6th.
Pluto is also in my 5th (opp Mercury), along with Saturn, Mars, and Vx (all in Scorpio).

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starrynight
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posted August 10, 2014 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for starrynight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by libran_dream:
Interesting how you both have those aspects. Are you close in birth date?

I also have a H8 North Node, like your friend. I do feel that having biological children is not my path. Like your friend, I also have lots of astrological fertility signifiers: Taurus Sun, Taurus NN, Moon trine Venus, Venus sextile Mars, Moon in second house, Ceres trine Jupiter...
Genetic ones as well. My grandmother had 10 kids, no one in my family has ever struggled with fertility. I "look" very fertile. So for me it was a personal decision rather than a biological thing that was determined for me.



Yes, born just a couple years apart.

This fertility thing is super interesting, though of course we don't have enough research. Some people might be fertile without wanting to actually put it to use, others might be both infertile and unwilling. There has to be a difference in natal charts.

quote:
Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
[QUOTE]My 5th house has Scorpio on cusp and is the most active house of my chart. Its ruler Mars sits inside, its secondary ruler is Pluto is in Libra 4H.

It's the other way round Pluto is the ruler and Mars is the co-ruler.
[/QUOTE]
At least I remembered to put Pluto in there, I'm way too attached to Mars.

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sweet-scorpion
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From: CO, USA
Registered: Apr 2012

posted August 10, 2014 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by libran_dream:
I know what you mean about the Moon-Uranus aspect, especially when it comes to needing to be away from family to feel truly free. So strange. I also get really jittery with too much routine, even though I know I need it. I attribute this to my Gemini Mars usually, but I guess the Uranus-Moon is a pretty big part of it.

I am actually not very Neptunian at all, or at least I don't think so. A transit maybe. But it might be that you have something on or near Capricorn 3°, which is where my Neptune is!

It's so interesting that we found common threads to this topic, so we have
- H5 empty or with malefics
- Moon-Chiron link
- Moon-Saturn link
- potentially a strong Vesta placement

Where's your Vesta?


Uranus-Moon aspects do seem to be connected to a hatred of routine and anything conventional. This is, after all, an 'Aquarian' moon, and if Aquarius hates anything it's pointless structure and systems that oppress creativity and freedom! Gemini Mars can indicate nervous energy overall, I think. I have Mars-Mercury and this reminds me of Mars in Gemini/Virgo. I feel the same way. I have issues with nervous energy.

I don't have anything in Capricorn except my generational planets, Neptune conj. Uranus. :') My Vesta is in the 7th in Cancer, trine Saturn [1 dg.], sq. Sun [3 dg].

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sweet-scorpion
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posted August 10, 2014 06:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by starrynight:
This is what I heard can point at not wanting to have kids:

- Uranus in 5th house, either wanting a ton of kids or not wanting any
- Gemini, Virgo, Leo on the cusp of 5th house
- to a smaller extent, Aries, Sagittarius and Aquarius on the cusp of 5th
- Moon in Gemini, Virgo, Leo (barren signs), also maybe Aries, Sagittarius and Aquarius
- Moon in harsh aspect to Mars, Saturn in natal
- Moon in conjunction or harsh aspect to Uranus in natal
- Venus contacting Neptune in any way
- North Node in barren signs (Gemini, Virgo, Leo)
- Pluto in 4th (no idea why just smth I remembered from somewhere)
- Saturn in 5th or ruling 5th

Adding stuff as I’m reading comments. Yeah I like lists.

- Moon sq. Venus
- Moon sq. Saturn
- malefics in the 5th
- Mars conj Saturn
- opposites on the 5-11 axis

[b]What I'm curious about is the astrological difference between someone who wants but can't, and someone who doesn't want them. Because many of those factors also point at childlessness, i.e. not being able to due to health or fate. For example, the ruler of 5th in either 8th or 12 or in aspect to Saturn might mean it's difficult to have a child but doesn't seem to affect wanting to/not wanting to.

* * * about myself * * *

I never wanted children. I like them just fine, I just don’t need any for myself. It’s not something I often think about, and I’m not conflicted about it either. It’s just a lack of interest – a whatever reaction.

Moon opp Uranus on the 11H/5H axis
Moon opp Mars on the 11H/5H axis
Uranus in 5H
Mars in 5H
Moon in Gemini
Venus in Virgo square Neptune in 5H
North Node (Leo, 1H) square Chiron (Taurus, 10H)

I don’t have any harsh aspects to my Saturn (Libra, 3H) aside from a very wide Saturn opp MC.

My 5th house has Scorpio on cusp and is the most active house of my chart. Its ruler Mars sits inside, its secondary ruler is Pluto is in Libra 4H. My 4th house is active enough, it has Pluto and Sun inside. I’m very focused on my creative occupation. I define myself through my art even though I’m not enjoying large amounts of public success yet.
This is to say that an active 5th house might mean a different path, too, the desire for creative stuff, not for children.

I also have triple Moon trines: Moon trine Venus and Saturn and Jupiter. They are supposed to work like an active 5th but nope #2. Not a factor in this chart. My Venus conj Jupiter--nope #3.

* * * another example * * *

Here’s an example of a woman who is in her 30s and never wanted kids even though she’s married and a housewife by choice. She is someone I know personally.

5th house in Aries, Mars in early Taurus in 5H, no other planets
North Node in Leo in 8H
Moon (Cancer, 8H) square Saturn (Libra, on MC)
That’s it.

Mars only conj Sun (in 6H) and sextile Moon. Moon doesn’t contact Uranus or Chiron. No Gemini/Virgo placements.

And she’s a Taurus Sun with Taurus Venus and Cancer Moon. That’s like, a childbearing supercombo. Nope.

Woman from my example: Ceres in Cancer in 8th 20 deg away from her Moon in same sign and house. Trine Uranus, square Pluto.

My Ceres is in late Cancer in 12th, only thing in that house. Trine Uranus, square Pluto-Lilith.[/B]


Thank you so much for providing this extensive list. It's OK, I like listing too. Must be a Gemini/Virgo thing [My Moon is in Virgo]. It's very helpful. In relation to my own experience, a lot on the list rings true for me. I have Aries on the 5H Cusp. I have Moon is conj. Chiron, similar to Saturn and Uranus [it's in between]. I don't have a harsh Uranus-Moon aspect, but the trine can still prove difficult for me.

I'm also interested in how placements/aspects differ between someone who doesn't want to have kids vs. someone who wants them but can't have them.

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sweet-scorpion
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From: CO, USA
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posted August 10, 2014 06:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by starrynight:
Also a super fast celebrity analysis.
Cameron Diaz always said she never wanted any.

Virgo Sun conj Mars (but lots of placements in fertile signs too)
Uranus in Libra 4H
5H has Scorpio on cusp, Neptune in Sag inside, ruler Mars in Virgo 2H, ruler Pluto in Libra 3H
NN in Cap 7H
Saturn in Gemini 11H trine Uranus
Moon (Taurus, 11th) bi-quintile Uranus
yet Moon sextile Venus at 0 deg


Thanks for this! 4H Uranus definitely points to someone who may prefer a unique/eccentric home life [or had one growing up] and thus doesn't want kids, traditional marriage, etc.

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sweet-scorpion
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From: CO, USA
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posted August 10, 2014 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Ouch...I'm sorry to read that. If traditional medicine doesn't help, how about something less conventional? If I were you I'd try reiki and pranic healing. Damn, I wish I was already attuned, I'd send you some energy.

Thanks, it's somewhat better today but I'm struggling with maintaining my stress, so I think that's why it's happening. Thanks for the recommendations. I'm going to try reiki healing some time soon, also acupuncture.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted August 10, 2014 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MorpHnStorM:
Thank you for starting this thread and sharing, sweet-scorpion! It is nice to be able to talk to others that feel the same way we do.

Here are a few other bits and pieces from my chart:
Ceres in Aries/11th conj. Pholus and qux Mars. My Mercury is also in Aries/11th, but it's 6 degrees away from Ceres.
North Node in Gemini/12th loosely conj. Chiron (4 degrees).
I also forgot to mention that my Moon-IC is in Virgo (with MC-BML-etc. in Pisces).
Aqua rules my 9th with Uranus (which is near my SNode) and Neptune in my 6th.
Pluto is also in my 5th (opp Mercury), along with Saturn, Mars, and Vx (all in Scorpio).


You're welcome! And thank you. I'm glad this thread is well received and supportive. It seems like Pluto, Saturn in particular, in the 5th can lead to a lot of issues with kids or not wanting kids at all. Maybe those with 5H Saturn in the natal can sense how much of a burden kids will be somehow to them, so they avoid having them altogether?

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