posted February 23, 2015 03:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by venus2tinkerbell:
Ami when you have time can you please describe the differences?

Because to me 1st house seems to describe "how", while 12th house seems to describe "what"...

My first house ruler is in 12, Cancer.

eta: I guess you could say that if it feels like 12th house then go with that, but I actually do want to pick this apart and be sure I am not deluding myself, because I will make some big decisions based on these placements (among others).

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If a planet is within 10 degrees of the ASC, it counts as 1st house/conj the ASC.

This is VERY different. The planets conj the ASC are very visible to others and felt by you, as well.

The planets in the 12th House are very hard for people to access and kind of thorns in the flesh, imo.

In the opinion of many classical astrologers, they are the single hardest things in the chart

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posted February 23, 2015 04:14 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
If a planet is within 10 degrees of the ASC, it counts as 1st house/conj the ASC.

This is VERY different. The planets conj the ASC are very visible to others and felt by you, as well.

The planets in the 12th House are very hard for people to access and kind of thorns in the flesh, imo.

In the opinion of many classical astrologers, they are the single hardest things in the chart

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thank you, Ami

posted February 23, 2015 04:33 PM            

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posted February 23, 2015 04:43 PM            

I have some characteristics of a 12H Venus (private, social awkward, don't feel 100percent comfortable in public, keep my love life very much to myself, got married without telling people, etc), but not a whole lot of the negative outcomes. I've had very good relationships besides some teen angst it's generally been positive.

So, I've decided I have "12H Venus light" (tm).

posted February 23, 2015 04:47 PM            

No. There is no conflict between any houses. Remember, the energies of astrology are primarily the planets. Planets give off light. Therefore a planet in the 12th house can give light that reaches easily into an adjacent house.

How can light possibly create conflicts?

The notion of such conflicts comes from believing that because we draw lines on a chart to delineate boundaries for each house that this means planets are imprisoned there. No. Light is not imprisoned. To believe in such conflicts is to believe more in lines drawn on a chart and get caught up in either/or dilemmas of duality than to understand energy.

Practically speaking, as it pertains to your chart, the key is always to ensure the Asc sign and degree are correct. "Correct" has nothing to do with whether you have taken a specific time from a birth record. It has to do with very discriminating confirmation gathered over time for both the Asc sign and degree. Without that, we are speaking only hypothetically.

posted February 23, 2015 04:51 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Bottom line, don't wish for 12th House planets. They are a big struggle xx

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I'm looking forward to reexamining this assertion. The ruler of my 1st house is in Cancer 12th house. With guidance and discipline, I see liberation, leadership, and exaltation in these placements.

posted February 23, 2015 04:59 PM            

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Does a conjunction to the asc take away from 12th house planet energy?

[b]No. There is no conflict between any houses. Remember, the energies of astrology are primarily the planets. Planets give off light. Therefore a planet in the 12th house can give light that reaches easily into an adjacent house.

How can light possibly create conflicts?

The notion of such conflicts comes from believing that because we draw lines on a chart to delineate boundaries for each house that this means planets are imprisoned there. No. Light is not imprisoned. To believe in such conflicts is to believe more in lines drawn on a chart and get caught up in either/or dilemmas of duality than to understand energy.

Practically speaking, as it pertains to your chart, the key is always to ensure the Asc sign and degree are correct. "Correct" has nothing to do with whether you have taken a specific time from a birth record. It has to do with very discriminating confirmation gathered over time for both the Asc sign and degree. Without that, we are speaking only hypothetically.

[/B]

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Your contribution is much appreciated. Thank you Kannon!

posted February 23, 2015 05:07 PM            

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:

Planets give off light. Therefore a planet in the 12th house can give light that reaches easily into an adjacent house.

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posted February 24, 2015 07:15 AM            

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Originally posted by EmGem:
uranus conjunct scorpio ascendant here..... if ever there was a freedom/closeness dilemma
now that i look closely at my chart i can see it's in my 12th house and conjunct by 2 degrees to my ascendant. sooooo not sure what this means.... would i feel it more as a 12th house energy or 1st? hmmmmm

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hey EmGem, I have Uranus in Scorpio in the 4th. Uranus in Scorpio is a huge blessing from what I've read and experienced. I am embracing Kannon's view on this, so with Uranus in 12 conjunct Asc, you have that planet shedding its light and energy on both 12 & 1. I am starting to think that with a planet in 12 but spreading its light into 1, you have the gifts (and challenges) of 12, but also the opportunity to share those gifts and enlightenment through yourself, 1. My experience is that you will have a tough time learning about the spiritual benefits of a 12th house placement through western astrological descriptions. You will also struggle finding these benefits through Vedic astrology because I am not sure Vedic astrologers consider the outer planets important. Uranus in 12 is a hard one. But I think it's a gift and blessing you dont want to ignore. In a way I guess it's fitting that the benefits of Uranus (and the outer planets) should be the hardest. You might find that while Mercury in 12 allows someone to communicate with the unseen, Uranus in 12 actually allows you to......LOL!

posted February 24, 2015 07:18 AM            

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Originally posted by LucieLemonade:
So, I've decided I have "12H Venus light" (tm).

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posted February 24, 2015 07:50 AM            

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
But even if I have a light on in another room, I see it and it lights up some of the room.
But the source is still very much in the other room, no question.
Ya follow me? LOL

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lol. I like that.

yeah. You're right. That's a good and beautiful thing in my opinion.

posted February 24, 2015 01:51 PM            

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
I have Venus in 12th House conjunct my AC. I've definitely experienced a lot of the (negative) 12H Venus themes in my life, and identify a lot with other people's experiences with their 12H Venus (for example, there's a great thread about it on this forum by peony).

So I'm not sure it's as black-and-white as "it has this House's or that House's energy". It should be a combination or interplay between both. From my personal experience, my 12H Venus events were lessons which sent me on the right path and aligned me with my life's purpose, or at least with my higher self. Since the 12H is the House of the unconscious, these placements might show some subconscious patterns we still need to deal with in order to unlock the AC conjunction or 1H energy? Just guessing Pluto's prominent in my chart too, and I've been all about the subconscious lately.

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beautiful! Thanks SaturnFan. I'm experiencing the same thing.

I don't know how I missed this post earlier...

posted February 24, 2015 10:08 PM            

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Originally posted by venus2tinkerbell:
hey EmGem, I have Uranus in Scorpio in the 4th. Uranus in Scorpio is a huge blessing from what I've read and experienced. I am embracing Kannon's view on this, so with Uranus in 12 conjunct Asc, you have that planet shedding its light and energy on both 12 & 1. I am starting to think that with a planet in 12 but spreading its light into 1, you have the gifts (and challenges) of 12, but also the opportunity to share those gifts and enlightenment through yourself, 1. My experience is that you will have a tough time learning about the spiritual benefits of a 12th house placement through western astrological descriptions. You will also struggle finding these benefits through Vedic astrology because I am not sure Vedic astrologers consider the outer planets important. Uranus in 12 is a hard one. But I think it's a gift and blessing you dont want to ignore. In a way I guess it's fitting that the benefits of Uranus (and the outer planets) should be the hardest. You might find that while Mercury in 12 allows someone to communicate with the unseen, Uranus in 12 actually allows you to......LOL!

Good luck EmGem!

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thank you! a blessing is indeed how I plan to look at it. It seems that with my sun in the 8th, scorpio rising and scorpio uranus I'm destined for discovering the underworld lol!

posted February 25, 2015 01:38 AM            

I have North node , Mars in leo and jupiter in virgo all in 12th house. my virgo asc is at 2.

I am coming to understand that nobody can really tell you its good or bad. From experience its a very bizarre thing. Its as if we can turn the energy of the planets on AND off.

posted February 25, 2015 08:12 AM            

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Originally posted by tbelle:
Its as if we can turn the energy of the planets on AND off.

we need to "grab" this energy and pull it into the asc, if you will. I think 12th house planets barely at the asc , are energy sources that we need to learn how to use,or perhaps learn to control.

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^ this!

tbelle you touched on understanding that has been trying to develop into a thought in my mind. Thank you. I love hearing from those of you with 12th house planets, and also 12th house conjunct Asc.

posted February 25, 2015 09:12 AM            

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Originally posted by tbelle:
good question...I cannot answer per se, but i can tell you my experience.

I have North node , Mars in leo and jupiter in virgo all in 12th house. my virgo asc is at 2.

I am coming to understand that nobody can really tell you its good or bad. From experience its a very bizarre thing. Its as if we can turn the energy of the planets on AND off.

we need to "grab" this energy and pull it into the asc, if you will. I think 12th house planets barely at the asc , are energy sources that we need to learn how to use,or perhaps learn to control.

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I think this is true. I have a horribly useless 12H Mars (not conj ASC) sextile moon/merc. I keep reading that this is a great energy that you have to learn to call up.... What?! How do I do that!?! I need a users manual!

With it in the 12th probably means how to call this energy up is even more hidden than if it were in different houses.

posted February 25, 2015 12:10 PM            

Planets in the 1st house are those that are impressed more upon the kinesthetic mechanisms of the body and the self-identification of the ego, making strong marks in the person's conscious self-expression.

1st house = house of life, so planets here relate to beginnings and strong emphasis for developing self-identity and pushing through.

By contrast, 12th house = house of endings (as contrasted with the 6th house of the body-based unconscious).

Planets in the 12th, having past their peak such influence relate to past influences that are still being worked on, put into action, but from a subconscious place, i.e., more subtle. This is more a finishing action and relates to the so-called 'karma' associated with the 12th house.

So that establishes...

1.) A planet in the 1st while the Asc is still applying to it is in a stronger position of influence than a planet of equal distance (still conjunct) from the Asc but in the 12th. It builds into conscious application and self-identity. "Nearing light", as from a train approaching you in the tunnel.

2.) A planet separated from the 1st and in the 12th is more subtle and works from a more subconscious place rather than a conscious one, in a finishing dynamic. "Fading light" as from a train having just past you in the tunnel.

A conjunction can be seen as the energetic point at which the train is still upon you and passing by.

Of course, while these definitions are accurate and workable in theory, it all depends on exactly how accurate the Asc of the chart in question actually is. As I have said over and over...

An Asc in a birth chart is not merely the meeting of the eastern horizon with the ecliptic (sun's path) as is done in standard calculation. That is a mundane Asc. There is a lot more involved for a birth chart. The Asc represents the moment of inter-dimensional exchange and the dominant factor involved there is the moment of choice by the incoming soul, not a process of the mother's biological function. This means that the correct Asc sign/degree is always hinged to the observable birth moment, but not synonymous with it, having almost always some variation from it -- by less than a degree, but often by an entire sign or more.

posted February 25, 2015 01:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LucieLemonade:
I think this is true. I have a horribly useless 12H Mars (not conj ASC) sextile moon/merc. I keep reading that this is a great energy that you have to learn to call up.... What?! How do I do that!?! I need a users manual!

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Mars trines your NN in AQUA, 4H. A clue?