posted February 25, 2015 03:59 PM            

There is no simple answer. It requires serious skill and the ability to utilize concepts that seem contradictory to modern and traditional astrological practice.

Yes, it is possible but rarely for a person with average astrological understanding. Its a crap shoot. I could name many well-known astrologers who don't even have their own birth charts correct (but I won't).

Most of the time house positions are at least partly misleading and inject unnecessary, useless information that makes astrology more convoluted to the layperson or student than it needs to be.

The best I can tell you is ...

If you are asking for your own chart, first write down all the character qualities you can about your personality (including what loved ones say), physical characteristics, etc. Then compare this with various descriptions of the Rising Signs, as you see linked below on my site (and Planets). Don't expect to immediately get an answer. Be patient.

If you are looking to develop the skill to do this for others as an astrological practice to help others ...

1. Make your perspective PERSON-focused, not astrology/chart focused. The person is in the foreground of this effort. First bring them into focus best you can. Don't look past them at faraway planets, stars and zodiac and attempt to impose simplistic stereotypes upon them.

2. Observe people intently and learn how the Rising Signs correlate to physical features and human expression. Study, study, study this, but do not grasp hold of the information as if it were factual or gospel truth. Don't see Rising Sign profiles as outlines for strict conformity. Instead work towards a fluid, intuitive use of the information.

3. Learn the planetary principles well enough to understand how to recognize them when they are emphasized in a person's chart at/near the Asc/MC. This is important because a person who supposedly has Capricorn rising could in fact be Sag rising with Saturn closely conjunct/parallel/square/opposite their correct Asc.

4. Include the declinations (parallels, contra-parallels) in your learning. And with this you may have to work on increasing your brain power. I've nearly given up at times in this work, but finally realized what I needed was better nutritional support for my brain. Do whatever it takes. Don't expect it to be easy.

5. Reject all tricks, gimmicks or 'easy' methods for rectification. There are none. Period.

In both cases (your chart and others) you may want to get a copy of The Rising Sign Problem by John Willner. Think of it as an introductory text, not a gospel truth final word.

posted February 25, 2015 09:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LucieLemonade:
I think this is true. I have a horribly useless 12H Mars (not conj ASC) sextile moon/merc. I keep reading that this is a great energy that you have to learn to call up.... What?! How do I do that!?! I need a users manual!

With it in the 12th probably means how to call this energy up is even more hidden than if it were in different houses.

---

In one of my threads, or at least I think one of mine, another user and I arrived at the point that once you discover the North Node and your purpose you will find your Mars in the 12th to be a lot more functional.

My memory is often more reliable than this but I cannot name the user or the thread. But we both have Mars in the 12th. My Mars began working much better once I found a purpose around my 11th Pisces NN, and the user found their Mars functional once they built a purpose around their 2nd house NN.

The rationale for this is that Mars in the 12th suffers from a clear vision in its purpose. Compare Mars in the 10th - this person would find action toward the career easy. Mars in the 6th, a hard worker, maybe a gym rat. And so on. Most houses have clearly defined purpose.

posted February 25, 2015 09:45 PM            

He doesn't over attribute, and he balances the tells of a sign by their physical nature and mannerisms.

Just using his short paragraphs has made my accuracy at guessing people's ascendants much higher. I was able to impress my girlfriend by guessing her Libra Asc due to Kannon's physical description and mannerisms. Also, and this may prove useful, in this instance I felt the energy of her Ascendant conjunct my Venus in Libra and that was a huge tip off. The feeling of an aspect's energy can be a huge tell if you're trying to figure out whether or not you have the person's ascendant in the right sign. So if you supposedly have a Neptune trine ASC in synastry with the person and you don't feel that wonderful Neptuney connection when you make eye contact then it may be safe to assume you guessed incorrectly.

All this has created a problem. My Scorpio tendency to stare and analyze people has become much much worse.

--------

As for the main question I do not believe a 12th house planet being near the ASC changes it. I have no personal experience with this as my 12th Mars is in the early degrees.

posted February 26, 2015 12:28 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by venus2tinkerbell:
What I am wondering is if the 12th house interpretation would be watered down at all since the planets are conjunct the 1st house cusp. Is there a conflict between 1st and 12th house placements/interpretations?

thanks!

---

Interesting questions. First of all, I find the area around the 1H cusp between the 12H and the Ascendant fascinating. Going from unbounded, spiritual, transcendent and archetypal to personal and individual birth in human form. Unconscious/conscious. Perinatal womb existence/incarnated physical birth.

I don't think that the conjunction to the ASC "takes away from 12H planet energy," but that the planet(s) on or near the cusp are kind of ambidextrous. They have characteristics of both houses. But, I also think the 1H takes precedence over the 12H. I say this because of the significance of the Ascendant in esoteric astrology.

btw, George Lucas and the Dalai Lama have Mercury in the 12H. You're in good company!

posted February 26, 2015 12:40 AM            

Yes, I'd agree.

posted February 26, 2015 12:56 AM            

So it's like, somebody with a twelfth house planet, and I have one of those too, Pluto, in my case, is not really aware of something in their life but it can have tremendous power over them, say an addiction of some kind and they are in denial, or maybe it's an impulse and it lands them in trouble but they are not capable of fully comprehending it. Typical twelfth house dilemma.

posted February 26, 2015 05:04 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
But even if I have a light on in another room, I see it and it lights up some of the room.
But the source is still very much in the other room, no question.
Ya follow me? LOL

---

posted February 26, 2015 02:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
In the opinion of many classical astrologers, they are the single hardest things in the chart.

---

posted February 26, 2015 02:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Bottom line, don't wish for 12th House planets. They are a big struggle xx

---

You're right, Ami Anne, 12H planets do entail struggle. But there's another side to it. My 12H planets have also given me a great deal and I wouldn't trade them for anything. Venus in the 12H square Neptune has taught me about a Love that is so vast it contains all things, and though I am a poor student, continues to teach me about unconditional love.

posted February 26, 2015 03:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by peony:
You're right, Ami Anne, 12H planets do entail struggle. But there's another side to it. My 12H planets have also given me a great deal and I wouldn't trade them for anything. Venus in the 12H square Neptune has taught me about a Love that is so vast it contains all things, and though I am a poor student, continues to teach me about unconditional love.

---

posted February 26, 2015 06:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by peony:
Mars trines your NN in AQUA, 4H. A clue?

---

No!! LOL. Cuz I don't understand NN in Aqua, 4th! I think I even have a thread asking about that. Sigh.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Koho:
In one of my threads, or at least I think one of mine, another user and I arrived at the point that once you discover the North Node and your purpose you will find your Mars in the 12th to be a lot more functional.

My memory is often more reliable than this but I cannot name the user or the thread. But we both have Mars in the 12th. My Mars began working much better once I found a purpose around my 11th Pisces NN, and the user found their Mars functional once they built a purpose around their 2nd house NN.

The rationale for this is that Mars in the 12th suffers from a clear vision in its purpose. Compare Mars in the 10th - this person would find action toward the career easy. Mars in the 6th, a hard worker, maybe a gym rat. And so on. Most houses have clearly defined purpose.

I remember the thread now. It was a thread comparing Mars in 12th, Mars in Pisces, and a Mars-Neptune aspect. Which I believe are not the same thing once you get down to the nuance of it.

---

Thank you so much for this!! I'm going to see if I can't find my thread on NN Aqua 4 if anyone wants to help give me a clue.

<3

posted February 26, 2015 07:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LucieLemonade:
Thank you so much for this!! I'm going to see if I can't find my thread on NN Aqua 4 if anyone wants to help give me a clue.

<3

---

Absolutely happy to help someone get their 12th Mars engine running. It was a plague for me until I figured it out.

If you're having trouble figuring out your NN just get back to the basics and define each piece to the best of your ability.

Figure out what the North Node means, try to understand Aquarius, and then understand that you need to apply this to the 4th house realm.

It is more difficult than I make it seem but it will be a start. Basically if I teleport to you and ask you these questions you should be able to perfectly tell me what they are individually and then you can begin to blend them well.

Eventually you can pay attention to the aspects but it is fruitless without a great understanding of the basic meanings.

posted February 27, 2015 03:52 AM            

I'll also look for the Mars thread you mentioned and continue the discussion there so I don't continue to derail this thread.

<3

posted March 03, 2015 03:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Koho:
Absolutely happy to help someone get their 12th Mars engine running. It was a plague for me until I figured it out.

If you're having trouble figuring out your NN just get back to the basics and define each piece to the best of your ability.

Figure out what the North Node means, try to understand Aquarius, and then understand that you need to apply this to the 4th house realm.

It is more difficult than I make it seem but it will be a start. Basically if I teleport to you and ask you these questions you should be able to perfectly tell me what they are individually and then you can begin to blend them well.

Eventually you can pay attention to the aspects but it is fruitless without a great understanding of the basic meanings.

---

very interesting, Koho. My north node is in the 12th as well...3 degrees from my 12 leo mars! Ive got an interesting little cluster ( nn mars jup ) at the tail end minutes from the ASC...

Im still figuring it out. for me, I really feel like my mars is awakening...sounds strange but I find the more i focus on it the more I recognize its energy. ive been successful at ignoring it for too many years. times are changing for me.