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Author
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Topic: Is astrology sometimes a little biased against ethnicity and homosexuality?
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Geminiyoungster
Knowflake Posts: 391
From:
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted November 03, 2015 11:49 AM
  
I really wish sometimes that we can have more conversations/open dialogue about race and homosexuality.
Sometimes I feel that astrology can be biased and vague when it comes to looks, especially with astrological aspects. For example, some say that gemini has more of silky hair and wide eyes? How in the hell writes stuff like this? What if your African american (like me) and you don't identify with any of the stuff that was given. Some astrology sites are only centered more to Caucasian people than they are to other races. I personally believe that the more darker aspects (like moon square pluto or mars) are more worst for people of darker ethnicities and colors because the stigmas that we have with colorism. I mean, I do understand that people can only go by who they are around a lot, but some of the stuff that I read is ridiculous.Now on to homosexuality.. However, even though i'm not gay, but I've read on certain sites that they can not see the connection with astrology. For example, since the ying and yang in astrology is connected to Venus and Mars.. (male and female) I dont understand how some people can count out others because of their gayness, when have of the time Gay people love astrology. (and are good at it) Haha... Any comments on this.. IP: Logged |
Desiring Shadows
Knowflake Posts: 2948
From: UNITED STATES, BABY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted November 03, 2015 11:53 AM
Right??!! I agree about the race thing. So unfair.IP: Logged |
HoodBlaze
Knowflake Posts: 144
From: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
Registered: Jul 2015
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posted November 03, 2015 12:11 PM
Time for you to start reading Frantz FanonIP: Logged |
Desiring Shadows
Knowflake Posts: 2948
From: UNITED STATES, BABY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted November 03, 2015 12:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by HoodBlaze:
Time for you to start reading Frantz Fanon
Who? Lol IP: Logged |
Geminiyoungster
Knowflake Posts: 391
From:
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted November 03, 2015 12:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Desiring Shadows:
Who? Lol
LOL, yess who????/
Wow, he is really caner dominated looking at this chart! IP: Logged |
Aries23Degrees
Knowflake Posts: 2561
From: South Africa
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted November 03, 2015 12:49 PM
Preach!!  But one must also remember that it is not the book that discriminates, but the writer. Astrology is quite literally, the map of the stars. It is the interpreter who is the one who is often bias. So the key now is to be vigilant and discriminatory i.e what we read or hear from the interpreter is only just that: An interpretation IP: Logged |
bananaz
Knowflake Posts: 288
From: Orlando, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2015
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posted November 03, 2015 02:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Preach!! But one must also remember that it is not the book that discriminates, but the writer. Astrology is quite literally, the map of the stars. It is the interpreter who is the one who is often bias. So the key now is to be vigilant and discriminatory i.e what we read or hear from the interpreter is only just that: An interpretation
^ Said Perfectly^ Astrology is not discriminatory. It's the interpreter. IP: Logged |
theunknown
Knowflake Posts: 2622
From:
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted November 03, 2015 02:54 PM
There aren't enough readers or popular astrologers who aren't white.They do exist ... That said I find the appearances apply as well, though obviously not every ethnicity can have blue eyes (typical Aqua description :rolleyes  IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 7271
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted November 03, 2015 06:37 PM
It tends to be Eurocentric, like anything dominated by that, but I wouldn't call it biased (save maybe in a thoughtless way). And as for homosexuality, I think the confusion comes in from those who confuse gender with sexual orientation. Those who don't won't have a problem. One reason I got into astrology for insight is because I took my girlfriend to a psychic fair after a counselor failed to help us (other than to bond making fun of him and his cliches) and the astrologer was very insightful about our lesbian relationship to the point that my partner at the time went from skeptical to amazed. (Oh, and she was blasian, btw, mostly raised by a Korean American family in South LA.) IP: Logged |
Geminiyoungster
Knowflake Posts: 391
From:
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted November 03, 2015 07:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Preach!! But one must also remember that it is not the book that discriminates, but the writer. Astrology is quite literally, the map of the stars. It is the interpreter who is the one who is often bias. So the key now is to be vigilant and discriminatory i.e what we read or hear from the interpreter is only just that: An interpretation
I'm glad agree with me and I totally agree with you!
IP: Logged |
bansheequeen
Knowflake Posts: 1492
From: Beachville, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted November 03, 2015 08:20 PM
Yep. This is exactly why Ive become kind of disillusioned with astrology. They meant well, but I guess they dont understand that people outside of the status quo exist. The thing about things developed in a eurocentric standpoint is that they dont really care to make accommodations for others.Lots of physical descriptions (even though I feel these are bs anyway) are only geared towards white people. So I guess anyone with dark hair and skin is either scorpio or capricorn according to them. Makes SO much sense... I also hate how gendered astrology is. How venus is the woman and mars the man in a relationship dynamic. I prefer astrologers that interpret mars as action and venus as aesthetics... Also... the sun is male and moon is female... suggesting that having a personality is a male thing and having feelings is a female thing. IP: Logged |
Kannon McAfee
Knowflake Posts: 1122
From: Portland, OR - USA
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted November 04, 2015 07:14 PM
Is astrology sometimes a little biased against ethnicity and homosexuality?No, but individual astrologers/students may be. The cosmos as a whole has no biases. These are the mere fluctuations within undeveloped specs of consciousness as experienced within the confines of limited brains. ------------------
The Declinations Guy
Expert Rectification
Click here for Complete Rising Sign Descriptions IP: Logged |
Kannon McAfee
Knowflake Posts: 1122
From: Portland, OR - USA
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted November 04, 2015 07:35 PM
Geminiyoungster,You make some good points. So I'm looking forward to more African American and other folks of varied ethnic backgrounds making observations and putting them into the mix to enlighten the rest of us. I have clients who are gay. My readings for them are no different from readings for anyone else. That is because I speak of relationships and partners, not 'men' or 'women' when it comes to love and attraction. So its not the astrology, but the pronouns of language and respecting others by not making assumptions as to who/what gender they find attractive. Some people are attracted to both. I prefer to not assume, since it makes an ass-of-me. ------------------
The Declinations Guy
Expert Rectification
Click here for Complete Rising Sign Descriptions IP: Logged |
missblyss
Knowflake Posts: 145
From: san diego, ca, USA
Registered: Oct 2015
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posted November 04, 2015 08:04 PM
omg, i don't know if you guys have gotten into vedic much, but they are the worst in this respect! IP: Logged |
starxd
Knowflake Posts: 60
From:
Registered: Oct 2015
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posted November 05, 2015 01:30 AM
Yes. I've kind of wondered about this. But I've come to the conclusion that it's really more "majority" bias. Not so much discrimination, but a sort of unintentional exclusivity. Ascendant physical descriptions is a good example. But I've also wondered this specifically in relation to Uranian aspects in synastry. Like everyone always says it's indicative of a roller coaster or non-traditional open relationship or something. For sure, I get that. But I always thought that "non-traditional" would traditionally be seen as homosexual, interracial, transcultural, interfaith, etc. Maybe that's a stretch? Vedic is tooooootally heteronormative. IP: Logged |
cchampliss2
Knowflake Posts: 216
From:
Registered: Jul 2014
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posted November 05, 2015 02:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by HoodBlaze:
Time for you to start reading Frantz Fanon
Two things HoodBlaze: 1) I know you're awesome just by the mention of Fanon 2) Fanon is the sh**. IP: Logged |
Sven555
Knowflake Posts: 942
From: UK
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted November 05, 2015 04:03 AM
I think the reason for this is, because alot of medieval books or texts from centuries ago, where published by authors who only wrote texts based on their experiences. It is all down to the author and the social historical situation. They looked down on homosexuality and not sure about different races, but because the world today is alot different, the astrology content has been recycled for an awful long time.So what you read in a 'new' astrology book is probably a compilation of old texts spliced together. ------------------
Beginners Guide to Astrology IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 7271
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted November 05, 2015 04:21 AM
I never really took the physical aspects that seriously anyway. I have decided that it's possible an ASC can "tweak" things a bit (thicker hair and walk, for example), but ultimately, genetics and environment (such as how much food one has access to as well as the diet itself, among many other things) are going to matter more. And that's before counting the ethnicity that's obviously not assumed to be in the target audience. So I've just overlooked it. Me and Mom are both Leo ASC (and I believe same decan) and she's taller and paler than me and most women in the family. I'm shorter than most in the family and have freckles. Why? Diet and lifestyle. While I started to enter puberty, it got cut short, which stopped my growth spurt, while it took Mom a couple years longer to even initiate who went out of her way to avoid food. She stayed out of the sun not wanting to damage her complexion (or look like she worked) while I reveled in it. While she starved herself to be a model, I didn't shy away from food and was very athletic so that she was model slender while I have a more athletic build (though I did get used by a guy trying to draw an elven warrior maid in the tradition of Elfquest). If our ASC affects our looks at all it's that we both have natural manes of thick hair. And we're both described as having a feline walk, but hers is more proud, mine more stealthy, which probably comes from her deciding to be a model from a very young age and imitating the walk whereas being raised by alcoholic parents, I learned the value of stealth. And if we were raised by different people in different circumstances, we'd look different than we do now (even if we retained a thick mane of hair and catlike walk). So I just skip over such sections as trivia...and trivia that isn't always right even when of the target ethnicity (like I know a Gemini Rising who doesn't look younger than her age...though given the stress of her life, maybe she'd look older if she wasn't!). IP: Logged |
Geminiyoungster
Knowflake Posts: 391
From:
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted November 14, 2015 01:48 PM
Bumping this upIP: Logged |
DopGang
Knowflake Posts: 1257
From: <--------- over there.
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted November 14, 2015 02:00 PM
It's Deja Vu! IP: Logged |
Lunar Pisces
Knowflake Posts: 65
From:
Registered: Sep 2015
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posted November 14, 2015 03:13 PM
To rephrase the OP's question is a way that I'm comfortable answering it:Is the contemporary practice of Western astrology framed by white centrism and heteronormativity? Yes. of course it is. Everything in Western society is. The reason why I rephrase it this way is to emphasize two things: -- white centrism puts the perspective of white people in the center of the conversation, marginalizing everyone else. This isn't the same as racism--the systematic oppression of people by race--but it does overlap racism. But the core issue here it to understand that white centrism seeks to make white experience and perspective the NORM while everyone else's experience and perspective is assumed to be contrary, hostile or inferior to the norm. This allows white people (or non-whites who assist white centrism knowingly or otherwise) to exclude and dismiss non-white contributions and keep non-white voices from challenging the norm. In Fanon's writing, he addresses this frequently, BTW. -- heteronormativity covers not just attitudes that marginalize gay people, but also bi, pan, trans, queer and asexual people as well. The term covers how society not only expects us to perform in ways to conform to heterosexual norms regarding sex, but also to norms about gender roles, gender expression, romance and all intimate relationships that uphold a rigid male/female gender binary and male dominate/female submissive conventions that tell us how we are suppose to relate to one another. The term heteronormativity points out that expectations of heterosexual conformity go much, much deeper than our attitudes about two people having sex. It's about how our society is structured around heterosexuality in how we see all our relationships through the lens of gender and sexuality. IP: Logged |
LaceyLeigh
Knowflake Posts: 458
From: New Jersey
Registered: Jul 2014
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posted November 14, 2015 03:14 PM
I agree. It's especially frustrating when astrologist say a certain synastry aspect works best if planet "a" is a man and planet "b" is a woman. It leaves very little interpretation for same sex couples.I've have written about this before, but I also hate those "how to guess someone's rising sign" threads/articles and people start listing eye color and fair skin as identification for a rising sign. It's extremely limiting. IP: Logged |
deepseastar
Newflake Posts: 19
From:
Registered: Oct 2015
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posted November 14, 2015 03:27 PM
In "Message in the Stars," Max Heindel specifically warns against applying the same interpretations to people of all races, since he developed his views from a European (white) perspective. Heindel wasn't perfect at all (the book actually contains some rather racist things) but the general principle still applies. Instead of seeing the Ascendant as a predictor of physical characteristics, it's more accurate to see it as the "aura" someone projects - and that can be the same among people of any race. For what it's worth, I've seen a lot of LGBT people in astrology. (I'm a bisexual trans man, for instance.) But I think there is a tendency to conflate male homosexuality with femininity, and lesbianism with masculinity. But gay men are men and lesbian women are women! It just doesn't make sense and reinforces a very "binary" way of looking at people. I also think the assertion that Mars = male and Venus = female is an oversimplification too - we should really be looking at the specific aspects that each god or goddess represented that have nothing to do with gender. IP: Logged |
m.blade
Knowflake Posts: 967
From:
Registered: Mar 2013
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posted November 15, 2015 10:03 AM
Astrology isn't biased but people can be. Because at the end of the day, the world is just a physical body. We are all spectrums of divine light and of God (even some of the worst people we could think of...)We are all trying the best we can in our life as we burn out our past karmas. IP: Logged |
DopGang
Knowflake Posts: 1257
From: <--------- over there.
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted November 15, 2015 11:41 AM
One thing that I'd like to point out, as it's been brought up.
This is just my view and maybe it'll click somewhere for others.
On the Venus = femininity
Mars = masculinity I don't take it literally. It's symbolism to me. Astrology was discovered in a much different time than ours and some of the symbolism has carried on, yet our world is very different now.
It's really yin and yang. So personally, I wouldn't get caught up in that. But then a lot of people really get worked up over technicality and don't care much for symbolism. IP: Logged |
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