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Author
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Topic: Astrology's rise in popularity and my wavering faith in it...
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shyberry
Knowflake Posts: 159
From: camp flog gnaw
Registered: Oct 2014
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posted November 26, 2015 09:34 PM
  
Hello all, I hope you are doing well and have enjoyed your Thanksgiving! (If you celebrate it)Astrology continues to rise in popularity and more celebrities are willing to share their birth time with no question. I've only come across 2 that I care about who have given their birth times out, but I'm sure there are more. Both Lana Del Rey and Jhene Aiko are astrology lovers. Two of my friends are also into natal astrology and talk about it a lot. A potential therapist I plan on going to next month also talks about it on his Facebook. I've always liked astrology and felt upset when people would write long articles on "why Mars rising doesn't mean anything." I'd quickly skim through the comments that say, "These astrology lovers are no better than religious nuts." and promptly roll my eyes and forget I ever read those things. Seeing Jhene and Lana share their birth chart information stroked an odd chord within me. Hearing my friends mope over their "bad" synastry with their crushes made me feel even more odd. "Aw, his sun is square my moon?! Oh well, I'll just fantasize." "My Mars is conjunct his moon?! I don't want to be an abuser..." "My daughter's moon is afflicted! Will I be a bad mother?!" --> Seeing things like this online really makes me wonder. When I read more articles about what makes good synastry or how to tell if you'll be rich from your natal chart, I feel slightly disgusted. My friend said, "Your moons are compatible so you'll get along." when I told her who my crush was. I thought to myself, "Damn she sounds stupid." My faith in astrology has been wavering for quite some time. It started with Mercury retrograde. I firmly believe Mercury going retrograde affects nothing and laugh when I get emails from astrological newsletters I subscribed to saying, "Mercury's retrograde! Here's how you can live through it!" I posted something about Transit Saturn in my 12th house when I first joined this website, but then I realized I've never "felt" a transit. If I see Neptune squaring my Mars, I don't see "impending doom". I don't see anything. Nothing good happens during beautiful Jupiter transits and nothing bad happens during Saturn transits. Life just IS. At least that is how it is for me. The point of this long post is that since more people are talking about astrology, it makes me feel that it is pointless and even a bit delusional to put so much weight on the planets. Maybe I am just around the wrong people who believe that astrology is the answer for everything. Astrology has helped me gain a small amount of confidence in myself and I studied it A LOT in the past, but now I feel angry when I hear people say that the planets affect us. Much of what is said for Moon in Pisces (my position) can also be applied to Venus in Pisces, Sun conjunct Neptune, Neptune in 1st house...so it lessens all of these planetary aspects and positions since they're all so similar. Moon square Mars = temper, but Mars conjunct Pluto also ='s temper? Has anyone had their faith waver only for it to come back? As much as I'm starting to loathe it, without Astrology, I feel like a big part of me will be gone. IP: Logged |
Seimei
unregistered
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posted November 26, 2015 10:01 PM
we all have free will. Astrology used correctly as a tool for a better use of free will is not taught.
I get rather perturbed at the use of the term
ruler in astrology. The planets signify energies we have to work with in our lives but I AM NOT RULED by them.
There is a lot of astrology misuse, that is
something I see but cannot spend my energy fighting it
One of the biggest issues I see constantly
is people EXPECTING an effect and then WAITING on IT. Most often what they expect is based on what they read about someone else's experience and their reaction to it. In that action of reacting we create our lives. In such cases a limited knowledge of astrology has possibly made life worse because people fail to act or fail to listen to their hearts.
I have been at this off and mostly on for 30 years. I know what you mean by not feeling a transit. Often life is just too damn busy and then we are looking back when it slows down.And a lot of what is written is pure trash that was only written to pull in clients.
We all react differently to the world around us, the events taking place.
If stepping away from astrology for a period , short or long is your path the walk that path. Life is short.If you do that and never look back, that is also your path.
Sweet life to you.------------------
LeekingChee IP: Logged |
yota13
Knowflake Posts: 91
From:
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted November 26, 2015 10:16 PM
editIP: Logged |
Faith
Knowflake Posts: 21405
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted November 26, 2015 10:53 PM
Pop astrology and scientific astrology are two different things and often worlds apart in content and credibility.I can understand getting fed up with pop astrology. But scientific astrology is valuable and proves itself to whoever will take the time to study it. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 70434
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted November 26, 2015 11:05 PM
I never, ever, ever doubt Astrology. The more charts you do, the more it proves itself in every, single detail.The Bible says that every hair on our head is numbered. Likewise, every detail of one's life can be seen in the chart. The only shortcoming would be in the lacks of the Astrologer. No one can ever master Astrology.
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shyberry
Knowflake Posts: 159
From: camp flog gnaw
Registered: Oct 2014
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posted November 26, 2015 11:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Pop astrology and scientific astrology are two different things and often worlds apart in content and credibility.I can understand getting fed up with pop astrology. But scientific astrology is valuable and proves itself to whoever will take the time to study it.
I never even realized that pop astrology was a thing, but it makes sense. Thank you for answering and a big thanks to everyone else who answered to! I'm not discrediting astrology completely, I'm just merely down by the lack of awareness most astrology lovers have in general... Would you say Cafeastrology and basically any site that appears on the first page of google would count towards 'pop astrology'? oh, ya, thanks for answering nicely btw. i was so afraid people were gonna curse me out :') IP: Logged |
polkadotstars
Knowflake Posts: 864
From:
Registered: Feb 2015
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posted November 27, 2015 09:35 AM
I kind of get in those moods too. There's some things I don't identify with in my chart and I don't see true in other people's charts as well. And it is hard for me to fathom the reasoning of Astrology. It sounds completely illogical to me that one's personality is based off of where planets are when they are born. It sounds so irrational. And I have no good explanation for it either. However, I have noticed lately that I can usually pinpoint someone's sun or moon sign within minutes of talking to them. It's almost a game to me now and I laugh when I'm correct about it. And that is when I am reminded that astrology is somehow accurate. Even though I am not sure how or why.. but it is. :-) IP: Logged |
Faith
Knowflake Posts: 21405
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted November 27, 2015 09:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by shyberry:
Would you say Cafeastrology and basically any site that appears on the first page of google would count towards 'pop astrology'?
Yes I do count that as pop astrology, even though in my experience there is a lot of truth to be found at cafeastrology. Those are good, sound readings. Still they can only give you a "ballpark figure" of how placements and aspects play out. The whole chart needs to be considered. A professional astrologer will look at your chart holistically and take many things into account that cafeastrology will not cover. Scientific astrology is more about tracking data, it's cut and dry, it's not trying to guide your life. You may have seen astrology pages that are very boring, purely statistical analysis, teasing out evidence empirically and non-dramatically. Or, for example, when you have a chart rectification done: the astrologer will gather key dates in your life and find the mathematical "code," the angles, that are triggered consistently and with undeniable clarity, through these events. The important dates will prove to be unified mathematically and qualitatively, in relationship to the person who experienced them. That is to say, the exactness of certain aspects, the nature of those aspects (harmonious or stressful), the planets involved, and even the inclusion of "family degrees" or personally-meaningful degrees, will tell the story. I have to believe that, after seeing it time and time again. At the very least, if people will just stay mindful that pop astrology is about probabilities, not absolute truth, and full chart exploration is where the greater truths are to be found, they should be able to keep their heads screwed on tight enough.  IP: Logged |
hannaramaa
unregistered
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posted November 27, 2015 10:18 AM
YES I doubt it all the time. All. the. time. I like talking about it and teaching people I know, but I don't enjoy discussing it with other astrologers anymore. Many of them are fanatics who, ironically, can't think outside of the box. In addition I find a lot of the descriptions I read on other astro sites are way too general. For example, I was on Cafe a few days ago and googled "Sun in Aries Taurus Moon woman" to see what came up. I began reading a description and was really into it thinking "This sounds exactly like me!" only to find out I was reading Sun in Aries, Moon in Aries. My moon doesn't make an aspect to Mars, so I can't even justify why it may have resonated. I don't see signs anymore, I don't ask people when they were born...living like that almost drives you into a state of neurosis if you're not careful. I completely understand where you're coming from, and wonder if part of that anger is from all the years everyone who likes it now told you it was BS. I'd be annoyed too if that were the case.IP: Logged |
missblyss
Knowflake Posts: 891
From:
Registered: May 2016
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posted November 27, 2015 01:33 PM
Yep, 100%. I think astrology can be beneficial at exposing some underlying "shadow-side" psychological patterns.. However, I've found that the majority of people who actually have an interest in astrology are usually already conscious - or at least partially conscious of these sides of themselves. To be honest, I find that when my spiritual practices start to wane I tend to dive more deeply into astrology, trying to find "logical" answers in the imperical side of my brain. When I am deep in my spirituality, I transcend all "patterns" that I may be pulled into, so astrology becomes less relevant. IP: Logged |
Kibriana
Knowflake Posts: 301
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted November 27, 2015 02:19 PM
Something similar happened to me while I was working as a tarot reader. I noticed that people would cling to what was being said during the reading, which in turn made them do noting but sit and wait for future to happen. I realized that I was literally shaping their lives, which was way too much power for me to be comfortable with, so I decided to quit. Astrology has helped me immensely to deal with my shadow side and my natal horoscope is by far the most accurate psychological profile of myself I've ever come across with. I'm also a fan of karmic readings, but that's about it. Using astrology as a purely predictive tool can be just as destructive and misguided as working with any other divination tool. If there's anything I've learned about the future in all these years, it's that it's shaped but wwhat we do or fail to do in the present, so, creating a better future necessarily involves a lot of hard work. Unfortunatelly, most people aren't prepared to do so. Neuroscience would say that it's not their fault, because our brains are set to conserve energy by doing as less as they can, which explains reality TV's mass appeal. But, I'm digressing. I can see why predictive side of astrology and the belief in predeterminated events and celestial influence on our daily lives is so popular. That way, people don't have to think for themselves, and if things go bad, they have a perfect excuse - "it's not me, I'm going through a really rough Mars transit". Some people just can't or won't take responsibility for their lives so they choose to believe that somehow it will magically sort itself on its own. Someone else will take care of it - planets, cards, God, spirits, aliens, or the apocalypse. It's just human nature. IP: Logged |
missblyss
Knowflake Posts: 891
From:
Registered: May 2016
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posted November 27, 2015 02:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kibriana:
Something similar happened to me while I was working as a tarot reader. I noticed that people would cling to what was being said during the reading, which in turn made them do noting but sit and wait for future to happen. I realized that I was literally shaping their lives, which was way too much power for me to be comfortable with, so I decided to quit. Astrology has helped me immensely to deal with my shadow side and my natal horoscope is by far the most accurate psychological profile of myself I've ever come across with. I'm also a fan of karmic readings, but that's about it. Using astrology as a purely predictive tool can be just as destructive and misguided as working with any other divination tool. If there's anything I've learned about the future in all these years, it's that it's shaped but wwhat we do or fail to do in the present, so, creating a better future necessarily involves a lot of hard work. Unfortunatelly, most people aren't prepared to do so. Neuroscience would say that it's not their fault, because our brains are set to conserve energy by doing as less as they can, which explains reality TV's mass appeal. But, I'm digressing. I can see why predictive side of astrology and the belief in predeterminated events and celestial influence on our daily lives is so popular. That way, people don't have to think for themselves, and if things go bad, they have a perfect excuse - "it's not me, I'm going through a really rough Mars transit". Some people just can't or won't take responsibility for their lives so they choose to believe that somehow it will magically sort itself on its own. Someone else will take care of it - planets, cards, God, spirits, aliens, or the apocalypse. It's just human nature.
Yep! 100% I was doing readings for a while too! I realized how the people were literally putting everything I said on such a pedestal, that even my own mistakes could potentially play out in their lives, simply because the power/focus/ belief they had in it. Too karmically risky, so I refuse to do readings in that same way anymore. I notice that a LOT of tarot readers (professional) are overweight, using drugs, or have some type of other negative/destructive outlet. I think it is SUCH a fine line, when you present yourself as coming from a *higher* place of knowing.. The level of trust you are given is so spot on.... It is too much power for me, I don't feel comfortable with it at all anymore.
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Belage
Knowflake Posts: 2495
From: USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 27, 2015 02:51 PM
Astrology is fascinating and uncannily accurate. It is a double edge tool. As an esoteric science, it is best that those who study it do so with the purest of intentions. IP: Logged |
Kibriana
Knowflake Posts: 301
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted November 27, 2015 03:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by missblyss:
Yep! 100% I was doing readings for a while too! I realized how the people were literally putting everything I said on such a pedestal, that even my own mistakes could potentially play out in their lives, simply because the power/focus/ belief they had in it. Too karmically risky, so I refuse to do readings in that same way anymore. I notice that a LOT of tarot readers (professional) are overweight, using drugs, or have some type of other negative/destructive outlet. I think it is SUCH a fine line, when you present yourself as coming from a *higher* place of knowing.. The level of trust you are given is so spot on.... It is too much power for me, I don't feel comfortable with it at all anymore.
Exactly! It's so easy to fall into a trap of acting like a God. And you might have a point when it comes to tarot readers' profiles. The ones I worked with were a strange bunch and most of them were no better than con artists whose only goal was to take as much money from the clients as they could. You're right, it's definitely a bad karmic career choice. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 12077
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted November 27, 2015 06:08 PM
I've never really doubted natal astrology because I can see how accurate it is every time I look at somebody's chart. It just works from what I have seen. However, I do not believe in synastry because I have seen it be inaccurate over and over again. IP: Logged |
Belage
Knowflake Posts: 2495
From: USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 27, 2015 06:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by missblyss:
To be honest, I find that when my spiritual practices start to wane I tend to dive more deeply into astrology, trying to find "logical" answers in the imperical side of my brain. When I am deep in my spirituality, I transcend all "patterns" that I may be pulled into, so astrology becomes less relevant.
interesting... IP: Logged |
Belage
Knowflake Posts: 2495
From: USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 27, 2015 06:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I've never really doubted natal astrology because I can see how accurate it is every time I look at somebody's chart. It just works from what I have seen. However, I do not believe in synastry because I have seen it be inaccurate over and over again.
Can you give me a few examples of when synastry has been innacurate.
IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 70434
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted November 27, 2015 06:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I've never really doubted natal astrology because I can see how accurate it is every time I look at somebody's chart. It just works from what I have seen. However, I do not believe in synastry because I have seen it be inaccurate over and over again.
I never, ever have in the thousands of charts I have looked at, by now lol ------------------
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DopGang
Knowflake Posts: 3194
From: MBTI - INTJ -- Enneagram - 5w6
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted November 27, 2015 06:37 PM
I can tell you that Mercury rx ABSOLUTELY impacts things. Just come to my work during mercury rx and I'll show you. It's really something (not in a good way). The last two mercury rx periods have had WEEKLY semi crashes on the interstate causing fires. Not a single one in between those mercury rx periods. I don't believe. I know.
The only thing I don't believe in (though I do still explore it) is asteroids. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 12077
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted November 27, 2015 08:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Belage:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[b]I've never really doubted natal astrology because I can see how accurate it is every time I look at somebody's chart. It just works from what I have seen. However, I do not believe in synastry because I have seen it be inaccurate over and over again.
Can you give me a few examples of when synastry has been innacurate. [/B][/QUOTE]
I used to run synastry with everyone I knew, particularly girls I was interested in, and it was just rarely accurate. For example, I would have amazing synastry with girls and they would reject me or I wouldn't be interested in them. I could look at my synastry with a girl and we could have sun/moon, mars/venus, venus/moon,moon/mars, venus/pluto,nodal contacts, and good house placements to back all of that up and the girls would feel nothing for me or I wouldn't feel anything for them. It just didn't work... Period... Synastry simply cannot predict if you'll be attracted, like someone, and get along with a person. It just doesn't work. To me, synastry is useful for conformation bias and nothing more. People who are already in relationships can look at their synastry and cherry pick certain aspects and say "oh this is why we get along so well" or "oh this is why we have a great sex life" when the reality is there are plenty of people who have those synastry aspects, and then some, and they do not get along or have sex. My experience has shown me that you can run someone's natal chart when you first meet them and you can have a good idea of what kind of personality they have. You can't do that with synastry...... You can't look at synastry with someone you just met and predict how your relationship will play out with any level of accuracy. It just doesn't work and that's why I don't put any stock in synastry. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 12077
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted November 27, 2015 08:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I never, ever have in the thousands of charts I have looked at, by now lol
Synastry is useful for confirmation bias and nothing more. People run their synastry with people they are already in relationships with and use it to justify why they are together. The reality is those people probably have better synastry with other people they would never date in a million years but they don't know that because they don't look at their synastry with people they aren't dating or aren't close to. I used to do synastry with everyone I met to see if it really worked and it just wasn't accurate. Synastry cannot predict if you'll like someone or if they'll like you. If it really worked it could do those things with reasonable accuracy, but it can't.IP: Logged |
Faith
Knowflake Posts: 21405
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted November 27, 2015 09:08 PM
In my experience synastry is accurate. But not everyone wants to be in a relationship. And practical issues may interfere. And sometimes it takes a while to get things off the ground. Who knows what ignites a relationship? Progressions? Transits? Free will? Needless to say it's rare for a meaningful relationship to start with a bang. Usually it's a process, and perhaps each person has to be astrologically equipped to endure that initial strange process. IP: Logged |
StillTippin
Knowflake Posts: 114
From: Houston, Tx
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted November 27, 2015 09:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by shyberry:
Hello all, I hope you are doing well and have enjoyed your Thanksgiving! (If you celebrate it)Astrology continues to rise in popularity and more celebrities are willing to share their birth time with no question. I've only come across 2 that I care about who have given their birth times out, but I'm sure there are more. Both Lana Del Rey and Jhene Aiko are astrology lovers. Two of my friends are also into natal astrology and talk about it a lot. A potential therapist I plan on going to next month also talks about it on his Facebook. I've always liked astrology and felt upset when people would write long articles on "why Mars rising doesn't mean anything." I'd quickly skim through the comments that say, "These astrology lovers are no better than religious nuts." and promptly roll my eyes and forget I ever read those things. Seeing Jhene and Lana share their birth chart information stroked an odd chord within me. Hearing my friends mope over their "bad" synastry with their crushes made me feel even more odd. "Aw, his sun is square my moon?! Oh well, I'll just fantasize." "My Mars is conjunct his moon?! I don't want to be an abuser..." "My daughter's moon is afflicted! Will I be a bad mother?!" --> Seeing things like this online really makes me wonder. When I read more articles about what makes good synastry or how to tell if you'll be rich from your natal chart, I feel slightly disgusted. My friend said, "Your moons are compatible so you'll get along." when I told her who my crush was. I thought to myself, "Damn she sounds stupid." My faith in astrology has been wavering for quite some time. It started with Mercury retrograde. I firmly believe Mercury going retrograde affects nothing and laugh when I get emails from astrological newsletters I subscribed to saying, "Mercury's retrograde! Here's how you can live through it!" I posted something about Transit Saturn in my 12th house when I first joined this website, but then I realized I've never "felt" a transit. If I see Neptune squaring my Mars, I don't see "impending doom". I don't see anything. Nothing good happens during beautiful Jupiter transits and nothing bad happens during Saturn transits. Life just IS. At least that is how it is for me. The point of this long post is that since more people are talking about astrology, it makes me feel that it is pointless and even a bit delusional to put so much weight on the planets. Maybe I am just around the wrong people who believe that astrology is the answer for everything. Astrology has helped me gain a small amount of confidence in myself and I studied it A LOT in the past, but now I feel angry when I hear people say that the planets affect us. Much of what is said for Moon in Pisces (my position) can also be applied to Venus in Pisces, Sun conjunct Neptune, Neptune in 1st house...so it lessens all of these planetary aspects and positions since they're all so similar. Moon square Mars = temper, but Mars conjunct Pluto also ='s temper? Has anyone had their faith waver only for it to come back? As much as I'm starting to loathe it, without Astrology, I feel like a big part of me will be gone.
Wow.......I feel like you've just kidnapped my brain. I'm losing alot of faith in it as well. I never believed the planets affect us I just looked at it as the planets symbolizing our energy. But ppl catergorize, judge, and make ******** general statements like you're this because of this. I'm a Libra with a Libra mars, ascendant, south node, and my mars squares Neptune. But my past would lead you to think different. Yet soon as you hop on a forum when they see Libra they see coward. Its almost like ppl judge you on sign rather than personality. Astrology is too abstract, your point towards the end was perfect. Even after Pluto, they still found asteroids To describe some of the same issues you see with Pluto. I got into astrology b/c it was fun and I wanted to share that experience with others. But now all I see is ppl overlooking answers for the lies that line up with their current desires. IP: Logged |
Kannon McAfee
Knowflake Posts: 1992
From: Portland, OR - USA
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted November 27, 2015 09:33 PM
Good for you shyberry.Astrology is not a matter of 'faith.' A positive attitude and the development of useful, practical intuition will take you a lot farther with more groundedness than constant horoscope watching. If people approach astrology as a 'need to know' thing they cannot do without, then they have already slipped from the middle path of free will into some sort of dependency. Most of what you are describing is attributable to people, not the sincere and open study of astrology itself. Don't let others' attitudes or behaviors steer you from something you are drawn to. If it is yours, it is yours for your own reasons. Many people seem to use astrology as a replacement for religion. A large fraction of followers/students of astrology and its practitioners are of that bent. They place their need for 'belief' into it, and follow it as fervently as a religious zealot would. Astrology is just nature. It is okay to come to a place where you question its role for you or whether it is worth your time. Maybe you can conduct your own controlled study. Ignore it for an extended period of time. If you have no life challenges that cannot be met without it, then you don't need it. Even Edgar Cayce said that astrology is effective for 80% of people, not everyone. Yet, you normally see the all-or-nothing, if it affects me it affects everyone thinking. Not me. ------------------
Astrology & Natural Medicine blog IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 12077
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted November 27, 2015 09:34 PM
I'm not just talking about relationships, even though those are usually the focus of synastry. IMO, synastry should indicate how people make you feel. I could have really good synastry with a girl and she might not be attracted to me and therefore not interested in me in a romantic way but she should still have strong feelings for me, albeit in a non-romantic way if synastry was accurate at all. And from what I have seen it just doesn't work out that way. I have had really great synastry with people and There weren't any strong feelings there. Think about it this way..... When you meet some people you feel instant fireworks and or hit it off and get along great or you meet those people that you just can't stand as soon as they open their mouth. But most of the time your feelings are neutral when you people. In my opinion, if synastry worked you would have those moments where you instantly hit it off when you have strong synastry with them and it just doesn't work that way. IP: Logged | |
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