posted November 14, 2016 04:56 PM            

If neither, what aspects can cause this too?

I have these symptoms, except suicidal thoughts, never had such thoughts ever, thank God.

But everything else I have, lol.

posted November 15, 2016 09:58 AM            

There is one man I know who suffers from Othello syndrome. It's pretty ugly and his marital life is close to falling apart (for which he has no one but himself to blame). I can never seem to get his TOB but I'm betting my life and my entire astrology knowledge that Pluto is involved.

As for Pluto in the 7th - yes, it does involve struggles with trust and jealousy in partnerships , however by itself I wouldn't mark it as kiss of death. People can overcome these issues with time, experience and maturity and even help from professionals if that's needed. Othello syndrome is a psychological "disorder" of sorts and those take a lot more to develop than just astrology - harmful environment, abusive upbringing, low consciousness, weak self-awareness etc.

posted November 15, 2016 02:11 PM            

There is to me a link between Chiron- Saturn- Pluto and Moon. As each of these can mark pain and misery from which triumph over/conscious evolving from, is necessary.

When Pluto is in the 7th, there is often deep-routed fears with regards to marriage /commitment, partnership and having an open relationship with others- is concerned.

The irony is that people with Pluto in 7th are often "hungry" for love. Their need to fill the cup that which has been starved, is usually more a ferocious yearning than most people know/realize.

But the self-sabotage comes from distrusting whatever love comes their way. Whether its friendships,partnerships or romance.

Perhaps there was betrayal, abandonment or traumatic disappointments early in life that sparked the need or made sure the cup was never full?

Many build a high wall which few can ever penetrate fully. Whilst others lower the wall to others -only to subject them to trials and tests in order for their "loyalty" to be weighed.

The sad part is that when the individual gets tired and eventually walks away from Pluto in 7th- once enough with the struggles and toils etc. The Pluto 7th will turn around and say "See. I knew that you would eventually walk away and leave me". And its always a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The accusation and suspicion is only a ploy to get someone to "leave" them . A way to get them to confirm the worst fears that they have had about partnerships and relationships. A fear that was probably whispered to them years earlier i.e "Anyone who gets close enough to you can hurt you. Or heal you"

Now many forget the latter part; being extra vigilant and sensitive to anything the partner does and on the constant "lookout" for any signs of looming betrayal and deception.

I have Pluto in 7th in Scorpio,Venus in Scorpio too.And I also have trust issues which I have little knowledge as to where they sprung from.

Where they came from is however irrelevant. The fact is that they are real.And learning to "let go" and let people in ,is something that I battle to do.

There is no need for you to try and "work out" these issues.As the rabbit hole is unending and it may consume your whole life to sort through all the rubble.

Pluto in 7th has learned to be vigilant of the unexpected and possible awry outcome,so much so that they often have the thinking "no one will pull a wool over my eyes".

The result often is that in that vigilance, even those that want to rendezvous with Pluto in 7th from an altogether "open" and sincere point of view, are missed...

So this defeats the whole purpose because in focusing so much on the danger of what can go wrong,we miss the bliss of what we really really want.

I would say don't try to change yourself. Only focus your attention on people who don't try to change you ,get you to do what they want you to do or dominate you in any way.

I find that when I am not "pressured" to be something other than what I am, I trust more easily and let go.

posted November 15, 2016 02:43 PM              

I have Pluto ruling my 7th located in my 6th along with my Scorpio stellium.

posted November 15, 2016 02:49 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Pluto to me often signifies very deep-routed fears.And the house that it is in often shows the area of life where we feel our deepest vulnerabilities exposed.

There is to me a link between Chiron- Saturn- Pluto and Moon. As each of these can mark pain and misery from which triumph over/conscious evolving from, is necessary.

When Pluto is in the 7th, there is often deep-routed fears with regards to marriage /commitment, partnership and having an open relationship with others- is concerned.

The irony is that people with Pluto in 7th are often "hungry" for love. Their need to fill the cup that which has been starved, is usually more a ferocious yearning than most people know/realize.

But the self-sabotage comes from distrusting whatever love comes their way. Whether its friendships,partnerships or romance.

Perhaps there was betrayal, abandonment or traumatic disappointments early in life that sparked the need or made sure the cup was never full?

Many build a high wall which few can ever penetrate fully. Whilst others lower the wall to others -only to subject them to trials and tests in order for their "loyalty" to be weighed.

The sad part is that when the individual gets tired and eventually walks away from Pluto in 7th- once enough with the struggles and toils etc. The Pluto 7th will turn around and say "See. I knew that you would eventually walk away and leave me". And its always a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The accusation and suspicion is only a ploy to get someone to "leave" them . A way to get them to confirm the worst fears that they have had about partnerships and relationships. A fear that was probably whispered to them years earlier i.e "Anyone who gets close enough to you can hurt you. Or heal you"

Now many forget the latter part; being extra vigilant and sensitive to anything the partner does and on the constant "lookout" for any signs of looming betrayal and deception.

I have Pluto in 7th in Scorpio,Venus in Scorpio too.And I also have trust issues which I have little knowledge as to where they sprung from.

Where they came from is however irrelevant. The fact is that they are real.And learning to "let go" and let people in ,is something that I battle to do.

There is no need for you to try and "work out" these issues.As the rabbit hole is unending and it may consume your whole life to sort through all the rubble.

Pluto in 7th has learned to be vigilant of the unexpected and possible awry outcome,so much so that they often have the thinking "no one will pull a wool over my eyes".

The result often is that in that vigilance, even those that want to rendezvous with Pluto in 7th from an altogether "open" and sincere point of view, are missed...

So this defeats the whole purpose because in focusing so much on the danger of what can go wrong,we miss the bliss of what we really really want.

I would say don't try to change yourself. Only focus your attention on people who don't try to change you ,get you to do what they want you to do or dominate you in any way.

I find that when I am not "pressured" to be something other than what I am, I trust more easily and let go.

There was a Venus in Scorpio and Venus in Pisces with whom I experienced that with.

---

I couldn't have said it better. Every word.

I have Pluto ruling the 7th and Venus in Scorpio including Jupiter.

no one has came close to the feeling of healing and surrender except A Cancer man with Venus in Taurus and I blame our Sun-Venus double whammy in Synastry for that (1 degree orb max). Sometimes it takes a certain relationship to loosen us up.

I always felt too out of place or solid or masculine to lower my defenses or at least begin to but with this Cancer man I'm calm enough to let go a little. It's terrifying but so relieving.

We also have a Moon-Mars-Chiron conjunction.

posted November 15, 2016 03:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Yanmorg:

The lack of trust really messes with my reality and intuition. Fear controls my thoughts so much I can't separate intuition form paranoia. It's very disturbing and discouraging but I am learning how to silence my mind and train my brain. Although Pluto in the 7th is a challenge, the depth of emotion and intensity you feel within yourself and in close relationships are well worth the trouble. I wouldn't have it any other way. I just need to rise from the ashes now.

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This! I felt a slight chill reading this. This is exactly what I'm doing.

posted November 15, 2016 04:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meyray:
-

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quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
-

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Okay, amma "try" your recommendation, see how it works out for me.

I'm really trying not to me negative and my damn mind keep telling me things like "she's cheating" or I'll think about past convos between me and the person and I'll find/make up negative reasons why the person would say/do certain things then my imagination runs wild afterwards.

posted November 16, 2016 06:44 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by deptic:
This! I felt a slight chill reading this. This is exactly what I'm doing.

Idk how to move forward. If someone is cheating on me and my paranoia/intuition kick in, how will i know which one is true?

---

Literally stop thinking about it.
Try to relax and start thinking about all the positive.
It will take a few tries to get going but keep at it.

This is a mental exercise I've been trying and it's working fairly well.

The key to all of this is CONTROL. Once you realize you can't control anything related to a particular situation except yourself, you will start to relax.

We have this intense need to control everything and everyone around us out of FEAR. We need that control to feel secure. That's all it is. Because regardless if your partner is cheating or not (I hope he isn't), you can't do anything about it anyway so why not wait until the answers reveal themselves to you? You save a lot of energy and you still get the answers you need. You just have to wait awhile

Try not to think so much. If you catch yourself doing it, start moving and doing something hand on that will distract your mind for a few quick seconds so you can refocus your brain.

posted November 16, 2016 10:31 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yanmorg:
Literally stop thinking about it.
Try to relax and start thinking about all the positive.
It will take a few tries to get going but keep at it.

This is a mental exercise I've been trying and it's working fairly well.

The key to all of this is CONTROL. Once you realize you can't control anything related to a particular situation except yourself, you will start to relax.

We have this intense need to control everything and everyone around us out of FEAR. We need that control to feel secure. That's all it is. Because regardless if your partner is cheating or not (I hope he isn't), you can't do anything about it anyway so why not wait until the answers reveal themselves to you? You save a lot of energy and you still get the answers you need. You just have to wait awhile

Try not to think so much. If you catch yourself doing it, start moving and doing something hand on that will distract your mind for a few quick seconds so you can refocus your brain.

Healing and recovering from emotional and psychological trauma is THAT in depth and intense. We have to work it. The results feel amazing even if it's one redirected thought a day! You have to start somewhere.

---

Okay

I will try this, starting now. I do have a friend who I told me the same thing (more or less), to be positive because my negative thoughts will consume me and it'll lead to me being unproductive.

PS: partner is a she, not he. lool.

posted November 16, 2016 11:15 AM            

My ex chart.

posted November 16, 2016 01:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by florence:
It's actually impossible since it's more like reality is made to fit an infidelity.

---

posted November 16, 2016 01:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by deptic:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by florence:
[b]It's actually impossible since it's more like reality is made to fit an infidelity.

---

I would try anticipate and avoid any possible scenarios where he'd interpret signs of an affair. For example, I stopped talking to men, having eye contact with anyone not female. If I went shopping I wouldn't linger because I'd be mindful of the time away. Many other things.. Basically always conscious of his thoughts. Conscious too that in trying to prevent his suspicions, even that aroused suspicion - that it seemed guilty in itself.

The part you asked me to elaborate on .. I mean that it's impossible for the partner because the one with the othello syndrome can make any random sign evidence of an affair. An affair is the primary reality.

As someone with Mercury opp Pluto and so prone to be suspicious and vigilant of behaviour/language, I have to say that those with the othello syndrome take this far beyond what is right. It's overstepping the boundaries of individual autonomy, massively.

I notice you say you aren't suicidal but are everything else. Does that mean you have homicidal feelings?

posted November 16, 2016 03:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by florence:
I would try anticipate and avoid any possible scenarios where he'd interpret signs of an affair. For example, I stopped talking to men, having eye contact with anyone not female. If I went shopping I wouldn't linger because I'd be mindful of the time away. Many other things.. Basically always conscious of his thoughts. Conscious too that in trying to prevent his suspicions, even that aroused suspicion - that it seemed guilty in itself.

The part you asked me to elaborate on .. I mean that it's impossible for the partner because the one with the othello syndrome can make any random sign evidence of an affair. An affair is the primary reality.

As someone with Mercury opp Pluto and so prone to be suspicious and vigilant of behavior/language, I have to say that those with the othello syndrome take this far beyond what is right. It's overstepping the boundaries of individual autonomy, massively.

I notice you say you aren't suicidal but are everything else. Does that mean you have homicidal feelings?

---

Ooooooh okay. Now I understand! You're strong - Wow I couldn't see myself watching my every step because someone has their head over my shoulder so I have to walk on egg shells. And I don't think I'd do that to someone, it's not something I wanna do to someone, that's why I wanna just live my life and mature and learn to trust not try to control people/situations like above poster said. I know what's it's like to let go of the uncontrollable, it feels good. A "fu** it" attitude. I need to bring that back lol. But when I start to *really* like someone, the othello syn flares up sometimes, like a rash.

I can relate, embarrassingly. Lol, sometimes I wonder if I'm going crazy. I need to find me a therapist, though. Maybe that will help, also find my purpose in life and/or a hobby I think will help too.

posted November 16, 2016 05:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by CapriciousCapricorn:
Florence, may I ask about your Mercury-Pluto? The thing is I know someone (a man) with this aspect, Pluto in 7H, Mercury in 1H, Pluto being 7H co-ruler. Also, his Moon is in Scorpio.. I guess such combination really shows its true self in close relationships. He had some interest in me. He'd take my phone and go through all my photos trying to find out whether I'm single or not. Snooping basically. I always wondered whether this was something to do with his Mercury-Pluto..

---

Merc-Pluto like ruminating, investigating, researching, finding things out. It's as much a process as an end so the investment in a solution, answer, truth can vary. That he looked through your phone probably was Mercury-Pluto because it's that searching and looking and more than that, seeing what puzzles might emerge, to alight a curiosity. I'd think pure snooping is that aspect but doing so jealously would be Scorpio moon, where there's more investment in a particular discovery. It's like merc-Pluto is an engine that wants fuel and Scorpio moon/rising or other Pluto aspects want to get somewhere specific.

I attach shame to that behaviour though and won't do so without encouragement. I think a lot of plutonic types probably do and try to hide it - if he did it with your knowledge that was probably some kind of move or question in itself. But it is a good way for us to relate to others, through that act of looking because that's how our minds work.

posted November 16, 2016 05:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by deptic:

Ooooooh okay. Now I understand! You're strong - Wow I couldn't see myself watching my every step because someone has their head over my shoulder so I have to walk on egg shells. And I don't think I'd do that to someone, it's not something I wanna do to someone, that's why I wanna just live my life and mature and learn to trust not try to control people/situations like above poster said. I know what's it's like to let go of the uncontrollable, it feels good. A "fu** it" attitude. I need to bring that back lol. But when I start to *really* like someone, the othello syn flares up sometimes, like a rash.

I can relate, embarrassingly. Lol, sometimes I wonder if I'm going crazy. I need to find me a therapist, though. Maybe that will help, also find my purpose in life and/or a hobby I think will help too.

And no, I missed that one. I don't have any thoughts of harming myself and/or others whatsoever. Never did in my entire life. I've had thoughts of giving up on certain things, but that's about it.

---

I really do understand the split you must be feeling, too between your fears and whether it's intuition. but if it is like the experience I had, there'll be suspicions and fears no matter what you look for, no matter how you look at it because life just isn't so simple. I don't have any answers unfortunately but I did want to convey the other side. For the record, my ex did have the most amazing intuition except for in this regard so it is possible to have both.

He smoked pot which I think made it worse. Also, I'm convinced that his father had passed on an extreme vigilance from having lived under and escaped nazi Germany. I think this because of conversations I had with his father who understandably was very conscious of his personal safety (not losing sight of his passport) and also was very suspicious too of infidelity. These would fit in with Neptune I think?

posted November 16, 2016 05:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by florence:
I really do understand the split you must be feeling, too between your fears and whether it's intuition. but if it is like the experience I had, there'll be suspicions and fears no matter what you look for, no matter how you look at it because life just isn't so simple. I don't have any answers unfortunately but I did want to convey the other side. For the record, my ex did have the most amazing intuition except for in this regard so it is possible to have both.

He smoked pot which I think made it worse. Also, I'm convinced that his father had passed on an extreme vigilance from having lived under and escaped nazi Germany. I think this because of conversations I had with his father who understandably was very conscious of his personal safety (not losing sight of his passport) and also was very suspicious too of infidelity. These would fit in with Neptune I think?

Is it possible you've been exposed to some heightened need for self-preservation?

---

Interesting .. Hmmm...

No I haven't been but when I was younger, I used to get teased alot by kids my age, older and younger.

I've endured teasing ever since the first time I went to school all the way up to 15 years old, then I changed and started beating people up (jk jk).

Idk if that's the reason. When I was 12, someone asked my friends why were they friends with me (she didn't like me), felt bad, ruined my day and continued to flatten my confidence. In high school a chick once said that any female that likes me/be with me has no ambition, another felt bad moment, another scenario where me and a group of people were to work on a school project but they didn't want me in the group because I was "dead wight". Lots more, but My confidence/self worth was constantly flattened because of people around me since I was 4 years old. When I do pick up some confidence again, there is someone to knock me down. The struggles.... That was the past though. After the age of 16, things turned around for me lol.

posted November 16, 2016 06:30 PM            

But, just speculating.

posted November 16, 2016 06:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by florence:
Thank you. was curious whether it could be passed on because even though confidence is a factor - in self and others - there's something else to this syndrome .. Like there's a separate narrative playing and I'd think that would come from some crisis. I suppose for a child, or an adult too, those things are traumatic at the time but especially at a formative age

But, just speculating.

Hope I haven't made you feel worse because you sound like a nice person and are wanting to overcome it. I hope that you can stay with that 'f it' mindset plan and be able to enjoy your r/ship

---

Lol, not at all. I kinda got carried away with with my typing, I just couldn't stop.

posted November 16, 2016 07:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by deptic:
Othello syndrome: The delusion of infidelity of a spouse or partner. The Othello syndrome affects males and, less often, females. It is characterized by recurrent accusations of infidelity, searches for evidence, repeated interrogation of the partner, tests of their partner's fidelity, and sometime stalking. The syndrome may appear by itself or in the course of paranoid schizophrenia, alcoholism, or cocaine addiction. As in Othello, the play by Shakespeare, the syndrome can be highly dangerous and result in disruption of a marriage, homicide and suicide.

---

I have Neptune and Uranus conjunct in Capricorn in the 7th house and square my 10th house Aries Venus and I am paranoid about guys cheating on me even though it's never happened. I'd say having Uranus and Neptune in the 7th square Venus shows someone paranoid like me.

My 5th house is Scorpio and it's modern ruler Pluto sits in that house, so I guess I can see how the Othello syndrome might play out in the 5th or 7th house, maybe even the 8th since it's about intimacy with another person.

I'm a jealous person by nature and I'm prone to being paranoid about partners cheating. I can see it in my placements

posted November 16, 2016 11:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SunAscendant:
I have Neptune and Uranus conjunct in Capricorn in the 7th house and square my 10th house Aries Venus and I am paranoid about guys cheating on me even though it's never happened. I'd say having Uranus and Neptune in the 7th square Venus shows someone paranoid like me.

My 5th house is Scorpio and it's modern ruler Pluto sits in that house, so I guess I can see how the Othello syndrome might play out in the 5th or 7th house, maybe even the 8th since it's about intimacy with another person.

I'm a jealous person by nature and I'm prone to being paranoid about partners cheating. I can see it in my placements

Uranus conjunct Neptune in the 7th house both square Venus in the 10th (the tightest aspects in my chart too)
Pluto in the 5th house of Scorpio conjunct my Vertex
Saturn in the 8th house strong in Aquarius

---

posted November 17, 2016 06:01 AM            

An example, if I was to try to explain it to someone . (This is a made up e.g. But to illustrate the kind of thinking). My ex might see something like a book fallen out from a bookcase and deduce from that I was having an affair. Nothing about that could be construed as a sign of infidelity but it would remind him of a time he once noticed a book fallen from a bookcase (of the person he'd think I was having an affair with) and around that time said person would have made a comment that he would have sex with someone in a relationship. So the later event of the book would be a sign left to him that this person was taunting him deliberately, but in a coded manner, that he was having an affair with me.

As I said that's a made up example but that's the kind of convoluted thinking that would occur. Two unrelated but similar events otherwise hinged together on the premise I was having an affair and usually with some symbolism. That's what I mean about it being like a separate narrative that I think relates to a crisis. In that instance the strength he'd weigh in the accusation would actually be more to do with the revelation that his friend, that men in general, would betray their friends for sex which would trigger some other, more buried fears and be filed as some threat. I'm sure we all leave these tags of things to watch out for and pick up possible signs but I think with this syndrome very tertiary markers become primary and reality itself is seen as subsidiary to that.

In the end I left him because I thought he might kill me; it wasn't fear of his physical capacity to do harm - it was fear of what he could imagine, that there wasn't a reality I could access to anticipate any danger.

There are times since where if someone will behave strangely with me now I'll offer my passwords, rather inappropriately, to assuage any possible fears that they might have.

posted November 17, 2016 09:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by florence:
I was still thinking of all this last night & trying to understand it, the nature of the othello syndrome and what, if any, difference there is to regular jealousy.

An example, if I was to try to explain it to someone . (This is a made up e.g. But to illustrate the kind of thinking). My ex might see something like a book fallen out from a bookcase and deduce from that I was having an affair. Nothing about that could be construed as a sign of infidelity but it would remind him of a time he once noticed a book fallen from a bookcase (of the person he'd think I was having an affair with) and around that time said person would have made a comment that he would have sex with someone in a relationship. So the later event of the book would be a sign left to him that this person was taunting him deliberately, but in a coded manner, that he was having an affair with me.

As I said that's a made up example but that's the kind of convoluted thinking that would occur. Two unrelated but similar events otherwise hinged together on the premise I was having an affair and usually with some symbolism. That's what I mean about it being like a separate narrative that I think relates to a crisis. In that instance the strength he'd weigh in the accusation would actually be more to do with the revelation that his friend, that men in general, would betray their friends for sex which would trigger some other, more buried fears and be filed as some threat. I'm sure we all leave these tags of things to watch out for and pick up possible signs but I think with this syndrome very tertiary markers become primary and reality itself is seen as subsidiary to that.

In the end I left him because I thought he might kill me; it wasn't fear of his physical capacity to do harm - it was fear of what he could imagine, that there wasn't a reality I could access to anticipate any danger.

There are times since where if someone will behave strangely with me now I'll offer my passwords, rather inappropriately, to assuage any possible fears that they might have.

Hope you don't mind me adding this on. I believe you wouldn't cause any harm and likely don't have problems to this degree. Just wanted to elaborate on the nature of it because it's hard for people to distinguish from other kinds of jealousy. And also, I've not properly talked about it before so it's very helpful for me to get out of my system.

---

I'm not like this, can't relate. Sounds like he's overboard with it, albeit, unintentionally.