posted October 05, 2017 04:32 PM            

Clue: to start with I used the time as obtained by her dad directly by phone from the hospital where she was born. If you've taken notice of the pattern I've pointed out with rising signs previously it shouldn't take but a couple guesses to get it.

I'll be writing up a permanent entry at my blog site about it at some point since it illustrates planetary metrics (internal chart rectifying metrics).

posted October 05, 2017 04:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SleepyDiary:
Aquarius. She has always in my view been weird, rebellious and inventive with her appearance and musical style. She has also said in an interview once that she is an Aquarius rising. And Adam lambert said in an interview once that he got to hang out with Madonna and was very surprised by how weird she truly is, she was into some weird shitt he said. Don`t remember what though.

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I don't think she was telling the truth. I think she knows about astrology and was trying to portray herself as Aquarius rising.

Maybe she was trying to come off as edgy, as a performer.

posted October 05, 2017 06:30 PM            

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/220843.html

As stated I use the SynastryMethod™ for deriving an Asc.

Concept

1. The conjunction aspect is the only aspect where two planets are physically next to each other. Thus if you are to get physically close to another person you will need a conjunction aspect.

2. The Sun & Moon are the two planets in astrology which are most often in conjunction (once a month). Thus, to bring about a relationship with another person you will need a Sun-Moon aspect. Specifically, a conjunction between Sun & Moon.

3. The Asc, representing the individual, is the only planet or point strong enough to substitute for the Sun.

4. When two strangers unite they are in essence recreating the union between divine masculine and the divine feminine. The union is called the NEW MOON. It is this alignment, conjunction between Sun & Moon, that magnetize people to each other.

5. pMoon conjunct nSun or nAsc is the aspect which ignites attraction between two people.

posted October 05, 2017 07:16 PM            

To support my argument that Madonna is a Gemini Ascendant, I will use the marriages of Michael Jackson. Using the same methodology, I will review Madonna's two marriages, then finish by examining her relationship with Carlos Leon, her first born's father.

Michael Jackson

For years Michael Jackson's tob was a mystery. Upon his death his mom gave a time which revealed his Asc to be Pisces. Michael Jackson was a Virgo-Pisces, Pisces Asc. Thanks to the "synastry method" this tob can be verified independently.

Michael's first marriage was to Lisa-Marie Presley. Lisa Marie is an Aquarius-Pisces, Leo Asc. At time of their marriage Michael's pMoon was in Gemini - not making a connection to either Lisa's nSun or nAsc. OTOH, Lisa's pMoon was in Pisces. Here is was in conjunction to Michael's nAsc - thus, pMoon conjunct nAsc.

Michael's second marriage was to Debbie Rowe. Debbie Rowe is a Sagittarius-Libra, Asc Unknown. At time of this marriage Michael's pMoon was in Cancer. Otoh, Debbie's pMoon was in Pisces, here is was in conjunction to Michael's nAsc. Thus, pMoon conjunct nAsc.

Madonna

Madonna was born on August 16th. For those of us with basic numerology knowledge, 16 is the number of Neptune. Neptune is the god of illusion and mystery. Much the same way a Pisces Asc will be mysterious, same way a person born on the 16th will be mysterious and unfathomable.

Madonna is Leo-Virgo, Asc [Gemini]. Her first marriage was to Sean Penn. Sean is a Leo-Cancer, Sagittarius. At time of their marriage Madonna's pMoon was in Virgo. In Virgo is made a conjunction to neither Sean's nSun in Leo, nor his nAsc in Sagittarius. OTOH, Sean's pMoon at time of their marriage was in Gemini...

Madonna's second marriage was to Guy Ritchie. Guy is a Virgo-Taurus, Asc Unknown. At time of their marriage Madonna's pMoon was in Aries and not in aspect to Guy's nSun. OTOH, Guy Ritchie's pMoon at time of his marriage to Madonna was in Gemini, same as Sean Penn. So, pMoon conjunct nAsc.

This demonstrates an attraction to men with pMoon in Gemini. With her nAsc officially unknown, by process of elimination, this reveals her natal Ascendant as Gemini.

posted October 05, 2017 09:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Nine:
[b]Pop Royalty

To support my argument that Madonna is a Gemini Ascendant, I will use the marriages of Michael Jackson. Using the same methodology, I will review Madonna's two marriages, then finish by examining her relationship with Carlos Leon, her first born's father.

Michael Jackson

For years Michael Jackson's tob was a mystery. Upon his death his mom gave a time which revealed his Asc to be Pisces. Michael Jackson was a Virgo-Pisces, Pisces Asc. Thanks to the "synastry method" this tob can be verified independently.

Michael's first marriage was to Lisa-Marie Presley. Lisa Marie is an Aquarius-Pisces, Leo Asc. At time of their marriage Michael's pMoon was in Gemini - not making a connection to either Lisa's nSun or nAsc. OTOH, Lisa's pMoon was in Pisces. Here is was in conjunction to Michael's nAsc - thus, pMoon conjunct nAsc.

Michael's second marriage was to Debbie Rowe. Debbie Rowe is a Sagittarius-Libra, Asc Unknown. At time of this marriage Michael's pMoon was in Cancer. Otoh, Debbie's pMoon was in Pisces, here is was in conjunction to Michael's nAsc. Thus, pMoon conjunct nAsc.

Madonna

Madonna was born on August 16th. For those of us with basic numerology knowledge, 16 is the number of Neptune. Neptune is the god of illusion and mystery. Much the same way a Pisces Asc will be mysterious, same way a person born on the 16th will be mysterious and unfathomable.

Madonna is Leo-Virgo, Asc [Gemini]. Her first marriage was to Sean Penn. Sean is a Leo-Cancer, Sagittarius. At time of their marriage Madonna's pMoon was in Virgo. In Virgo is made a conjunction to neither Sean's nSun in Leo, nor his nAsc in Sagittarius. OTOH, Sean's pMoon at time of their marriage was in Gemini...

Madonna's second marriage was to Guy Ritchie. Guy is a Virgo-Taurus, Asc Unknown. At time of their marriage Madonna's pMoon was in Aries and not in aspect to Guy's nSun. OTOH, Guy Ritchie's pMoon at time of his marriage to Madonna was in Gemini, same as Sean Penn. So, pMoon conjunct nAsc.

This demonstrates an attraction to men with pMoon in Gemini. With her nAsc officially unknown, by process of elimination, this reveals her natal Ascendant as Gemini.

[/B]

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There were sites that listed Michael as Libra rising.

posted October 06, 2017 12:32 AM            

quote:

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There were sites that listed Michael as Libra rising.

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Yep. I also remember someone saying a trusted Astrologer had him pegged as Aquarius rising.

quote:

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I can definitely see Madonna as Gemini rising. It would explain why she has a new look every 2 to 3 years.

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Definitely.

The thing I love about the SynastryMethod™ is you don't have to blindly accept a TOB. This method allows you to crosscheck. In using this method I've found that a lot of people get AM & PM mixed when giving out their birth times.

Eg. He gives you a time that corresponds with Capricorn Asc, but you noticed the last few people he's moved in with all had pMoon in Cancer. He's Cancer rising.

posted October 06, 2017 12:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Nine:
Definitely.

The thing I love about the SynastryMethod™ is you don't have to blindly accept a TOB. This method allows you to crosscheck. In using this method I've found that a lot of people get AM & PM mixed when giving out their birth times.

Eg. He gives you a time that corresponds with Capricorn Asc, but you noticed the last few people he's moved in with all had pMoon in Cancer. He's Cancer rising.

It's amazing how mathematical astrology is. I love to see reactions when you tell people what time they were born. Trippy! They think you're reading it off their faces. Truth is your information comes from the people they attract into their lives. Love it.

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posted October 06, 2017 01:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
I have just verified it finally for myself in the last few days and it is none of the above (listed by Sulkyarcher). Any guesses?

Clue: to start with I used the time as obtained by her dad directly by phone from the hospital where she was born. If you've taken notice of the pattern I've pointed out with rising signs previously it shouldn't take but a couple guesses to get it.

I'll be writing up a permanent entry at my blog site about it at some point since it illustrates planetary metrics (internal chart rectifying metrics).

---

posted October 06, 2017 07:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MarsSaturnDelight:
Pisces!!!

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Nope.

And anyone that believes Madonna is a double Virgo (Moon AND Asc) just is not paying attention either to her and her behavior or to astrological principles.

Nine actually gave an indirect clue when she mentioned Neptune.

But Nine -- your approach, while it mentions some principles that are poetic and can sometimes be observed, quickly becomes too narrow with too many over-specific rules for practical application. It ignores that fact that it is the 7th house/DC that is indicated in relationships, marriages, not the 1st/Asc. In other words, one's progressed Moon can just as easily be in the 7th as in the 1st, and just as likely conjunct/parallel the DC as the Asc.

It ignores that any of a number of planets in transit or progression can make various aspects to the correct natal Asc or DC. Such as my wife's prog Venus being exactly parallel her natal DC when we were married.

One way to pinpoint a possible Asc when using marriage/relationship events is when you think you're getting close, to look for progressed or transiting planets that could be making more obtuse angles (longer arc aspects) to the DC (or possibly plaents in the 7th). Marriage is a 7th house event. There is nothing about it or about first meetings (or engagements) that guarantees planets will point directly by sign or degree to the correct radix Asc.

And most of all, person A's Asc is best revealed by their own progressions, not by person B's, no matter how close the relationship. A second party's chart progressions is not in any way a reliable tool for rectifying a birth chart.

Using your method, both mine and my wife's birth certificates should be presumed wrong and our rising signs both changed to entirely different rising signs.

To become clear on someone's rising sign, you have to bring the person into clear view, which is not always as clear with celebrities as we'd like to think just because we're familiar with their names and images. Most often it requires delving deep into their personal biographies to be sure we really understand them as well as we think we do.

To become clear on the persons actual Asc degree requires use of at least two predictive/forecast tools (like transits and secondary progressions) in order to not fall into confirmation bias. It requires attention to both longitude and declination positions in transits and progressions and
getting precise verification of the degree area from cross-reference of two different tools.

posted October 06, 2017 08:17 PM            

In my research, as presented in this thread and else where, I've found it is pMoon conjunct nSun/nAsc which causes people to be attracted to each other beyond a passing interest.

Sorry, Kannon. Perhaps astrology isn't as complicated and inaccessible as you think it is.

quote:

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It ignores that any of a number of planets in transit or progression can make various aspects to the correct natal Asc or DC.

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No. Too vague, and too broad. That is not astrology, this is making stuff up to fit the circumstance.

posted October 06, 2017 10:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Nope.

And anyone that believes Madonna is a double Virgo (Moon AND Asc) just is not paying attention either to her and her behavior or to astrological principles.

Nine actually gave an indirect clue when she mentioned Neptune.

But Nine -- your approach, while it mentions some principles that are poetic and can sometimes be observed, quickly becomes too narrow with too many over-specific rules for practical application. It ignores that fact that it is the 7th house/DC that is indicated in relationships, marriages, not the 1st/Asc. In other words, one's progressed Moon can just as easily be in the 7th as in the 1st, and just as likely conjunct/parallel the DC as the Asc.

It ignores that any of a number of planets in transit or progression can make various aspects to the correct natal Asc or DC. Such as my wife's prog Venus being [b]exactly parallel her natal DC when we were married.

One way to pinpoint a possible Asc when using marriage/relationship events is when you think you're getting close, to look for progressed or transiting planets that could be making more obtuse angles (longer arc aspects) to the DC (or possibly plaents in the 7th). Marriage is a 7th house event. There is nothing about it or about first meetings (or engagements) that guarantees planets will point directly by sign or degree to the correct radix Asc.

And most of all, person A's Asc is best revealed by their own progressions, not by person B's, no matter how close the relationship. A second party's chart progressions is not in any way a reliable tool for rectifying a birth chart.

Using your method, both mine and my wife's birth certificates should be presumed wrong and our rising signs both changed to entirely different rising signs.

To become clear on someone's rising sign, you have to bring the person into clear view, which is not always as clear with celebrities as we'd like to think just because we're familiar with their names and images. Most often it requires delving deep into their personal biographies to be sure we really understand them as well as we think we do.

To become clear on the persons actual Asc degree requires use of at least two predictive/forecast tools (like transits and secondary progressions) in order to not fall into confirmation bias. It requires attention to both longitude and declination positions in transits and progressions and
getting precise verification of the degree area from cross-reference of two different tools.

[/B]

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Some of her behavior is very Virgo-like. Her diet and workouts are very strict. She's a perfectionist and very particular and detailed.

Her career is planned out in detail. Yes, she does shock us, but it's also partly all planned and calculating.

She's very controlled in her actions. She also admitted she has a Virgo Moon in one Youtube interview video. The video is from 1995, I remember.

posted October 07, 2017 04:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sulkyarcher:
Some of her behavior is very Virgo-like. Her diet and workouts are very strict. She's a perfectionist and very particular and detailed.

Her career is planned out in detail. Yes, she does shock us, but it's also partly all planned and calculating.

She's very controlled in her actions. She also admitted she has a Virgo Moon in one Youtube interview video. The video is from 1995, I remember.

---

posted October 07, 2017 05:34 AM            

Her Mars parallels her Sun. And she does come across very masculine(not by appearance but by drive).

posted October 07, 2017 06:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SleepyDiary:

Lol, she also said in that interview that she is an Aquarius rising though but that part must be fake because you don`t agree with it, right? 😂

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And I have my reasons not to believe her. Why do most charts have her as Virgo rising? Most people agree that her Sun is in Leo and Moon is in Virgo. But why does her ascendant always change? She's also been dishonest about some things too. Like coming to New York with only $35. I doubt that's true.

She's a great artist, I'll give her that. But why do I have to brown-nose somebody just because they're a celebrity? Even Michael Jackson isn't completely honest about everything.

posted October 07, 2017 07:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SleepyDiary:
Who said i was a Madonna fan? 😂 I just disagree with you and believe in her that`s all. Lol

Its like me telling you that you are not whatever Asc that you have because you don`t fit the description of it. Not everything in astrology is going to be on point even though you have those placements. For example my friend she has an Scorpio rising with pluto in the first conjunct it and you would have never guessed she is one. And another friend she is a Virgo rising but she looks and acts way more like her sun sign in leo.

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posted October 07, 2017 08:36 AM            

quote:

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Some of her behavior is very Virgo-like. Her diet and workouts are very strict. She's a perfectionist and very particular and detailed.

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Her moon sign is Virgo.

quote:

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Her career is planned out in detail. Yes, she does shock us, but it's also partly all planned and calculating.

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She has three personal planets in earth, and two in fixed fire. That combination will express that way. Earth & fire.

quote:

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She's very controlled in her actions. She also admitted she has a Virgo Moon in one Youtube interview video. The video is from 1995, I remember.

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Mars in Taurus.