posted December 07, 2018 02:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
depends on the person

i give beggars money and food when i have it, whether theyre homeless or travelers etc

i figure everyone needs something sometimes, if i have then i can give, and hopefully it helps them a little

i grew up in nyc and i've always found that "look away from terrible things and people need help" mentality depressing, i hate the way a lot of people dehumanize the most vulnerable people around them

makes me feel sick

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posted December 07, 2018 02:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
depends on the person

i give beggars money and food when i have it, whether theyre homeless or travelers etc

i figure everyone needs something sometimes, if i have then i can give, and hopefully it helps them a little

i grew up in nyc and i've always found that "look away from terrible things and people need help" mentality depressing, i hate the way a lot of people dehumanize the most vulnerable people around them

makes me feel sick

---

posted December 07, 2018 02:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda_S:
There was always this conflict between me and my ex husband (Leo moon) as to who deserves money to be borrowed to when they need it. He was always super biased towards his friends, but anyone else who lacked class he didn't feel responsible for. You can ask for money, but you need to have dignity when doing so. But if you're known for being cheap he'll probably just ignore you. Not only with money, the people he generally interacts with. He wants to be able to feel proud with those he's seen with.

---

i guess i don't really get that because i see it like the people who need it most are the ones who probably can't pay you back

i mean i have no problem lending to friends (i do it without strings or expectations and prefer to give them money than ask for it back, but if i get it back that's cool) and so on, but i don't think it really makes sense to see people who have or will have as more deserving than people who don't and won't

a beggar on the street is just as likely to get something from me as family

i also don't really care much about money, in the sense that i find it stupid because its only real value comes from people playing along with the idea that it has any ultimately

more important and valuable things in life

posted December 07, 2018 03:04 PM            

Respect or admiration does not come from status or how much money you have for me at all.

I will add that some Leos can be incredibly generous, Leo in decan 2 is at the decan of Sagittarius after all.

posted December 07, 2018 08:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
you're completely wrong

i have a virgo sun and i would never treat someone that way

as a child i was taught to stuff my own feelings down, as a result i make sure to not do that to other people

i don't see my own feelings as very important but other people's? definitely, even strangers

i've stayed up all night with perfect strangers because they were suicidal and needed someone to listen

as for unconditional love

i can definitely feel that, i do for my fiancee in spite of every up and down we've been through i love her the same as i always have if not more as the years go by and it hasnt been an easy relationship

it's very hard for me to stop caring once i care, i never have actually even when there's been distance or fights etc

i have a leo mercury as well btw

if someone is hardened i can feel bad for them because i know there's vulnerability there but i'm not more inclined towards them than i am someone sensitive

i don't think it's healthy for people to stuff things down, though i can acknowledge the necessity in letting things go (i think that's different though), still i think part of that can be processing and experiencing the emotions they have

and then gaining tools to get through that, i try to teach people mindfulness and meditation to help them cope but i'm also always happy to listen

i can't hear someone suffer without feeling a pull towards them and this intense desire to want to make them feel better

i don't even care if they like me or appreciate it, i just can't handle seeing people in pain without trying to help

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posted December 07, 2018 08:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Selenite:
I was talking about the perverted expression of Virgo energy, and OP's dad is a Virgo Sun acting negatively

---

didn't come off that way, at all, as a matter of fact you adding in your own placements made it seem like you were describing some of your own attitudes and just generally speaking about the sign rather than negative expression of it

is what it is, perspective and all that, but being more clear would've helped with that

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I have venus conjunct mars in leo to be fair and I don't care about money and don't hang out with rich people, I have never had an obsession with class or money, on the contrary, it has never impressed me, even as a kid I didn't want to grow up to be rich, I wanted to be middle class. I tend to date people who have less money than me actually, that is my pattern.

Respect or admiration does not come from status or how much money you have for me at all.

I will add that some Leos can be incredibly generous, Leo in decan 2 is at the decan of Sagittarius after all.

Dumuzi has Mercury in Leo ruling his SUN in Decan 2 at 17degrees.

---

i can be generous yeah, with money and with things

i just don't really feel an attachment to anything material other than some books and my guitar and aside from drugs (and i'll share those too) i dont really care about buying things so i dont see it as a big deal really

posted December 07, 2018 09:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda_S:
My South Node in my second house, was never attracted to status. Actually super annoying when someone values the opinion of someone with money vs those with taste or whatever. Like people actually do that.

---

i find it more sad than annoying, but i agree

posted December 08, 2018 02:23 AM            

Whereas a vulnerable person will expect you to be "soulful" and open up to them with some kind of "real" friendship. That can be threatening for someone who does not want to surrender and be vulnerable. Vulnerability = trust, which means someone can hurt them. Scorpio comes to mind, with their lack of trust, especially if they've been betrayed one too many times.

Opening up, regardless of whether or not they get hurt or taken advantage of, indicates having faith in others and themselves.

This makes me think of ill aspected Jupiter, or harshly aspected Sagittarius placements.

Every Aquarius sun I have ever met has been like this, especially at first, before getting to know me. They REALLY don't like sharing their feelings. And if you don't know them well, best not to visit their intentions, or emotions, or even try to read them and talk to them about it. I understand this, so I don't push.
Aquarius is known for its fear of being hurt, so can go either way for them, either be harsh about it, or just "close off" completely. I've noted them sometimes having disdain for vulnerable types, yet preferring hardened individuals who also wish to avoid certain "feels". Aquarius is also not in its element as the sun sign, so there's likely a battle between heart and head, and sometimes, for some of them, they may tend to close off and/or hide the heart, and prefer to be around tough people who don't get blubbery with them and just keep it in the intellect.

I've also seen it in Capricorns, who will become cool and closed off. They can also sometimes have a utilitarian outlook, so the vulnerable person may not be seen as useful in a practical way.

There is also the possibility that some view "niceness" as being fake. While sure, kindness is great, but many in life have learned, if someone's really nice to you, it's possibly because they want to use you as a means to an end. Kindness isn't always fake, but for some, it can be a way of pulling the wool over someone's eyes.

posted December 08, 2018 06:21 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Selenite:
@Dumuzi I think that the negative expression of each sign can be expressed by anyone, not just people who are generally awful, so in a way I did mean it the way it came off. What I wrote was just what I see as the specific negative tendencies of Virgo from my experience with them. Not about how they are in general, but when they're unhealthy, what I wrote is often what's going on underneath the cruelty. A lot of stuff about martyrdom and being deserving.

---

so it was what i said, you think no person with virgo is capable of unconditional love and so on

just because something isn't currently being expressed doesn't mean it isn't there and according to you it is there it's just a matter of someone showing their negative side

which again, is way off

if that describes you and other unhealthy people in your life maybe that says more about you and the people you might attract than it does about an entire sign

as for sacrifice, i don't think anyone is required to sacrifice things, though obviously no one can always get what they want or need and sometimes conflicting needs can require sacrifice on another person's part... but i think most people grasp that situations like that arise from time to time, i doubt that means they come from the standpoint of thinking it should be the other person or that anyone is going to offer

and the concept of deserving is no different than the concept of karma so many people preoccupy themselves with, believe in wholeheartedly (i don't personally past basic cause and effect, and only sometimes if things work out that way), and hope exists when something negative happens to them and so on

that isn't a virgo trait so much as it's frequently a human one

still i think it's more than a little crazy to expect others to sacrifice for you, or to expect that you deserve something for doing something nice etc and so on

it's interesting how you've backtracked, twisted things around, and implied i was mistaken only to end up repeating yourself and saying exactly what you said you didn't say

do you do that sort of thing often? because it doesn't work well

i guess you could read the first thing i wrote to you again, because it still stands and none of what you've said since changes that, only reinforces it

sorry you've had people like that in your life, maybe that's why you can be that way, but it's not a particular sign

posted December 08, 2018 07:11 AM            

I'm only a virgo asc, saturn decan. I have not yet met any virgo sun, merc, venus or mars that is as virgo as I am (or well, one virgo sun but he is very saturnian). Thats weird I know, anyways.

I have acted that way as a teenager, I have been harsh to people I had back then seen as a not on my level.

Not weakness let me be clear, because I have and always had a hug bleading heart and empathy for people in need and people others would see as weak (neptunian).

But it happened that I would wanna push away people who I felt was not on my level, intelligence wise or something else hard to pinpoint.

For me, I would say its a plutonian thing.

I would say I like powerful people. I have for ex always been that kind of student that would test my teachers.

Is this teacher a true leder? Is this a person who really knows what he/she is talking about?

The one who always tested authorities, and their "Legitimacy".

Like what wolves in a flock does. They always test the power of the wolfpacks leader. This is more about respect for true and legit power that is not missused btw.

So yeah scorpio/pluto themes, in my case.

I can believe leo may be this way too, but they may wanna be the leader even when they are not fit for it, I may be wrong though.

I would never and still won't ever be kind or reasonable with, or show respect etc to a harsh or bullying person.

What kind of weird ass psychology is that anyway?

I have been in contact with this type of people in highschool.

And I have alays been harsh and cruel back to those b''tches. I can't stand arrogance, envy, jelousy or people who wanna push others around.

I would be harsh and bad to thos people. Talk to them in their language. I would think back then that, yeah they may have some issues at home and they only wanna be hugged and loved etc, but sorry, not my way.

No one deserves my sympathies by being harsh and cold.

posted December 08, 2018 02:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:
so it was what i said, you think no person with virgo is capable of unconditional love and so on

just because something isn't currently being expressed doesn't mean it isn't there and according to you it is there it's just a matter of someone showing their negative side

which again, is way off

if that describes you and other unhealthy people in your life maybe that says more about you and the people you might attract than it does about an entire sign

as for sacrifice, i don't think anyone is required to sacrifice things, though obviously no one can always get what they want or need and sometimes conflicting needs can require sacrifice on another person's part... but i think most people grasp that situations like that arise from time to time, i doubt that means they come from the standpoint of thinking it should be the other person or that anyone is going to offer

and the concept of deserving is no different than the concept of karma so many people preoccupy themselves with, believe in wholeheartedly (i don't personally past basic cause and effect, and only sometimes if things work out that way), and hope exists when something negative happens to them and so on

that isn't a virgo trait so much as it's frequently a human one

still i think it's more than a little crazy to expect others to sacrifice for you, or to expect that you deserve something for doing something nice etc and so on

it's interesting how you've backtracked, twisted things around, and implied i was mistaken only to end up repeating yourself and saying exactly what you said you didn't say

do you do that sort of thing often? because it doesn't work well

i guess you could read the first thing i wrote to you again, because it still stands and none of what you've said since changes that, only reinforces it

sorry you've had people like that in your life, maybe that's why you can be that way, but it's not a particular sign

ever consider you find a good deal of people with a similar aspect that does it?

---

posted December 08, 2018 03:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Selenite:
I'm not really backtracking, you're just taking it personally but it wasn't meant to be applied for all virgos. There may be a misunderstanding here because I've been using the words 'tendencies,' and 'perverted,' and 'unhealthy' to describe what I mean as a specific thing about Virgo energy, not to be applied to all Virgos. All the signs tend towards certain ways when they're unhealthy, and that's what I have experienced is the 'flavor' for an unhealthy Virgo. Sorry if that was unclear, I tend to babble on this forum and now I see that it's affecting people negatively so I'm gonna stop lol

---

I did not interpreted what you wrote about virgo energy as too mean or negative, we are just talking about "energies" and how some people exhibit the traits connected to that sign/placement/energies. So personally I'm all ok with that.

And you were clear enough in previous posts imo

I have done the mistake where I have overgeneralized or wrote too definitive about things at this forum bc, well pluto in 3rd

And man that did rub some people the wrong way in some occasions :/ .

With some, it would not even help when I tried to own up to that and tried to meet them the halfway .

Some just wanna misunderstand you, whatever you say to explain what you ment.. sigh

Sometimes I just could not see what I did say wrong. I blame the emotionlessness in text communication^^

So I too try to be more clear and not to overgeneralize, even though its hard to not wound some people from time to time
------------------------------------------

I think virgos can be soo cold. I know I can be (only virg asc).

I'm very interested in decans nowdays though. Because coldness is something I associate with capricorn and saturn. And virgo second decans is ruled by saturn. Dunno if it works with sun etc virgos too though.

Or atleast, virgo placement people with strong saturnian energies/aspects, those I can imagine how cold/harsh etc they could be .

posted December 08, 2018 03:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Selenite:
I'm not really backtracking, you're just taking it personally but it wasn't meant to be applied for all virgos. There may be a misunderstanding here because I've been using the words 'tendencies,' and 'perverted,' and 'unhealthy' to describe what I mean as a specific thing about Virgo energy, not to be applied to all Virgos. All the signs tend towards certain ways when they're unhealthy, and that's what I have experienced is the 'flavor' for an unhealthy Virgo. Sorry if that was unclear, I tend to babble on this forum and now I see that it's affecting people negatively so I'm gonna stop lol

---

i didn't take it personally, i was just pointing out i can't relate

i actually can't think of anyone with virgo placements that i know who's like what you described

i'm not upset, i'm just telling you're wrong and disagreeing, you're free to say whatever you want no one's stopping you lol it'd be weird to just not because one time someone was like "you're wrong (insert reasons/experiences here)"

i saw you mention your placements along with your views , i figured i'd point out mine along with mine and maybe we'd actually get somewhere with narrowing the issue

anyway it seems you can't handle discussion or disagreements though so maybe it'd be better for you if you didn't idk... but it's not my problem either way

i can't take something personal when it's being said by someone who doesn't know me, that seems more than a little ridiculous lol not sure why you think that

you don't know me, so it's all projection though i hope you realize that... you aren't negatively affecting me by having an opinion, why would your opinion have that much weight?

i just thought you were probably blaming the wrong thing

how else are people supposed to reach some kind of understanding about the way astrology works without any sort of discussion or consensus?

if you say one thing and it's been the opposite for someone else then it might be safe to say something is being overlooked on one end or the other, but you can't know that without talking can you?

by all means change the way you interact with people if you see fit, but don't do it my account because i wasnt affected on any emotional level i was just shooting **** and talking

it does look an awful lot like youre backtracking though, even still, it's cool but i mean that along with you not just standing by the way you speak is a little... do you have a cancer mars or something?

edit: nevermind im stupid, you said your mars placement already, my bad

posted December 08, 2018 04:16 PM            

I think it is a polite thing to do, to step back a little and rephrase things one said.

We do this normally in face to face interactions. I can start to say something harsh and the next second rephrase it bc I be like "oh **** did not mean it that way".

In writing one can sometimes be in a different mindset and then go into an other mindset.

Sometimes we write things too forwardly without reading it thorough before hitting send. And then later on be like oh I was too this or too that. Its just human

posted December 08, 2018 04:44 PM            

These things happen sometimes, its okay, you are both great people and you and Dumuzi both have awesome moon in aries ..you guys are not seeing eye to eye in this one instance, its all good.

posted December 08, 2018 05:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Melinn:
Omg Dumuzi the irony! Associating backtracking with cancer mars, now you are overgeneralizing

I think it is a polite thing to do, to step back a little and rephrase things one said.

We do this normally in face to face interactions. I can start to say something harsh and the next second rephrase it bc I be like "oh **** did not mean it that way".

In writing one can sometimes be in a different mindset and then go into an other mindset.

Sometimes we write things too forwardly without reading it thorough before hitting send. And then later on be like og I was too this or too that. Its just human

PS: I have nothing in cancer, but I have learned some from a libra guy friend about diplomatic phrasings haha

---

me saying that wasn't about just the backtracking, to me it also seemed weak rather than diplomatic

you put a lot of feelings on me that i don't have and then wrote about changing your behavior because of an interaction etc

i mentioned cancer mars in particular because their mars is opposite mine and i can find them to be that way

so it was multiple things you did that seemed that way to me but i suppose you falling in my 12th house could do it too

i don't see it as polite to rephrase things necessarily when some of what you've said is "i sort of was saying that" followed by "i didnt say that" etc and so on

it seems more just like an inability to deal with a conflicting opinion than anything and comes off as wishy washy to me

so yeah... wasn't about that one thing

you're really not a good judge of where i'm coming from honestly, both my feelings and reasons

it's not a big deal, just sort of funny how much projection is there

posted December 08, 2018 05:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:
me saying that wasn't about just the backtracking, to me it also seemed weak rather than diplomatic

you put a lot of feelings on me that i don't have and then wrote about changing your behavior because of an interaction etc

i mentioned cancer mars in particular because their mars is opposite mine and i can find them to be that way

so it was multiple things you did that seemed that way to me but i suppose you falling in my 12th house could do it too

i don't see it as polite to rephrase things necessarily when some of what you've said is "i sort of was saying that" followed by "i didnt say that" etc and so on

it seems more just like an inability to deal with a conflicting opinion than anything and comes off as wishy washy to me

so yeah... wasn't about that one thing

you're really not a good judge of where i'm coming from honestly, both my feelings and reasons

it's not a big deal, just sort of funny how much projection is there

---

Were you addressing me in this? I'm a bit confused since I did not judge/criticize you (meaning what you said in post etc)

I just wanted to give an other percpective.

In any ways, as an Aries stellium and Moon conjunct Mars person and being plutonic, I understand how and what you mean I believe, about diplomacy etc.

I for ex still have a really reeeally hard time with libra type of energy.
I often can be very blunt and irl I like to confront things/people directly. I can't beat around the bush. (unless I have a very plutonicsaturnian synastry with a love interest/crush, then I'm really off balance and so inderect I will literally cry bc of frustration about not being able to be super forward ahaha)

And usually I always have to "talk things through (yikes so horrid! Gemini moon..)

Some call it "setting healthy boundries". Some call it, other things..

posted December 08, 2018 05:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Melinn:

Where you addressing me in this? I'm a bit confused since I did not judge/criticize you (meaning what you said in post etc)

I just wanted to give an other percpective.

In any ways, as an Aries stellium person and being plutonic, I understand how and what you mean.

I for ex still have a really reeeally hard time with libra type of energy.
I often can be very blunt and irl I like to confront things/people directly. I can't beat around the bush. And I have to "talk things through (yikes so horrid! Gemini moon)

Some call it "setting healthy boundries". Some call it other things..

But diplomacy thing is really rubbing of on me lately, since I discovered how much it is helping me with my relationship with more libra/7th house type of friends and with high sensetive family members

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you said i was taking things personal spoke about how you were negatively affecting people with your words (you didnt) and said i said the cancer mars thing based on one thing (backtracking), that to me is you giving me emotion and reasons in your head rather than seeing my motivations

you didnt judge or criticize me you just made assumptions so i said as much

you really go to the harshest thing huh?

i have a libra ascendant and venus conjunct, and honestly? stick to the aries **** , for real, this diplomacy thing doesnt seem to suit you lol i think you might be trying too hard

posted December 08, 2018 05:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:

you said i was taking things personal spoke about how you were negatively affecting people with your words (oyu didnt) and said i said the cancer mars thing based on one thing (backtracking), that to me is you giving me emotion and reasons in your head rather than seeing my motivations

you didnt judge or criticize me you just made assumptions so i said as much

you really go to the harshest thing huh?

i have a libra ascendant and venus conjunct, and honestly? stick to the aries **** , for real, this diplomacy thing doesnt seem to suit you lol i think you might be trying too hard

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Whut?! I was just joking with the mars cancer thing to lighten things up I used an emoji and all to avoid misunderstandings :/

It was a JOKE not an assumption. Where can someone read assumptions into that joke?

Now you are assuming things about me about assuming things

Also it was one sentence where I joked.

ALL the rest was just a percpective about communication styles, nothing about you.

You can even call it a general monologue about communication. Read it again and you will see, no addressing of anyone. Just a joke and then me going about my percpective about communication.
-------------------

I wanna say " Gee, chill man" but I know that would be like gasoline on fire for an aries moon,

posted December 08, 2018 06:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Melinn:
Whut?! I was just joking with the mars cancer thing to lighten things up I used an emoji and all to avoid misunderstandings :/

It was a JOKE not an assumption. Where can someone read assumptions into that joke?

Now you are assuming things about me about assuming things

Also it was one sentence where I joked.

ALL the rest was just a percpective about communication styles, nothing about you.

You can even call it a general monologue about communication. Read it again and you will see, no addressing of anyone. Just a joke and then me going about my percpective about communication.

---

i'm not even mad though lol or anything

i think we just don't communicate well, or aren't right now

oh well, either way, don't change or stop talking even if it offends people

that was the only thing you said that i actually found troublesome, that you would consider altering yourself over nothing or someone else's perception of you

only thing i've been legit ****** today has been fitted sheets, i ******* hate those

posted December 09, 2018 05:34 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:
i didn't take it personally, i was just pointing out i can't relate

i actually can't think of anyone with virgo placements that i know who's like what you described

i'm not upset, i'm just telling you're wrong and disagreeing, you're free to say whatever you want no one's stopping you lol it'd be weird to just not because one time someone was like "you're wrong (insert reasons/experiences here)"

i saw you mention your placements along with your views , i figured i'd point out mine along with mine and maybe we'd actually get somewhere with narrowing the issue

anyway it seems you can't handle discussion or disagreements though so maybe it'd be better for you if you didn't idk... but it's not my problem either way

i can't take something personal when it's being said by someone who doesn't know me, that seems more than a little ridiculous lol not sure why you think that

you don't know me, so it's all projection though i hope you realize that... you aren't negatively affecting me by having an opinion, why would your opinion have that much weight?

i just thought you were probably blaming the wrong thing

how else are people supposed to reach some kind of understanding about the way astrology works without any sort of discussion or consensus?

if you say one thing and it's been the opposite for someone else then it might be safe to say something is being overlooked on one end or the other, but you can't know that without talking can you?

by all means change the way you interact with people if you see fit, but don't do it my account because i wasnt affected on any emotional level i was just shooting **** and talking

it does look an awful lot like youre backtracking though, even still, it's cool but i mean that along with you not just standing by the way you speak is a little... do you have a cancer mars or something?

edit: nevermind im stupid, you said your mars placement already, my bad

the way you were speaking i normally only see from cancer mars placements

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You mention Cancer Mars. Ironically my grandpa also has that placement.

posted December 09, 2018 07:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SoulOfABird:
You mention Cancer Mars. Ironically my grandpa also has that placement.

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well that's interesting, because cancer mars can be assertive when there's no reason to be and then not at all when they should be

my mother has cancer mars, so did an ex friend with benefits, and a friend of mine i speak to infrequently too

that being said i do think it's afactor, but i actually dont know anyone with that placement who's particularly cruel

but it can definitely explain some of the misplaced energy, probably along with the other placements