posted April 23, 2019 09:16 PM            

Strong Ceres? Venus? Not something that becomes romantic, so maybe not Venus. But unconditional love, almost like romancing the friendship, without demanding commitment.

Actually what comes to mind is a bit of Casanova (maybe sans most of the sexual aspect though, but the vibe). In this aspect, I have Ceres conjunct Casanova, both right on the DC. Could this be the cause? I want to romance everyone, make them feel loved and cherished just for being them.

posted April 24, 2019 08:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
You have Mars in Aqua? Or perhaps air signs in sexual placements i.e Air in 8th, Air in 7th, Air in 5th, Mars/ Venus in air or Eros in Air. Or even Mars in aspect to Uranus or Uranus in aspect to Venus.

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posted April 24, 2019 09:35 AM            

which is ****** of me, but that's true all the same

so not usually entirely platonic in my case, but i do treat friendships that way even when i don't have any immediate desire for anything else

the times it isn't about sex being a possibility it's about feeling like people should feel cared for and have someone in their life who doesn't discard them for being themselves or going through **** etc

i don't care for putting a lot of conditions or boundaries on something that ultimately should be given freely regardless if it's actually there

my ceres is 12th or 1st depending on house system, and my casanova is 11th or 12th doing nothing unless you're one of those people who counts minor asteroid trines in which case it's exact trine my mars

posted April 24, 2019 09:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
I see platonic caring or even platonic love is more air imo. Even in relationships with two air Moons who are "in love", there is a platonic essence still underlying that relation.

Cancer/Moon in 11th
Scorpio/Pluto in 11th
Ruler of the 8th in 11th
Ruler of the 11th in 8th
Ruler of 4th in 11th
Ruler of 11th in 4th

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Hmm but platonic love can come from everyone and anyone. I think really feeling the love of a friendship and not expecting anything else {like romantic/sexual} or outright rejecting it, like even if the person is of potential attraction range, is a particular temperament in itself. I've observed it in low air people, ime.

But OP conflates platonic love with romantic love, but these are two separate boundaries. Familial and friend bond is different on its own. it seems like OP is mostly talking about being friends with somebody with a flirtatiousness and sensual attitude behind it? That's kind of different than the airy thing that is proposed but idk

posted April 24, 2019 10:02 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
You have Mars in Aqua? Or perhaps air signs in sexual placements i.e Air in 8th, Air in 7th, Air in 5th, Mars/ Venus in air or Eros in Air. Or even Mars in aspect to Uranus or Uranus in aspect to Venus.

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i have uranus sextile venus, venus in libra, aquarius 5th house, and eros in aquarius and there's still a sexual tone to it when i behave in a similar manner to op rather than just platonic in nearly all cases (and only due to a lack of physical attraction or differences in sexuality in cases where it's not a thing tbh) so i wouldn't say those aspects necessarily indicated that behavior

posted April 24, 2019 10:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
i doubt it's the asteroids, but i both can and can't relate in the sense that i will do that in friendships but it's also usually from a place of "just in case the opportunity to get laid arises" or to keep that possibility open even if i'm not interested just in case i'm having a bad day and need to drown in someone else a while or something (not dating though)

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posted April 24, 2019 10:21 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TuxLuigi:
Hmm but platonic love can come from everyone and anyone. I think really feeling the love of a friendship and not expecting anything else {like romantic/sexual} or outright rejecting it, like even if the person is of potential attraction range, is a particular temperament in itself. I've observed it in low air people, ime.

But OP conflates platonic love with romantic love, but these are two separate boundaries. Familial and friend bond is different on its own. it seems like OP is mostly talking about being friends with somebody with a flirtatiousness and sensual attitude behind it? That's kind of different than the airy thing that is proposed but idk

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i got more of the relationship without the sex vibe from the op (what they said about casanova really did it), though i agree it probably isn't air and instead would've assumed water had more to do with it element wise

all the parts of a relationship that aren't sexual, and no dating because with dating comes to expectation of sex among other things and it seems like implosions is looking at things from a more asexual side of things still craving intimacy

telling someone you love them is nonsexual, physical contact can be nonsexual (holding hands cuddling hugging etc), being there for them, showing them love, making them feel special, being committed (unconditional love is a commitment as much as it is a feeling) etc and so on are all nonsexual and it seems like they want that side of things and then nothing past it

which i guess could be construed as flirtacious but isn't necessarily

posted April 24, 2019 10:44 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
i got more of the relationship without the sex vibe from the op (what they said about casanova really did it), though i agree it probably isn't air and instead would've assumed water had more to do with it element wise

all the parts of a relationship that aren't sexual, and no dating because with dating comes to expectation of sex among other things and it seems like implosions is looking at things from a more asexual side of things still craving intimacy

telling someone you love them is nonsexual, physical contact can be nonsexual (holding hands cuddling hugging etc), being there for them, showing them love, making them feel special, being committed (unconditional love is a commitment as much as it is a feeling) etc and so on are all nonsexual and it seems like they want that side of things and then nothing past it

which i guess could be construed as flirtacious but isn't necessarily

they're describing something that almost isn't platonic

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Yeah.

Platonic friendship to me, is like those friendships you had pre-puberty (you know the ones) or the ones in Middle School right before everything became about competing for the opposite sex attention or trying to get laid, lol, when you two would get excited just talking to each other, and discussing everything and anything, and doing stuff together like going out, traveling, ect.

That's like a platonic friendship in its extremity, which has its emotional side too. I am thinking the PLANETS rather than the elements are more important than this. So venus is social and the planet of friendship, and Jupiter is magnanimity and loving. So it is Jupiter/Venus or Venus/Mercury type of aspects that would be prominent. Or something the 11th house ruler is doing, along with what Venus is doing

posted April 24, 2019 11:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TuxLuigi:

Yeah.

Platonic friendship to me, is like those friendships you had pre-puberty (you know the ones) or the ones in Middle School right before everything became about competing for the opposite sex attention or trying to get laid, lol, when you two would get excited just talking to each other, and discussing everything and anything, and doing stuff together like going out, traveling, ect.

That's like a platonic friendship in its extremity, which has its emotional side too. I am thinking the PLANETS rather than the elements are more important than this. So venus is social and the planet of friendship, and Jupiter is magnanimity and loving. So it is Jupiter/Venus or Venus/Mercury type of aspects that would be prominent. Or something the 11th house ruler is doing, along with what Venus is doing

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yeah i get you, my first thought was people i drink with are the closest to that that i have as an adult, aside from a couple of people i'm not attracted to but feel a connection to in a sort of family sense but not entirely (which is what you're talking about it sounds like, that closeness of basically being family except you chose them so they're probably better than family) which is slightly different than what op is saying because the commitment level is different

those particular friendships aren't quite like sexless romantic relationships though, at least in my experience my "sexless romantic relationships" are typically only platonic by circumstance and boundaries set by life that i know could be dismantled given a push

the reason why i said water was that i was specifically thinking about pisces, because with pisces in particular there can sometimes be that connection to people on a spiritual level that won't extend to the material world and i think a planet in pisces or a planet being aspected by something in pisces might produce that kind of nature (i've seen heavy pisces people be turned off from physical reality in some cases, usually when they have something in the 12th house too)

i wouldn't necessarily count venus in aspect to mercury, mostly because i have the sextile myself and i can't relate to the more asexual side of things

though i do compulsively flirt and have relationships like what they describe with people "just in case," it's just that i have them on the side of sexual relationships and am comfortable with the possibility of sex which could be the aspect being offset by a lot of other aspects in my case if i'm being fair (my venus and mercury are both part of a larger pattern with other planets involved)

they're talking about a sort of neutered version of that, which i guess could still be affected by a mercury-venus aspect

my fiancee has venus trine jupiter and it doesn't manifest quite like that in her case, and in some cases can lead to excess and it's why i think in spite of her having a scorpio venus conjunct pluto she's fine with us being somewhat open and sharing other people (she's the best off the top of my head example i have) trines can lead to excess though just generally speaking

i've noticed venus-neptune can have a quality where they're unaware of when things are mutually platonic and when they aren't, because she has that too and can be very innocent when it comes to people she doesn't see as sexual (even when it's obvious it isn't like that to them) because in her head it's platonic and that's just how it is

so i could see neptune doing that, uranus in a sense maybe because it can add detachment but i feel like venus would have to be in a more sensitive water sign for uranus to have that effect in aspect

posted April 24, 2019 12:24 PM            

Ceres is a good one, too.

Maybe, Isis

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posted April 24, 2019 02:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
yeah i get you, my first thought was people i drink with are the closest to that that i have as an adult, aside from a couple of people i'm not attracted to but feel a connection to in a sort of family sense but not entirely (which is what you're talking about it sounds like, that closeness of basically being family except you chose them so they're probably better than family) which is slightly different than what op is saying because the commitment level is different

those particular friendships aren't quite like sexless romantic relationships though, at least in my experience my "sexless romantic relationships" are typically only platonic by circumstance and boundaries set by life that i know could be dismantled given a push

the reason why i said water was that i was specifically thinking about pisces, because with pisces in particular there can sometimes be that connection to people on a spiritual level that won't extend to the material world and i think a planet in pisces or a planet being aspected by something in pisces might produce that kind of nature (i've seen heavy pisces people be turned off from physical reality in some cases, usually when they have something in the 12th house too)

i wouldn't necessarily count venus in aspect to mercury, mostly because i have the sextile myself and i can't relate to the more asexual side of things

though i do compulsively flirt and have relationships like what they describe with people "just in case," it's just that i have them on the side of sexual relationships and am comfortable with the possibility of sex which could be the aspect being offset by a lot of other aspects in my case if i'm being fair (my venus and mercury are both part of a larger pattern with other planets involved)

they're talking about a sort of neutered version of that, which i guess could still be affected by a mercury-venus aspect

my fiancee has venus trine jupiter and it doesn't manifest quite like that in her case, and in some cases can lead to excess and it's why i think in spite of her having a scorpio venus conjunct pluto she's fine with us being somewhat open and sharing other people (she's the best off the top of my head example i have) trines can lead to excess though just generally speaking

i've noticed venus-neptune can have a quality where they're unaware of when things are mutually platonic and when they aren't, because she has that too and can be very innocent when it comes to people she doesn't see as sexual (even when it's obvious it isn't like that to them) because in her head it's platonic and that's just how it is

so i could see neptune doing that, uranus in a sense maybe because it can add detachment but i feel like venus would have to be in a more sensitive water sign for uranus to have that effect in aspect

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So the 1st one which you describend seems normal in the sense of everyone has it or can. But people who seek it out regulalr and prefer it are different.

Hmmm okay...

I dont know what is it then lol. Chart ruler/moon/venus all those factors ect. Cant be pinned to one besides that + 11th house ruler function

posted April 24, 2019 03:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TuxLuigi:

So the 1st one which you describend seems normal in the sense of everyone has it or can. But people who seek it out regulalr and prefer it are different.

Hmmm okay...

I dont know what is it then lol. Chart ruler/moon/venus all those factors ect. Cant be pinned to one besides that + 11th house ruler function

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maybe i have those in my chart too lol chart ruler-moon and moon-venus (same in my chart, my chart ruler is venus and it's opposite my moon), so a lot of what's been guessed i have which is interesting because i can relate to op in a sense and then not at all with the asexual side of things

although i've also had friends with benefits who i haven't wanted to interact with outside of the way i do platonic friends for the most part aside from sex, but no desire to show them love at all is what i mean

with them it's just i want to hang out a little have sex no strings or anything attached whenever but no desire to talk to them much outside of that

i still get what they mean though because when i feel particularly connected to someone they bring out that other side of me that wants to show them unconditional everything, but it's never totally asexual even if i treat it that way (to an extent) because the possibility is there and i've noticed in those cases when the possibility feels too far gone i lose interest

had that happen with a friend i had around for years through a lot when she was getting remarried and in the honeymoon phase of things with that guy was going and it was serious i walked away from that; i feel guilty occasionally she had cancer at the time too (likely still does, from what i know she was pretty screwed with that just slowing things down) but it was a complicated usually unpleasant friendship anyway

i can see possibilities with some of the aspects listed because of how they've manifested for me, that's why i'm really stuck on the elemental side of things (which i really don't care for doing since sidereal placements can work so well and show how irrelevant sign can be in the first place) wondering if sign makes a difference

maybe it's house that does it

@implosions mind just posting your chart? be easier to not guess blindly

posted April 24, 2019 04:56 PM            

Ami Anne you mentioned Isis- I do have that one conjunct my IC and opposite Ceres/Square my Moon. But I also am not entirely sure of how Isis works in a chart.

posted April 24, 2019 05:59 PM            

i remember seeing your chart now, the 0 degree angles/planets thread you made, i liked how all your angles were 0 degrees and the houses were in order because **** like that is perfect and i've never seen it outside of your chart

the water doesn't surprise me at all, and knowing that sex can be part of the equation it makes sense that it's in a sign that isn't pisces

initially i was under the impression these were nonsexual and that sex coming up wouldn't be ok, which is why i said water but wouldn't have guessed scorpio

water just because of that emotional depth but without the dating (which usually adds emotional depth and commitment for people, though even there most people don't love unconditionally)

same with the venus-neptune sextile you have, because my fiancee has that and i can see where that can blur lines (also adds that pisces energy to your venus)

venus-mercury doesn't surprise me either after what TuxLuigi pointed out and had me think on

saturn being in easy aspect to both venus and mercury is interesting probably adds that sense of responsibility to the way you can feel towards people

posted April 24, 2019 06:54 PM            

Ceres and my DC do trine my NN in aquarius, and Casanova trines Lilith there too, which could explain the intense reactions I've had to this kind of mindset. I'm also weak for unavailable types lmao probably because I tend to be one.

The generational planets in contact with my personal as well like you mentioned are probably big here. I dont think about them that much, honestly. Sometimes I wonder if my style of interacting is very intimate by the standards of what most people are used to, so they aren't sure how to take it. I've had many backlash moments of them being put off when they realize I'm not actually interested like that.

posted April 24, 2019 08:56 PM            

yeah he just does that sort of thing, and there was a while in between girlfriends where me and him would laugh about how he has all these really hot female friends and then it'd go nowhere and sometimes it'd be blatantly because he just didn't make a move when he'd have an opening

he's found it frustrating sometimes but has a sense of humor about it at least, and the relationship he's in now is serious and he was in a long term one before that so it works out for him still

but the friends thing has happened a lot with him and potential relationships

i think part of it is getting caught up on the communication and friendship part, the talking, and then with the retrograde pushing it forward is harder

i don't know much about lilith admittedly, it's strong in my chart (i have it conjunct chiron almost exact, sextile moon/descendant, sextile mercury, trine venus/ascendant) but the descriptions are loaded in a lot of feminist agenda **** that i find hard to read through

you probably definitely have a tendency to come off that way, and yeah people aren't used to that kind of thing and it can seem like more to a lot of people, because most people generally only have intensity like that for people they're into

i'm weird in the sense that i can interact intimately with people while being very detached and as a result i dont take that behavior seriously in other people, all my intimate relationships and close friendships etc have been with pluto/scorpio prominent people though which is kind of funny

but i understand why people might react like that towards you given the way a lot of people are (people seem to generally take a lot of things very seriously when it comes to other people and their interactions)

posted April 25, 2019 04:09 AM            

What you're saying though is completely different from what I thought you were saying.
What you're describing makes me think 3 men (not many but I don't know others with this placement) who have Jupiter in 5th H. None of them has water/earth Moon, I would like to see how Jupiter in 5th H would play out especially with a water Moon. I don't believe a watery Moon (unless heavily afflicted maybe?) would feel like that. So Sag and Gemini even Aries and Libra Moons could be like that if paired with Jupiter in 5th H.
The 3 men I know have Moon in Sag, Gemini and Aries.

I remember those 3 and they came to my mind because they felt just like you're describing it which imo is extreme.
Another one who comes close but not as extreme is a person with Libra Moon and Venus, in hard aspect to both Neptune and Jupiter without having Saturn/Pluto on any of them. I'm not sure about his Sun I can maybe find his birth details but I don't know his birth time.
I remember charts and patterns for specific reasons and I remember those four men and I wanted to see their chart in the first place for that exact reason.

It is similar to a man who wanted to have sex with every woman because he wanted to "give" love to all women because he sees them all as equally beautiful creatures who deserved it.. Mars conjunct Neptune, opposite Jupiter, I really wish I knew his tob. In the other cases I mentioned it's also not sexual.

posted April 25, 2019 05:45 AM            

What I find interesting though is the stellium of planetsi in 8th. 8th house people tend to love really intense stuff and avoid the mundane. And perhaps you see the emotional sharing as more exciting in a friendship zone than moving through the ins and outs of a relationship?

This is the case with Venus in Scorpio or Venus/Pluto folks in that they unconsciously undermine the "niceties" of the relationship to get to the "raw" stuff.

If they could bypass dating in order to get to the raw, "reveal your soul" stuff they would. That is maybe why they get so intense very early on. To rush to that?

Ruler of 7th(Venus) in 8th and conjuncts co-ruler of the 8th(Pluto). Things get intense quickly. And ruler of 5th in 8th conjunct Pluto suggests you enjoy these intense associations.

Cancer Chiron however shines a light as to why you don't get "emotionally" involved. There is fear there. Add to that the semi-sextile aspect to Moon in Gemini in 3rd, the rules you make are to protect you and not them.

You want to remain cerebral of the interactions and therefore more in "control" of yourself so you don't get tangled up in "messy" attachments that will tie you down and perhaps even "overwhelm" you(Mars in Gemini easily feels "overwhelmed by things they can't comprehend mentally and runs away from that)

The ruler of the 4th house is in the 3rd house meaning you are emotionally unstable and perhaps too changeable to commit yourself to one thing. You prefer to sample many different things and with North Node in detached Aqua, perhaps that is the point if it all?

Look to declination aspects as I strongly suspect an aspect either between Uranus/Neptune and Moon/Mars or else Moon/Mars parallel(as both would echo this sentiment of rebellion against being "smothered" or wanting to leave things "open ended" on the attachment.

Perhaps even Saturn too because Saturn to Moon/Mars would suggest keeping emotional involvement restrained and looking at bonds made more from a platonic point of view than anything else.

Interestingly your Draco Sun/Venus are conjunct natal Neptune in Capricorn tightly. This could suggest either confusion in sexuality/desires not being clear on one hand. Or an "open ended" boundless approach to sexuality.

Draco Mars in Leo is conjunct natal Jupiter in Leo. You tend to bite off more than you can chew and confuse those who want "more" by seeming to "promise" a lot but not deliver. This may be why things get awkward

posted April 26, 2019 11:54 PM            

My Mars being inconjunct with Neptune and Venus/Sun may speak on this too- my expression is sort of blindly at odds with my sense of feminine expression and also my all-inclusive nature? But then being sextile to Jupiter can throw me way out of bounds too lmao, sometimes (and then the square ... It sometimes feels like a never ending loop with the yods/square going on there).

I hear you on the Lilith issues. I find it hard to find good information that isn't too biased in someone's personal experience- which has it's place but it needs extra reading 'through' it to see the information. I feel Lilith energy is just ... the untouchable femininity. The type of electric or yang-style femininity-- contrasted by Priapus, the more yin-style masculinity. Lilith being the electric charge needed to detangle, and Priapus being the magnetic masculine that wants to merge. But that's a whole other post.

@Aries23 - Wow you really read me here, thank you so much! I had such a good time absorbing this... And you're right on the money for most of it! I really do feel the 'reveal your soul' schtick as ... like the basis of my life? I find anything less than just ends up leading back to there anyway, but I also have learned that although that's how it works for me and my perception of the world, it's nooooot really how other people do. At least, not often.

I've never really looked into Declinations (Delianations?) for my chart, or in general, so that's something I'll have to study up on. I don't really know how that works yet. Weird you mention the smothering though. It's strange because part of me often seeks that type out, or it brings some sense of security- but on the other hand I do strongly rebel against it, and then feel strange when it's not present. A conundrum! But mostly just because I have been finding a healthy balance between smothering/happy presence and freedom.

posted April 27, 2019 09:58 AM            

yeah that will definitely do it, makes it hard for you to notice that kind of thing, and people can easily take things the wrong way when it's something that deviates from what they're used to

i've noticed a lot of people with heavy scorpio can have some spectrum traits or be on the spectrum which is interesting

yeah with lilith you have to be willing to sift through a 3 page essay on feminism in order to learn anything about the placement at all and even then it's filtered through that lens which just makes it annoying

by priapus i'm assuming you mean the hypothetical point? i know the mythology of priapus but i know **** all about the actual hypothetical point though i just looked at where it is in my chart and i have it conjunct my mars by 1 degree

posted April 27, 2019 01:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
@implosions

yeah that will definitely do it, makes it hard for you to notice that kind of thing, and people can easily take things the wrong way when it's something that deviates from what they're used to

i've noticed a lot of people with heavy scorpio can have some spectrum traits or be on the spectrum which is interesting

yeah with lilith you have to be willing to sift through a 3 page essay on feminism in order to learn anything about the placement at all and even then it's filtered through that lens which just makes it annoying

by priapus i'm assuming you mean the hypothetical point? i know the mythology of priapus but i know **** all about the actual hypothetical point though i just looked at where it is in my chart and i have it conjunct my mars by 1 degree

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A number of Scorpio heavy people? That's kind of cool to know! It somewhat makes sense, as Scorpio tends to be the 'life is really intense' sort of thing, so having spectrum traits could be more likely in that sense. I have found a lot of them have a strongly placed Uranus/Chiron (or some odd combination thereof) as well. Mostly Uranus, as it opens them to electrical energy, especially when in contact with an angle.

Yes; I suppose it's never really bothered me as I look at most 'research' to do with astrology as I would if I were at school, you always filter through things anyway, so take what you need and leave it. Same with learning from people, I guess. Plus because Lilith is such a strange/enigma like topic to learn about, it makes sense that personal experience needs to flavor it, IMO. But then to view it in a detached way, is the trick. Maybe. lol.

I am not sure if it's a hypothetical point, haha. I believe the one I'm thinking of is the Natural Perigree (h22) that you can punch in on astro- but I think it might be what you're talking about. Mythos wise he was the son of Venus and Bacchus- so a god of fertility; always had a raging erection and was vying to go. Though that's obviously the westernized/modern simplification of his mythos, so.