posted May 10, 2019 04:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Franco:

Yes, I have contact between quirón and Nodo sur (both at home 7) I also have the same yods as your and mars / jupiter.

I have never understood my yods, do you have information? I recently read an analysis of the Yod of the tragedy of Emiliano Sala (Oct. 31, 90) and they talked about the activation of their Yod.

The truth is a good natal chart, the only hard aspects are with jupiter, a benefic planet. But even so, more fire is needed.

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Yes I agree, it does seem like a good chart to me in my experience! My chiron/node are on the cusp of my 5th house.

Yods are two inconjuncts, which is essentially tension/need for mediation between the two planets, and then the strengthening sextile that gives them purpose. Yods are like, arrows of fate or 'fingers of god' some people call them, because they feel PURPOSE driven. The apex planet at the point is usually the one that enables the purpose, and anything opposite the apex fuels it (if anything natal, or by transit).

So for example, one of my yod apex planets is Mars- in the 3rd house (on the cusp of it, so it feels kind of 2nd house too), and is kept in motion by Sun/Venus sextile to Neptune. The way I communicate feels very fated to me- either I say something that I feel has meaning, or I don't feel adequately capable of commenting at all.

The other yod apex is Neptune in the 10th house, with Jupiter and Mars sextile to boost it. How I express myself (Mars in 3 and Jupiter in 5) in my friendships and between peers, how I feel creative and what I create/give to the world feels heavily influenced on my presence in the world. Neptune in the 10th has to do with how I present myself to the world, and I often want to come across as ... I guess inspiring in some way? Neptune is a hard one to point out.

posted May 11, 2019 01:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
it's not always physical abuse, but there's always a level of trauma bonding and dumping **** on each other

curious though is it the guy you argue with a lot that you're close to?

being real my fiancee is plutonic by nature (scorpio venus conjunct pluto, pluto trine her mars-jupiter conjunction in pisces, and her mercury is scorpio) and our synastry has pluto in it too so does our composite

my pluto is conjunct her venus/pluto and that same conjunction is sextile my mars/neptune and we've had a lot of extreme ups and downs without physical **** but lots of self destructive **** that we've engaged in together and so on

we also have pluto conjunct venus in our composite (we also have venus conjunct sun but sun and pluto are too far away from each other for an aspect)

i think in our case it's helped us both over the longterm get through things and we've come away from a lot of things for the better, but it's not the easiest **** in the world to deal with and requires a lot on both our parts to work through **** because we both had bad childhoods and then went through a lot together as well

it's not necessarily an abuse thing, but you'll see each other's worst and best with pluto and it's all going to be raw and open

i'm thinking maybe the easy aspect and her having it natal make a difference because it definitely plays out differently between her and i than it has between me and my family where it's a lot of hard pluto aspects

in your case with him the trine might make it more helpful rather than harmful because when it's a harder synastry there's a difference and that's where you'll see a lot of abuse play out (like my synastry with my family)

edit: also since 8th house was mentioned depending on system either my venus or sun falls into her 8th (usually if venus is in her 8th in a system my sun is in her 7th if my sun is in her 8th venus will be in her 9th) in placidus it's my venus in her 8th, sun and mercury in her 7th

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posted May 11, 2019 09:21 AM            

I have a full 8th house and such is a relevsnt theme in my life. What it means to be more intimate with someone. The responsibility that comes with it.

8th house is also opposed to 2nd, the house of values. Not just the physical vslues but personal values. What’s important to you. 8th house is what’s important to others.
As we open up we learn of other people’s values.

As we learn from and are influenced by others, when others die part of them lives in us. That is inheritance.

8th house theme relationship can also relate to joined resources and values, physical or spychological.

posted May 11, 2019 09:37 AM            

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posted May 11, 2019 09:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Nessus is a huge factor in this, prolly as much or more than Pluto. Also, people with Pluto in the 4th, likely, had violence in the childhood so it is a factor later.

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posted May 11, 2019 09:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by AriesLilith:
The 8th house is the house after the house of relationships and partner. It’s often described as the house of sex but what is overlooked is how after we form a relationship with someone, we bond deeper and our baggage surfaces. We become vulnerable to each other, and by that we hand out and at the same time gain power over each other. The more intimate, the more we know about each other and can use it to do good or to control.

I have a full 8th house and such is a relevsnt theme in my life. What it means to be more intimate with someone. The responsibility that comes with it.

8th house is also opposed to 2nd, the house of values. Not just the physical vslues but personal values. What’s important to you. 8th house is what’s important to others.
As we open up we learn of other people’s values.

As we learn from and are influenced by others, when others die part of them lives in us. That is inheritance.

8th house theme relationship can also relate to joined resources and values, physical or spychological.

I don’t think 8th house or Pluto by itself is negative. It depends on the whole chart dynamic to see the manifestation. In any cases, it can be related to the deeper intimacy and the consequences of it. To mature people it probably shows lessons and deeper bond achieved, to abusive it can show how the unconscious dynamics clashes and affects deeply.

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posted May 11, 2019 09:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ChildofVenus:

Yes it’s with the person I’m close to and yes there are harsh Pluto aspects involved. We have a lot of 4th house overlays that has a lot to do with the closeness. Even though we argue it hurts when we don’t talk. It’s just really hard even with all the arguing I still love them. Because they are like family to me. I know people have said it’ll never work but I love them too much to walk away. It’s hard to explain because I feel closer to this person than I do my own family. And it’s like no matter who else that I talk to. It never replaces the feelings that I have for them. Even if I do like someone else I still don’t want to lose them. I just don’t ever want to lose them no matter what.

I hate when people say it’s just the Pluto aspects. It’s more than that I know what I feel and it’s not always Pluto. I love being there and helping them. Doing things like washing their clothes, cooking for them, wanting them to live with me etc that’s not Pluto that’s love. And I don’t mean romantic love I just mean in general.

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well not getting along with someone has little to do with love in some cases, or with the other ways you can be there for a person and vice versa

love and closeness are complex, and it makes no sense ultimately to simplify them into some ideal or define them in an objective manner that people often do because they're very subjective and dependent on the experience of the individuals involved

posted May 12, 2019 02:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by AriesLilith:
The 8th house is the house after the house of relationships and partner. It’s often described as the house of sex but what is overlooked is how after we form a relationship with someone, we bond deeper and our baggage surfaces. We become vulnerable to each other, and by that we hand out and at the same time gain power over each other. The more intimate, the more we know about each other and can use it to do good or to control.

I have a full 8th house and such is a relevsnt theme in my life. What it means to be more intimate with someone. The responsibility that comes with it.

8th house is also opposed to 2nd, the house of values. Not just the physical vslues but personal values. What’s important to you. 8th house is what’s important to others.
As we open up we learn of other people’s values.

As we learn from and are influenced by others, when others die part of them lives in us. That is inheritance.

8th house theme relationship can also relate to joined resources and values, physical or spychological.

I don’t think 8th house or Pluto by itself is negative. It depends on the whole chart dynamic to see the manifestation. In any cases, it can be related to the deeper intimacy and the consequences of it. To mature people it probably shows lessons and deeper bond achieved, to abusive it can show how the unconscious dynamics clashes and affects deeply.

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8th house and pluto is our shadow side so yes inevitably the negative manifestation of it will become apparent at least periodically in any heavily plutonic relationship to some extent. I think not acknowledging this is been naive about the nature of pluto.

Whether is obsession, ongoing anxiety, fear of loss and attachment issues, jealousy or just the attack/attack mode that is common in relationships or other types of toxic interpersonal dynamics like shutting down and punishing our partner for long periods of time with silence and indifference, or power struggles were one is obssessed with been in control or the master in the relationship (power imbalance) or at its darkest manifestation just psychological, verbal, emotional or physical abuse. It will show up if you have a plutonic composite to some extent or in some dark phases that the life of your relationship will go through. Pluto is the god of the underworld, there is nothing light about this energy, it's not roses and unicorns.

posted May 12, 2019 02:57 PM            

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posted May 12, 2019 03:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Pluto conj the IC of one person indicates a violent home and this could predispose someone to a violent relationship later.

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If you read my comments throughout the thread I am not talking about plutonic people at all, nor about physical abuse only, I am talking about a wide range of behaviors of how our shadow side shows up in relationships, I am talking about plutonic relationships.

posted May 13, 2019 07:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by implosions:
Yes I agree, it does seem like a good chart to me in my experience! My chiron/node are on the cusp of my 5th house.

Yods are two inconjuncts, which is essentially tension/need for mediation between the two planets, and then the strengthening sextile that gives them purpose. Yods are like, arrows of fate or 'fingers of god' some people call them, because they feel PURPOSE driven. The apex planet at the point is usually the one that enables the purpose, and anything opposite the apex fuels it (if anything natal, or by transit).

So for example, one of my yod apex planets is Mars- in the 3rd house (on the cusp of it, so it feels kind of 2nd house too), and is kept in motion by Sun/Venus sextile to Neptune. The way I communicate feels very fated to me- either I say something that I feel has meaning, or I don't feel adequately capable of commenting at all.

The other yod apex is Neptune in the 10th house, with Jupiter and Mars sextile to boost it. How I express myself (Mars in 3 and Jupiter in 5) in my friendships and between peers, how I feel creative and what I create/give to the world feels heavily influenced on my presence in the world. Neptune in the 10th has to do with how I present myself to the world, and I often want to come across as ... I guess inspiring in some way? Neptune is a hard one to point out.

Yods are just tight aspects giving drive and purpose to whatever is involved there. It can take up a HUGE amount of our lives, especially depending on if inner planets are involved.

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posted May 15, 2019 03:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Franco:
thanks you so much implosions!
You have been helpful to me

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posted May 15, 2019 03:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
it's not always physical abuse, but there's always a level of trauma bonding and dumping **** on each other

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Yes! Thank you. Some of the trauma is from dumping **** on each other usually triggered by times of high stress that trigger unresolved past trauma but because pluto is so binding somehow these relationships ride out these dark storms, repair and get back on track and over time have less and less incidents of that nature if you are firm and hold each other accountable until they become more rare and isolated OR they don't forgive each other and resentment builds up over time with each incident and they grow apart bc the resentment is stronger than the binding effect of pluto in this cases. It plays out one of those two ways I feel with plutonic relationships. Sometimes resentment wins but the binding effect continues on for many years, this is when relationship ends but you still feel deeply connected for many years after (e.g. rare but happens).

posted May 15, 2019 04:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Yes! Thank you. Some of the trauma is from dumping **** on each other usually triggered by times of high stress that trigger unresolved past trauma but because pluto is so binding somehow these relationships ride out these dark storms, repair and get back on track and over time have less and less incidents of that nature if you are firm and hold each other accountable until they become more rare and isolated OR they don't forgive each other and resentment builds up over time with each incident and they grow apart bc the resentment is stronger than the binding effect of pluto in this cases. It plays out one of those two ways I feel with plutonic relationships. Sometimes resentment wins but the binding effect continues on for many years, this is when relationship ends but you still feel deeply connected for many years after (e.g. rare but happens).

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posted October 31, 2021 03:59 PM            

My longest relationship was with a Scorpio (Sun, Mercury, Mars in Scorpio, only the Sun is conjunct Pluto, but his Venus in Capricorn is conjunct Saturn/Uranus). Both Leo ASC, our composite doesn't have any Pluto, but an opposition to Uranus, which helped us a lot to not have a difficult relationship, even thou the plutonic things in synastry were present, but in the end, the composite was lacking 8th house, Pluto, or Scorpio. We have Moon/Venus in the 11th house, so our DC in Aquarius was really evident in how we dealt in relationships. Still, we felt the synastry, but our relationship wasn't about our traumas.

Now, after we separated, we both entered into a plutonic relationship (I guess this is because we both have Leo ASC and transiting Pluto was conjunct the 7th house ruler Uranus). He has with his now wife Sun/Venus conjunct in Taurus opposite Pluto. I honestly can say that I don't know how he stays there, but he is plutonian. I was dating a guy for 3 months (composite Sun/Mercury/Mars in Scorpio conjunct Pluto, this is Davison, in midpoint Mercury,Venus,Mars conjunct in Taurus opposite Pluto, synastry was only the usual Moon opposite Pluto that I have in the natal chart) and I was intimate with him 2 times, just 2 times it was needed and completely sent me to a period of 6 years of thinking that he was the only and only one, but he was nothing to me but someone that didn't really care about me. I can honestly say that it was the first time that I really felt hatred inside me. He played with my mind like we were playing poker. I was out of myself meanwhile I was dating him. I didn't consider anything, I disregarded my bf, I was dating this guy that I didn't even know, I even talked with my ex bf while I was with this guy in the car and my bf (which we were separated and on rocky terms because of something that he did a while back) was behind us, I was so attracted to this guy that I didn't even care that I looked like I was having an affair, I followed him around, I lied him about what I wanted from him, I was at his door to make him to talk with me, he blocked me and even changed his number, I was OUT OF MY MIND FOR REAL. And it took me 6 years in which I thought that the guy with which I stayed for 7 years was nothing to me and this guy was everything. Sooo wrong. The intensity that someone feels when he/she goes into a plutonic relationship is only the bait. You think its something wonderful there, something that is really true, you think you find the love, real love, but it's a lie.

Everytime I feel such intensity, I back away now. There's nothing true about it.

And there are tons of articles and videos online that describe them as power struggles, lies, manipulation, but they don't say "be careful.... you might kill each other" or "you will end up hating each other" because that's what it gets to in the end, no matter what someone says that they had it good in the end. that's a huge lie they tell themselves to think that they had a great relationship. No, we destroyed each other. It got really bad, but I can't say it here.

I never hated my ex bf when I saw that he is with someone else. We still have respect for each other even if we separated.

But with that guy, I could never speak to him again or even be friends with. That's not love. I hated him at that time, for real, I felt hate inside me. And I wanted only the worst for him, which is very unusual for me.

posted November 02, 2021 05:28 PM            

It's like whatever good I did for her, it got buried with her just asking for more and constantly trying to get a rise out of me. At times, I think she even took pleasure in seeing me miserable. I was frustrated for a while and it did drive me into depression sometimes. Come to find her Pluto conjuncts my Mars as well as squaring my moon and Venus, it was at a tight orb.

posted November 02, 2021 06:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by plutonianmenace:
Been in a Plutonian relationship for over a year and whoa boy was it a doozy. I was basically put in a situation where I had to prove myself, constantly taken for granted, had my privacy and a lot of my personal time invaded, and she even spread rumors about me to turn others against me. Somehow, I stayed with it because well, she had some things I needed related to my own growth and paycheck. It was painful and I was trying to come to terms with how some people can be so cruel, heartless, and just use and abuse others.

It's like whatever good I did for her, it got buried with her just asking for more and constantly trying to get a rise out of me. At times, I think she even took pleasure in seeing me miserable. I was frustrated for a while and it did drive me into depression sometimes. Come to find her Pluto conjuncts my Mars as well as squaring my moon and Venus, it was at a tight orb.

Overtime, I found that my happiness came from detaching from her. I got closer to my hobbies, set strict hours in my day when I would not be near here, and started to fall for thing that kept my mind interested that did not involve her one bit. Many months later, I feel so free. I feel like no matter what she does to me, it just slips right off. She is still up to her mind games but whatever, you can never change some people.

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Thanks for sharing your experience, wow that was definitely a plutonic relationship indeed with PLUTO aspect mars, venus and moon.

Love how you were able to get untangled from it and detach and ground yourself in your values and interests.

I indeed have very mixed feelings about plutonic relationships, the lows are just as bad as the highs, brings out insecurities, unresolved issues and obsessiveness but the attraction is very strong too as well as the pull to get lost in the other but there in also lies the problem, its definitely a mix bag.

posted November 02, 2021 07:24 PM            

Astrology only appears to be deterministic for those who who can't / won't change, who are not living an empowered life of self-awareness. Having Pluto signatures in synastry, composite, etc, does not accurately predict violence or abuse.

Plutonic relationships can be transformative in a positive way. So long as we are focused on the negative, we won't see it.

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The Declinations Guy | Expert Birth Chart Rectification

posted November 02, 2021 08:15 PM              

Ok, I'm being a bit deliberately misleading and clickbaity, though accurate in words. The woman is my friend, only platonic and a pretty positive connection/relationship. She had a birthday recently. I had gotten her a nice print of a painting that was done by a local artist, which I saw at a witchy type event a little while back. It called to me in relation to her (dealt with stargazing, Oneness, the Moon, the feminine, the integration of the masculine and feminine, etc). Framed it and gave it to her for her birthday gift at her party.

Apparently my intuition was spot on, because it deeply moved/touched her, and she cried. She's an artist and musician, and a sensitive, loving, older Soul. Jupiter is her strongest Planet (followed by Uranus), and it is rising in her chart.

Like Kannon mentioned, Plutonic type connections don't have to be super negative nor super intense. Her and I did have a couple brief rough patches, and I once briefly ex communicated her (very unusual for me, but it was the height of the pandemic and I had a lot of stuff going on otherwise and kind of was going through a mini breakdown at the time and was really over sensitive. It was when T. Pluto and Saturn were conjunct my Sun--chart/Asc ruler).

It's funny, but she once deliberately and definitely kept me at a distance when we first met (which hurt, as I quickly recognized her as an old friend and co-worker in the Light). Now she counts me as one of her closest and dearest friends, especially male wise. If she wasn't so close to my partner, perhaps things might become more romantic and sexual, as besides the above, she also has her Venus in my 5th, closely square my Mars, (and I could see myself being in love with her holistically) but it's not meant to be in this life, and that's ok.

posted November 02, 2021 09:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
My wife's Mars is opposite my Asc & Pluto. There is no violence or abuse in our relationship. Irritation at times, yes, but not abuse.

Astrology only appears to be deterministic for those who who can't / won't change, who are not living an empowered life of self-awareness. Having Pluto signatures in synastry, composite, etc, does not accurately predict violence or abuse.

Plutonic relationships can be transformative in a positive way. So long as we are focused on the negative, we won't see it.

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