posted October 06, 2019 03:14 PM            

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Originally posted by teasel:
Except that people all over the world are standing up for themselves, and their fellow citizens. They're doing what they can, with what they have (their voices being one).

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Dang right, and thank Source.

Most of the messages I have received about the probable future have been ultimately very positive in the long term sense. I've been shown, time and time again, a very collectively challenging/intense period of collapse and restructuring, but after that, people coming to together in a more collectively positive way, and rebuilding a world truly worth living in.

However, one time I was shown a possible future. This was a sort of lucid, intensely vivid and real feeling dream (so much so, that at first I thought I was awake and focused in the physical level), but a knowing told me very clearly, "No, this is a possible future if humanity allows itself to continue to be overly influenced by both inner and (especially) outer dark forces (which btw, includes a collectively very negative, psychopathic ET group, but that's a long, complicated account).

Anyways, I cannot even being to describe how bad it was in this possible future. It was hell on earth. Take the Dark ages and put it on a combo cocktail of meth, crack, and testosterone and you might get an inkling.

There was immense collective human suffering. This world had become a lost cause, and the helpers had no choice but to abandon it. When I awoke from this dream, I was shaken to my core.

Just as an individual Soul can reach total consciousnesses entropy, so can worlds, and it has happened before, and Guidance is doing everything in it's power to prevent that happening here, including sending in some of it's best and brightest helpers that don't normally incarnate in elementary level schools like this.

This is why we helpers need to step up our game and get ourselves as intune as possible. The more who do so, the easier it becomes for all, for we are so much more interconnected than most realize.

posted October 06, 2019 03:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
"Cayce's guidance indicated that a Soul could, by constant misuse of it's freewill within both the Earth and outside of same (in the nonphysical), come to such a point of consciousness de-evolution/stagnation/retrogression, and such a lack of connection to Love and Source, that it could destroy itself and experience a true and permanent Soul death."

Fascinating. Thanks for taking the time to post this thread.

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You're very welcome Hypatia238.

posted October 06, 2019 03:52 PM            

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Originally posted by sis:
I have not read the whole tread but I would like to make a contribution ( if its a repeat I apologise )

I am a Capricorn ( sun. ascendant. mercury, venus ) and Saturn is opposing all of them.

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Hi Sis. This is your Capricorn Sun and Mercury brother here. The above, believe it or not, does not necessarily make you a predominant Saturnian. If anything, it shows rather more so that you attract strongly Saturnian people in your life.

Just as being a Capricorn Sun and Mercury, with Moon conjunct Saturn doesn't make me a predominant Saturnian. I was more attuned to Saturn during a certain period of childhood though, from about age 7 to 12 though.

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I have been experiencing transit Saturn conjunct all of the above. Waiting for Saturn on my Venus to end.

I have found these conunctions to be very self empowering. I have found a lot of strength in these conjuctions. I love and respect myself more.

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Glad to hear this. Sounds like you are an older Soul, practiced at turning stumbling blocks into stepping stones. These kinds of difficult periods/cycles are meant to make us spiritually stronger, more balanced and pure ultimately.

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I have never been selfish. I am famous for being sacrificial. I always doubt, judge and blame myself. Nothing I do is ever enough.

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Again, you are not necessarily a true Saturnian. I suspect rather that you tend to attract same, especially males and partners, and probably have had some very painful run ins with some very empathy lacking guys.

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It has been 6 years since I live at my parents, taking care of my mother suffering alzheimers and father who survived cancer. And to a person whose Uranus conjunct MC, Mars in sag, being the caregiver and being locked up in a house is hell but I am coping. Because I believe it is my responsibility and if I do otherwise my quilty concious will kill me.

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All hallmarks of an older Soul. Thank you for coming to this world to help in the retrieval efforts here.

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The money thing; Money is not a priority in my life. I have never made choices based on it. But I need to feel secure and without money I cant. When my loved ones are sick, if I dont have the money to provide them the best medication, it hurts so badly, it eats me up.

Even when I am broke, people come to me when they are in need. They know that even I dont have it, I will find it and share it with them. If I fail to provide, it hurts so badly.

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Again, traits and hallmarks of an older Soul.

My Mother was born under Capricorn Sun and Mercury (we actually had the same birthday), with Cancer Moon, Jupiter, and Uranus opposed same, but more importantly, with late Scorpio Rising with early Sag Venus in her 1st, and her traditional, faster moving chart ruler, Mars, in Pisces. She was much like what you sound like/are describing about yourself. She had a lot of empathy and love for others and in an unusually universal way. A rather old Soul. It's too bad that she allowed herself to be tricked by a psychopath (my step father, who shows up in my chart via my Sun square Pluto, etc).

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If I am sounding like a saint, pardon me. I am not. If I reallise, I am being abused, you will have my cold Saturn shoulder, and I wont be kind.

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This is well. It's not loving or helpful to be a doormat. Also a good idea for highly empathic women to be wary of getting involved with narcissistic and/or psychopathic type men, as they are drawn to you like hornets are to honey.

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My best friend has Saturn in the 1st house. Conjuncting her ascendant and mercury. She is an angel. Everybody loves her. And she is such a giver. She gives, gives and gives... And she is very protective of her people.

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Some relative points:

If Mercury is closer to her Ascendant and/or has other strength/highlighting in other areas, then she is a Mercurian, rather than a Saturnian in the predominant sense. Mercury is a faster vibratory symbol than Saturn, and most often shows up in people's auras as a yellow color of some sort (sometimes more tan as in the case of those with powerful Virgo, or very strong Mercury with very strong Earth simultaneously).

2nd, we have freewill, and can change any and all internal, personality/character oriented patterns for the better OR worse from what the chart indicates.

3. One case/example does not data equal.

4. A very strong/highlighted Sun, Jupiter, Neptune, and/or Venus (especially if more than one of these) can help to offset the darker tendencies of those with very strong Saturn.

5. Edgar Cayce's guidance outlined a number of times that not everyone has as accurate chart as they think they do because of a potential difference between the "spiritual" and physical birth times. It's quite possible that your friend's Soul actually completed the energetic connections to the infant's bodies hours before or hours after the physical birth.

Or in other words, it's possible for her to have a very different attunement to very different symbols.

If she truly has both Saturn and Mercury involved with a conjunction of her Ascendant, then her physical type would be very skinny and very slender, unusually so. Saturn also often indicates a darkening of the hair, eyes, complexion relative to her family background and ethnicity. For example, I have a cousin with Saturn conjunct his Ascendant (not the only thing though). He is one of the darkest of us, while most of us and his father are far more Celtic looking.

posted October 06, 2019 04:37 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
The Grass is greener on the other side is more a Saggi meets Pisces hybrid type of issue. Capricorn is as realistic as they come and have very grounded expectations unless they have venus in pisces or saggi stuff lol.

I get original post is making a distinction between saturn and capricorn but am skeptical of this perspective of Saturn. In my experience saturn transits trigger depression and when we get depressed we feel numb, empty and a void which may bring out our "selfish" side and a case of the "**** its" as we try to fill that void in a misguided way bc we feel sad and lost. It's hard to be at your best when you feel numb.

Saturn transits feel to me like something you have to let pass and endure and practice patience and self compassion to get through it. I feel Uranus and pluto transits are more insightful and lead to internal transformation and positive changes.

There could be truth to the observation that Capricorn and Saturn manifests differently but our views may be different on how this difference manifests.

Then there is Capricorn and Aquarius which I feel are two very different sides of the same coin with saturn upholding the status quo and holding people accountable for their actions, in charge of maintaining order. Then Uranus is in charge of causing chaos when the order that saturn is trying to maintain needs to be Challenged and changes need to happen to establish a new order, order comes from chaos. These two work beautifully together but have different roles.

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Again, people seem to be missing the essential core distinction between Saturn as the universal archetype and symbol that is found in and applies to every person's chart vs that small percentage of people are that particularly and predominantly attuned to Saturn (and which is different from both Capricorn and Aquarius, which are Signs).

But speaking from experience as someone without a particularly strong Saturn (end of my 2nd House and not strongly aspected to Angles nor Angle rulers, etc), when T. Saturn was conjuncting my Ascendant and going through my 1st, I did indeed become more Saturnian at that time, and if I am to be honest with self, I was a bit of a jerk during that cycle. My heart was more closed, I was more selfish and generally much slower vibratory than usual. It also didn't help that T. Pluto was also squaring my N. Saturn and Moon around this time. And when T. Mars got involved in going through my 1st with Saturn, my sex drive and focus went through the roof. Boy those first 3 centers were getting quite activated.

In other words, I was phasing into my slower vibratory glands/centers.

I was also under some serious psychic attack from some seriously negative and collective outside forces during this cycle. I got involved with a particular "spiritual" book/teaching/course that was a wolf in sheep's clothing, and which had negative subconscious programming effects, and this allowed a sort of "psychic crack" to occur that was allowing these outer energies to influence more than they could otherwise.

This cycle was quite a contrast with my usual self.

In hindsight, though it was a very testing period, it was also very enlightening and purifying.

That's the positive side of Saturn's meaning as a symbol. There is a usually a deeper and pre planned reason of why we go through these difficult and testing cycles.

But anyways, having deeply studied the Cayce work, and having studied astrology for some 26 years now, I have seen the truth of what Cayce's guidance was outlining time and time again.

Just try to keep in mind that there is a big difference between that relatively small percentage of population that is predominantly attuned to Saturn the Planet, vs all the rest of us that experience Saturn in a more outer, universal way and sense.

I've done the charts of a number of psychopaths, and when the chart seems and feels accurate holistically, Saturn always shows up as 1. extremely strong (often predominant), 2. often stressed (and often involving Fixed Sign squares), and 3 lacking highlighting of the faster vibratory symbols--especially Sun, Jupiter, and Neptune but often emphasis also on Mars and/or Pluto.

It's important to note, this only applies to those in the ASPD spectrum that were born this way, and who didn't have some kind of unusual and extreme head trauma. That's a very different thing. Not a whole lot that one can do about that even considering freewill.

posted October 06, 2019 06:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sis:

I always doubt, judge and blame myself. Nothing I do is ever enough.

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quote:

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It has been 6 years since I live at my parents, taking care of my mother suffering alzheimers and father who survived cancer. And to a person whose Uranus conjunct MC, Mars in sag, being the caregiver and being locked up in a house is hell but I am coping. Because I believe it is my responsibility and if I do otherwise my quilty concious will kill me.

The money thing; Money is not a priority in my life. I have never made choices based on it. But I need to feel secure and without money I cant. When my loved ones are sick, if I dont have the money to provide them the best medication, it hurts so badly, it eats me up.

Even when I am broke, people come to me when they are in need. They know that even I dont have it, I will find it and share it with them. If I fail to provide, it hurts so badly.

If I am sounding like a saint, pardon me. I am not. If I reallise, I am being abused, you will have my cold Saturn shoulder, and I wont be kind.

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Are you sure you're not my twin or something? I've dropped people from my life as if they'd never existed after being abused. LOL. I'm going through something similar--except it's a power struggle in my case. I started out by helping my mother out (I would never be able to live with the guilt if I ignored her) and lately it just keeps turning into a power struggle; it's getting to the point where nothing makes sense anymore and I'm losing myself.

It was when I stopped recognizing the person in the mirror every morning that I realized it's time to change. I'm now battling for my life back--been actively looking into opportunities that will get me out of here and moving on with my life. (I do have an Aries NN on top of it all!)

posted October 06, 2019 07:44 PM            

My Capricorn friend who passed away June 23 reminds me of such a case. I wanted to bring him up to you bc I wonder if his soul agreed to pass away at 28 years to prevent soul death from happening. I have this feeling that his early death was a survival decision, to save his soul. Here is his chart with transits of the day he died. Feel free to comment:

posted October 06, 2019 08:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I understand what you are saying, when saturn overfunctions in a chart and it doesnt have other planets neutralizing, balancing out or that are working together with saturn to help it manifest in a more positive way, the shadow side of saturn takes over. For example, Saturn is cautious by nature so if Saturn is predominant and overfunctioning and perhaps isolated from generational planets it will guard itself too much and not be able to connect with others so can result in a sociopathic personality that operates perhaps purely from a survival instinct. This person learned early on they have to take care of themselves or nobody else will so being selfish for a long time was an adaptive trait and it may become hard to outgrow this bc is how they managed to survive for so long.

My Capricorn friend who passed away June 23 reminds me of such a case. I wanted to bring him up to you bc I wonder if his soul agreed to pass away at 28 years to prevent soul death from happening. I have this feeling that his early death was a survival decision, to save his soul. Here is his chart with transits of the day he died. Feel free to comment:

[img]https://i.ibb.co/2WXb3QY/astro-2gw-matt-74796-86164.png[/img]

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Hope you don't mind me pointing out a few things that jump out:

- transit Mars is conjunct transit Mercury, conjunct SN and Chiron. All are opposite natal Saturn, Sun, and NN
-Natal Sun and Saturn conjunctions tend to give depression
-Transit Pluto is sitting on top of Natal Saturn
-Transit Neptune sextiles Natal Moon
-Grand Water Trine with:
*Natal Pluto trine transit Neptune
*Transit Mercury and Mars conjunct Natal Chiron and South Node; all four trine with transit Neptune and Natal Pluto

Here's a thread on Lindaland about suicide cases:[url] http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/227486.html[/url]

posted October 06, 2019 09:10 PM            

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Nope. He was a Uranian, who had an odd, extreme mix of very fast vibratory, very Light attuned dynamics and very slow vibratory dynamics within him. They were not blended to come to a Venusian medium/mean, but stood as stark, opposing contrasts that ever warred within and vied for control of his Soul. Sound dramatic, and intense? Well, it was for him.

One of the latter selve's memories/energetics that went into make up his Soul was a Saturnian.

Tis NOT that complicated.

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Saturn conjuncting Mercury and Venus
Plus Saturn as dispositor of Mars and Jupiter
Plus it conjuncting North Node

My analysis says thats a strong Saturn.

Dramatic and intense, sounds like someone with 4 planets in 8th house along with the Node in it. Uranus can bring the drama alright, along with him standing out thats for sure.

Uranus is almost Singleton with it in conjunction and aspecting only angles, and a square to Pluto.

Saturn in 8th house, planet of Death alright.

Pluto conjuncts MC, whats the dispositor of MC, Venus, what does it conjunct? Hehhe.

posted October 06, 2019 09:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Idk how he died, wasn't necessarily suicide but I don't know for sure. It could have been work accident or health complications, he worked like 80 hours weekly the entire year I knew him, that will take a toll on your health and mind and increase likelihood of unexpected health problems or accidents.

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posted October 06, 2019 09:41 PM            

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But speaking from experience as someone without a particularly strong Saturn (end of my 2nd House and not strongly aspected to Angles nor Angle rulers, etc), when T. Saturn was conjuncting my Ascendant and going through my 1st, I did indeed become more Saturnian at that time, and if I am to be honest with self, I was a bit of a jerk during that cycle. My heart was more closed, I was more selfish and generally much slower vibratory than usual. It also didn't help that T. Pluto was also squaring my N. Saturn and Moon around this time. And when T. Mars got involved in going through my 1st with Saturn, my sex drive and focus went through the roof. Boy those first 3 centers were getting quite activated.

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posted October 06, 2019 09:49 PM            

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
As one moves up, the bottom 3 does tend to look bit "fugly", but if the energy is suppressed because they look "fugly", then we will have an airplane which doesn't know how to land. Its better to f*ck when you want, be an egomaniac when its necessary, and be spiritual when you're tired of all of it, than just be spiritual, in my experience it creates imbalance, which seems to happen to monks.

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posted October 06, 2019 10:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ithinkimightbewrong:
i dont think ill ever be able to learn my lesson...i think my soul will die this time

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posted October 06, 2019 10:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
Saturn conjuncting Mercury and Venus
Plus Saturn as dispositor of Mars and Jupiter
Plus it conjuncting North Node

My analysis says thats a strong Saturn.

Dramatic and intense, sounds like someone with 4 planets in 8th house along with the Node in it. Uranus can bring the drama alright, along with him standing out thats for sure.

Uranus is almost Singleton with it in conjunction and aspecting only angles, and a square to Pluto.

Saturn in 8th house, planet of Death alright.

Pluto conjuncts MC, whats the dispositor of MC, Venus, what does it conjunct? Hehhe.

Edit : Ahhh turns out the stellium is actually in 7th, now that changes things..Hehh.

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Uranus was conjunct his Ascendant. There is no more amplifying condition in astrology than a Planet conjunct the Ascendant.

There are multiple Life Readings that point out he was predominantly Uranian.

You certainly can believe what you want to believe, but methinks you don't really care either way, but are trying to get a rise more so.

posted October 06, 2019 10:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I understand what you are saying, when saturn overfunctions in a chart and it doesnt have other planets neutralizing, balancing out or that are working together with saturn to help it manifest in a more positive way, the shadow side of saturn takes over. For example, Saturn is cautious by nature so if Saturn is predominant and overfunctioning and perhaps isolated from generational planets it will guard itself too much and not be able to connect with others so can result in a sociopathic personality that operates perhaps purely from a survival instinct. This person learned early on they have to take care of themselves or nobody else will so being selfish for a long time was an adaptive trait and it may become hard to outgrow this bc is how they managed to survive for so long.

My Capricorn friend who passed away June 23 reminds me of such a case. I wanted to bring him up to you bc I wonder if his soul agreed to pass away at 28 years to prevent soul death from happening. I have this feeling that his early death was a survival decision, to save his soul. Here is his chart with transits of the day he died. Feel free to comment:

[img]https://i.ibb.co/2WXb3QY/astro-2gw-matt-74796-86164.png[/img]

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Yes, more or less this what I'm saying. Ultimately, at it's core, it's about a growing lack of self love and acceptance that leads to an ever greater desire to protect oneself from others. Eventually that turns into a very separative belief system and mindset of self vs others/the world.

One starts to believe in and only see disconnection and separation, rather than the true connectedness that is always there.

It's an over amplification of what some call the ego (the non psychology, non technical definition).

The ego is not all negative/destructive, it's part of the body package of self protection while we are focused in this world. One to keep the body alive. But also there is a deeper purpose. Imagine being a Soul completely open to all the negative energy of this world, no shielding, no dampening whatsoever. Just think of the degree of cacaphonic noise you would be exposed to (Bob Monroe call this the M Band field noise).

If one doesn't have complete inner strength via complete and full attunement to Love, this kind of perceptual capacity could do real damage to this inner, sensitive Soul self.

Souls are a lot more sensitive and aware than bodies. The body comes built in with this ego thang that helps to damp down this awareness. It is a double edged sword, especially if it swings too far either way.

This is why massive amounts of powerful hallucinogens/ethnogens have been known to drive people "crazy", meaning they become imbalanced and fractured to the point of not being able to function well in this world anymore.

Part of it is because some of these substances can "rent the veil" and tear down the ego shielding before the necessary inner strength, purification, and attunement to Love is there.

I generally stay away from that stuff, but oddly felt called to do an Aya analogue awhile back. Did it by myself at my home. Twas a great time. 45 minutes or so of pure joy, pure love. My heart center was blasted completely open. But I had spent years and years of preparation, purification, self and shadow work, etc, and I did not approach it lightly. Had a dream a few days before hand which gave me the go ahead. I went into deep meditation before it took effect.

posted October 06, 2019 11:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
As one moves up, the bottom 3 does tend to look bit "fugly", but if the energy is suppressed because they look "fugly", then we will have an airplane which doesn't know how to land. Its better to f*ck when you want, be an egomaniac when its necessary, and be spiritual when you're tired of all of it, than just be spiritual, in my experience it creates imbalance, which seems to happen to monks.

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There is an important difference between repression/suppression, and conscious redirection and transmutation.

The former leads to many problems, sometimes problems bigger than the things one is trying to get away from.

The latter leads to true freedom.

No one said to cut out the first 3 centers. But neither is it constructive or helpful to over indulge them either. The body has it's rhythms and rules, the Soul has it's rhythms and rules, and the Spirit has it's rhythms and rules, and the wise person learns how to harmonize and balance these.

Having a Libra Moon, I kind of have this thing about balance.

And, as someone with Sun as the chart/Ascendant ruler, in Capricorn closely square Pluto, Scorp IC with Scorp Uranus in the 4th, and Moon conjunct Saturn, I'm well acquainted with the dark side of life, others, and self.

Ain't no monk.

posted October 06, 2019 11:15 PM            

At that point, there is no point in continuing the life, because the Soul in question is just accumulating difficult karma for the Spirit to have to later on redress.

And yes, I get the intuitive sense this is what happened with your friend. His original plan as outlined by his Spirit and guidance, wasn't stuck to because of the wild card factor of freewill and he went too far off the tracks than was fixable. These type of things cannot really be seen in a chart, because they were not planned, though sometimes the possibility is known about ahead of time.

Even very old Souls can get off the tracks in this world. Not usually so much as in becoming truly sociopathic, but most commonly getting lost in substances or other addictions, or suicide.

posted October 06, 2019 11:23 PM            

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Originally posted by Moonbeth:
@GalacticCoreExplosion
Thank you for this thread that's attracting so many brilliant contributions

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You're welcome Moonbeth.

posted October 06, 2019 11:44 PM            

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Originally posted by ithinkimightbewrong:
could i give you my fb to talk...im going through this right now

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Not sure who you are addressing?

posted October 07, 2019 12:16 AM            

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......in addition to Michael Lutin's Saturn Signs?

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