posted August 24, 2021 02:26 AM            

Im so sorry for the late reply! I will just post my chart here for you to see if you're interested!
I would appreciate it too because Ive been having a hard time lately. Feeling a bit hopeless right now at this point

posted August 24, 2021 08:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SoulOfABird:
@PlutoWasHere

Im so sorry for the late reply! I will just post my chart here for you to see if you're interested!
I would appreciate it too because Ive been having a hard time lately. Feeling a bit hopeless right now at this point

also btw does your mom also have 12th house placements?

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No problem! Thank you for posting your chart.
Wow! You have a lot of planets concentrated in your H12 and H1 (with mostly Pisces which is also intercepted). Pisces/Neptune energy is very strong in your chart. In the book of Arroyo he mentions Pisces being a Karmic zodiac sign associated with emotional turmoil and confusion. As it is at the end of the zodiac it is related to the purification of the emotions and mental images that have accumulated over several past lifetimes.

The current transits of Uranus in Taurus (square your Aquarius planets) and Saturn in Aquarius are indicating that there is a lot going on in your life right now. Though even if it's painful, these transits often give you opportunity for growth as well. I do not have a lot of experience in astrology but I will try to give you my view of the H12 placements in your chart (and with the help of Arroyo's book). Maybe some of the more experienced forum members can share their insights as well.

Planets in H12 usually indicate the parts of our personality that we find difficult to express. Because the 12th house rules your subconscious mind, there can be energy in this house that you don’t even realize is there. If I focus on the traditional planets, this would be your Moon (emotions, nurturing, security) and Jupiter (confidence, beliefs, joy). Does it make sense to you that these parts of your personality are more difficult to access/express?

With your strong H12 and Piscean placements you probably have a very compassionate side. Arroyo states that with H12 placements some sort of selfless service and spiritual development will help letting go of past life emotions. A quote from his book: "In short, planets in the water houses reveal that which cannot be found - or easily experienced in a satisfying way - on the surface of life, but can only be fulfilled in the depths of inner realization. Any planet falling in any water house can thus be interpreted as an aspect of the person's nature, as a dimension of liefe experience, which the purson can fulfill only be searching within himself."

It can also help if you look at the sabian symbol associated with the cusp of your H12:

PHASE 296 (CAPRICORN 26°): A NATURE SPIRIT DANCING IN THE IRIDESCENT MIST OF A WATERFALL.
KEYNOTE: The ability to perceive the hidden and creative spirit of natural phenomena.

This hints at nature, intuition and creativity. Does this resonate with you in any way?

There is also something interesting in your H7. It has the sign of Virgo intercepted and a Mars conjunct North Node in important degrees on the cusp of Virgo and Libra. There might be some kind of Karmic lesson with expressing your boundaries in a healthy way within relationships. Right now you might either not express your boundaries enough or be overreactive in expressing your boundaries. Or fluctuate between both. Maybe some of the other forum members can shed some light on that too.

posted August 25, 2021 06:54 AM            

A lot of this makes sense! I definitely feel like one of my paths in life is to learn to be more organized/productive and learn boundaries!

When it comes to my emotions, I feel like that was an area that I felt misunderstood in growing up. I did have difficulty being open about my feelings, and almost embarrassed of them. However, I remember myself being very emotional, and I actually felt not too many people understood that. I was more sensitive than people knew.

I always have been more comfortable letting my emotions out when Im alone. This was most evident as a child. Having my own place to be by myself would be where Id be able to recenter and let all my emotions out. I only held my emotions back when I was in public. When I was alone I didn't hold them back, in fact a lot times Id pity myself lol
Looking back I often cried myself to sleep, and I honestly don't know why really; why I was so emotional especially at night. I would think about everything, my life up til then. I would think about the people and animals that were suffering. But this isn't something about me people knew as a child.
My grandma was the only one that saw my affectionate side, because with everyone else I was withdrawn and very very shy.

Now that Im older I have less trouble showing my emotions, but Ive actually had to force myself. I find myself feeling embarrassed showing my caring side but Ive pushed through it and showed that side of me more. I sometimes have conflicting feelings on it though, because I dont want it to be forced or ingenuine, but I feel more cared and loved for in return so I think that has been a plus. Still though, Im in my comfort zone when Im alone.
It's strange because I feel my emotions more when Im alone. Like for example when Im talking to my psychiatrist I would talk/recall something I was hurt or sad about, but wouldn't really cry or be able to really verbalize how I felt. But when Im alone and I recall them and I do cry and even have an easier time expressing them when Im venting in my head lol

Im sorry, Im relying a lot of my experience on the past, because Ive been kind of out of it for 5 years now since taking antidepressants.

I do have trouble with optimism as well, I call myself a pessimistic optimist lol and I do lack confidence unfortunately.

What I get confused on is the sign relation to my stellium in the 12th house. Since it's in Aquarius how does it affect my 12th house stellium?

I love nature and really wish I was creative! I know astrologers say I probably have psychic abilities, but I cant seem to access them and really wish I could though.

posted August 26, 2021 03:08 PM            

edit: is there someone that you know that can help you get more into touch with your goals and ambitions?

The ruler of your H12 is Saturn. This planet is located in your H1 and is in Aries. Here Saturn does not feel at home because it is a planet that does not like to rush things, Saturn in Aries is in it's fall. However this is an important planet for you as it is opposite your Mars and north node.

Saturn opposite Mars
You are a perfectionist. You can pick at yourself and others unmercifully, trying to get circumstances in your life to match some unspecified standard. The real trick in life for you is to keep moving. This is not easy since you should really only move ahead on a project after forethought or planning; your judgments tend to be colored by your fears or your momentary desires. (source: cafeastrology.com)

Despite your fears of not being good enough you need to move forward. You cannot rush into things, but you need to be patient and make slow progress. It's funny, but I ran into a quote by Confucious today that I think is also appropriate in your situation: “It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop.”

posted August 28, 2021 03:29 PM            

quote:

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I am very curious about the experiences of other people with planets in water houses, how they feel it impacts their personality and if they see any link with (past life) Karma.

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My 4th house is empty, ruled by Libra.

My Aquarius 8th house includes Saturn and Lilith. Saturn squares my Sun (Taurus 11H) and Pluto (Scorpio 5H), sextiles my Mercury/Juno conjunction in Aries 10H. Lilith squares my sun more tightly.

My Gemini 12th house includes my Part of Fortune. However, I have my South Node in Cancer in my 12th and I feel this has been the biggest influence - talk about karma!

posted August 29, 2021 04:24 PM            

South node in H12 and Saturn in H8 look like very karmic placements to me. H12, South node and Cancer could indeed be connected to your mother and alcoholism. My Moon is in H11 in Placidus house system but falls into H12 with whole signs house system. My Neptune is also the apex of a triangle aspect pattern also called "Thor's Hammer" together with my Chiron and Mars/Saturn conjunction.

posted August 29, 2021 04:51 PM            

Though I think when people use the word "karmic" they often mean the more difficult, challenging, and/or shadow oriented patterns i.e. often the ones we really need to focus on for greater Soul growth, integration, and/or balance in this life. Hence, in that sense, the Water related Houses do often feel and seem more intensely "karmic" than other areas.

But perhaps the most directly and overtly karmic point and House of them all is the Ascendant and 1st House.

Let me explain... When a person has a Planet relatively near the Ascendant and/or in the 1st House (and if there are multiple, then the one which is closest, especially towards the 1st House side), then that Planet symbolically represents/correlates to the nonphysical dimension that the Soul entered in direct to Earth from.

And that says A LOT about how a person used their freewill in an other life and/or Expanded self sense. Often times, these symbols in the chart are stronger, and more consistently so, than any other single factor in the chart, even the vaunted Sun Sign or the like.

And one could say that Pluto is very much a "karmic" Planet the earlier mentioned sense. Pluto often represents a Soul who had been retrieved from the lower realms between Saturn (pure ASPD folks) and Mars (NPD folks) dimensions/realms, and who both from themselves and being helped by guides/helpers, moved out of those lower realms and into the more Light attuned and faster vibratory realms.

Often it is these Souls that become powerfully effective retrievers of other Souls who get stuck in these lower realms of intense selfishness and fear. Why, because they know first hand what these folks are going through, having relatively recently been there themselves.

Hence, it is not uncommon for Plutonians when focused in the physical to have an interesting pattern in the life of going from a rather slow vibratory phase and beingness (and/or being immersed in the dark side of life in an outer way), to gradually faster and faster vibratory, more expanded, and more spiritualized (especially if the chart is supported by strong, conscious attunement to symbols like Venus, Neptune, Jupiter, Sun, and/or Arcturus).

In this sense, Pluto is much like kundalini body energy. Kundali is the body electricity which is strongest in the conductive spinal fluid. This body electriciy is a nuetral, but powerful stimulator/amplifier. Normally this body electricity only flows up and out just enough to keep the body healthy, balanced, and alive.

But this energy can also be stimulated to rise up in a more direct sense. However, not recommended to do unless someone gets a nudge from inner guidance to do so. Reason being is that many humans have blocks in the thymus gland area i.e. the 4th Center which corresponds to Venus astrologically ,and which many call the "heart chakra".

If kundalini is stimulated prematurely and there are blocks at this center, then often what happens is that the lower 3 centers that are very slow vibrational and more ego aligned in nature, get over stimulated and hyper active, and thus can narcissistic type personalities get created out of otherwise previously fairly decent and more well adjusted personalities.

posted August 29, 2021 06:20 PM            

I agree with you that our H1 is very Karmic in the sense that this is the energy that we start out with based on our past Karma. But the purpose of this life time should be to evolve. When looking at Vedic Astrology H1 is how we enter our life, we develop through the houses and then in H12 is where we leave this life. So from that persepective, to me, H12 is the most Karmic of all houses.

posted August 29, 2021 08:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PlutoWasHere:

...I am not really familiar with faster or slower vibrations in the birth chart. Every planet in aspect can play out in a negative or a positive way. Mars, Saturn and Pluto are known to be malefic but there is also a positive expression possible even if it is more difficult to achieve. Challenges are important to build character. Having a lot of easy aspects in the birth chart sounds nice but this could still be a pretty nasty person because they have never had any problems in life and lack empathy.

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While its true that every symbol can be used positively or negatively, it's also simultaneously true that some symbols when very highlighted tend more towards the negative and some tend more to the positive, and there are reasons for the latter.

Astrology is very connected to the whole concept of the Chakra System of 7 main Chakras/Centers that correlate to the endocrine glands that produce hormones in the body. The main glands are mainly found roughly near and parallel with the spine.

In turn, that Chakra/glandular system is connected to the concept of "dimensions of this system". This system, physically is represented by our Solar system. The physical is only one little slice of the whole dimensional pie though. That's the 3rd dimension within a system that contains 7 main dimensions, and an 8th dimension which is like a "portal" out of this dimensional system.

Astrology is also connected to the concept of auras and color vibration.

In turn, auras and color vibration is connected to the whole Chakra/glandular system. In conclusion, these are all interconnected and part of each other.

Understanding color and color vibration in relation to auras and to the Clear/White Light is very helpful to all this.

Clear/White Light is a balanced, integrated, merged blend of 6 main colors. These colors all have a specific range of wavelength aka vibratory rate.

Red is the slowest vibratory, and longest wavelength, and violet/magenta is the fastest vibratory and shortest wavelength.

If you read a lot of literature from people who can physically see auras and aura colors around people, you'll see definite repeating patterns, that the colors can be and are directly related to the level of consciousness of the person.

Or we could say, how attuned or not, they are to pure, Divine Love and Source Consciousness (which imo, is all of our origins). Or another way to say that, how positive and constructive they are in relation to others and to creation as a whole. Meaning, these colors are not "neutral" in meaning.

For example, many aura sensitive people have noted that sociopathic type people tend to have a lot of heavy, dark red (and or complete absence of light aka seeming black) in their auras. These people of course are highly selfish, and see themselves as very disconnected from others and from the rest of creation at large. Having such a lack of attunement to Love and to Source Consciousness, is what makes them so selfish and destructive in nature. You could say that vibrationally/consciousness wise, they are further away from the consciousness of pure Love and Source, which the deeper part of us is striving to remember and relive.

As the vibration speeds up/raises, it becomes "closer" (metaphorically) to that level of Source and pure Love consciousness i.e. our true nature and origins. Hence, violet/magenta is much closer to this than red. And yet, that Source/pure Love consciousness is represented and correlated to the very Clear/White Light itself, and so it is also about balance and integration at the same time. (We need a little attunement to red and the like to keep balanced).

Going back to the person who expresses in a selfish and separative way: They can use their freewill to change that. That is changing their chart at the same time.

Often times, someone that is like that in this life (not always, just often), came into this 3rd, physical earth dimension, from one of the slower vibratory dimensions/levels of the nonphysical.

In the Edgar Cayce work, it becomes very clear that this relates to astrology and to Cayce's concept of "astrological sojourns". Meaning, we are attracted to a specific nonphysical dimension based on the concept of Like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like on a consciousness/Soul level.

The nonphysical, unlike the physical, is all ordered/structured based on this physics type Law.

A person's strongest/most predominant Planet, can literally show us what dimension they came into the Earth from. However, freewill can change those patterns. A person could come here to the Earth from the 4th dimension of Venus (faster vibratory than the Earth), but when their body dies, they could be attracted to one of the lower realms that corresponds symbolically and astrologically to say Saturn or Mars.

Conversely, someone could have come in here from one of the lower realms of say Mars (where narcissistic type people often end up), but through right use of their freewill, they could go to Venus after their body dies.

We are constantly shifting up or down the vibrational spectrum of consciousness depending on how we use our freewill. Astrology cannot show us how a person is using their freewill currently, but only how they used it in their past. We come to the physical earth because it is the only dimension wherein we call can mix and interact in a way where we can easily perceive one another. Its like the mixing pot or crucible of the dimensional system.

I realize that a lot of this stuff sounds foreign. Its definitely not part of the mainstream. But if you research Edgar Cayce and his work, you will see that he was the real deal, and there are many reasons to take his info very seriously. With Sun and Mercury widely conjunct in Capricorn, and N.Node, Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn (ruler of the Sun and Merc Signs) in Virgo, and the Sun being the chart ruler widely conjunct Mercury in Cap, I'm someone who tends towards the skeptical and questioning in nature. I'm not going to go into my whole history of why I take that info very seriously, but suffice it to say, that I do, and I'm someone that tests and questions things deeply and constantly.

And I'm not the only one (with trust in that source) by any means. Arroyo was quite influenced by the Cayce work. Our Kannon here also. And plenty of other people here are familiar with and respect that work to some extent, especially older members.

If you are interested in learning more about him and his readings, would suggest that Sidney Kirkpatricks* first biography of Cayce; Edgar Cayce: An American Prophet is probably the most well and thoroughly researched and well written about him, and there have been a number of biographical type books written about that source. In the US Library of Congress, Edgar Cayce in general comes up as one of the most cited modern mentioned human individuals in relation to books written about a topic. There are reasons why, though these latter generations are forgetting it, Cayce and his work powerfully, powerfully influenced both the holistic health movements and the spiritual "new age" type movements.

*I'm personal friends with Sidney, and the interesting thing about Sidney and his own path, is that before he researched Cayce and his psychic work, not only was he a complete skeptic of Cayce but of ALL things spiritual, metaphysical, religious, and psychic. He was a firm materialist who only believed in the physical reality. He was poked, prodded, nudged by a woman he was very attracted to (and later married), to look into Cayce and his work, and finally relented just to shut her up, but he figured that he would debunk Cayce as just another sham.

Quite the opposite happened. He had a painful and confusing belief system crash in researching him. Some of his core beliefs crumbled under the weight of holistic evidence. Now he not only believes in the Cayce work, but he believes in all the above--all the stuff he once mocked and criticized as being foolish, weak minded, conning, delusion, etc.

posted August 30, 2021 10:58 AM            

Some people have very challenging birth charts, like my brother for example. He definitely is stuck in some way, but I find it difficult to see him as someone that is slower vibratory because it feels like putting a lower value to him as a person. Even though he is making poor choices, he still is a human being worthy of love and empathy. He is not a monster but he is stuck in the Hell he has created for himself.

posted August 30, 2021 12:26 PM            

That's one of the reason why I use the first terms the most. They are less loaded with attached cultural value judgement.

But as far as value and judgement goes, why would someone condemn or look down on someone for being a child spiritually (i.e. slower vibratory), when we've all been there, in most cases they will eventually grow up, and we all come from the same Source?

One of my jobs in the nonphysical is to go down into the very slow vibratory levels (the afterlife temporary hells) to try to help individuals move out of there so they don't suffer so much. If I can help them to change some core, distorted beliefs about life, reality, themselves, others, then often that can create enough of an inner change that some Light enters in, and I can help move them out of there. In some of my dream remembrances of doing this work, I've seen self surround them in golden light energy (while feeling Love and compassion for them very deeply and intensely), like a protective bubble of love, so they don't get pulled back to the lower state.

Some of these individuals, when they were alive on earth, did some very destructive and hurtful things to others. Sometimes unspeakable things. But even though, I don't see them as valueless or worthless, but a part of Source and the Oneness. Their suffering matters to and affects me and it affects the Oneness of the Whole. All for One, and One for all is the motto of all helpers/retrievers/guides.

Basically, I love them, no matter what, and see/focus on their true origin and true nature before they got themselves all distorted with false beliefs, perceptions, and livingness.

Do you think I would do this work if I ultimately saw them as valueless or worthless for being temporarily slower vibratory? No, but I do recognize that there is a difference between slow and fast vibratory. It's not all the same exact thing. Energy can be used and expressed creatively and destructively, positively and negatively and that difference is what leads to relatively slower or faster vibration.

As to your brother and his chart, it takes looking at the whole chart to determine these things AND I also subscribe to the Cayce concept that the physical birth time is not always the correct/accurate chart. Cayce's guidance talked about how "around" physical birth, the Soul finished up its energetic connection to that body, and it was that moment of full energetic connection that reflected the true, accurate chart. I was open to this concept when I came across it because my very psychic/intuitive mom told me before I got into that work, that it was awhile after my body was born that she saw a Light descend and enter into the baby's body. And indeed, a bit later of a chart does fit better holistically.

So it's quite possible that your brother's chart is not fully accurate to begin with. Its also possible that if it is, he has used freewill to change some of the more slow vibratory patterns.

And this can go both ways. In Edgar Cayce's own past life readings for himself, they talk about one of his other selves that came to Earth from Venus--a faster vibratory than Earth dimension of a lot of personal love and harmony. The man's name was John Bainbridge in that life--he was an Englishman who emigrated to America during the very early years.

Anyways, due to a combo of life conditions and freewill use, this man very much slowed down his vibratory rates, to the point that he became either like a malignant narcissist or perhaps even a sociopath. He was a hard, and hard living man.

When he died, he apparently went to the nonphysical dimension that correlates to Saturn, because there was a second John Bainbridge which incarnated a hundred years later, and Cayce's guidance said that he entered in from the dimension/consciousness level of Saturn which they often pointed to, related to a Soul going off the path of Love and connection to Source so much, that it ends up destroying itself through a kind of consciousness entropy/chaos process. They often referred to Saturn as, "That to which all insufficient matter is cast for the remolding", long and nice way of saying "Soul death". Souls by nature are eternal, and most do experience eternity.

This whole freewill thing can very much go both ways. Just because a person might have been born with an overall mid to faster vibratory chart, doesn't mean that they are actually living and being that now. Conversely the same for someone born with a slow vibratory chart. The chart is static, the Soul is not. But, we are also creatures of habit and inertia, so often times, charts when accurate, do more or less align to the person.

The problem with astrology and many astrologers is that many seem to think that the astrology somehow actually "causes" a person to be this or that way. No, it is a Jungian synchronicity reflector and indicator, not a direct cause. Our past use of freewill is what actually directly created/caused the chart, which is just a symbolic language of consciousness like a roadmap or cosmic clock outlining that.

Btw, when someone has multiple planets near their Asc, it can be a lot more complex to figure out what is their strongest Planetary attunement. While it can be the one closest, it isn't always by any means.

posted August 30, 2021 01:16 PM            

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Originally posted by PlutoWasHere:
@GCE, thank you for your reply.
Your answer has clarified a few things for me. If you take past lives into account then there probably have been a lot of them and
inevitably there must have been lives that have been slower vibratory. Maybe even with a purpose. Interesting that this is something that even Cayce himself admitted to experiencing.Maybe I was being a bit sensitive with regards to judging, I am a Libra ASC after all.

I am pretty confident that my brother's birth time and ASC are correct. My Sun is conjunct his DSC and my Ceres is conjunct his Vertex. This makes sense to me but of course there are no guarantees.

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Yes, indeed. And funny that you should mention that specific part, because at one point, someone else asked about Cayce's past life patterns, and how it seemed odd that this Expanded self had expressed so many very fast vibratory and service oriented lifetimes, and yet then we have these two super slow vibratory John Bainbridge lifetimes, which seemed..almost out of place.

The answer was interesting, because it indicated that it was somewhat purposeful. Basically they implied that this Soul/Spirit needed to fully know the extremes here, so that it could be a be better retriever of others stuck in their lower energies. See, Cayce's Spirit/Expanded self was one of those that originally came to the physical and to this system to retrieve its increasingly stuck and suffering sibling Spirits.

When you've been through something yourself, it really can help you to help others in those areas. This is why recovering alcoholics or drug addicts often make some of the best, most effective, and powerful counselors for others going through that.

So yes, sometimes it is somewhat purposeful, but many times it is just the double edged nature of freewill. Freewill is like a bit of chaos potential that is allowed within an otherwise orderly, connected, structured, and planned reality. If Source didn't give us freewill, the ability to choose "non Sourceness" to varying degrees, then we would have been nothing but automatons, and Source very much wanted/desired true companions. Lovers that would voluntarily choose companionship with It. (Metaphorically/symbolically speaking) Who wants to merge with/make love to a programmed robot with no real choice or self awareness? There is no comparison to the real thing.

But, as mentioned, freewill being what it is, is very much a double edged sword. Individuals can, and sometimes do, get struck for very long periods of time. That's why a percentage of us do retrieval work, where we go into these slower vibratory levels (very much including Earth!) to try to help nudge the individuals focused there towards more accurate and helpful perceptions and beliefs so that they can get unstuck.

It is the Oneness of the Whole seeking that full, conscious Oneness and healing itself towards same. The faster vibratory parts of the Whole are always helping to lift up the slower vibratory parts, and when the slower vibratory parts become faster vibratory, they in turn, turn around and do the same service work. Eventually in this particular Universe/larger reality, every Soul will be fully retrieved (except those that destroyed themselves) and all will be fully conscious to their true nature and origin.

And then, we move onto to our true and original purpose, to become full companions and Co-Creators with the Source and the Whole. Basically we partake in a giant artistic/musical/creative collective, were we create our own individual, unique Universes/larger realities, and new Spirits to grow up/evolve in same, perpetuating and expanding the Creative process. I kind of picture it as an ever growing/expanding symphony where we all play in harmony with one another, but at the same time we are jamming and adding unique, spontaneous parts of ourselves to the total music.

And "why", because creating out of the space/intention of Love just feels dang good and right.