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posted May 05, 2009 08:18 AM            

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Just to add another element to it. I think brilliance comes through allowing it to come or flow through you. I mean, that it's divinely inspired and you are the conduit bringing it through. I believe a lot of music comes through like that.

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Posts: 5611
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 05, 2009 10:20 AM            

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Sorry for going off topic for a moment, but I'm curious about something: What's your rising sign, Eve?

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Posts: 191
From: jane
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 05, 2009 12:02 PM            

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PA -

quote:

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I think brilliance comes through allowing it to come or flow through you. I mean, that it's divinely inspired and you are the conduit bringing it through.

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Yes, I see it that way too. Talent is the ability to know how to listen. Whatever the particular talent is - music, computers, cheering up a friend - I think the people who are best at it know how to listen to what that craft needs from them, and how to use their personal resources to bring that craft to life. They may not have much technical precision and need practice to perfect that, but I think it's that conversation with a craft that is talent.

When that ability to converse with it is muddled, a talented person may seem to have peaked and lost his mojo.

And of course I'm with you on the necessity of passion. I know you're a million parts Aries, but I've come to associate that pov with Venus in Aries in particular.

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Posts: 191
From: jane
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 05, 2009 12:07 PM            

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MVM -

I've missed you too! I missed you so much, in fact, that in another thread I was so excited to see you that I asked you to be my cyber girlfriend. You, uh, didn't respond. Surely you didn't see my proposal, yes, that's the only option.

Re: passion ... that fits in with what I was saying to PA. It's that union people feel with a craft that brings those passionate feelings, imo. They listen to what it needs, and let its needs mingle with who they are as an individual.

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Posts: 191
From: jane
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 05, 2009 12:09 PM            

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AG - Scorpio

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Posts: 3490
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: May 2009

posted May 05, 2009 03:41 PM            

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Eve, I totally missed that thread/post you're talking about (I would never ignore you, but I think you know that )

Listening and talent - this is pretty interesting. So being attuned tell someone how to 'practice' or which direction to go in to master their craft (whatever it is). I have to agree with that...but I do think it's also challenging at times because sometimes as you listen, you don't really know where you're being led, but have to have a level trust regardless.
This sounds a lot like intuition.

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posted May 05, 2009 03:48 PM              

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I see AG has decided to totally ignore me. That's cool... just so l know and don't think you are passing over my valid point!

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Posts: 5611
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 05, 2009 03:59 PM            

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Eve:

Thank you. That's interesting. I have a Navy buddy with that Sun/Asc combo. You seem nicer than him.

I was asking because I'm kind of curious to know a Sag with Taurus rising, which would make an 8th house Sag Sun. I'm curious as to the connection I would have with such a person.

Lara:

With regard to practicing perfectly? The only comment I'd make is that sometimes the self-taught stumble on to better or different ways of doing things, so you could conceivably have two masters whose ideas of perfect practicing differ.

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posted May 05, 2009 04:11 PM              

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Well, "perfect practice makes perfect" is actually a renowned quote or saying.

I shall let you read up about this interesting man.
http://www.vincelombardi.com/about/bio.htm

EDIT: sorry AG, my computer seems to have posted my reply without me clicking on post!!
The thing i have witnessed about perfection and talent is this: it's a personal opinion but i have noticed that if you start something in a perfect fashion then there is no limit to what you can achieve with it! It is only when you start IMperfectly and you instill imperfection within the brain and the memory that things go oops
Does that make sense?

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Posts: 5611
From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted May 05, 2009 04:33 PM            

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I'm more interested in listening to common man's interpretation of whether individual man is limited or unlimited. I'm wondering if anyone's going to take up the unlimited perspective.

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Posts: 3490
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: May 2009

posted May 05, 2009 04:39 PM            

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What do you mean about limits, AG?
Are you wondering if there's a place where there's perfection/mastery and there's no other place to move on to? Or do you mean something else?

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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted May 05, 2009 04:49 PM            

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That does make sense. I'll get back to you when things slow down at work.

edit: I originally posted this earlier, but came back to find the white screen, so had to refresh.

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posted May 05, 2009 05:37 PM            

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With regard to Lara's last line, I do believe that you can start imperfectly, and acheive at least a decent result, so I disagree that it's imperative that one start perfectly.

quote:

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What do you mean about limits, AG?
Are you wondering if there's a place where there's perfection/mastery and there's no other place to move on to? Or do you mean something else

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Something else. Going back to my original post, I wonder if practice makes perfect, or if that's merely an optimistic view of things. If practice does indeed make perfect, than individual man is limitless. If practice doesn't ensure limitless potential, then we may have to scale back our optimism as to what individual man is capable of.

What it boils down to is I'm wondering if I've come to a practical answer on this topic or not. Right now I think there are limits, and that natural talent does probably account for a lot.

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Posts: 3490
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posted May 05, 2009 05:51 PM            

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I did read it. I guess my answer is that I have no idea lol.
Does it make me totally shallow if I don't worry about limits in that way when I am pursuing something I care about passionately? Because I really don't think about it since there's always going to be someone who is better.
I think this is the thing for me as to why it's all unlimited: There's always going to be someone who does it better.

But then I am also highly competitive in nature, and maybe this is why I think this way.

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Posts: 5611
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posted May 05, 2009 06:09 PM            

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I didn't mean to suggest that you didn't read it. Only that my question of limitation is following from that.

I don't think it makes you shallow. I'm happy that you thought about it, and came to an answer that works for you. I think you're right in your answer. There's no point in accepting your limitations without having explored what they are.

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posted May 05, 2009 06:18 PM              

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Oh, we are all unlimited.

We limit our selves through our own stupidity though lol

I believe sincerely that we all have the answer to everything within us, we just rarely ask all the right questions to obtain them.

It we doubt that perfection is certainly unattainable. If we fear nothing and trust in our abilities then perfection is easily within our grasp.

To quote Bruce Lee:
"using no way as way; having no limitation as limitation"

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Posts: 3490
From: Bay Area, CA
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posted May 05, 2009 06:22 PM            

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What do you mean by 'perfection', Lara?

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posted May 05, 2009 06:32 PM              

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Perfection as in mastery!

TOTAL MASTERY.

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Posts: 5611
From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted May 05, 2009 06:33 PM            

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Now we're getting into an interesting area.

Edit: Oh wait. Maybe we're not.

I don't know about total mastery. Sounds impractical.

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posted May 05, 2009 06:40 PM            

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I believe in mastery, as in getting better at something you're passionate about.
Total mastery....no, I don't know. There's always going to be someone better. And I don't mean that as a negative thing either.
I think I personally use that as fuel sometimes...not to be better than those who are on a higher level, but to use them as examples. But even then there's someone better, always.

So I don't know about total mastery/perfection. I think it might be in our nature to try and achieve it, but not to get there 100% really.

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posted May 05, 2009 07:15 PM              

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If you believe 'there's always going to be someone better' then there will be and you are defeating the point!
Do you think
Bruce lee
Ayrton senna
Pele
Thought there was someone better?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Self doubt

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posted May 05, 2009 07:28 PM              

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MVM - how can mastery be anything but TOTAL? Surely, that IS mastery?

BTW i'm sorry if i'm not making sense cos i'm having a problem with LL tonight and it's randomly posting my posts without me clicking on submit reply!

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posted May 05, 2009 07:30 PM            

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They may very well have thought there was someone better until they had no more reason to do so. I don't that idea is hurtful really, because if you're seeking to join the company of the best, you can consider what the best have done and are doing.

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posted May 05, 2009 07:49 PM            

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I get what you're saying, Lara, but I think we might be talking about different things maybe.
I'm not really talking about self-doubt or a lack of self-esteem in this case.
(My own confidence is highly intact when it comes to my personal passions lol.)

But I'll go with that version of reality: We achieve this great place of so-called 'perfection' and total mastery... and then what? See, that is limitation to me. Where else is there to go, beyond perfection? Nowhere.
It's stagnant (or it feels like it to me). If I got that 'perfect' at something, I would get terribly bored. I would find something new which I love and do it all over again...because I guess I feel the process itself of mastery is infinitely more interesting than perfection itself.

That's just me though.

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posted May 05, 2009 08:13 PM              

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beyond perfection is oneness with one's craft/skill.

I don't think the greates in their fields actually 'aspire' at all.
I doubt Beethoven aspired to anyone. I know for a fact that Senna and Lee didn't.

It's an inner state of mind and that mindset is unswerving. It urges the person toward perfection and through total absorption of the person within the craft/skill perfection and oneness is achieved.

Maybe i'm just talking bollocks but l personally know quite a few people at the very top of their fields and i observe them. I was at the top of my field in my country until l had kids.

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