posted December 16, 2009 06:22 PM         

I guess what we see to be male and to be female has differed over time. Not only womens freedom from inequality, but Mens too. Women are behaving like men in some respects, with many Women behaving like Men.

I mean, can you believe it? Women are actually drinking in pubs these days. Going out drinking like Men. The shock!
Even harder to believe....Men are cleaning and doing laundry. Can you believe it? Unheard of!

posted December 16, 2009 08:06 PM         

Some say men have a hard time crying because it's frowned upon, for example. But one guy who lost all his T (testosterone) due to prostrate cancer treatments said he found it easier to cry, and much more significantly, to empathize which he hadn't been able to do since he was a little boy. Which would suggest T (and thus maleness) is behind a lot of competitiveness, helping to explain why men are most often in positions of power, because T (directly or indirectly) spurs it in them. (Women also produce varying degrees of T, btw.)

It's also believed that women tend to understand faces and be more aware of subtle changes in voice tones because it helps to deal with children too young to effectively verbalize, among other things.

Still, there are always exceptions, and they make me curious.

posted December 16, 2009 11:40 PM         

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In our search for wellness and health, we increasingly look for science and technology to bring us the balance we crave. We are all susceptible to wanting the latest miracle pill, the new sleek workout machine, the latest "Improved Eating Plan." But in truth, health and wellness are about sinplicity and the basics. So my advice is, if you're looking for diet or exercise tips, go back, (way back!), and live like a caveman.

Okay, now she's gone off the deep-end, you're thinking. Live like a caveman? What?!

Wait. Before you zap me off into Internet oblivion, hear me out. Here is what I mean.

First of all, studies of the last known hunter/gatherer societies show that in pre-agricultural societies, people worked an average of 20 hours per week. This time was taken up by such activities as gathering food and hunting small game. Not a bad schedule and one that most modern-day people would envy.

Second, getting food for cave people was a little more involved than going to the corner store. Usually they had to run after it. At the very least they had to walk long distances to pick it and to haul water as well. Poof! Instant aerobics. Human bodies are designed for daily motion and lots of it. So next time you get on your treadmill, ask yourself, how long would it take me and 5 of my closest friends to catch a buffalo? I guarantee it’s a lot longer and at a much faster pace than their 20 minutes of walking you’re planning on doing on that treadmill. Raise your expectations. Instead of asking, “How little exercise can I do?” ask “How much?”

The caveman’s diet was also quite different from ours and it’s safe to assume, free from Big Macs. Think about it. Food that’s standing still (as in plants, nuts, fruits, etc.) is much easier to get than food that’s running away. Studies show that cave people’s diets actually consisted of under 20% meat and even less at certain times of the year. They got additional protein from plant sources, such as nuts.

A wise nutritionist one told me, “Eat food that remembers were it came from,” as in fresh, unprocessed, unchanged by machines and hormones and gene therapy, unmixed with preservatives and colors. Eat the food your great great (etc) grandfather the caveman might have found growing near his cave.

Cave people were also free from the chronic worry and stress endemic to modern life. Our fight or flight adrenaline response was designed for “one-shot” stress (oops, that saber-toothed tiger wants to eat me- run for it!), instead of the ongoing, corrosive stress we place on ourselves over deadlines and family obligations and thousands other things.

The list is long. Our caveman forefathers basked in the sunlight for long hours, lived in cooperative family and clan groups and only took what they needed from the earth. While I don’t advocate giving up the many wonders of modern life (how else would my words be getting to you today?) I do think we stand to learn a lot from our cave people ancestors.

So go out there and be a cave man (or woman!).

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posted December 18, 2009 12:43 AM         

In any case, a simple google search produced a lot of results including this: http://www.askmen.com/dating/dzimmer_60/72_love_answers.html

posted December 18, 2009 10:57 AM         

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Women have more to lose by becoming pregnant than a man impregnating a woman.

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Yes, if pregnant, they have a baby. Not the point.
Talking about the creation of children. If a bloke takes a pill, the chances of a woman getting preganant is very slim.
The other way, anything can happen.

The current system is built for control by women, control and choice whether tohave a baby or not, regardless of whether the Man wants to. Im looking for equality in this regard.
Go ask the small number of Men who have had an unwanted child due to someone forgetting the pill, or it doesnt work. Im sure they would have taken, and welcomed the male pill with absoloute joy.

Women can control, to an certain extent, what happen regards pregnancy. They can take the pill, the morning after pill, or even further...abortion. Worst case scenario....you have the baby and adopt.
Yeah, a large strain on the body, but they dont have to look after the wanted/unwanted child.
Men, financially, do. Something they cannot get out of (they do, yes, I know before you relay stories)

So I disagree, Men have more to lose, due to the lack of control they have. Can they give a woman a morning after pill? Can they put the baby up for adoption if they didnt want a child? No!

In what respect do you feel women have more to lose?

I can search all day, but if nothing ever happens, it is pointless. There have been reports for many years. Hasnt happened.

Yeah, the oldest profession normally has the image of women. Although, the times are changing.
I guess why the divide is there, women used to/still feel that they are the prize, the beauty and good for appearances, maybe thats why they play the passive role in relationships. They play that role expecting Men to come upto them, and Men, like a drug addict, do.

I guess the main point of this thread is to question....does a man look and say: Beer, Oh I must drink that, I'm a man. While at the same time woman says: Oh make-up, I must put that on, I'm a woman.

What is it about Women and Men that makes themselves accept whatever social role is laid out for them? Something which has never really changed over time. Basically, why are Men and Women robotic/zombiefied/drones who cant seem to break thier programming and act in an individual way?

posted December 18, 2009 05:11 PM         

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Dervish, do you have a Scorpio SN?

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I'm not certain.

But if it helps, my moon is Sag. When I had my exact time of birth given, my Mercury showed up in Scorpio, though when I estimate it shows up in Libra (given that I was born in the wee hours of October 21, this makes sense to me).

According to my chart that I have a copy of (based on the estimated time, which is within a few minutes of the actual):

Planetary Positions:

True Node Cancer 6 degree37'40 in house 11 retrograde

Moon in Sag 17 degree 44'55 in house 4 direct

House Position:

Imum Coeli in Scorpio 26 degree 23'06

posted December 18, 2009 05:30 PM         

Get real.

But just for the sake of argument, say that it is: why would the men who control the research and development be part of this conspiracy, and screw themselves out of their own male birth control pill?

And hoo boy...what has a woman got to lose by having a child? Where do I even begin with that one? How about one's entire life being changed? More than a few women have come to look at their child or children as balls & chains. And even as a mere babysitter I've seen chaos & destruction from children that made me desire a whip and slave shackles for the little terrors (and most likely forgotten what a terror you once were, even if you didn't intend to be one). Then there's the clothes & toys quickly outgrown, tired of, or even destroyed on purpose, let alone the endless medical bills, food, vitamins, and school supplies. That's money that could be going to her own clothes & fun & needs. And time, too, cleaning up and caring for children that also takes away from one's own enjoyments & personal goals.

And you also overestimate the financial burden on unwilling men. While I'm sure it's inconvenient at best, and often downright hurts, he isn't responsible for every financial responsibility of the child, only in contributing to it. She feels the pain of economic burden, too, even with his help.

My dad had to pay child support after the divorce. Despite that he got his own house, car, and a live in lover, and kept up his drinking habits (btw, his live in lover didn't like that he had to pay out child support either, as that was money she'd have rather had spent on her). So I don't see him as "enslaved" (especially as he'd been married to Mom for years).

Meanwhile Mom, who got the house, and on welfare AND child support, there were times that the power was turned off (unpaid bills) and I had to go elsewhere if I wanted to eat. Granted, had Mom not smoke & drank away a lot of that money and lived frugally, going to thrift stores and the like, she COULD have raised me on what Dad contributed in a decent (if spartan) manner, but that's beside the point.

I've seen a mother with multiple children sign over her entire child support check once for beer & cigarettes in a store (banks already closed & a holiday weekend, so she couldn't cash it normally, nor was she willing to wait to get her addictions). IIRC, the monthly check for multiple children needing food, clothes, hospital visits, and who knows what else (and that's not counting utilities, water for cleaning, etc), was for barely over $80.

Cheap ****** make more money than that, and have less expenses.

Granted, women have some advantages in the legal part, especially regarding child custody & support (this isn't total, mind you, just simply she's more likely to get her way than not). OTOH, men tend to be ignored. My dad broke through a window and violently attacked Mom in a drunken rage while I hid terrified during the divorce, among other such things, and the police wouldn't show up until long after he was gone and never enforced the restraining order against him.

'Course I bring up again that men have pills to help them enjoy sex more. To my knowledge, women don't. (There are claims of such pills for sale, as they are in demand, but I haven't heard of any that actually worked.)

In some ways men have the advantage, too. But even with the men in control I don't see that as some conspiracy to enable men at the expense of women, and marvel that you seem to see a conspiracy of women to enable themselves collectively at the expense of men.

posted December 18, 2009 07:15 PM         

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Trust me, we women tend to hate each other far too much to work together that effectively.

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posted December 18, 2009 07:43 PM         

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Women can control, to an certain extent, what happen regards pregnancy. They can take the pill, the morning after pill, or even further...abortion. Worst case scenario....you have the baby and adopt.

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Ok - Two completely different issues.

One problem was that women can control getting pregnant.. whilst men cannot.

This is complete bull because men have the condom (the most commonly used form of contraception).. so they DO have control over this.
You said men do not usually like it. My answer to that is: Grow Up! There are many things that are slightly uncomfortable. Hormonal pills will most probably not be more comfortable for you than a condom. Imagine having water retention 3 days in a row, with your ankles & knees swollen, for example.

This would be MORE uncomfortable than wearing a piece of rubber during sex.
Many hormonal pill side effects (some of which are tedious and common - like the example above --- others which are quite serious) - & can be worse than the condom.

So you find the condom somewhat uncomfortable? Deal with it! Life is never perfectly comfortable.

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They can take the pill, the morning after pill

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OH - Are you saying you would prefer to take a Morning After pill - rather than wear a condom.. Coffee?
However uncomfortable wearing a condom may seem - I am certain that throwing up for an entire day and feeling like 'death warmed up' would have to be worse!

_____________________________________

The second problem you mentioned is that once a woman is ALREADY pregnant she has more of a say regarding the faith of the child.. than the man has.
I think this is a highly morally troublesome issue and we could be here discussing it years later.. I do not know what is morally right or wrong here - I can't even muster an opinion on it.
There is the version according to which it should be the mother's choice whether or not to abort - since she will be carrying the baby in her body for the next 9 months & raising it for the next few years. The version according to which it should be the father's choice, since he may be paying child support for the next 18 years. The version upon which this should be a mutual decision. And finally the version according to which the child has its own rights and whether it lives or dies should not be either of the parents' decision.

My feeling here is that - once a woman is impregnated (in the case of unwanted/unplanned pregnancy).. no matter who decides what happens - someone will get the raw end of the bargain. There is no perfect fairness here.
If the child lives (because that was the mother's decision) - the father may be obliged to pay child support. If the child lives because the mother was pressured into keeping the child (even though this was not her choice) - she will have to spend 9 months having it and an entire life taking care of him/her. If the child gets put up for adoption, they never meet their real parents, which may or may not cause psychological problems down the track. If the child is aborted on whomever's decision.. he/she no longer has the possibility to experience a LIFE (and some believe a LIFE has value..)

posted December 18, 2009 08:08 PM         

ManEater - Nelly Furtado: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb1W-wp4TNY

Ok - so now I guess, maybe I'm winding you up a little..

posted December 24, 2009 10:30 PM         

With the way this thread has panned out,
I might as well have put the title as "watch out for these female dogs that will trap you into pregnancy and get away with it."

Alas, no!

Tis all about Mars and Venus, or even Venus and Mars. Did Mars come first? I think so

A recent thread complained about the way women can be viewed as meat, with all the previous people in life suddenly meeting again and being "pro-active" in furthering interest.

Does anyone have a problem with this dance?
You get a few changes, yet the women still do everything to make themselves physically attractive for the partner, enabling Men to take the first move.
Most times when a Man approaches, you must get the idea that He is interested in you with no clothes on.
We do have a few threads on here in which some women oogle Men in an almost despicable way as Men view Women. The gap is closer for sure.

Are women happy playing the Venus, passive role? Sure, you get dates, but don't you think how a woman acts when relating just re-inforces how ingrained the feminine/passive role is in society?

posted December 25, 2009 12:45 AM         

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In what respect do you feel women have more to lose?

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Well, they just can't run away from a pregnancy/child. A woman has to deal with the consequences of an accident. Therefore, it is better that women have control of the pill. Not saying that a male birth control pill is BAD and shouldn't be made. Anyway, the birth control pill came about largely due to the fact that there was a single person who funded the research and made sure that she would see a birth control pill for women in her lifetime. It took a long time for it to be developed. Maybe you could convince a rich friend to fund the research?

quote:

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Basically, why are Men and Women robotic/zombiefied/drones who cant seem to break thier programming and act in an individual way?

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Feminism tries to fight this. A lot of enlightened people don't give in to gender stereotypes...

posted December 26, 2009 04:23 PM         

No, nothing wrong with women at all.

posted December 26, 2009 05:32 PM         

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The current system is BUILT FOR the control by women?

In some ways men have the advantage, too. But even with the men in control I don't see that as some conspiracy to enable men at the expense of women, and marvel that you seem to see a conspiracy of women to enable themselves collectively at the expense of men.

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I am concerned with the amount of control women have over Men, especially related to equal control over chemical contraception. Not for enjoyments sake. I do not see the conspiracy, I just see lazyness. People too into roles/current practices.

quote:

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But just for the sake of argument, say that it is: why would the men who control the research and development be part of this conspiracy, and screw themselves out of their own male birth control pill?

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quote:

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And hoo boy...what has a woman got to lose by having a child? Where do I even begin with that one? How about one's entire life being changed? More than a few women have come to look at their child or children as balls & chains. And even as a mere babysitter I've seen chaos & destruction from children that made me desire a whip and slave shackles for the little terrors (and most likely forgotten what a terror you once were, even if you didn't intend to be one). Then there's the clothes & toys quickly outgrown, tired of, or even destroyed on purpose, let alone the endless medical bills, food, vitamins, and school supplies. That's money that could be going to her own clothes & fun & needs. And time, too, cleaning up and caring for children that also takes away from one's own enjoyments & personal goals.

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quote:

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My dad had to pay child support after the divorce. Despite that he got his own house, car, and a live in lover, and kept up his drinking habits (btw, his live in lover didn't like that he had to pay out child support either, as that was money she'd have rather had spent on her). So I don't see him as "enslaved" (especially as he'd been married to Mom for years).

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quote:

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Granted, women have some advantages in the legal part, especially regarding child custody & support (this isn't total, mind you, just simply she's more likely to get her way than not). OTOH, men tend to be ignored. My dad broke through a window and violently attacked Mom in a drunken rage while I hid terrified during the divorce, among other such things, and the police wouldn't show up until long after he was gone and never enforced the restraining order against him.

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'Course I bring up again that men have pills to help them enjoy sex more. To my knowledge, women don't. (There are claims of such pills for sale, as they are in demand, but I haven't heard of any that actually worked.)

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Not aware of the female market, though other chemical substances I am aware of. Maybe not targetted at sex, but I'm sure you would enjoy the act even more. Shop around.

posted December 26, 2009 09:23 PM         

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They have time out of work to look after a child to gain.

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Yeah because raising children (especially at the baby stage) is such a piece of FUN cake (and this is another example of traditionally womens work being devalued, but I won't get into that)! And I don't know what the laws are like in the UK but America has ****** parental leave. Most companies don't even offer it. A woman basically has to quit her job. And if a company does offer it, they don't pay you. It's not like a paid vacation. In countries that do offer good maternal leave, they also offer fathers paternal leave.

posted December 28, 2009 11:03 PM         

Granted, I find your posts so confusing at times because of the words you use (which are often as "clear as mud" as not for me) that I wonder if English is your native language.

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Yes, Men are ignored and may even say discriminated against in legal proceedings

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I’m not sure what you’re saying. I was saying that women suffer from the law, too, like how Mom's restraining order was not enforced. But you sound as if you’re saying men’s concerns are ignored and are thus the only ones to suffer in this game, again showing men as “victims” to “women’s control.” If so, you're either not reading (skimming doesn't count) what I write or are failing to comprehend what you read, which is the system is unfair to both genders in different ways.

Speaking of which:

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There are more benefits to having a chil than just financial

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Clueless! You are utterly clueless! My words were utterly wasted on you!

Having a child is NOT a way to get rich, or even comfortable.

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Emotional, social and the rest

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HAHAHAHA! You are SERIOUSLY without a clue! I’d explain it to you, but I doubt you could understand. And I’m not certain you’re not just tweaking me.

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Shop around.

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Why should I pay money for a scam?

Other women can shop around. When one actually works, there will be many customers, not only by women, but also by men who might even try to slip it into her food or drink (especially if it gets her horny).

Besides, I'm happy with my low sex drive. And as I don't have to pretend to enjoy getting dick, I don't have to waste money on things like that or the lubricants as a great many other women do as most men don't seem to have a clue on how to get a woman in the mood (or how to satisfy her once she is).

posted December 28, 2009 11:25 PM         

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Notice how you use your words, Coffee: "Built for." This is just one example where you seem to imply that things are the way they are because they were intentionally designed that way, thought out & planned. Your other phrases, such as "control of men by women" further imply a conspiracy.

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That is one way to look at it.

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Granted, I find your posts so confusing at times because of the words you use (which are often as "clear as mud" as not for me) that I wonder if English is your native language.

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My first language is astrology, then English.