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Author Topic:   The Role Of Men and Women
Coffee
Knowflake

Posts: 896
From: Leeds
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 11, 2009 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Coffee     Edit/Delete Message
So what do you make of how the divide is these days? Equal? Same as always?

Im not a fan of chatting up women, which doesnt lead to dates of course. Taking the first step (as Men do) can be a sign of strength and confidence (depending on who tells you) or equally a sign of weakness.
Most Men want sex off women: No woman, no sex, therefore must go ahead and approach.

The male pill has not been invented (upto press) and yet the womans suprisingly has. Its obvious that to stop babies being made, you stop it at the source, which is the role of the Man, yet for some reason, not worked like that. This allows some women to control Men.

Talking of control, Ive seen family and friends fall over backwards for a woman, forgetting their family and friends all in the name of woman. Anything to get a shag is a term I would use. Men have been turned into being dependent on the female race, and it doesnt look like stopping.

Feminism was everything about equality, yet Men dont really seem to bother about these matters.

Why do you think things are the way they are?
Not sure about the stats, but Men hold many top positions and yet there still seems to be a big gap in the equality stakes.

Any comments? Best to provide your sex if you feel ok doing that.


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PeaceAngel
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posted December 11, 2009 02:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
Roles of the sexes. My (then) 7yo son asked if he could get his ear pierced. After some discussion he says, "but the girls have them". Point.

What's good for the gander, is good for the goose.

Sex? Yes, thanks, but I like men to be men in the traditional sense. Men and women are mentally of equal intelligence. Emotionally we differ - just because we do - with equal strengths and not so strong points. Physically we're designed differently. Why change a lightbulb when there's a man around who is more than happy to prove his masculinity by changing it for me? It works for me.

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Dervish
Knowflake

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posted December 11, 2009 03:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
I had a hard time following this, so just a few random comments of my own:

I've seen plenty of women get really stupid (even completely self-destructive and alienating everyone around her) over a guy, too. And I think women put far more emphasis on having a "soul mate" (or at least "another half," or something "is wrong" with them) than men do, and this does more to hinder their lives, including in finding a soul mate as they're too busy chasing anything that looks good or seems good so that they don't see the good matches (hormones are nasty liars, and that's before getting into the psychology that also messes things up, or the social emphasis on pretending & wearing social masks).

I'd think it's far easier on men who seem to just want to "get some" as that would be far less complicated. But then it isn't in part because both genders have this ridiculous sense of entitlement to having utterly ridiculous fantasies (be it the steamy lovers from romance novels & erotica to the sultry sex goddesses of smut), which not only complicates things even further for everyone, but keeps people from being happy with real people (and also from being happy with themselves for failing to live up to such unrealistic visions for the other gender).


I got especially lost where you started talking about the pill. But I'll add that it's much easier to find pills for male enhancement than female, despite that I'd think women in general would find such a pill to be far more useful (and there is a demand for it). (At the very least, maybe such pills would replace the current batch of date rape drugs popularly used by guys to gain sex--now THOSE are about control.)


There are many kinds of feminism, not some single hierarchy. Some feminism is about equality (and even then there are factions that argue what that means), others are more accurately called attempts at female supremacy. And there are so many other variations, too. And you should've seen the turmoil caused when a chapter of the Second Amendment Sisters opened at the Mount Holyoke College (a very traditionally feminist college), too, with some feminist believing "taking back the night" meant learning to defend themselves from stronger predators while others screamed that guns were phallic symbols of death.


Why do I think there are more men in positions of power? Because men are more competitive and want it more. I do believe that's biology, though there are artificial social forces that affect it, too. Sure there are exceptions, both ways, but I'm not referring to the specific, but the general. Personally, I think it's a bunch of foolishness and those in power aren't anywhere as powerful or fulfilled as they think they are. But maybe I just think that because I'm female and my estrogen-soaked, testosterone-deprived brain would.

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Coffee
Knowflake

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From: Leeds
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posted December 11, 2009 03:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Coffee     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, your Son has got to grips with male-ism, well done for starting him so young

Yeah, about equality and the role of Men and Women. Not only in todays society, but years gone by. Think of it as a history debate and nothing more. Sociology...whatever.

Im standing back with all my experience about how I have gone about in the world etc etc - which I dont want to get into, and looking at matters from an objective point of view. Mainly from the point of Men, as Im guessing Women will outnumber Men on here.

No sex on offer, get yer own Just discussion.

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Coffee
Knowflake

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From: Leeds
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 11, 2009 03:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Coffee     Edit/Delete Message
I was thinking about making it astrological. But naaaa, too much of that.

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PeaceAngel
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posted December 11, 2009 03:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
I didn't realise you were offering. I just thought it was a general question.

And that right there marks the difference between men and women - different styles of communication = miscommunication.

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PeaceAngel
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posted December 11, 2009 03:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
You could make it astrological, in the astro forum, but you'd have to redirect the question - how each of the sexes show their femininity or masculinity relative to their signs, maybe?

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Coffee
Knowflake

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From: Leeds
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posted December 11, 2009 03:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Coffee     Edit/Delete Message
Nah, just leave as is.

Just bringing a search up shows a guy who seems to read books, might help.
http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/ATLAS_EN/html/the_social_roles_of_men_and_wo.html

Sexology/sociology/history...whatever, you know how it goes. Men:Women. Easy.

quote:

I got especially lost where you started talking about the pill. But I'll add that it's much easier to find pills for male enhancement than female

Easy to follow. Its like the easy question that no-one seems to want to ask....why is there no male pill as similar to female pill. If there is, why have I not heard about it?
If you want to stop someone having kids, the whole point of that type of contraception, why not invent it for Men only? Why invent for women?

Is that some type of twisted equality to make the female more part of the process?

Pills for Male enhancement easier to find than for female?
Uh? Women can enhance thiers? I am learning every day.

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Dervish
Knowflake

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posted December 11, 2009 04:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
Why invent the pill for women? Because it's considered a WOMAN'S responsibility to look after her own reproduction. It's her body after all. And I don't see how this is control over men, not at all. What, were you trying to get a woman pregnant (to control her) and she wouldn't let you?

To me, that's like saying that a man getting a vasectomy is about controlling women. It's just silly.

And ok, I guess I'm using "enhancement" wrong. Forgive me, but all the spam I get for men is a bunch of crap that uses sneaky words & misspellings a lot to get past the spam filters and that makes very little sense to me (in fact, some of it scares me, like, I kid you not, "MAKE HER BLEED WITH YOUR MONSTER **** "). What I meant was pill to make sex enjoyable. Apparently many men can't enjoy sex (at least not as much as they used to anyway), thus Viagra.

Well many women also can't enjoy sex. But then we're not really supposed to, we're just supposed to lure men with it. If we can enjoy sex, great, but it's just not supposed to be important to us. Yet surprise, it is, but there's been very little development for a pill for OUR pleasure. Why not?

Oh, and btw, "King Dong" doesn't cut it for us. Just because you get bigger doesn't mean you get better. In fact, sometimes that just makes it even worse, especially if you can't even get us truly ready for it (though many of us are pressured to ACT as if we are even when we're not). I'll trust I don't need to explain the physical reasons why this is so.

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vapor-lash
Knowflake

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posted December 11, 2009 04:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
why is there no male pill as similar to female pill

Because the human beast is a self-centered one.

A male will not go through 9 months of pregnancy. There are also risks involved in taking the pill that seem 'worth it' for women, because several of the same risks are involved in being pregnant anyway.

For these reasons it is not particularly advantageous for men to take a pill.
You may argue that long term (avoiding child support etc) it may be advantageous - but a great majority of people don't think in those terms. Plus many men might just have casual sex and split, so they would never have the child support worry.

Pharmaceutical companies probably assume that a male pill would not sell nearly as well as a female pill - so why bother?

Money makes the world go round.. If there is no money in it, no one will bother inventing it.

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Coffee
Knowflake

Posts: 896
From: Leeds
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 11, 2009 04:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Coffee     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Why invent the pill for women? Because it's considered a WOMAN'S responsibility to look after her own reproduction. It's her body after all. And I don't see how this is control over men, not at all. What, were you trying to get a woman pregnant (to control her) and she wouldn't let you?

To me, that's like saying that a man getting a vasectomy is about controlling women. It's just silly.


Oh right, so we've hit a communication issue already. Where is the control in no pill for Men and one for Women?
Shimples!

If a woman wants a life on benefits at home with child, she can do, whether the bloke wants a child or not. Assuming she gets pregnant.
She is responsible (maybe read: CONTROL as a similar word) for stopping the pregnancy through using pill - control. If she doesnt want to take it, she doesnt have to. Men (regardless of condom - not many like them ) have to rely on woman to have taken the pill.
If its too late and she gets preganant by forgetting to take it or whoops, it didnt work, Man has just made himself responsible for a bundle of not so joy.

Why not get the pill on the market and find out eh? Money? Na, rubbish. Well, unless you mean money for women on benefits that the whole of society pays for when raising a wanted or unwanted child.

Its fairly shimples to understand and I suspect you are winding Me up in the way that women do, or you really didnt read it through well enough. You must be joking if you dont get how women only having a pill is a form of control. Call it responsible if you will.

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vapor-lash
Knowflake

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posted December 11, 2009 05:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
lol Coffee, I wasn't personally winding you up (if you were referring to me)

It depends on how you look at it I guess. I do see your point. I know a girl who was obsessed with having a child simply because the government had a $2000 grant for new mothers. Weird! As if that money would last 2 days, once you have a kid.

And there are obviously women who may get pregnant purely to "trap" Prince Charming lol or Prince Richie Rich (either way).

But then I find the opposite situation is very common, where a woman has no intention or desire to get pregnant or look after a child (as this could seriously interfere with her freedom and her career). In this case a pregnancy can be extremely undesirable for a woman also.

Men do have the condom - don't dis it.
If I was a guy and had a choice between taking a hormonal pill and wearing a condom, I would take the condom any day.
I just don't like the side effects.

And I honestly believe that a male pill wouldn't sell very well.

Although I do believe at one point they were devising a male pill - I'm sure I heard this on the news. Not sure what happened with it.

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vapor-lash
Knowflake

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posted December 11, 2009 05:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Men (regardless of condom - not many like them)

Not many women like the pill either.

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blue moon
Knowflake

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posted December 11, 2009 05:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
Men have emotional needs just like women do - it isn't all about sex. You're misunderstanding something that is going on or else you are just young.

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Coffee
Knowflake

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From: Leeds
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posted December 11, 2009 05:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Coffee     Edit/Delete Message
The equality of the situation is not... equal. Yeah, condom not there to be taken lightly and will (if used correctly) help prevent against not only unwanted pregnancies; diseases also. Femidon, is it called? Condom for women? They have that.
Detail not important.

The bonus thing about having a child is acceptable and good, but not if it makes a person go out and have children (whether the other person wants to or not) just for the sake of it. You control Mens sperm, the chances of that happening are very slim. If a person wanted to get pregnant, just to get the bonus, it wouldn't really happen with the male pill in circulation. Legitimate reasons only.

As hard as it is for my parents, family and friends to take, I am not getting married, nor having a child. EVER.
Maybe they have accepted this, I'm guessing not.

I have not played the Male role in terms of what society views as normal very well at all. I don't know what the situation would be like If I were a woman. I guess females have more pressure to join with a partner and therefore I am lucky in that regard.

No, wasn't aimed at you Vapor.

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katatonic
Knowflake

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posted December 11, 2009 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
there is no male pill because "shotgun" weddings are practically extinct today. if a man KNEW he was going to be held responsible for a child and its mother...more would use condoms!! which work about as well as most pills, iuds, and better than diaphragms (notorious for failure)...without the side effects.

also since ALL birth control pills have side effects and none are infallible, i doubt we will ever have a male pill. especially when siring children (whether you support them or not) is seen as a badge of masculinity...

however i think the feminist "movement" has made some great steps. far more fathers are willing to share the parenting role than was normal before. and i think far fewer women are interested in "hooking" a guy (meal ticket or emotional crutch) by pregnancy than in the past too.

the sexes are quite equal. they are DIFFERENT in many ways. but individuals are also equal but different. some women see the beauty in raising kids, some prefer to paint~and NOW, thanks to "unruly women" men have more of a choice in that matter too.

it is a pity that one can be physically mature enough to have a child and childish enough to think a $2000 bonus is ANY kind of incentive to do so! even the most realistic among us got a hefty shock when we discovered just how much responsibility (and money too) one takes on becoming a parent...

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Lyra
Knowflake

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posted December 11, 2009 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lyra     Edit/Delete Message
The role of this woman is most definetely not to have kids.

And the role of most modern men seems definetely not to be to provide.

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Dervish
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posted December 11, 2009 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Its fairly shimples to understand and I suspect you are winding Me up in the way that women do, or you really didnt read it through well enough. You must be joking if you dont get how women only having a pill is a form of control. Call it responsible if you will.

I assure you, there is no gynarchy conspiracy to "control" your sperm in the pharmaceutical industry. (There WAS a conspiracy to stop "the morning after" pill in the USA--led by fundamentalists, more male than female--but even that failed.) And technology isn't magic. Just because a pill can fool the body into thinking it's already preggers or whatever doesn't mean it can do the same to a man's body. And if you've seen the effects the pill has on enough women, you'd (like me) would be very hesitant to get on it yourself.

And what you call "control of a man's sperm" I call control of one's own body. Maybe you'd like that kind of control over your own body in pill form, too. Maybe one day you'll have it. It's not because women have conspired against you to keep you from having it, however.

And if I could wave a magic wand and give you a sterilization pill, I would. If you can't even hold yourself responsible enough to keep a woman from getting pregnant when you really don't want to be so saddled, then I really can't see you being responsible enough to support a child anyway. And that child sure as hell doesn't want to be born.

And frankly, any woman who'd get preggers just for a couple of thousand dollars should be sterilized as an unfit parent who'd only bring suffering into the world. I don't really give a damn about the man because he's an adult who should know better (and if you don't, that's YOUR problem, not some social injustice against you), but about the children who are innocent.

And frankly, I suspect you are the one doing the winding, though at this point in my life I've become cynical enough of my own species that I think you very well may be entirely sincere in what you post.

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koiflower
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posted December 13, 2009 04:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message
Coffee - I think you've brought this up before - the idea that women use having a baby as a form of control. I have thought this could be the case too - but only a very small minority would do this - a woman trying to 'keep her man' strategy.

I even had a friend tell me she loved bringing a man to the big 'O' as she felt she had taken a bit of him. Well, that was her idea of sex.

Some women have sex because they are in love with their partner.

Some women have sex because they love sex.

Some women like to control their bodies so that they can have great sex without having a baby.

Some women have sex to have a baby to start a family with, or without, a partner.

Soooo, many reasons........

Your thread title mentions the word "role" and that doesn't really connect directly to sexual acts. Roles are positions we take to keep a partnership going.

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koiflower
Knowflake

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posted December 13, 2009 04:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message
There are men out there who love the idea of having a partner and children. That is, there are people out there who love the idea of starting a family.

I think it's wonderful when 2 adults can support and give a consensus on bringing a child into the world - because it comes with so much responsibility.

I love the idea that there are men out there that understand the commitment side to a relationship and can be pro-active within a family.

I hope one day, you meet someone and you both love and respect each other and a small coffee bean is the result of your beautiful reunion. That is my wish for you and anyone - Love and companionship with another, and throw in a child for extra good measure.

Not all women are evil sperm thieves. Most women just want to be loved by somebody - hey, just like most men do!!!!

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koiflower
Knowflake

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posted December 13, 2009 04:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Feminism was everything about equality, yet Men dont really seem to bother about these matters.

They don't have to. Especially if they are tall Anglo Saxons.

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Coffee
Knowflake

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From: Leeds
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 15, 2009 06:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Coffee     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, the low numbered affair of Men being trapped by children is there. Though a more broader discussion is available to further explore.

Go back to the time of Adam and Eve. Cavemen and women, 1 and 1, expanding to billions with (estimated) 200,000 newborns every day. How have the role of the two sexes developed over the years and changed.
I guess in some religions, women can be seen to be inferior.

Psychologically, women generally act like women and the same for Men. Has this chnaged much, likely to change? What do you see as future trends?

Other discussion besides astrology. Seeing what other knowledge is out there
Its not all "women are evil and must be punished" I can take a day off from that.

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vapor-lash
Knowflake

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posted December 15, 2009 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Has this chnaged much, likely to change? What do you see as future trends?

I think our definitions of what makes a female and what makes a male have definitely changed. What about transvestites, for example? & the sex-change surgeries that some of them choose to have.. It was not possible or even thinkable years ago.


Have you watched that Miriam show? I'm pretty sure it was a UK reality show..

And the pregnant "man":


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Coffee
Knowflake

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From: Leeds
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posted December 15, 2009 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Coffee     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, sexuality has been in the news recently with Uganda. Can still happen today.

Not seen that program yet.

Yes rare cases.

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koiflower
Knowflake

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From: Australia
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posted December 15, 2009 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message
Call me discriminating but seeing a pregnant man feels weird.

Which is a weird thing to say for me, as I have had GLBT friends.

I don't mind a man coming into the female arena, but a woman becoming a man and then having a child is asking for too much.

Couldn't he have had a child when he was a woman? Or did he accidentally become pregnant while transitioning?

If he accidentally became preganant as a man, then he is still a woman - with a hairy face.

I could have a hairy face if I wanted to (thank goodness for a sharp gilette and lazer technology).

So, if I had fell pregnant with a hairy face could I be called a man?

Actually, it's impossible for me to become pregnant............SO I MUST BE A MAN!!!

i need to go and sit somewhere quiet and have a cup of tea

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