posted October 07, 2013 05:30 PM            

http://www.cartercenter.org/news/multimedia/HealthPrograms/MentalHealthReducingStigmaWorldwide.html

posted October 07, 2013 05:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
Do you work as an activist? You may want to listen to archived online conferences by The Carters... Working to fight stigma.
http://www.cartercenter.org/health/mental_health/index.html

http://www.cartercenter.org/news/multimedia/HealthPrograms/MentalHealthRedu cingStigmaWorldwide.html

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Wonderful! I've never thought of myself as exactly an activist, but I suppose I am. It's something I became involved with in my work, and realized that I feel very deeply about it.

I'm a member of NAMI, out of support for the people I work with, and I do what I can for people where I'm able...whether at work or walking down the street.

I think it's crucial for people to realize that mental illness isn't something that people can help, and no one signs up for it--anymore than people sign up for any other illness. I could add so much more here, but I'll leave it for now. Yes, I feel very passionately about this.

posted October 07, 2013 05:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Just curious, how do you think people should've reacted to dip when she became repeatedly abusive and even took to "stalking" others? Inform her where she can get psychiatric help (hotlines, FAQs, etc)? (Somehow, I don't think that would've helped any and would probably escalate it even if she truly was mentally ill than having some fun at our expense...)

That said, even if it was schizophrenia that doesn't mean she has to be allowed here, just like they wouldn't be allowed in other public places when they're having an episode. IRL the police are typically called (who may send them on their way or take them to jail or psychiatric facility). On message boards they tend to get banned right along with the trolls are who doing it for fun.

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<Edit>
I don't think that I answered your questions very effectively with my first attempt, so I'll give it another shot.

I think the best way to deal with people who are rude (and quite possibly not well) in the context of online forums is for the people on the forum to ignore as much as possible, be polite if possible, and contact Randall if they feel that something has been said that is so offensive that it can't be ignored or disregarded.

If someone is seriously mentally ill, there's hardly any point in lashing back out at them, even online.

I don't think that it does much good to offer up resources or hotlines to people who aren't coming out and saying "I'm having serious mental health issues and I need help".

That being said, I think that when a person's behavior is clearly escalating, that might be the time to ban them from the forum, especially if there have been numerous insults and/or inappropriate conduct.

I agree, an online forum is no different than a public space where there's a limit to what we should all be expected to put up with. If it's overly disruptive, then that person needs to go. It's unfortunate, but that's just sort of the way things work, as you mentioned. You can't sit in a coffee shop and yell obscenities at people and not be asked to leave, and it's essentially the same concept on these forums.

posted October 07, 2013 07:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Violets:
.... I'm a member of NAMI, out of support for the people I work with...

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posted October 07, 2013 07:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
What work do you do, Violet?

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posted October 07, 2013 07:50 PM            

I'm just trying to offer up some information, not trying to point any fingers in any way at anyone for anything.

posted October 07, 2013 09:44 PM            

And actually I'd say the same about trolls, though for different reasons. In the case of someone schizophrenic there's no point and any interaction is likely to escalate. In the case of a troll, well the entire point is to get you to react. Every time you correct or berate a troll or get upset then you lose and the troll gets rewarded with a point. They're not serious. Why is this hard to grasp? (And about the same for severe mental illness though then it's more sad than contemptible.)

To be clear, when I say troll I mean those who are TRYING to push your buttons, usually because they think your reaction is funny. There are even discussions groups where trolls give each other tips on how to best do this (and probably link to boards like LL that have many people to troll and no Ignore feature) and part of how they "score points" is to hide that they're a troll...if they're too obvious then they lose points with their fellow trolls (the ones that socialize with each other anyway). To many of them it's the same mentality of children prank calling, and the more you argue them, yell at them, try to reason with them, the louder they laugh at you, the more rewarding it is, and the more they do it. (Some are darker and do it as a sense of power they're otherwise missing in their lives rather than for the laugh.)

I do NOT mean those who are simply immature, bigoted, offensive, etc, as they sincerely share themselves (as opposed to provoking a reaction for laughs and/or power trip). I understand that it can be difficult to tell the difference sometimes but I think people should make the effort. One is sharing themselves while the troll is just toying with you. (And then there's those suffering deep mental illness as to be incapable of coherent thought and often hostile.)

And dip was obviously a troll or in desperate need of competent professional psychiatric care. Yet in either case the response should be the same: do not feed, do not engage, do not think you can reason with such a person, that's all like trying to put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it and I don't understand why so many at LL do that! When you do that you're saying, "Keep trolling us!" (or wasting your time if the person is psychotic or deeply delusional).

posted October 07, 2013 11:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:

I understand that it can be difficult to tell the difference sometimes but I think people should make the effort.

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Yeah, that was essentially the point I was trying to get across.

posted October 08, 2013 12:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by libraschoice77:
So what your saying is that Dip was mentally ill? And if she was how were we as LLs suppose to deal with her? In the old neighborhood I moved from, there was a mentally ill man that lived on our street, an I remember being afraid to go out of the house, because everytime I would walk past him he would try to run up an get in my face and laugh for no reason. I understand people have mental illness, an hope they get some help, but some people CAN be dangerous.

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Well, I think that's the unfortunate part. Sometimes people may run up to you and laugh, but they're not going to actually hurt you. Or then again, depending on the person, they might. I see a lot of mentally ill people where I live (especially when I lived in the city), and they don't bother me one bit.

If they bother me, I walk around them. It's that easy. If they seem potentially dangerous or angry, I get away from them.

Story:
I once broke up a fist fight between a homeless guy and a *very* mentally ill guy as I was going out with friends. I'm a petite woman, but I guess my voice made them stop. There were plenty of people around, but I just yelled "STOP IT!" and told them to walk away from each other.
The mentally ill guy had a shopping cart full of stuff that had gotten knocked over, and I offered to help him put his things back. But he started to yell at me and call me names, so I backed away from him. And then I went around the corner and called 911, and told them there was a severely mentally ill man who was clearly in need of psychiatric help at such-and-such corner. And then went on about my business.

People are afraid of what they don't understand.

I can't testify to any factual knowledge that she was, it was just what I assumed based on experience. Also, I dislike talking about people who have been banned, but I guess that's a pointless stance to take now.

At any rate, I think people can talk to whoever they want to, or choose to not engage with people who upset them.

If they upset someone badly enough on LL, I think people should send Randall a note and mention it, and then disengage further. It's easy to want to shout back at someone who is insulting us for no apparent reason, and with no apparent rationality involved. But it's pointless.

posted October 08, 2013 12:38 PM            

In society we go out an about to work and different places, if you go to an establishment you are expected to act a certain way in public around others. Don't know about you but if I go to a restaurant and see a person having an episode yelling an screaming at everyone and the management of the place says "oh its ok they could be mentally ill, let them be"!

Guess what, I won't be eating at that restaurant anymore, I take my business else where. Same thing goes for forums an internet also, you conduct yourself a certain way around people with interaction, and if you can't or are not able to then why should it infringe on other people? As far as I am concerned quite a few people here at LL were verbally abused by this person words, and yes words DO hurt!

posted October 08, 2013 12:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by libraschoice77:
Ok let me give an example...

In society we go out an about to work and different places, if you go to an establishment you are expected to act a certain way in public around others. Don't know about you but if I go to a restaurant and see a person having an episode yelling an screaming at everyone and the management of the place says "oh its ok they could be mentally ill, let them be"!

Guess what, I won't be eating at that restaurant anymore, I take my business else where. Some thing goes for forums an internet, you conduct yourself a certain way around people with interaction, and if you can't or are not able to then why should it infringe on other people? As far as I am concerned quite a few people were verbally abused by this person words, and yes words DO hurt!

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I agree, words hurt. Very deeply sometimes. Unfortunately, some people don't really understand what they're saying.

But back to your first point, no I don't expect people to simply allow themselves to be abused by someone simply because that person has a mental health issue and can't help themselves. If I saw that happening in a public place (or at my work, where it happens often enough), I would expect someone in charge to call 911 and report that there was someone causing a major disturbance, and that the person seemed in need of psychiatric help.

On an online forum, you can all feel free to ignore the person who is being rude or abusive, and take the proper routes of contacting the web master to say "Hey, this person is really verbally abusive, can you please do something about it?".

I don't find the drama that people occasionally create on here any more appealing than being randomly insulted by someone who probably can't help themselves, as opposed to people who can control their behavior (one would think).

posted October 08, 2013 12:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by libraschoice77:
Im done with posting in this thread, sorry but this is my view

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posted October 08, 2013 05:47 PM            

(clips) "I Want To Help People" (PatchAdamsMOVIE) [1:31] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKl8s0EO5T4

....you really don't know a person until you have the ability to see what's lying under the shallow surfaces.

Wow... I'm personally shocked here. I KNOW I might NOT "have" all the information and "context" for this discussion that has "bloomed" into "this" overnight..... *sad* so surprising....

STORY: One time on a bus, I saw an elderly person 'sticking out their tongue, making totally grotesque facial movements, wiggling their fingers in the air, rocking back and forth' and laughing with themselves......

Narrow critical 'Cover' point of view would say this person is demented, delusional, hallucinating, acting out, in some psychotic state. Someone could videotape it that way, show how utterly VERY INAPPROPRIATE and possibly "dangerous" this man is. They could get on their cellphone and call the police, or bus superintendent to 'meet' at the next stop so this person could be 'arrested' and sent off to jail, "loony-bin" (as someone has derogatorily stated), and kept on meds AWAY from "proper" Society.

BUT WHAT IF---- What if you did not "see" what was 'invisible' to you (and your camera).... There was a small toddler, a child, seated next to his mother. The ride was long and the had become 'fussy'.... This elderly 'gentleman' was Playing Peekaboo with this child. What a kindness! And entertainment for us who were near and watched the interplay.

"Witnesses" who could NOT see the whole context were in harsh 'judgment' of the elderly man in the story. By their collusion, they could have 'damaged' this man... They didn't have the "full" story.

Violet.... My first year at Lindaland, I only stayed with Asteroid Astrology, and maybe a few Astrology 2.0. It took other members leaving "links" around the 'whole' of Lindaland for me to "discover" who else was here.

Because I did NOT fully understand already-developed relationships here, I 'made mistakes'.... I defended some people whom I should have just stood back and "allowed" the 'process' of relationship honing happened unimpeded. There are strong personalities here.... (as Randall once pointed out). We ALL have to find our 'niche'.... LEARN from each other.

Violet, you have not participated in some of the more "heartwrenching" soul-grabbling stories of people... And I have missed a whole TRAIN of activity also.... (I appreciate the *bumps* that fill me in. I CARE with ALL MY HEART, and they 'know it' )

I may not agree with points of view of some members here. But we agree to disagree, time and time again. We are FLAWED people. What I and what WE ALL OWE EACH OTHER, "as humans" is our Debt of Love --- to each other, and to 'community' as a whole.

Sometimes it is a Good thing to have "contradicting" points of view, and to 'just' let them BE. Let them co-exist.

I have learned to apply a little more discretion, and won't jump in "as impulsively" as I used to. Some people whom I had personally judged as terrible, are now much more 'clarified' to me..... These people are some of the SANEST and most-wise in my eyes now.

And I LOVE--- WITH DEPTH OF HEART--- some "others" that I came to understand when I SAW their natal astrology charts, and my EYES opened my Heart..... (... breaks OPEN my heart! )

Some people here (whom some factions HATE and want to 'get rid of' ) are going through some of the HARDEST TRANSITS of a person's Lifetime Cycles. These are WITHOUT the social-economic environmental support that many others enjoy (right now). Charts are 'equal opportunity' transit wise, but as the Challenges come to the Individual, then The Group, AS A WHOLE, need to 'embrace' and NOT "shun" people who are not of our 'faction'.....

Lindaland is a GREAT place.... We can "practice" the Golden Rules, and KNOW that we are ALL capable of huge embarrassing mistakes..... fickle finger comes around to each, in time.

We need to "practice" our graciousness. Our Loving Compassionate Kindness.

It's so weird.... The bond I feel with the spirit of Lindaland, in general. In my spirit I want to protect her, and make sure everyone is gonna be okay.

And I really think that this is what the people of this thread topic are ACTUALLY discussing...... the 'PROTECTIONS' of people.

From my OWN 'personal viewpoint' I could see 'great damage' being done to 'some' who are being 'accused' right now of being 'disorderly'......

What I want to say is PLEASE, "WAIT".... Please consider that we ALL have a Limited point of view right now. I know 'and get' (understand) some people way more intimately, BECAUSE I've experienced that wrung on the Ladder of Life. I've been a participant, in decades past, in Trauma Groups.

My heart ACHES..... I "see" the signs, and I can "feel" where they are. Like the MOVIE CLIP of Patch Adams character "helping" the man 'Rudy' through play-energy--- 'drama' as some call it, GREAT BREAKTHROUGHS can happen... in an instant.

I want to IMPLORE your more 'charitable' sides to PLEASE consider being a Healer, instead of an occasional perpetrator. We can ALL fall into the Triangle..... It's SOOOO Human..... Please, Be Humane with your peers here. We are all EQUAL.... unfortunately OR fortunately.

We "need" each other...... We 'belong' to one another.

I want to defer banning or not-banning to RANDALL, and the ones he trusts to help make decisions......

Please!!! DON'T "BAN" P A T C H A D A M S !!

=STET= Letting post stand in ALL its human grammatical imperfections' *big smile*
Thank you soooo much for listening to urls, and reading my post LOL = Lots of Love!

posted October 08, 2013 06:07 PM            

You reminded me of a blog post I once read (and sent to Melody, I think - maybe six years ago). It's gone now, but in it, the author wrote about how she ended up sitting next to a woman on a bus, who was in bad shape and crying. Everyone on the bus acted as though she had something catching, and ignored or gave her funny looks, but this woman - she put her arm around her, and comforted her. The other woman, from what I remember, leaned into her hug, and just cried some more... I think she was feeling a bit better by the time the author of the post had to leave the bus.

And, yes! regarding tough transits. I've been through some really rough ones - still am (and now the eclipses, too - hooray). I feel good today, talked and laughed with my mother, but you bring up a good point that I've mentioned before, I don't know if it was here. People ooh and ah, and talk about tough transits - on another board, I read that Saturn through the 12th can be one of the worst, and I went through that until very late last year - and then those same people will turn and be rude to those people going through the hard transits.

Certain things shouldn't be tolerated, but when people treat you that way and you already feel like you're spinning out of control - it's terrifying and hurtful. I'm not sure how they should be dealt with in that case. If it isn't someone who is just here to stir things up and hurt people.

posted October 08, 2013 06:40 PM            

And that's a beautiful story about those ladies on the bus. Yes, for those who have that capacity to 'feel' and to Love: They are the Healers, and Champions in a world that sorely can use it right now...

(clips) Karmu: A Place In The Sun (biog, Edgar Warner) [5:42] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMyFnzjhaMA

===
6:42pm .... teasel... I see your edit....

I'm glad you described your personal transit experience with Saturn.... For me, that helps. As people know, I can be soooo 'gemMerc-SN'--- "in my head" and 'miss' the feelings behind it. But my own transits are 'squeezing' that out of me now.

I can see (for myself now) that It's "better" for me to risk and err on the side of Love, than be 'all in my head' and 'miss-out' the evolution of my Heart.

posted October 08, 2013 06:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:STORY: One time on a bus, I saw an elderly person 'sticking out their tongue, making totally grotesque facial movements, wiggling their fingers in the air, rocking back and forth' and laughing with themselves......

Narrow critical 'Cover' point of view would say this person is demented, delusional, hallucinating, acting out, in some psychotic state. Someone could videotape it that way, show how utterly VERY INAPPROPRIATE and possibly "dangerous" this man is. They could get on their cellphone and call the police, or bus superintendent to 'meet' at the next stop so this person could be 'arrested' and sent off to jail, "loony-bin" (as someone has derogatorily stated), and kept on meds AWAY from "proper" Society.

BUT WHAT IF---- What if you did not "see" what was 'invisible' to you (and your camera).... There was a small toddler, a child, seated next to his mother. The ride was long and the had become 'fussy'.... This elderly 'gentleman' was Playing Peekaboo with this child. What a kindness! And entertainment for us who were near and watched the interplay.

"Witnesses" who could NOT see the whole context were in harsh 'judgment' of the elderly man in the story. By their collusion, they could have 'damaged' this man... They didn't have the "full" story.

---

Child would be heard in this case if not seen. There is such a thing as "context" that should be apparent your hypothetical scenerio, too. And if someone called the cops and they tased him as he got off the bus then the cops would likely be facing a costly lawsuit (and rightly so, heck even if he WAS demented).

And an old man acting out that way could be demented, could be reacting badly to meds, could even be having a stroke, but even so he in no way compares to people like dip, nor does he compare to some young man shouting and being hostile in a public place that make people fearful for their safety.