posted August 26, 2014 11:22 AM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Simple truth, God created a world in which meat eating is part of the cycle. Anything so separate from nature as to be beyond that is not God...or at least not the Creator.

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posted August 26, 2014 11:28 AM            

I feel the choice of been vegetarian is a privilege that does not make you superior in any way and that most people in the world do not have the privilege of having this choice.

Tell poor and starving people or anyone having a hard time surviving that they can only eat vegetables. Check out naked and afraid and notice how the participants who are vegetarian end up eating meat bec they are starving.

posted August 26, 2014 11:33 AM            

The whole vegetarian phenomena is a way to make people feel special and is hypocritical.

Not to mention that you deciding not to eat meat is passive activism that in reality changes absolutely nothing which really annoys me...if you care so much then go and be actively involved hard core on stopping animal cruelty; refusing to eat meat changes nothing.

ADD:

If you don't eat bc you have a blood type A and you feel meat is not good for you health wise, I respect that.

posted August 26, 2014 11:49 AM            

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Originally posted by Swanlake:
It's very curious how people in general don't want to/ are unable to think about how they would feel if humans were slaughtered as food, by a larger species.

-Just that fact in itself .

Why is that? - Anyone?

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We don't even have to talk about a larger species.

Cannibalism has existed in the past and it can come back if humanity puts themselves in a situation were its necessary for survival; watch the walking dead.

But ofcourse nobody wants to be hunted. Luckily we have the luxury of having an agricultural system and farming and the luxury of not resorting to cannibalism. Most of us including myself would rather die than resort to such measures bc we did not grow up in an environment were this is considered normal.

posted August 26, 2014 11:57 AM            

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amelia28

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Originally posted by ilunatique:
Quoting my Master, Osho.

" Man, naturally, should be a vegetarian, because the whole body is made for vegetarian food. Even scientists concede to the fact that the whole structure of the human body shows that man should not be a non-vegetarian. Man comes from the monkeys. Monkeys are vegetarians, absolute vegetarians. If Darwin is true then man should be a vegetarian.

Now there are ways to judge whether a certain species of animal is vegetarian or non-vegetarian: it depends on the intestine, the length of the intestine. Non-vegetarian animals have a very small intestine. Tigers, lions – they have a very small intestine, because meat is already a digested food. It does not need a long intestine to digest it. The work of digestion has been done by the animal. Now you are eating the animal’s meat. It is already digested – no long intestine is needed. Man has one of the longest intestines: that means man is a vegetarian. A long digestion is needed, and much excreta will be there which has to be thrown out.

If man is not a non-vegetarian and he goes on eating meat, the body is burdened. In the East, all the great meditators – Buddha, Mahavir – have emphasized the fact. Not because of any concept of nonviolence – that is a secondary thing – but because if you really want to move in deep meditation your body needs to be weightless, natural, flowing. Your body needs to be unloaded; and a non-vegetarian’s body is very loaded.

Just watch what happens when you eat meat: when you kill an animal what happens to the animal when he is killed? Of course, nobody wants to be killed. Life wants to prolong itself; the animal is not dying willingly. If somebody kills you, you will not die willingly. If a lion jumps on you and kills you, what will happen to your mind? The same happens when you kill a lion. Agony, fear, death, anguish, anxiety, anger, violence, sadness – all these things happen to the animal. All over his body violence, anguish, agony spreads. The whole body becomes full of toxins, poisons. All the body glands release poisons because the animal is dying very unwillingly. And then you eat the meat; that meat carries all the poisons that the animal has released. The whole energy is poisonous. Then those poisons are carried in your body.

That meat which you are eating belonged to an animal body. It had a specific purpose there. A specific type of consciousness existed in the animal’s body. You are on a higher plane than the animal’s consciousness, and when you eat the animal’s meat your body goes to the lowest plane, to the lower plane of the animal. Then there exists a gap between your consciousness and your body, and so tension arises and anxiety arises."

Mix this with quantum physic (everything is energy) heck, just think of our ancestors which always said a prayer or said sorry after killing an animal in order to cleanse the negative energy from him.
I know someone which gave up on meat since 5 years ago. if she eats a bit of meat now, her body will get sick and abort it in a violent way. She can barely stand the smell. Her psychic powers intensified.
I won't get into innunaki/annunaki talk now. Reptilians like meat, it comes natural. They are among us, and hell, theyre plenty. They made our system turn like this and make us bound to earthly matters. All of our leaders are the same royal reptile blood. I'll stop with this now.

I personally don't eat meat. Just fish. Oh yeah, I might get screamed at and I do - But fish is meat too! You're doing nothing. Well, and I'm not saying it just for my own sake, but the fish has the lowest conscious level from all the other animals. Memory lost every 8 minutes and so on, yeah? He doesn't realize what's really happening to him. Fish is a good alternative if you want to give up somehow.

Just give it a meditation.

Ashe.

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Adding some more interesting info to this

"(…) man has lost the path. No animal eats like man; every animal has its chosen food. If you bring buffaloes in the garden and leave them, they will eat only a particular grass. They will not go on eating everything and anything – they are very choosy. They have a certain feeling about their food. Man is completely lost, has no FEELING about his food. He goes on eating everything and anything. In fact, you cannot find anything which is not eaten somewhere or other by man. In some places, ants are eaten. In some places, snakes are eaten. In some places, dogs are eaten. Man has eaten everything. Man is simply mad. He does not know what is in resonance with his body and what is not. He is completely confused.
Now you are not eating according to the body need, you are eating just to taste it. The tongue has become the controller.

The tongue should not be the controller. It does not know anything about the stomach. It does not know anything about the body. The tongue has a specific purpose to fulfill: to taste food. Naturally, the tongue has to judge, that is the only food, which food is for the body – for my body – and which food is not for my body. It is just a watchman on the door, it is not the master. And if the watchman on the door becomes the master, then everything will be confused.

Now advertisers know well that the tongue can be tricked, the nose can be tricked. And they are not the masters. You may not be aware : much food research goes on in the world, and they say if your nose is closed completely, and your eyes closed, and then you are given an onion to eat, you cannot tell what you are eating. You cannot tell onion from apple if the nose is closed completely because half of the taste comes from the smell, is decided by the nose, and half is decided by the tongue – and these two have become the controllers. Now they know: whether meat/icecream/etc is nutritious or not is not the point. It can carry a flavor, it can carry some chemicals which fulfill the tongue but are not needed for the body.

Man is confused – more confused than buffaloes. You cannot convince buffaloes to eat ice cream. Try!

(…) everybody is carrying much rubbish in the stomach, because that is the only space in the body where you can suppress things. There is no other space. If you want to suppress anything it has to be suppressed in the stomach. If you want to cry – your wife has died, your beloved has died, your friend has died- but it doesn’t look good, looks as if you are weakling, crying for a woman, you suppress it : where will you put the crying? Naturally, you take a big breath and swallow it, in the stomach. That is the only space available in the body, the only hollow place where you can force.
If you suppress in the stomach…. And everybody has suppressed many sorts of emotions : of love, of anger, sadness, weeping-even of laughter. You cannot laugh a belly laugh. It looks rude, it looks vulgar – you are not cultured then. You have suppressed everything. Because of this suppression, you cannot breathe deeply, you have to breathe shallowly. Because if you breathe deeply then those wounds of suppression, they would release their energy. You are afraid.
Every child, when born, breathes through the belly. Look at a child sleeping: the belly goes up and down – never the chest. No child breathes from the chest, they breathe from the belly. They are completely free, nothing is suppressed. Their stomachs are empty, and that emptiness has a beauty in the body.
Once the stomach has too much suppression in it, the body is divided in two parts, the lower and the higher. Then you are not one; you are two. The lower is the discarded part. The unity is lost: a duality has entered in your being Now you cannot be beautiful, you cannot be graceful. You are carrying two bodies instead of one – and there will always remain a gap between the two. You cannot walk beautifully. Somehow you have to carry your legs. In fact if the body is one, your legs will carry you. If the body is divided in two then you have to carry your legs.
You have to drag your body. It is like a burden. You cannot enjoy it. You cannot enjoy a good walk, you cannot enjoy a good swim, you cannot enjoy a fast run – because the body is not one. The stomach has to be cleansed completely. Pranayam.
(…)"

Long time will have to pass until we will become pure creatures of light, though. Ages. We are still stuck in these things, sadly. In time we will focus more on liquids, then slowly we will give up on all food and live thanks to energy and light. We’re going to blossom one day. We're going to be one.

I wish i could find this indian which lived for years without any food/water. He meditated most of the time and fed with light. This. This.

posted August 26, 2014 12:19 PM            

As for the intestine comment I feel its biased and presented in a biased way and I am sure there are more plausible explanations for humans having longer intestines. To start with the text you provided mentions nothing about how humans intestines are divided into TWO sections:

"In humans the intestine is divided into two major sections: the small intestine, which is about 6 m (20 ft) long,...; and the large intestine, which has a larger diameter and is about 1.5 m (5 ft) long,..."

Humans are herbivores and Carnivores but yes we are suppose to have a diet that is higher in alkaline but we also need the meat is just the western world relies too much on meat but that does not mean meat is bad for us; organic meat is very nutritious. What it means is that we dont eat enough vegetables.

posted August 26, 2014 12:38 PM            

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amelia28:
Tigers and lions eat alive other animals which is not humane at all! ALIVE. Also they don't pray or thank god for the meal after.

As for the intestine comment I feel its biased and presented in a biased way and I am sure there are more plausible explanations for humans having longer intestines. To start with the text you provided mentions nothing about how humans intestines are divided into TWO sections:

"In humans the intestine is divided into two major sections: the small intestine, which is about 6 m (20 ft) long,...; and the large intestine, which has a larger diameter and is about 1.5 m (5 ft) long,..."

Humans are herbivores and Carnivores but yes we are suppose to have a diet that is higher in alkaline but we also need the meat is just the western world relies too much on meat but that does not mean meat is bad for us; organic meat is very nutritious. What it means is that we dont eat enough vegetables.

As for the religious leaders you mentioned I know plenty of people who are VERY spiritual and have amazing healing abilities who eat meat; that is biased bc you are only focusing on spiritual leaders who chose to be vegetarians; a decision probably influenced by their own culture and religion they grew up in.

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Hey amelia), I agree with you Though tigers and lions and the other carnivores alive are not the same souls like us. At all. There is a huge vibe/spiritual level difference between us. We have more consciousness, we have another role in this life. We are not THAT animalic, in the past we were, but we evolved. we have a MUCH higher purpose, yet we still have some roots in this Earth, yes. But we can go BEYOND, some do, some don't. We can remain in that stage though, nose shut, ears shut, eyes shut. It's not hard at all.
imo,

LEVEL 1 : SPIRITS OF PLANTS
LEVEL 2: SPIRITS OF ANIMALS
LEVEL 3: SPIRITS OF HUMANS
LEVEL 4: ANGELS, HIGHER ENTITIES, etc

posted August 26, 2014 12:39 PM            

I forgot to mention that if you get use to not eating meat you wont like meat and if you get use to not eating vegetables you will not like vegetables hence WHY so many people in the western world don't eat vegetables often; they got use to an acidic diet. Hence someone filling disgusted by meat after committing to not eating meat again does not mean that a strict vegetable diet is superior.

posted August 26, 2014 12:47 PM            

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Originally posted by ilunatique:

Hey amelia), I agree with you Though tigers and lions and the other carnivores alive are not the same souls like us. At all. There is a huge vibe/spiritual level difference between us. We have more consciousness, we have another role in this life. We are not THAT animalic, in the past we were, but we evolved. we have a MUCH higher purpose, yet we still have some roots in this Earth, yes. But we can go BEYOND, some do, some don't. We can remain in that stage though, nose shut, ears shut, eyes shut. It's not hard at all.

LEVEL 1 : SPIRITS OF PLANTS
LEVEL 2: SPIRITS OF ANIMALS
LEVEL 3: SPIRITS OF HUMANS
LEVEL 4: ANGELS

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I don't think we are more evolved than animals, we assume this bec we are measuring this with human standards limited by our three dimensional reality. I am also not convinced that plants are Level one for the same reason. I just think everything is beautiful and equally of value and sacred and there to help all living things survive and to ensure there is balance as too much of a species can disrupt everything.

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Originally posted by PixieJane:

'Course then that opens more cans of worms since predators are an important part in keeping a natural balance, and removing predators is a good way to destroy foliage as those who eat it overpopulate and then they start dying horribly of starvation (or other problems). Sometimes what's ethical just isn't the same as practical or even wise.

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posted August 26, 2014 12:51 PM            

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Originally posted by amelia28:
I don't think we are more evolved than animals, we assume this bec we are measuring his with human standards limited by our three dimensional reality. I am also not convinced that plants are Level one for the same reason. I just think everything is beautiful and equally of value and sacred and there to help all living things survive and to ensure there is balance as too much of a species can disrupt everything.

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Plants and animals belong strictly to this planet. But hell yeah, they can be more evolved than us. There is no absolute truth. But we can go beyond. We can do much more. We are a bigger tool in here.

I don't believe that the soul of a leo for example is judged up there. No. He does what he is programmed to do. He does not evolve spiritually. He does his thing. Survive. Same to the rest of the animals. Circle of life. Over and over again.

BUT
WE DON'T JUST DO THAT. WE HAVE OUR OWN LESSONS TO FULFILL IN ORDER TO BECOME HIGHER ENTITIES LIKE ANGELS ETC ETC. It's like a videogame. But if you want to, you're free. Be an animal like that. Go live in a bush and eat stray cats if you want to/care only about the materialistic world, close your eyes to everything. Spiritual evolution promised.!

Wake up to your higher selves people, pretty please . You're more than the Mcdonalds menu. You're more than your body. You're more than the image of a stained stranger. You're more than the working executive, CEO or just whatever. You're more than you. You're a soul, and you're a heck of a great soul to be here in this great forum among other evolved people. Just open your eyes, hear, ACKNOWLEDGE. Even planets are more than themselves. Venus isn't just rock. Venus is also beauty and feminine energy.

BTW, last comment

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Lets see if you still uphold this strong belief if you are in the woods surviving or in a complete different environment that is not like the superficial convenient set up we all have the luxury of having now.

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True, true, but this is how the animalic part of us shows up and screams at us : SURVIVE! It's our surviving instinct. We no longer are the same in those moments. We go back to our earthly roots. We have to just survive. Heck, screw the rest. I'll eat your wife too. Wait for Jimmy to bring some spice and sauce.
We are divided in this half animalic, half more conscious/spiritual and filled with so much possibility of spiritually evolving in something wonderful. But we have to shut ourselves like this and WITH these things such as meat etcetc.

posted August 26, 2014 01:02 PM            

I choose free range eggs and I don't buy at KFC but really this choices are not stopping the problem of animals been killed inhumanely.

Perhaps this could be a start and a point we can all agree we want to strive for helping achieve.

posted August 26, 2014 01:10 PM            

I dont belief in Angels and I dont think god is like humans; I think God just is. God is everything and does not judge; it just is; its everything.

But this is just heading towards a spiritual philosophical debate for which we might as well start a different thread for.

posted August 26, 2014 01:13 PM            

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Originally posted by amelia28:

Replying on your first comment. What I want is a world that kills ALL animals humanely so they don't experience stress; that is my personal ideal. Its why I try to eat organic but not everyone can afford this and this days neither can but I try when I can.

I choose free range eggs and I don't buy at KFC but really this choices are not stopping the problem of animals been killed inhumanely. Perhaps this could be a start and a point we can all agree we want to strive for helping achieve.

TBH I respect people's personal choice of not eating meat but what rubs me the wrong way is when your personal choice makes you feel superior bc this topic is very complex.

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Oh yes, i want a world like that too. But it will take ages until humans will wake up to these things.
Speaking about organic...we're so polluted and lied nowadays that I don't know if the vegetables are much better either...! Pesticides, dirty ground, genetically screwed up crops, the energy of the person which does the work/harvests... It's so complicated and sad.
a better world will come though, one day.

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I dont belief in Angels and I dont think god is like humans; I think God just is. God is everything and does not judge; it just is; its everything.

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God is love... God is everywhere.. in all of us.. this is a contradicting subject filled with complications

posted August 26, 2014 01:23 PM            

I was reminded of this quote:

posted August 26, 2014 03:03 PM            

Its pointless trying to explain people what higher consciousness is because they just can't conceive of it because evolution will not allow them to become it. until they are ready, they can't perceive.

The truth about God, is for God to exist, you have to become God. Gd doesn't eat animal flesh. Being a vegetarian is actually cheaper than being a meat eater. We can plant out own gardens and live happily ever after.

And there are absolute truths. They are universal truths. One absolute truth is that in our true nature, we are immortal and perfect.

posted August 26, 2014 03:47 PM            

I don't believe in god, so that whole part of the argument is irrelevant to me.

posted August 26, 2014 03:57 PM            

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Originally posted by athenegoddess:
Ilun,

Its pointless trying to explain people what higher consciousness is because they just can't conceive of it because evolution will not allow them to become it. until they are ready, they can't perceive.

The truth about God, is for God to exist, you have to become God. Gd doesn't eat animal flesh. Being a vegetarian is actually cheaper than being a meat eater. We can plant out own gardens and live happily ever after.

And there are absolute truths. They are universal truths. One absolute truth is that in our true nature, we are immortal and perfect.

Humans are the most evolved because we have the ability to become God. Tiger eats meat because tiger is an Animal and has animal consciousness. Can the tiger become God and ascend? No.

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posted August 26, 2014 04:35 PM            

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Originally posted by T:
I'm enjoying the conversation here. great points amelia.

I was reminded of this quote:

I used to believe a lot like you do ilunatique. I'm happy that I don't anymore and have let much of that go.

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Very nice quote T. Thanks for sharing

posted August 26, 2014 06:27 PM            

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Originally posted by athenegoddess:
Ilun,

Its pointless trying to explain people what higher consciousness is because they just can't conceive of it because evolution will not allow them to become it. until they are ready, they can't perceive.

The truth about God, is for God to exist, you have to become God. Gd doesn't eat animal flesh. Being a vegetarian is actually cheaper than being a meat eater. We can plant out own gardens and live happily ever after.

And there are absolute truths. They are universal truths. One absolute truth is that in our true nature, we are immortal and perfect.

Humans are the most evolved because we have the ability to become God. Tiger eats meat because tiger is an Animal and has animal consciousness. Can the tiger become God and ascend? No.

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posted August 26, 2014 06:50 PM            

if you are already God why aren't you performing miracles and healing the planet? You think Jesus woke up one day and was able to do what he did so easily? He worked for what he achieved and we can too.