posted May 15, 2009 07:46 PM         

SURA LII:24

"And there shall wait on them [the Muslim men] young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls."

SURA LXXVI:19

"They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth, who will seem like scattered pearls to the beholders."

Homosexuality was never looked down upon even when Mohammed lived. It was the christian britishers who condemned it because it was in the bible.

I bet all the gays of America would convert their religion (from atheism to islam , or from christianity to islam) overnight if they knew that Hahaha...

posted May 16, 2009 12:02 AM         

And Christians who hate gays are interpreting the Bible correctly. The Bible is full of intolerance, advocates violence, and worse. Under certain circumstances, even rape is allowed by the Bible. Eating shrimp is also forbidden, interesting enough.

However, many Christians are either unaware of those parts of the Bible, or just tune it out (quite a few stopped being Christian after taking a closer look at what their Bible actually said). That is to say, they're not good people because of the Bible, but in spite of it. Hateful or loving, they pick and choose which parts to pay attention to and which parts to ignore.

I'd say that about Muslims, Jews, etc, as well.

posted May 16, 2009 12:37 PM         

cleanliness is next to godliness because keeping clean helps keep you healthy and strong - and live longer thereby...

posted May 17, 2009 12:03 PM         

quote:

---

Muslims brought death and plunder under their rule in India?!

---

Its a matter of fact , not an opinion.

There are realms of literature on the Holocaust like phenomenon - one of which is the book above.

quote:

---

Did you all of a sudden forget the prosperity that India gained during the Mugal rule?

---

Which was never democratic or secular mind - the Hindus who converted to Islam did so out of resignation to the Mughal covert manipulations.

Instead of outright 9 - 11, the campaign against non - muslims in India by the Mughals was of an arm - twisting nature.

The Mughal rule was NOT democratic or secular in terms of its economic benefits to its citizens.

I find it very ingenous on your part to skip that in your praise of our economic development during the Mughal rule.

And its not the common man who amassed enough cash to build the Taj.

Or chop off the hands of the workers who did it.

quote:

---

Islam, women have the right to own property, to divorce at their own will and choose (yes... CHOOSE) their own husbands.

---

Lets be practical.

What is the difference between Theory and Practice ?

How many muslim women divorce their husbands at the whim of 3 worrds and get to stay alive in the middle east ?

Its certainly doesnt happen here in India - nor has it ever.

Women are not allowed by their families in 99 % of the cases to seek our legal provisions when it comes to family matters.

Its Sharia all the way.

Polygamy ?

No problem, you DONT get to say the 3 words and free yourself like your husband would.

You get to brave family and society threats to yourself if you are dumb enough to ask for a divorce.

Which in most cases being financially dependent on your hubby would be a no brainer.

Husband beating you ?

No problem.Same as above.

Father in law raped you ?

Sorry , you are no longer your husbands wife.

Oh....and your rapist goes scott free.

And the above HAPPENED a few years ago .

Our legal system was asked to go for a hike with no room to help the woman because the muslims operate the sharia law in India and our penal code is a JOKE as far as such victims are concerned.

The woman above lost her marriage and kids AND got to marry her Rapist, her father in law.

ALL AS PER THE PROVISIONS OF ISLAMIC LAW.

Go figure.

And say - isnt the fact the muslim women have a RIGHT to family property the MAIN reason why they are bullied into marrying their cousins ?

As in forced into convenient Incest.

It doesnt take brains to figure out THAT was an afterthought to the whole EQUAL RIGHT to Property - added to stop family property from leaving the MEN hands.

Are you telling me all these women CHOOSE INCEST over a marrige of love because they have a right to do so , without any family influence ?

Gimme a break for laughing

And how many muslim women actually exercise their so called " rights " as 10 yr old married to paedos ?

Dont tell me that doesnt happen.

quote:

---

Any other given practice associated with the region is culturally based.

---

Yes - but here a religion retains and spreads the choicest , most repressive aspects of the culture of its origin to everywhere it goes ,as if it were a part of religion.

posted May 17, 2009 12:07 PM         

M- is a muslim debating non - muslims over marriage age and paedophilia.

----------------------------------

MP says:
I'm making Charlie have a lot of doubts in his own faith.
MP says:
He's gonna leave Christianity soon.
MP says:
He can't maintain belief any longer in the Trinity.
MP says:
Yeah.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
He's been asking me about aliens and reptilians.
PM says:
He's been telling me how much of an idiot you are to believe in these things but not God.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Meh. Whatever. But according to him I shouldn't be lest God smite me to hell. lol
MP says: http://www.aztlan.net/casa_alianza.htm
MP says:
Child pedophiles and pornography supported by the Jewish divisions in America.
MP says:
And are Jewish themselves.
MP says:
No wonder the peculiar, uncanny looks of these girls.
MP says:
They all look somewhat Jewish.
MP says:
Remember, anyways, that pedophilia is ALLOWED in the Torah (Tanak and Talmud).
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Yeah. I know.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
The tractate of sanhedrin says you can **** a three year old
MP says:
Considering they accuse the Prophet Moses and his army to kill ALL of the Midianites EXCEPT the "women/girls who have not yet known men".
MP says:
Of course, the only way they could ascertain this was to "look inside" each and every girl.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Midianites...I was just going to mention them
MP says:
And our prophet Mohammad keeps being accused of pedophilia when they have it EXPLICITLY in their book.
MP says:
(Because he married Aisha when she was nine years old and consummated the marriage at that age.)
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
That is pedophelia by today's law.
MP says:
Maybe, but the real definition of pedophilia is the psychological mental state of being attracted to prepubescent children.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Nine years old is just that.
MP says:
You didn't read what I said.
MP says:
"Psychological state of being attracted to prepubescent children"
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Nine is not pubescent.
MP says:
According to who?
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Nature.
MP says:
Read any women or medical textbook on the subject of female puberty,
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
So you're fine with an adult ******* a nine year old?
MP says:
Puberty sets in as early as nine years old for females.
MP says:
Whereas it's as early as eleven for males.
MP says:
No, I wouldn't be "FINE" with an adult "******* a nine year old".
MP says:
But I am FINE with the defined Islamic Law of marriage that is permissible FROM the onset of puberty,
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Your prophet was.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Okay so you don't mind an adult ******* a ten year old then. Is that it?
MP says:
No, of course not.
MP says:
But do you consider that to the same case when that ten year old is married?
MP says:
I don't think you'd call married couples "******* ".
Mars Prince says:
lol.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
You just implied by the logic of Islamic law that consumating a marriage with a ten year old is alright since puberty hits girls at nine.
MP says:
Let's keep this straightforward and LOGICALLY simple.
MP says:
In Islamic Law, marriage is permissible from puberty and ONLY from puberty.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
But you said puberty begins at nine. So age ten is in the window of opportunity therefore.
MP says:
So, if a girl acquires puberty in her young age (9, 10, 11, 12, etc) than she is legally able to marry in Islam.
MP says:
And so is the guy.
MPsays:
That's what Islamic Law states.
MPsays:
And there's no "******* " involved; it is marriage.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
But that doesn't prevent a 20 year old from marrying and having sex with a nine year old.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
marriages are to be consumated.
MP says:
Exactly.
MP says:
And I just told you, the Prophet consummated the marriage with Aisha at the age of nine.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Well then my logic proves it's okay for fully grown adults to **** children that are half their age.
MP says:
Why are you using the word "**** "?
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Making them get married doesn't make such an age difference acceptable.
MP says:
I am talking about the law regarding marriage.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Why are you dodging my point.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
And I am talking about how it's a loophole for pedophelia.
MP says:
You are twisting my point by using another terminology.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
No I'm not. We're using the same english language.
MP says:
It's not a loophole for pedophilia, how can it be?
MP says:
If it was, I'll tell you first.
MP says:
I'm not defensive of my religion to the point of denying the truth.
MP says:
Aisha and EVERY other girl in Islam must give her consent before marriage.
MP says:
After their parents let them.
MP says:
So how can a pedophile (assuming he's a Muslim) have sex with a young girl?
MPsays:
If he has to marry her first, which means after she reaches puberty,
MP says:
And after her parents' and her consent are taken?
MP says:
You tell me.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Because marriage is acceptable to someone who has gone through puberty. Girls who are nine have gone through puberty. Girls of ten can be married to someone twice her age. Marriage is to be consumated with sexual itnercourse. The conclusion is inescapable: Sex with incredibly young girls is sanctioned.
MP says:
You're making it sound like we let any 20 to 60 year old dirtbag **** any girl 9 years old.
MP says:
Or fornicate, that is.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Well that does seem to be the case given my above argument.
MP says:
Your conclusion has removed the conditions, which preclude the possibility of pedophilia!
MP says:
What's wrong with you?!
MP says:
A pedophile is a guy who molests children, by criminal terms, or who is attracted to very young girls in psychological definition.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
You said that today's law is different from islam ic law. So under today's law, a 20 yaer old marrying a ten yera old and ******* her is pedophelia.
MP says:
He is not someone who is going to propose to my daughter.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
That is part of the definition of pedophile.
MP says:
And if he was, I'd pretty sure reject his offer.
MP says:
You're going back to using that term "******* ".
MP says:
Do you mean fornication or marriage?
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
having sexual intercourse.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
We use different words/phrases but mean the same thing; sexual itnercourse.
MP says:
Let me put it this way.
MP says:
As I've told you before and many times, in Islamic Law, you are ABLE to marry (and THEN have sexual intercourse) from the age of puberty.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
And that includes girls that are nine and ten since they hit puberty early.
MP says:
You can put your own standards or minimum age, but that's the rule we go by.
MP says:
Yes.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Sex with children.
MP says:
You are twisting my words again.
Mars Prince says:
Children = prepubescent people.
MP says:
Check the dictionary.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
That's not the law.
MP says:
A girl who reaches the age of puberty is a teenager.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
You just contradicted yourself.
MP says:
And she, as with so many nine and ten and eleven year olds, can get pregnant.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
A nine year old is not a teen.
MP says:
A nine year old is a child, according to you? So even if she reaches puberty and develops the biological functions of an adult?
MP says:
In our law, you are an adult by the age of puberty.
MP says:
Not a child.
MP says:
In America, 14-year-olds are treated like children, I do know that... Then when they get pregnant, what do their parents THEN treat them as?
MP says:
Oh, even a nine year old, when she gets pregnant, you still really think she's a child?
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
"Son, we have democrats. Democrats write laws and tell us what we can and can't say and do in the workplace." "Isn't that fascism?" "No because we don't call it that."- South park tv show. "The law says that a child is aged seventeen and anything below." "Our religion says we can have sex with a nine year old." "That's sex with a child. "No because we don't call it a child." It doesn't work
MP says:
Even biologically?
MP says:
CHILDREN CAN'T HAVE CHILDREN.
MP says:
A nine year old who can get pregnant is not a child.
MP says:
Whether you believe it or not.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Yes she is.
MP says:
We consider her an adult and we consider her better for marriage than to be raped alone out of the dark or taken advantage of by some stranger.
MP says:
I will say this one more time, Drew-J, and I know by God I have defeated your arguments, and I will leave it at that: CHILDREN CAN'T HAVE CHILDREN.
MP says:
You are an adult by the age of puberty and that is Islamic Law (and I think also Biblical, too).
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Obviously they can. Don't use linguistic gymnastics on me.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Well those laws are ****** .
MP says:
And my law is Islamic Law, not government perverted changing hypocrisy.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
They say we can have slaves and kill others.
MP says:
A century ago, the minimum age of marriage was much lower than 18 in the Western world.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
And thankfully, people smartened up.
MP says:
And you are precisely appealing to ****** laws.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Because they knew poor girls could get taken advantage of.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
So you think it's ****** that people in the west can't marry and **** ten year olds? What kind of libido do you have there buddy?
MP says:
They don't let girls marry early before someone out of the blue rapes them and then murders them by the river.
MP says:
And this will keep happening until your ******* country will be destroyed by God.
MP says:
Excuse me if I'm using a red herring, but you know Oprah Winfrey's website has a special section on abducted and (raped/murdered) children.
MP says:
Every month, no less, according her statistics a child is abducted.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
So God's mad at the west for raising the legal age of consent?
MP says:
And the US law has done nothing to stop this onslaught.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Show me in the law books where it says that you can **** kids?
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Why is it that men are falsely imprisoned for child rape? Because our society tries to punish it that's why.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
So you can ignore my rhetorical quetion there.
MP says:
Geez, you pull out more red herrings than I did.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
No, I answered your question about Oprah. I proved you wrong when you said the western legal system doesnt' care about child abduction and child abuse.
MP says:
I didn't say it doesn't care, I said it's not stopping the crimes.
MP says:
And I implied that the law is actually worsening it.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
No one said the justice system is omnipotent.
MP says:
Oh, by the way, I don't support any one of any age ******* any one else, but I do support couples who marriage from the age of puberty with their unforced consent.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
We've been tough that.
MP says:
Anyways, all I can do is pray for the children in America.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
So you admit that Islam allows sex with nine year olds? And then you pull a linguistic maneuver and say that a nine year old is not a child and say, "There. All better."
MP says:
It's a very good thing rape is much lower in Islamic communities.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Need I refer you back to Oprah who has tales of middle eastern women being raped?
MP says:
Maybe you should start lowering the age of consent, if that's what it seems like to you.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
That's like saying the solution to the problem of murder is to make it legal.
Mars Prince says:
Middle Eastern women being raped? I'd like to see if she can report an incident where it involved a "child".
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
We were talking about rape in general. Not a specific age group.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Read your own words. "It's a very good thing rape is much lower in Islamic communities."
MP says:
And I didn't pull out linguistic maneuvers. If children can have children in your definition, then that makes absolutely no sense.
MP says:
But if you like to perceive it that way, I know I already told you what a child is in our definition.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
This is a problem with language itself. It covers up the fact that a 20 year old can **** a nine year old.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
"Well we don't call them a child. There. Problem solved."
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Well not really I say.
MP says:
You keep using the word "**** ".
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
And I mean it as a word for consentual sexual intercourse.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
You know that. Pick bigger battles.
MP says:
Drew, with all due respect, you've been playing with the language all the time till now.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Nope. Just your language. Criticizing your definition of child.
MP says:
And pardon me for being so dense, but I'd be the last person -- as such a virgin that I am -- in the world to understand what the hell "**** " means.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
I just told you how I use it and how millions of other westerners use it.
MP says:
I'm pretty sure there are Westerns who'd take cultural and terminological differences into account.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Yeah. the pedophiles.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
They'd gladly accept islamic definitions since it legitimizes and whitewashes what they do.
MP says:
But if you really think that the US law for marriage is better than the Islamic Law, then no problem... But, that's not gonna stop nine year olds from getting pregnant. It will keep happening until greater strictures are applied, or the law stops underestimating them.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Or at least their urges.
MP says:
And children also don't have raging hormones.
MP says:
Nor would they develop sexual attractions.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
If I saw some guy trying to rope a 9 year old into marriage, I'd blow the whistle as loud as I could.
MP says:
What about a fifteen year old?
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
If a fifteen year old ***** another fifteen year old, that's cool with me.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Their both minors.
MP says:
...There's that f- word again.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Don't make me repeat my definition.
MP says:
Which itself renders such a constructive, academic argument impossible.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
I've already given it to you twice.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Not if you know the definition.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
If you know the definitions of words, a discussion can proceed.
MP says:
F- is a vulgar word... very vulgar... very ambiguous too.
Mars Prince says:
Because it can be applied to all couples, as well.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Speaking of red herrings...
MP says:
And I would never ever say the Prophet or any one else in general used to "**** " his wives.
Andy - "Yeah, I know." says:
Because you don't use the same definition of '**** ' as I do. Since you know my definition, you needn't keep harping on my use of the word '**** .'
MP says:
It's not appropriate in an academic or fruitful argument, and way not appropriate when we're discussing secular and religious law.
MP says:
Argument withdrawn.

----------------------------------

I read this on another forum - Xodian , i cant vouch for the facts concerning Islamic law mentioned in here. I posted it so maybe you can point out if there any errors. ?

posted May 17, 2009 02:28 PM         

FACT:

Isn't it true that in illict parts of india, divorces wives are thorwn right on the pyre funerals of their husbands? That they are required to shave their heads that continue to keep a life of chastity and not marry another man? Would you call that Liberal?

FACT:

During the Islamic rule, women wre given MORE rights and were treated as equals. Fact of the matter is, most people converted over to Islam BECAUSE it offered equal opportunity for business proceedings, property ownership, reduced outlaw activities and introduced a stronger more civil society; Combined with technological growth and trade opportunities. Heck if it weren't for the Muslim Mughal rule, India wouldn't even have had an impact upon the East as the central Asian trade and military power.

Look upon historical events again on the developement of Rajistan, The rule of the Caliphat on the Janjira district. The place was nothing more then a fishing village with accounts of babaric rituals conducted against women and children only to have been converted into a more fortified defentable fortress by Ambar who made sure that it was the economic center of the region. From there on, he introduced libraries, hospices; He even made it a outward right of every individual to gain knowladge.

Now to address your given views on practice:

- I already told you what Islam teaches. Cultural values differ from Religious teachings. People who want to commit attrocities will find any excuse to do so. In practice, Muslim women in Canada for instance have had more success in completing post-secondary education and moving on in gaining respectable job posts. Heck, statistically, Muslim men and women are more likely to gain post secodary degress here in Canada.

quote:

---

How many muslim women divorce their husbands at the whim of 3 worrds and get to stay alive in the middle east?

---

Huh?! Are you insinuating that women in the Middle East who DIVORCE their husbands get killed?

Maybe you need to read this:

http://www.jannah.org/sisters/distort.html

Cultural shame because of divorce and Religious rights are two different things. What is written is written.

99%?! Where the heck are you getting these statistics from?! In most cases; They are ENTITLED to that property funds; And in most cases, the courts find rulings in favour of the wife.

Recent case of a young 14 year old divorcing an injust marriage union from a perverted 50 year old would be a good example (that douche...)

quote:

---

Yes - but here a religion retains and spreads the choicest , most repressive aspects of the culture of its origin to everywhere it goes ,as if it were a part of religion.

---

My goodness... I have to say then, I have more respect for hinduism then you Miss Venus . I don't interlock the idea of maditory burnings of divorced women on their husband's funeral pyres a part of hinduism as practiced by the sane population of India .

And this given person who just gave the required posts where he actually THINKS that Islam allows marriage of young girls AGAINST their wills is an obvious testimony of cultural confusion with religion. Which forum did you get this transcript from?