posted May 11, 2009 04:30 AM         

I, personally am neutral as far as Islam is concerned though like any religion there are aspects of it i find unacceptable - notwithstanding many friends and acquaintances are muslim and as far as i am concerned considered separate from their religion.

I hope the same consideration is observed by the members that the following excerpts offends.

Nevertheless - this book that claims to expose the political campaign that hides behind the garb , or facade of Islam , makes some very hard to disprove points .Points that all of us, irrespective of nationality need to compulsorily make ourselves aware of and consider - given today Muslims are on their way to outnumbering all religions globally .

That and everywhere in the world, we are faced with the fear of terrorism , perpetrated by Islamic fundies on us - irrespective of race and religion, money or status.

Last November - i learnt that dining in a restaurant is something i cant assume will not leave me dead - gutted through an inch of my life with bullets by a stranger - just becoz i happen to be in a restaurant with my loved ones.

Here is the news piece that i read today about a ban on this expose - that got me intrigued with the book.

quote:

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http://98.131.121.41/Etc/India-Supreme-Court-Lawyer-Needs-Help-to-Lift-Ban-on-B ook-on-Islam.htm

Mr. M. R. Bhasin, a Supreme Court lawyer in India, has written a number of books on Islam and Hinduism. In the early part of 2007, he published a book entitled “Islam – a Concept of Political World Invasion by Muslims.” In March 2007, a group of 20 Muslims approached the Maharashtra government to ban the book. Immediately Maharashtra government banned the book denying the rights of a Hindu writer to express his view and document the atrocities of Muslim rule in India.
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/index.aspx?page=article§id=2&contentid =2009051020090510033842376a0edd8e5

To take an informed decision on the legality of a Maharashtra government ban on advocate RV Bhasin’s book Islam - A Concept of Political World Invasion by Muslims, Bombay High Court judges have called for an English translation of certain aayats (verses) from the Quran referred to in the book.

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Here is the key to the muslim outroar over the truth exposed by this book

quote:

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Every Hindu should read this book on "ISLAM - A Concept of Political World Invasion by Muslims". It describe nearly ten centuries of the atrocities of Muslim rule in India and the passages that support the terror and violence. Even the judges in High court are surprised at the extent of cruelty the Muslims caused to Hindus.

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Only in today's age - instead of Hindus its anyone who happens to be a non - Muslim.

posted May 11, 2009 04:36 AM         

Here are some bits that are apalling

quote:

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Islamic theology is strongly tied to its root of converting the entire
world into one Islamic society and according to it, this alone is the
correct road to final world peace. It does not accept any other road
thought by man equally good to emancipate hinself. Islam is therefore
totally opposed to any other theological idea. In this context, it not
only challenges the world society by being intolerant but it sanctions
violence as an accepted notion to wage wars that are called Jehads
against the non-believers. Islam divides the human society into two
clear halves. Those who believe in the basic tenets of Islam and those
who do not. The Islamic faith begins with Muslims accepting the only
declaration which is

LA-ILLAHA, MOHD. RASULALLAHA
(There is only one God and Mohammed is his Prophet)

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quote:

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It is unmistakably stated in Quaran that the entire world is to
be comsidered divided in two camps, 1. Those who belive and owe their
allegiance to Islam. They are the Muslims or the believers 2. Those
who do not owe the allegiance to Islam and who do not accept Mohd as
the Prophet sent by Allaha with his message as contained in Quaran and
Hadiths. Once a Muslim by faith or choice the is not thereafter ever
permitted any freedom to walk out of it. Those who do not believe as
above are the non-believers. They are termed as the Kafirs. What is
not in accordance with the dictations in Quaran and Hadiths is called
Kufr A true Muslim is ordained to convert the entire world society
into the society of the believers and to encleavour to totally
[u]exterminate the society of the non-believers termed as Kafirs. [/u]What is
not in accordance with the clictations in Quaran is termed as Kufr.
The Muslims believe and are ordained by their holy religious texts to
eliminate Kufl- and the Kafirs from the surface of the earth. Any
bloody war that is fought by the believers against the non-believers
carries the religious sanction of Islam, the literal meaning of which
is peace, it 6-penly 'directs the Muslims to behead the Kafirs and to
lay their lives to exterminate Kufr even at the cost of their own
lives. It is one of the three Semetic faiths that supports violence to
spread the message of God amongst the humans. The other two religions
are Christianity and Judaism.

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posted May 11, 2009 04:41 AM         

quote:

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ISLAMIC JEHAD OR TERRORISM

To wage a holy war called Jehad is amongst the basic
principles advocated strongly by Prophet Mohd. According to him, there
does not exist any chance of world peace unless the world as a whole
is converted into Darul Islam. He has himself unabashedly announced
the division of the world into two camps of believers and the non-
believers. Similarly, the Islamic religion does not abhor violence,
but on the other hand, openly justifies and directs its believers to
rely on their strength that is intended to be used for the anihiliaton
of the people who resist such a violent attack on their own faiths or
religion.

On reading of a recently published book in English by one
Brigadier Malik "Quaranic Concept of War", one learns that Jehad for
Muslims is the direction of Allaha to destroy the non-believers
totally. It is not at all necessary that those directed to be killed
be first found as being guilty of something like violating human
rights. This itself, according to the book, is a sufficient offence,
not to be a follower of Islam. According to the author, Allaha
promises heavens to the Muslims who proceed to wage a Jehad and
indulge into destruction of humans not owing allegiance to Islam.
Allaha freely sanctions by his divine authority, murder of the non-
belivers and cruel treatment to them. He further permits the Jehadis
to put into their own use even the married women of the opponents and
treat the children of the vanquished opponents as slaves or at the
pleasure of the Jehadis. There is no Quaranic diction or any direction
in any Hadit to take non-believers as the prisoners of war. Such
captives, because of their non-belief and offer of resistance, is
itself a sufficient sin to be beheaded under the sword of the
believers.

Prophet Mohd. himself has gone to record to say that he
lives on the loot of such properties that belonged to the non-
belivers. He entitled himself to Male Ganimat and is on record taking
captured women in his harem. Even a son, by the name of Ibrahim was
born out of one such woman by the name of Moria. But he died when he
was very young. In order to truly understand the psyche of the
Muslims, one must look at this book's contents that clearly advocattes
spread of terrorism in the world for promoting the cause of Islam. One
therefore need not wonder as to what happened on 11th Sptember, 2001
in New York when the Islamic terrorists destroyed the two buildings of
World Trade Centre and attempted to attack the central military H.Q.
buidling of the United States of America located at Washington (DC).
According to the author, terrorism and spread of Islam are ordained to
march hand in hand in order to destroy the opposition and to frighten
those who do not subscribe to the thought of Allaha as stated by Mohd.

Terrorism according to Brigader Malik is an essential
weapon that must be used before Jehad is commenced if not for anything
else but to demoralize the nonbelievers in Islam. A foreword to this
book is provided by the ex-President and Military General of Pakistan
who was Zia-Ul-Haq. He died in an air crash. Even the present dictator
of Pakistant as the President of the country has announced the state
policy of Pakistant to support Islamic Jehadwhenever and wherever
fought. One can therefore see an integral bond between Terrorism and
Jehadthat finds its first source of origin in the holy book of Quaran.

Islam and terrorism cannot be separated. This is
discovered from the pages of History. It is therefore important to
understand the Muslims psyche who hold faith in Terrorism that in turn
goes to support the concept of war or Jehad.
The ideology of Islam
therefore is less of any human religion based on the need of welfare
of the world of humanity.
It is really a political campaign of Islamic
invasion of the entire world and unless this is finally achieved, the
believers are religiously ordained to wage a Jehadand are permitted to
take support of Terrorism.

ISLAM IS THEREFORE A CONCEPT OF POLITICAL
INVASION OF THE WORLD BY MUSLIMS
LET THE WORLD NATIONS AND ITS LEADERS TAKE NOTE OF IT

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posted May 11, 2009 02:51 PM         

quote:

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There is only one God and Mohammed is his Prophet

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posted May 11, 2009 03:27 PM         

somewhere and more than once i have heard that the qu'ran preaches tolerance for other religions? anyone found that part? it doesn't really jibe with all this jihad-is-the-cornerstone of islam stuff...but i have never had the patience to read the qu'ran, yet.

posted May 11, 2009 03:37 PM         

b) Read the following verses. Its so ironic that people go about labling Muslims as Anti-Sematic yet the Quraan is one of the few Holy Scriptures that acually praises the accomplishment of Jews.

The Qur'an is the only non-Jewish scripture in the world where Jews have
been honored and protected in so many places (2:40, 2:47-52, 2:57-58,
5:20, 5:44, 10:47, 10:90-93, 14:6, 17:2-3, 20:47-52, 20:77-80, 44:30-32,
45:16, etc.),

posted May 11, 2009 04:41 PM         

well, i don't know enough about the koran (sp) to know it what vdl is saying is true or is not. i imagine jews are honored protected praised and respected in the bible also.

i guess a person doesn't really know what they are being taught unless you really took the time to read the teaching materials or attend their services.

i tend to believe what vdl posted. it jives with history. of course there are extremest in a lot of religions, so they could be being taught something and take it out of context.

it seems a lot of people with mental illness and or bi-polar type depressives and socail personality problems gravitate to certain religions and use it way out of context and for evil in the name of god allah or whatever. A LOT. hear voices, god made me do it, or become to the point that they use the words completely out of context to do horrible things that hurt other people.

posted May 11, 2009 07:15 PM         

One learns best from the horses mouth, so any insights you may share of Islam helps us all understand and find the correct references to the discussion.

juni

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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted May 11, 2009 08:12 PM         

And you can to read the Koran but don't be addicted to the words and become a fanatic. It was never penned down by Mohammed himself but by someone else sitting besides him. When enlightenment happens the expression of each one is so unique. His was marvellous but read and appreciate it and move on.

Mohammed's followers has twisted his words and seem to be forever locked in 8th century. They never allow new thigs to happen to that religion. Its the same old , same old. God is a continuous flowing river. No one can contain it.

Most of his practical teachings just don't apply to the world we live in today. For example Mohammed allowed a man to marry 4 woman in his times. Why? In his time those uncivilized men were always at war with each other and killing each other for land and sheeps and God knows for what else. There were therefor more woman than men . Therefore he allowed men to keep many wifes. God didn't allow this. How can he? He is not a person in the first place. It was all Mohammeds say on how they should live in his time.

In the 21st century (Is Biden listening? It started in 2001), the situation is different. Some preserved words of Mohammed is great. But many were misinterpreted and it continues till this day.

Better than Islam is Sufism. But Sufism is still imagination of the mind in that he wishes to meet his beloved. And even better than Sufism is Zen. Yes.. Sufism though beautiful and wise and beautiful and deep poetry is still not the truth. And certainly not the way of life for 21st century. Zen is.

But each one must discover it for oneself. Just as Buddha said 'Be a light unto yourself.' And then share it with others.

posted May 12, 2009 02:16 AM         

cpn i have never heard of a "big" religion that didn't have its assassins and schemers - i am sure the jews, christians and muslims are not exceptional.

posted May 12, 2009 09:06 AM         

If you look that way then even the toll collector is guaranteed to retire with a nice security nest in our state. And the roads were supposed to be toll free long ago LOL.

posted May 12, 2009 12:46 PM         

Some take up a religion that are like lakes, and some like rivers, and some like ponds but they all ultimately join the ocean.

The word 'only' creates a fight in the world. Only prophet. Only son.

posted May 13, 2009 10:04 PM         

'Course, given what happens to girls that don't adopt the line, who can blame them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo6uRwwnFH0&NR=1

posted May 14, 2009 08:06 AM         

------------------
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted May 14, 2009 10:22 AM         

Islam DOES NOT places Polygamy as a sacred right; There is just no mention in the Qurran that Polygamy is not allowed. It was a Cultural practice (as Mannu pointed out, being essential to the time) that just has been carried out to this day. Yet that's the first thing people jump onto to critisizing the given religion and when the divide is made, they won't wanna hear any of it... Typical.

Honour Killings again are CULTURALLY based practices. Most of these given victims aren't even given a trial or have witnesses backing up their side of the story; All of which is MANDITORY under Islam.

And what makes me even sadder is the fact that people are under the assumption that Islam is a backwards religion. Heck, taking historical records of how Islamic regions prospered you will actually find out the fact that they prospered dur to INNOVATION and NEW DISCOVEREIES. Heck its because of the innovation of Muslim scientests that Chemistry, Algebra, Astronomy and like evolved; It is manditory for ALL Muslims to better their given scoeities and to aquire knowladge and education. Its a SACRED RIGHT of all Muslims and therefore the Taliban and the like who decide to subdue Muslim girls from aquring education are committing an "Unislamic" deed and therefore can't call themselves Muslims.

posted May 15, 2009 06:29 AM         

quote:

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Dervish; Look again: Iqra TV is a Begali based program that started off on the right foot but was later banned in Saudi Arabia due to its extreme "unIslamic" teachings. Look at the comments made on the youtube videos posted; There are ACTUAL Muslims out there refuting the claims made by the given shows.

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Can you show how this show was banned for extreme & hateful stances?

I saw comments, but a couple here & there are hardly convincing. Worldwide Muslims have committed atrocities and the silence is deafening (as opposed to like how Christians around the world spoke out in protest to what Serbian Christians were doing). I've encountered--and been threatened with rape and death in one case--by such Muslims, too.

Islam had its golden age, but it was destroyed, probably by the Mongol invasion, and remains for the most part in the Dark Ages. Christianity, while barbaric itself and having a very bloody history of its own (with scary modern trends), was tempered by the Age of Reason.

I'm not saying that they're all evil. I'm sure many aren't. But there is a very scary trend at large there, and I believe that brushing that aside and choosing to only see the good is not only foolish, but dangerous. And I'm aware that the Koran and Sullah (whatever) have verses that advocate living peacefully with Christians & Jews, BUT when I kept on reading, there were conditions put on it, and it basically meant that they were to be tolerated as long as they lived in submission to Islamic law, however that was interpreted. There were many other verses that promoted violence against unbelievers and those who did not live by the Koran, too. Examples:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html

posted May 15, 2009 10:35 AM         

Funny how no one talks about this:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0502/p01s04-wome.html

Look at the verses again. The violence again "non-believers" is only astuted under STRICT conditions. Its only to be instigated if the given party threatens and attacks your given land and your way of living. Surprise surprise, isn't it what the Taliban are being attacked on upon these days by NATO?

We are all well aware of the violence extremism causes. Saudi Arabia itself had to defend its grounds against terror attacks three times (Hey... Having a well trained counter-terrorist unit helps .) Don't you think its illogical that a country would support the actions of extremists who in turn end up blowing apart the country itself? I doubt it. Furthermore, Saudi Arabia itself is reversing quite a lot of its archaic tribal laws. The law condoning forced marriage was torn down since its been deemed unislamic and the right to divorce has been given more strength.

And no the tolerence wasn't upon the subjigation of Islamic law; but REGIONAL laws as they were; The same way how being a Canadian Muslim or an American Muslim means that you are to abide by the bylaws, rules and regulations that come with the responsibility of being the citizen of that country. Simply put; Live and let live in peace. If anyone starts something then you have the right to defend yourself.

posted May 15, 2009 11:13 AM         

And that idea , from Quranic translations seems to have been the foundation stone of Islam - to convert or kill.Islam itself means submission and here the ones who are to submit or be forced to submit are all non - muslims, as per quranic translations by muslims and non - muslims .

I know , majority of the muslims i know are the peace loving type who dont care categorise humanity in the balck and white slot based on to convert or kill.

But - what is undenied is that , THAT is the whole idea in the first place !

And has been so acted upon in my country in the last 1000 years with utmost brutality - not even sparing women and children.

Do you know ALL Muslims of indian origin were hindus who were converted to Islam by the threat of Death. ?

Hell - this should interest the women here.

Hindu society was far progressive and liberal towards women , we were allowed to be priests, choose our own partners, be home schooled, work and make our own money and so on.

Around early 1100's we got invaded by muslim rulers of Mongolian and Middle eastern origin who were Muslims as described above, who settled down here and became rulers of a major chunk of thye sub - continent.

They not only converted hindus by force.

They destroyed the Hindu culture's liberal treatment of our women.

The muslims were by LAW allowed to take by force any woman they saw walking down the street as wife - all they had to do was take her away by force , which was allowed by the muslim leadership.

To protect their daughters Hindus had to adopt the PURDAH !!!!!

Until then - we have no archaeological evidence of women having to cover their faces

Until then women didnt lead closeted lives in the 4 walls of the house with the men having to earn the living . Until then a farmers wife worked by his side, an iron smiths wife worked by his side and a grocers wife worked in the shop with him.

THE MUSLIMS DESTROYED ALL THAT !!!

And our men ended up oppressing their women because the other option was either get picked up and legally raped ,

Or even worse, get married to a barbaric, wife beating muslim and be converted to Islam !

The Muslims RUINED our culture to an extent unrecognisable - hell our homes didnt have doors until they came along !

In many parts of India women actually only covered the lower half of their body , and stayed topless with a stole around their necks occasionally.

Thats not to say promiscuity was mainstream - marriage and family were still the rocks of society and the only non - marital sex was with prostitutes.

Until the Muslim invaders came along , to abduct a woman and rape her was not just crime - the Hindus considered it a sin that sent one to hell and the culprit would be BEHEADED !

And the Quran has passages where Mohammed says its okay for a muslim to rape the women of infidels whose men have been defeated in battle !!!

Where our women were given the right to walk out of marriage without the need for a priest or anyone else to permit her a Muslim woman has NO choice out of an abusive relationship.

The past 10 centuries of Muslim cultural corrution of the Hindu culture and its balance between liberalism and conservatism are enough proof of what i have posted.

posted May 15, 2009 11:35 AM         

quote:

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Do you know ALL Muslims of indian origin were hindus who were converted to Islam by the threat of Death. ?

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Not according to history.

http://history-world.org/islam7.htm

Essentially, most people converted over to Islam because it was economically good for them.

Conversion to Islam also linked these centers, culturally as well as economically, to the merchants and ports of India. The Muslims ruined Indian Culture? Heck if it weren't for the Muslims, India wouldn't even have had the means to launch effective defenses against pirates, babarian hordes, and open up trading ports with the world.

Or do you guys take monuments like the Taj Mahal, or the Victory gates just for granted .

You talk about Women Liberties yet you obviously did not mention that under Islam, women have the right to own property, to divorce at their own will and choose (yes... CHOOSE) their own husbands. Any other given practice associated with the region is culturally based. That would be like saying that Polygamist sects of Christianity represent Christianty as whole. Gosh I hope not.

And in truth, Women are NOT supposed to cover their faces enitrely. The Nikah is NOT manditory... Heck its even blashphemic to wear the Nikahduring holy days. The Hijab and the Nikah are two distinct and different things.

I am not gonna deny attrocities some men commit during invasions and wars. That is always a shame.

posted May 15, 2009 12:14 PM         

i find it interesting that here we have an actual muslim trying to tell us the basics and the misunderstandings regarding the religion and no one wants to hear it.

there are fundamentalists of ALL religions spreading throughout the world today. does anyone here think the american insistence that iraq have "democracy" and "self-rule" is a little OFF? that israel is not an agressively Jewish state?

i worked for five years for a (christian) lebanese lawyer. his wife was a muslim! she left lebanon to get away from her exhusband who - not because of his religion - would not accept that she wouldn't live in the mountains like a nomad chieftain's wife. she had no problem living in a christian country with a christian husband and in many ways showed more kindness and love to those around her than any of them...

this was one of the kindest, most charitable, educated, intelligent, FORWARD-THINKING women i have ever met. she left lebanon only because of the war there and the aforementioned husband.

there are ALL KINDS of muslims as there are christians, jews, hindus etc. the fact that one sector of said population is using their religion as an excuse doesn't mean the religion promotes mass murder!

there are muslims in england now who insist on being able to hold their own shari'i'a (sp?)courts outside of the british law! this has caused an uproar. despite the fact that the english colonized many muslim countries and imposed british law on the inhabitants. personally i agree there should be one law in a country, those who immigrate should assimilate at least in terms of public behaviour. but there is a fine line between religious freedom and lawlessness in some cases.

as long as we attribute people's craziness to their religion we will have no understanding of what is going on. there are christians right here in the usa who consider it an ABOMINATION to be gay. does that mean the christian religion teaches this? no, it teaches tolerance and love for EVERYONE. tell that to the preachers and see how far you get.