posted September 10, 2009 11:41 AM         

Duly noted.

I disagree.

I think my behavior is justified.

And if I continue to post about this,
its because others do, too.

posted September 10, 2009 12:52 PM         

quote:

---

You just carry on offending meat eaters, vegetarians and vegans alike then, as this thread and the 50 others you started has demonstrated.

---

Valus posts to offend, not to create positive change. The more they offend, the more satisfied their ego is.

posted September 10, 2009 01:58 PM         

and when you argue with reality you lose, but only all the time.

posted September 10, 2009 02:00 PM         

I did the lacto ovo vegetarian thing for 9 months. I felt weak on it. My mom and my Aunt Dominga thought I was getting skinny. I even felt more depressed to the point that I thought about being a monk. My weight dropped. My hair thinned out a lot. I am like...forget this....I will go back to eating meat again. So I started eating chicken again, and that was pretty much it. I didn't have any urge to eat meat either. I was worried about my health.

My brain feels a lot stronger since taking fish oil and cod liver oil. I really need the Omega 3 fatty acids. I have taken flaxseed oil,and it has no effect on me. It has Omega 3 fatty acids, but it has no DHA and EPA. I have problems converting ALA into DHA, and so flaxseed doesn't do it for me.
I extensively read about Omega 3 fatty acid deficiencies and their connection to Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,and ADHD which I have.
The brains of neurodivergents tend to be very active. For example, research shows that Dyslexics use almost 5 times more brain area when doing simple language tasks. That means that they are burning a lot more Omega 3 fatty acids including DHA. 60 percent of the brain consist of fat,and most of its DHA. DHA is is in the eyes too. Algae and sea animals are said to be the only sources of DHA. Many humans can't absorb DHA from the algae. Algae doesn't contain EPA though. That's in aquatic animals.

There is some belief that eating fish is what helped human brains evolve.

I don't see anything wrong with what Stephen posted and that includes the pictures. He's only expressing his views like everybody else is doing. He didn't offend me when he posted those pictures. I am an honest person. I will tell you straight up when I saw those pigs, I was thinking pork and ham.
Let me say this. In Sacramento, I live in Oak Park area which is a predominantly black area. There is a soul food restaurant here, and they serve pork ribs which is one of the major food items in soul food. Yeah..I like pork ribs. I like hamhocks which is another soul food entree. I like eating ham sandwiches. I also like Mexican food,and I like chicken burritos. I like linguica, Portuguese sausage. I love it on pizza. I have to admit that the gourmet veggie pizza at Round Table is actually my favorite pizza. I like the garlic sauce that it has on it. I always love eating cheese on my pizza. I like breakfast burritos made from chorizo, a Mexican sausage. I eat a lot of pasta with chicken too. My mother told me that before I was 2 years old, I could eat a big porkchop too. Eating meat was no problem for me. As a kid, I did like hamburgers...especially charcoal broiled hamburgers. I also drank a lot of milk growing up too.

just because Stephen's posts are controversial and stir things up doesn't mean that they are wrong, but that doesn't meant that they are right either. Everybody doesn't agree on everything. Everybody doesn't like the same things. We have diversity when it comes to thoughts,beliefs,views,likes,dislikes,etc. I believe that there is nothing wrong with that. Tolerance of diversity seems to be the problem. However, even that view is relative. Everything is relative imho. Look at Astrology, we all have different views in regards to what Astrology is,how it is used,and what methods work.

I understand Stephen's passion about veganism,vegetarianism. He's advocating for something that he believes in. I have been passionate about neurodiversity and raising awareness and understanding of neurological/learning differences,psychiatric misdiagnoses,and school system that makes our types look learning disabled because I know from personal experience. Negative things have happened to me in regards to those things, and I want to help others like myself. I want to prevent the same things that were done to me. Even though, I don't believe that neurodivergents should be medicated, I don't say that it's wrong. I don't go around telling parents that they are wrong for medicating their children. That's not my place,and I would like to avoid arguments because they can get too intense. However,they can easily be offended just by my stating that I don't believe in medicating. To them, that's like saying that medication is wrong and what their doing to their kids is wrong. I have been called "stupid" and other negative things just because I expressed my view of ADHD as not being a disorder that needs to be medicated. I had other disagreements with people who believe that there is no such thing as ADHD too. I have disagreed with both ADHD believers and ADHD disbelievers. My belief is that ADHD is a novelty seeking,outside the box,unconventional type of nature that doesn't doesn't conform to the mainstream society.

So who am I to judge Stephen for being very passionate about veganism,vegetarianism? Even if he compares eating meat to condoning killing Jews and even slavery. He's not doing anything different from PETA who compared the abuse/eating of animals to the holocaust and even African slavery which definitely led to controversy. I understand that PETA wasn't being racist. They don't compare Jews and Blacks to animals because of a view of Jews and Blacks being inferior. No...they are trying to make a point that animals are equal to humans as fellow creatures. I get it. That's their views. That's the views of vegans and vegetarians. I don't really share their views. Obviously a lot of creatures that eat creatures don't either. Tell a shark to stop eating animals in the ocean. Tell a lion or a tiger to stop attacking animals or even humans in the jungle. They don't care. Spiders don't care when they eat flies. The way I see it, we're the top of the food chain. That's just my opinion. We can easily be food for certain animals.

All these are just my views. I don't claim to know anything nor have truth.
With retrograde Eris in Aries in 8th sextile Midheaven in Gemini, my Eris sextile/trine Lunar Nodes in Aquarius in 5th/Leo in 11th, my Sun conjunct South Eris Node in Scorpio in 2nd,my Venus quincunx Eris in Right Ascension,and my Moon semisquare Eris in Right Ascension, I have to do my best to respect,accept,and tolerate diversity of views. That's why I even go an interfaith unity church. I can't stand any type of dogma. I understand that so many things in life can be questioned. Heck..I question mainstream Astrology, but I also question about scientists having all the answers. I am skeptical of some New age things, but I am skeptical of organized religion. I am person born of racial diversity as the offspring of black man and white woman. I question matters involving race relations. I have disagreed with both whites and blacks when it came to race relations issues. I believed that there are black racists and white racists. Political dogma bothers me. I have disagreed with both liberal and conservative conspiracy theories. I question things. I have always been like that since I was taught to think in words. I was reading mythology at 11 years old, and I wondered about organized religion. I learned about theory of evolution in 7th grade, and I stopped going to church shortly after. I probably had both past lives of persecuting Christians and persecuting pagans. I probably had past lives as both a Spanish inquisition torturer and a witch burnt at the stake. I got annoyed with some Americans for their attitudes about foreigners,but I also got annoyed with some foreigners with their attitudes about Americans.

That's how I approach this whole veganism/vegetarianism, meat-eating thing.

There are condescending,self righteous,patronizing meat eaters that give vegans,vegetarians a hard time and think that their diet is the best diet and that they are right and the vegans,vegetarians are wrong. There are condescending,self righteous,patronizing vegans,vegetarians that give meat eaters a hard time and think that their diet is the best diet and that they are right and the meat eater's are wrong.

It's all relative. It can all be questioned. There can be truth on both sides from each other's point of view.

things can be posted to support veganism/vegatarianism and some things can be posted to support meat eating.

Things that are considered to be objective can be actually subjective and vice versa.

This is all my opinions on the matter.

Matters involving the opinions of right or wrong seems like an Eris thing. That is something that Eris' co-discoverer,Michael Brown pointed out about the mythological Eris.

Discord isn't a bad thing if it creates one to strive,think outside the box that leads to solving a problem,challenge the old order and establish a new order,reform,civil/equal rights

but that again is relative.

if look up the word, "eristic"

e·ris·tic (-rstk) also e·ris·ti·cal (-t-kl)
adj.
Given to or characterized by disputatious, often specious argument.
n.
1. One given to or expert in dispute or argument.
2. The art or practice of disputation and polemics.
[Greek eristikos, from erizein, to wrangle, quarrel, from eris, erid-, strife.]

eristic
1. a participant in an argument or controversy.
2. the art of disputation. — eristic, eristical, adj.
See also: Argumentation

Noun 1. eristic - a person who disputes; who is good at or enjoys controversy
controversialist, disputant
individual, mortal, person, somebody, someone, soul - a human being; "there was too much for one person to do"
contester - someone who contests an outcome (of a race or an election etc.)
accuser - someone who imputes guilt or blame
arguer, debater - someone who engages in debate
denier - one who denies
hairsplitter - a disputant who makes unreasonably fine distinctions
logomach, logomachist - someone given to disputes over words
obstructer, obstructionist, obstructor, resister, thwarter - someone who systematically obstructs some action that others want to take
quarreler, quarreller - a disputant who quarrels
crusader, meliorist, reformer, reformist, social reformer - a disputant who advocates reform
2. eristic - the art of logical disputation (especially if specious)
artistry, prowess, art - a superior skill that you can learn by study and practice and observation; "the art of conversation"; "it's quite an art"
Adj. 1. eristic - given to disputation for its own sake and often employing specious arguments
eristical
argumentative - given to or characterized by argument; "an argumentative discourse"; "argumentative to the point of being cantankerous"; "an intelligent but argumentative child"

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted September 10, 2009 03:50 PM         

in any moral dilemma or debate such as this, there seems to be an extreme position that is taken that sets the perimeters, which enables all views to fill in the space not covered, and the nuances to be explored (at least ideally with an underlying spirit of kindness toward one another). so i honour valus' bravery and, it could be argued, the LACK of ego involved in putting himself on the line. he knows some of you may now think less of him, but he doesn't care because that is not the point. without his setting the perimeters with his extreme stance, this discussion would not be taking place.

there are hundreds of known health benefits to eating vegan. and there are 'evidences' to the contrary. the underlying point that valus (and i) are trying to make is that he is horrified at being made aware of the insane degree of animal cruelty taking place on this planet at every given moment. and how unjustifiable this is. how WRONG it is. and he is trying to make others aware too.

that is an extreme position which i happen to agree with it. it's the bottom line. it's WRONG to knowingly contribute to suffering. and i'm not fond of the word 'wrong' in general.

sure valus is pompous and self righteous and even tends to be somewhat myopic in his thinking (but aren't we all, at least secretly?, otherwise we'd have no convictions at all). but he's right about this. people need to be aware and it needs to stop.

there is a fine line between a hero and a scapegoat.

him being right, though, doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. we are all on our human journeys and we all have our reasons for believing what we believe and doing what we do, which seem right to us. it takes an extreme position delivered with a certain amount of force to gather enough momentum and bring the attention to the bottom line: the unjustifiable suffering. which i'm SURE most meat eaters put out of their minds. an experiment would be for each meat eater on this thread to watch earthlings or look at a picture of an animal being hacked to death (while alive! and writhing with all its might, unable to protect itself) while eating their meat fares, each and every time meat is consumed. that seems fair to me.

posted September 10, 2009 03:53 PM         

your approach is gracious and kind. it touches and warms me!

posted September 10, 2009 03:58 PM         

aahhhh,,,,not so much...

but since you suggested it how about puking babies with diarreah just prior to sex...i am sure that would cut down on unwanted pregnancies.

posted September 10, 2009 04:42 PM         

I have Mars in Aquarius that disposits my Sun,Mercury,and Venus in Scorpio. I use co-rulers, and Mars and Pluto are co-rulers of Scorpio. I also have the Lunar Nodes in Aquarius in 5th/Leo in 11th. My Vertex/Antivertex in Aquarius in 5th/Leo in 11th. I have major asteroid,Vesta in Aquarius in 5th. My Uranus in Libra in 2nd oppose retro Eris in Aries in 8th, trines/sextile Midheaven/Imum Coeli in Gemini/Sagittarius, trine/sextile Lunar Nodes,and sextile Ceres in Leo in 11th. The heliocentric Uranus Nodes in Gemini/Sagittarius are in my 10th and 4th houses square my Ascendant/Descendant axis in Virgo/Pisces.

In the constellations (not the same as Sidereal Zodiac):
My Moon and Mars are in Aquarius. My Moon is in both an alignment (conjunction by projected ecliptic longitude)and culminating paran with Alpha Aquarius star, Sadalmelik. It is also in a true conjunction to the Aquarius star, Ancha (the hip of Aquarius).

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted September 10, 2009 05:20 PM         

quote:

---

it means valus is more brave, however.

---

I don't see how causing conflict and arguing proves bravery. I don't respect people who argue just to feed their ego. That doesn't seem brave, just self-consumed.

posted September 10, 2009 07:05 PM         

quote:

---

sure valus is pompous and self righteous and even tends to be somewhat myopic in his thinking (but aren't we all, at least secretly?, otherwise we'd have no convictions at all). but he's right about this. people need to be aware and it needs to stop.

---

Woah city, but that is exactly what i do NOT understand. in this thread and the others too, is anyone saying that what he promotes as good is WRONG? and yes, i think it is exactly that people are offended by his "pompous and self righteous and even tends to be somewhat myopic" nature of bringing about his points. at least i am.

maybe it's just me but in this thread and the other money thread too, i keep posting not because i am concerned of what he raises the point about (like right now, i'm not really caring about the vegetarianism at all), but because i wish he would not talk in a certain manner. with both the topic what i did was fundamentally "yes i agree it is how Valus puts it, and this is what i think additionally". and he takes it as an offence that i didn't shut up about what i think too and didn't applaud him to his stardom. and i think he realises too, he keeps saying these are the threads started by him and he wants to have it his way. anyone showing their own opinions, whether it's essentially agreeing or not, get talked down on as "people without the capacity of thinking outside of their frames (which just equals to not being able to think with his brain)". he only applauds people who says nothing about what they think and say "Valus is saying a great thing". it's all about him and how considerate and heroic he is and how everyone should "convert". from what i've seen, although he does not openly admit, he fancy himself as a new Messiah. he sounds a bit delusional to me.

anyway, i did not want to bring out this tone of speaking, Valus. i really don't want to sound aggressive, just that "i" felt aggravated and i wanted to ask you not to do that to me. but you refuse to hear how i was made to feel and just keeps the attitude, "well sorry but i'm right". and i'm not saying all this because you bring out such "controversial" issues, but i'm simply disturbed by your attitude in general. and so as many people who's been speaking out, the main reason your threads grow into pages isn't because you successfully bring the "brutal truth people refuse to face", but just because you offend people with non-related factors. again, Valus, it's great how you try to be conscious and aware of these things, if it feeds your ego to hear that. but i still insist that the images and some of the tactics you use, you have no right to bring that upon me or anyone else who doesn't want it, no matter how convinced you are that you have the mission to save the world and any method you choose are granted by god. maybe you disagree, but it's undeniable that you do make that impression, even if you don't mean it that way. sometimes it's a good idea to observe what many others see you as and incorporate that into your "project" or whatever, to make people listen to what you really want to tell (in this case, vegetarianism) and not get side-tracked by other factors. there are ways to "present ideas" to people without hurting them. maybe i get you wrong on this point, but, you may be able to figure out much effective ways to "bring messages across" if you travel a bit, live in other countries and continents, explore a bit... but maybe i'm being a bit pompous here, i don't really know where you live and what you have done in your life.

posted September 10, 2009 08:28 PM         

quote:

---

If you never thought about it, if your environment is not condusive to that kind of lifestyle, if you have a lot of peer pressure to be a certain way, then shocking works better.

---

Stephen, if you really want to have a positive effect to reduce or eliminate the inhumane treatment of animals, why not do some >>>actual work<<< with people like this??
http://www.animalfreedom.org/english/information/doityourself.html

What kind of positive action have you taken on your pet topics (like this most recent one) that would REALLY affect those “abuses” that you are so intent on “enlightening” everyone about?? Yes, you’ve possibly touched a handful of people at an internet forum, but what about out there in your real world?? For instance, have you helped in any small way to make adoption easier??
OK, the movie Earthlings was a presentation of an awful injustice. WHAT are you going to do about it besides write (somewhat stridently I might add, with fanatical fervor), tsk tsk you people are wrong, you mustn't do that??

quote:

---

If this stuff doesnt interest you, or you disagree with my tactics, then why participate?

---

quote:

---

I thought you could respect that. Guess not.

---

Now, are there 30 reasons to become a vegetarian in this thread?? I'm interested in a list of 30 reasons, not the Missionary's Position

posted September 10, 2009 08:33 PM         

"Did I suddenly end up on the set of Clockwork Orange?? "

posted September 10, 2009 10:23 PM         

The Ascendant/Descendant nodal axis Scorpio/Taurus is in opposition to the heliocentric Mars Nodes in Taurus/Scorpio and the heliocentric Mercury Nodes in Taurus/Scorpio. retrograde Jupiter in Aquarius squares all that.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted September 10, 2009 11:01 PM         

quote:

---

I think my behavior is justified.

---

According to the new agreed upon LLC T & C, its not. We agreed as a collective that we will keep LLC free from controvertial and inappropriate content, and try to act a bit more civil around here. Or do not not remember the little out of control flame war that happened not too long ago. The member in question started the whole incident on the same premise as you; The given member throught that it was her right to proclaim to the forum members on how spritually blind they are, and this this forum is full of shady characters. Your given tactics and posts are heading in the same direction. If you really do care about adrupt and open answers to your topics, you will atleast attempt to follow basic "Net etiquette" and inform your potential viewers accurately about the content you are about to put up in your posts (I always do it. If I think that the content I am about to put up may not be suitible for children, I let the members know about it and place the link of the given image/video instead of hotlinking it.)

Furthermore, this forum isn't the place for politically related debates (as yes this is a political issue as much as a spiritual one.) So if you REALLY want open answers to your topic you would have put this thread in the GU forum where there are no set rules on the content being posted.

posted September 12, 2009 12:02 PM         

More on the subject of actually doing something instead of just talking, why not petition Congress to do more to cleanup slaughterhouses and factory farms?? Start your own petition:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/

posted September 12, 2009 12:42 PM         

Good idea on the petition. I've been doing some of that already, but that's a good one you suggested. I also concur with the notion of actually doing something and not just talking. So many of us talk about being compassionate, loving and respecting animals, etc., but how many of us have stopped torturing and killing them? Something to think about. I disagree, though, that I am forcing anything on anyone. I'm here at my computer, posting my point of view. Forgive me for saying so, but, if you feel controlled by that, it has more to do with your weak will than any actual imposition on my part.

As for my "snarky" response to "T", she was asking if I was just trying to be annoying. I think that is pretty snarky, and I was only responding to her attack (with some ironic truth). Likewise, so many of the insightfully provocative things I've said are responses to people's shallow provocations of me. I'm arguing for animal rights, -- passionately opposing the torture of gentle, innocent and defenseless creatures, -- and then they come in here and make it personal, -- so, yes, in my frustration, I respond provocatively.

Musette and lechien,

All this talk about ego... isn't it always the people with the densest egos who talk and talk and talk about other people's egos? What has happened to the world? Rational discourse is a luxury when it is allowed to happen. Mostly, if people disagree with you, or your passion, they immediately resort to personal attacks and accusations about your motives, etc. Its sad. I want to believe there was a time when people gave each other the benefit of the doubt, and actually debated issues, rather than personalities. Its amazing to me. People come in here with no intention of discussing the topic, and only to pick a bone with me and my personality. Sad, sad, sad.

posted September 12, 2009 01:37 PM         

Before I errupt in glowing praise for so much of what you wrote, I have to correct a false impression you have of me.

quote:

---

sure valus is pompous and self righteous and even tends to be somewhat myopic in his thinking

---

I can understand how you and others would get the idea that I'm pompous and self-righteous, but, in reality, I'm just cheeky and honest. If you could hear my tone of voice, you'd know its not really pompous or self-rightoeus, but playful and provocative. Then there is the honesty. I dont mince words or beat around the bush. I say things that I know will appear incriminating in some people's eyes, and the fact that I dare to say those things may give the impression of self-righteousness, but, really, its just merciless honesty, with myself and others. As for the myopic thinking, I can't imagine how you arrived at that conclusion. I am taking a firm stance on this issue -- one of the few issues that I do take a firm stance on, but that doesnt mean I cannot see the objections. I just think, like you said, that I need to take an extreme position and leave it to others to mitigate it as they will. “Extreme remedies are very appropriate for extreme diseases.” (~ Hippocrates) In general, though, I would say that my thinking is very far from myopic, as would be expected with a 12th house Mercury. My field of interest is very wide, -- even paradoxically so. And my thinking is often nuanced to the point of ineffectuality. I am capable of holding the most divergent ideas in my head at the same time, and recognizing their relative validity. This is not a boast, but a fact, asserted only in defense, that you might know me better, and not believe or assert something about me which is untrue.

quote:

---

...i do not push my views on people or argue with them about it, in real life. that's cuz i am not fond of conflict. it doesn't mean i'm right. it means valus is more brave, however.

---

Well observed, although I doubt that I am braver in a general sense, -- just braver in the context of debate. I don't like conflict either, whatever others (who dont know me) may imagine about that. I like honesty and I like things to be up front. I like to put my cards on the table, even though I'm not fond of having them read unsympathetically. I accept the conflict as a necessary evil. Really, I want to raise awareness about this stuff and I believe the only way to do so is to be a little provocative; which I would call unmitigated honesty, and some others would call aggression.

quote:

---

in any moral dilemma or debate such as this, there seems to be an extreme position that is taken that sets the perimeters, which enables all views to fill in the space not covered, and the nuances to be explored (at least ideally with an underlying spirit of kindness toward one another).

---

Precisely. But what we need to understand is that the truth, as an ideal, is always extreme. How we come to practical terms with it, according to our human frailty, is another matter. I have a lot of tolerance and understanding of people's human frailty, which prevents them from adopting a vegan diet, but, I am not about to pervert the ideal truth, or pretend that human frailty is not the reason for meat-eating. Although I realize that such statements are upsetting to some people, it really is not my intention to upset them. That, again, is a necessary evil. What is most important is that the truth gets spoken and heard. Feelings get hurt along the way, and that's unfortuneate, but its not the most important thing. The hurt feelings in these threads cannot possibly compare to the agony suffered by animals. And nobody who makes the (conscious or unconscious) choice to torture and kill animals (as meat-eaters do) has a right not to be confronted about the consequences of their choice.

quote:

---

without his setting the perimeters with his extreme stance, this discussion would not be taking place.

---

Yes. They may balk and whine and ridicule me, but, at the end of the day, they read what I had to say and somewhere, if only in the bowels of their subconscious minds, they are thinking about what they heard, and wondering if they are doing the right thing. Call it self-righteous, but that's what I believe.

You can make them talk
if the serpent has stung them.
You can make them talk
if they're struck by an evil planet.
But you can't make them talk
if they're stuck dumb
by riches.

Yet, when Poverty the magician enters,
they'll speak at once,
O lord of the meeting rivers.

posted September 12, 2009 01:38 PM         

quote:

---

so i honour valus' bravery and, it could be argued, the LACK of ego involved in putting himself on the line. he knows some of you may now think less of him, but he doesn't care because that is not the point.

---

Thank you. Its nice to be seen. This conflict, and the insults directed at me, ties my stomach into knots and fries my nerves. Its hard to be diplomatic when my character is being attacked (for the flimsiest reasons) from almost every side. I hate it. And, though I know people won't believe it, my empathy is so acute that I see myself through their eyes, and, yes, it hurts. Not only that, but I feel compassion for them, and frustration at the lack of communication and understanding between us. But they dont believe that. They think I'm lying, deluded, ego-driven, etc. I wish they would see the good, and see the efforts I do make at diplomacy -- even when I risk sacrificing my ideals; something that is intensely, personally painful for me. If they saw me as I am, I think they would like me. I really do. But we disagree on this matter, and I disagree passionately, and for some people that is enough of a reason to hate me and imagine all sorts of despicable motives for me. Say la vie!

quote:

---

there are hundreds of known health benefits to eating vegan... the underlying point that valus (and i) are trying to make is that he is horrified at being made aware of the insane degree of animal cruelty taking place on this planet at every given moment. and how unjustifiable this is. how WRONG it is. and he is trying to make others aware too.

---

That's the bottom line, however people may see it as just a means to express my inflated ego and stir up trouble. If they had understood Scorpio, Sag, and Aqua energy, they might be able to understand my motives. They would know that these signs are motivated by a strong sense of justice, and a willingness to arouse conflict for the sake of a higher resolution. Let them watch "Earthlings", -- let them dare to watch it; the bravest among them, -- and then they will not fail to understand my motives; my indignation and frustration. Let them even think for a moment of these animals and what they suffer. Let them imagine their own pet dog or cat in place of those pigs and cows, if that's what it takes to awaken their empathy for these creatures, and then they cannot misunderstand my passion. Then they'd have to understand.

quote:

---

that is an extreme position which i happen to agree with. it's the bottom line. it's WRONG to knowingly contribute to suffering. and i'm not fond of the word 'wrong' in general.

---

And people say they do not disagree. They say "we agree its wrong to contribute to suffering", and then they continue to avoid a course of action which would prove their compassionate assertions, and to argue that what is done to these animals is right. Talk about myopic. Talk about contradiction, delusion, denial, blindness. And I say so. So I'm the bad guy. LOL

quote:

---

he's right about this. people need to be aware and it needs to stop.

---

Amen. Or at least take the issue seriously. Its amazing to see the juvenile jokes that people make about this stuff. They can't even see that its a serious issue. An animal is mistreated all its life, and then killed in a horrible way. And they make jokes. hahaha :eyeroll:

quote:

---

there is a fine line between a hero and a scapegoat.

---

You said it. Not me.

quote:

---

...we all have our reasons for believing what we believe and doing what we do, which seem right to us. it takes an extreme position delivered with a certain amount of force to gather enough momentum and bring the attention to the bottom line: the unjustifiable suffering.

---

Yes, again. And I believe that, whatever we see here on the surface, I am reaching people and making them think. Oh, sure, they'll never admit it to an unyeilding, "pompous jerk" like me. But they are thinking about it. Even if its only subconsciously, they are thinking. The truth is always heard.

quote:

---

which i'm SURE most meat eaters put out of their minds.

---

Yup.

quote:

---

an experiment would be for each meat eater on this thread to watch earthlings or look at a picture of an animal being hacked to death (while alive! and writhing with all its might, unable to protect itself) while eating their meat fares, each and every time meat is consumed. that seems fair to me.

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Me, too. Fair is fair. Well, actually, fair would be if they agreed to live their lives in a tiny box, fed sh!t, beaten, and finally slaughtered with a knife to the throat. That would be fair. They should sign that contract, and then they would be entitled to eat the equivalent of one pig or one cow. Actually, that still wouldnt be fair, would it? Unless the pig or cow signed the contract, too.

quote:

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if ya can't stomach it, don't stomach it, no?

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Brilliant simplicity there. Amazing that they still can't see the truth of it, even when you state it with such flawless clarity.

posted September 12, 2009 02:04 PM         

I gave you a lecture a few posts ago as to why your given actions were against forum T&C, I gave you better alternatives to it and I gave you the benifit of the doubt by letting a thread which by everyright can be called SPAM since you made like three similar existing threads all in the timeframe of three days and you could have easily kept it all shut with in the confines of one thread.

Furthermore, the given health benifits you speak of have been debunked by me with supporting scientific evidence and the sources you put up were also debunked by me on its lack of coherency and its faliure to accurately define true herbivores (most of the given examples your so called experts put up were of legitimate classified Omnivores.)

In short, all of what you have put up can't exactly be taken seriously. So in the end, your so called "shock tactics" are nothing more then an empty rebuttle, lacking both in substance and decency. Yet you had no answer to these posts and you went back the same predictable response of "I believe them to be true." Well then, you have no right to weep or play the victim when others give you a taste of your own proverbial actions.