posted December 01, 2011 09:59 PM            

it still stinks and it still costs %662 billion, a GREAT savings in time of economizing. bleuch!

they still have broken all international conventions and agreements on the way humans, even war criminals, are supposed to be treated.

posted December 02, 2011 03:58 PM            

note that we are exempt in one clause and apparently NOT in another?

The bill would require military custody of a suspect deemed to be a member of al-Qaida or its affiliates and involved in plotting or committing attacks on the United States. American citizens would be exempt. The bill does allow the executive branch to waive the authority based on national security and hold a suspect in civilian custody.
The legislation also would deny suspected terrorists, even U.S. citizens seized within the nation's borders, the right to trial and subject them to indefinite detention

posted December 03, 2011 08:00 PM            

careful who you cross your eyes at or cuss out...

as i recall it was so naive of obama to suggest that war criminals were entitled to due process - tho even the worst nazis got trials.

posted December 04, 2011 03:41 PM            

and pid, who now identifies herself as her husband's assistant, has nothing to say about it either. it is more important to point out that protesters are annoying and disruptive.

posted December 07, 2011 08:24 AM            

Someone thought of it 20 years ago, now it has come to fruition....

*military industrial complex

or, is this quote from your original link more on point?

quote:

---

This is how the 1% will protect itself from the 99% – by pushing for legislation that will allow US citizens to be arrested and held without charge indefinitely so as to protect their wealth. The 99% cannot possibly influence the Senate to oppose this insanity. This is why the 2nd Amendment is there – the right to bear arms isn’t so you can hunt, it’s so you can protect yourself from tyranny.

---

posted December 07, 2011 11:06 AM            

Now, when the pinhead, Janet Napolitano sent law enforcement all across the US a list of potential terrorist attributes which would assist them in identifying "potential terrorists" among us..."returning US military personnel, 2nd Amendment Rights adherents, sound money proponents, Constitutional Government proponents"...ect, ect, etc, there wasn't a peep from leftists that American citizens were being targeted by the pinheads, O'Bomber, Janet Napolitano, Holder and the rest of the shitteree of brain dead leftist morons.

None of our resident leftists could muster an ounce of outrage that the executive branch of government was slandering and targeting law abiding American citizens...as potential terrorists.

How come? Why is your outrage soooo selective?

Now, S.1867 is passed and leftist heads are exploding. There would have been no S.1867 if O'Bomber and his moronic Socialist pal Holder had not decided to read and apply American Constitutional Rights to terrorists captured on the battlefield. Who in the hell ever heard of trying enemy soldiers in civilian criminal courts?

It appears leftists have natural friends and natural enemies.

Those fighting against America are the friends of leftists. Converesly, those who would, do and did fight for America and those who demand the US Constitution be followed by government are enemies of leftists.

And, leftists wonder why Americans hold them in such contempt!

Nevertheless, Americans have come to understand that when leftists screech, howl, whine and shriek over an issue; the facts are far different than what leftists allege.

Text of final language of S.1876...passed Senate http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c112:2:./temp/~c112foI7oL::

Text of S.1867, Section 1032 (b) 1&2 http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c112:2:./temp/~c112foI7oL:e551744:

(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

posted December 07, 2011 01:15 PM            

jwhop, your memory is what is selective. i have been against all the rights-eroding facets of the patriot act since day 1. that includes naming those you mention as possible terrorists.

HOWEVER while those phrases you mention are in there...there are others that contradict them. the only thing US citizens and residents are exempted from is MILITARY prison.
((1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States}

the US homeland is still wide open for NOW LEGAL apprehension and detention of people without due process.

as udall pointed out “Section 1031 essentially repeals the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 by authorizing the US military to perform law enforcement functions on American soil. That alone should alarm my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, but there are other problems with these provisions that must be resolved...

you may not have realized that both nuremberg and geneva laid out terms under which even war criminals or enemies have certain human rights. these have not been evident in our treatment of terrorist suspects let alone "war criminals".

was it all right for our administration to "take out" an american citizen without any due process? this bill makes it okay. and one only need be SUSPECTED under a much larger list of bogus definitions than you mentioned, to be picked up and thrown away at the very least. maybe NOT in a military prison...big dif!

your apparent acceptance of this latest nail in the coffin of the bill of rights reminds me, i have nothing more to talk to you about.

posted December 07, 2011 02:36 PM            

For those, US criminal courts are the right venue.

Enemy soldiers and combatants..legal or illegal, non citizens of the US, captured off the shores of the United States or within SHOULD BE DETAINED IN MILITARY PRISONS AND THEIR FATES DETERMINED BY MILITARY TRIBUNALS.

All the screeching and howling is laughable.

No legislative act can override the protections of the US Constitution for US citizens..ie..5th Amendment right to due process of law.

The US Supreme Court...and every inferior federal court would strike down what you and others are howling about...in a flash!

I have come to the conclusion that leftists just aren't happy unless they have something to pi$s, moan and screech about. If nothing presents itself readily, leftists just make it up.

As for the Law of Posse Comitatus:

The Posse Comitatus Act
and Homeland Security
John R. Brinkerhoff
February 2002

"Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

posted December 08, 2011 01:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwhop:
Citizens or legal resident aliens in the United States who are plotting, planning or conspiring with al-Qaeda or other terrorist groups to attack America and Americans SHOULD BE ROUNDED UP, DETAINED, PROSECUTED, CONVICTED AND IMPRISONED.

For those, US criminal courts are the right venue.

Enemy soldiers and combatants..legal or illegal, non citizens of the US, captured off the shores of the United States or within SHOULD BE DETAINED IN MILITARY PRISONS AND THEIR FATES DETERMINED BY MILITARY TRIBUNALS.

All the screeching and howling is laughable.

No legislative act can override the protections of the US Constitution for US citizens..ie..5th Amendment right to due process of law.

The US Supreme Court...and every inferior federal court would strike down what you and others are howling about...in a flash!

I have come to the conclusion that leftists just aren't happy unless they have something to pi$s, moan and screech about. If nothing presents itself readily, leftists just make it up.

As for the Law of Posse Comitatus:

The Posse Comitatus Act
and Homeland Security
John R. Brinkerhoff
February 2002

[b]"Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

-Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 1385"
http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/brinkerhoffpossecomitatus.htm [/B]

---

posted December 08, 2011 07:01 AM            

And they will go missing. Before they prove their innocence through IP Address tracking [which a lawyer can arrange in a few days].

The people who protest against: Big Oil's price hikes, Nuclear Leaks, CDC, Fraudulent Vaccinations, denial of Right to Information, denial of Freedom of Press. And of course, the witnesses to crimes of federal agents, sexual crimes of politicians or witnesses of IRS bullying...

The same law can be used by "O'Bomber" to lock up the very supporters of this law if they decide to abandon his plans, should he get re-elected.

posted December 08, 2011 01:12 PM            

No legislative act can override the protections of the US Constitution for US citizens..ie..5th Amendment right to due process of law

if you really believe the last, jwhop, what have you been squawking about? all the complaints and whining about unconstitutional legislation seem pointless on your side if they "cannot override the constitution" as you say here.

not one of the nasties you screech about, however, has put in black and white that DUE PROCESS UNDER LAW IS HEREIN CANCELLED.

the fact that they amended it to say citizens and legal residents cannot be thrown into MILITARY prison indefinitely without charge or trial, does not cancel out their being thrown into CIVILIAN PRISON and given the same treatment.

as we have seen with the OWSers, the police are already military enough thank you.

this bill is taking the patriot act and leading it pretty much all the way to a declaration of MARTIAL LAW.

if that is okay with you because some leftists might be incarcerated indefinitely, it is not okay with me. even though YOU, with your guns and disrespect for the rights of those who disagree with you, are just as likely a target, i would not call that all right.

which is why i am not going to drag myself down here anymore.

posted December 08, 2011 01:15 PM            

shrugging something like this off as laughable and impossible doesn't stop it passing into law.

posted December 10, 2011 12:51 PM            

What's funny is that these screechers and howlers are leftists...proponents of Socialism which includes Marxists...like O'Bomber, other communists and a shitteree of other collectivists.

They are irrational, supporting a socio-economic-governmental system which routinely arrested, imprisoned and executed...without trial...about 200,000,000 citizens in the Socialist nations of the Soviet Union and Communist China in the 20th Century...not to mention Communist Cuba and Communist North Korea!

Something else which is funny about these screechers and howlers. They generally believe US citizens should be stripped of their private firearms and ardently support every gun control measure that comes down the pike.

They utterly fail to understand that the 2nd Amendment and firearms in the hands of private citizens is the last line of defense for citizens against the very things they screech and howl about...like arrest and indefinite detention..without trial in Military or Civilian prisons.

To say these people are a critical mass of contradiction is an understatement.

Mass delusion and mass ignorance is rampant in their ranks.

It's as though they never heard of the 5th and 6th Amendments to the US Constitution.

U.S. Constitution - Amendment 5
Amendment 5
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

There goes arrest and detention without trial...due process

U.S. Constitution: Sixth Amendment
Sixth Amendment
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

There goes indefinite detention without a trial!

And then, there's Article I, Section 9, Clause 2 of the US Constitution..i.e., Habeas Corpus

Latin for "that you have the body." A writ of habeas corpus is used to bring a prisoner or other detainee before the court to determine if the person's imprisonment or detention is lawful.

So, we have these screechers and howlers supporting Barack Hussein O'Bomber...who wants to "fundamentally transform America"...from a Constitutional Republic to a Socialist Gulag state while out of the other side of their mouths, they screech about the supposed loss of American Civil Liberties.

posted December 10, 2011 05:29 PM            

"Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death".
- Adolph Hitler

"Why of course the people don’t want war … But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship … Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
- Hermann Goering, Nazi leader.

"The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened".
- Josef Stalin

posted December 11, 2011 06:51 AM            

Now katatonic, let me quote our Marxist Socialist Progressive president...O'Bomber.

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set.

We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

Shades of Hitler's Nazi Brown Shirts and Stalin's secret police.

Comrades, your papers please!!!

posted December 11, 2011 09:09 PM            

quote:

---

whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship …

---

Tyrants can and do operate within all conceivable political and economic systems. We can amuse ourselves arguing whether the USA is becoming a communist state or a fascist state (there is evidence of both), whether it's Big Government or Big Corporate that has the people in a vise grip (they both do) while all along we are surrendering our freedoms to an increasingly tyranical system. The boot is on our collective neck while we're happily reliving the Nuremberg trials and the McCarthy hearings. The old, easy to spot catagories of "marxist" and "nazi" are archaic, no longer useful to anyone but the enemy. The other side has long since adapted. You're fighting a new and improved hybrid. Those too comfortable with the old chess board to adapt to the new battle lines, however well intentioned they may be, are only part of the problem now.

quote:

---

btw shura, I do not consider you to be a "Leftist"...or a "pinko commie babe".

---

posted December 14, 2011 05:10 PM            

please tell me how you are going to EXERCISE your constitutional rights when you disappear and are held incommunicado without charge or trial?

because the amended phrase does not REQUIRE military custody for citizens and "residents" does not mean it PROHIBITS same. nor is ANYTHING said to prevent you being picked up for thumbing your nose at a "peace officer" or knowing someone with an arabic name, OWNING GUNS, having less than 10 fingers, or stocking your larder for a rainy day.

hope you appreciate the decor at guantanamo cause they can send you there, too! or just keep you at folsom or some other bijou padlet which your taxes helped pay for.

the president threatened to veto this bill, though rumour has many versions of which parts he objected to! however even if he vetoes it it goes back to congress and the same TRAITORS who voted it in with an overwhelming majority will override his veto.

meanwhile the house is willing to continue the payroll tax extension IF millions are stricken from unemployment due to new ridiculous regulations, insurance benefits for the underpaid are slashed, ad nauseam

oh and the kicker is tying this to the XL pipeline, which not only will not help our oil prices (canadian oil being transported to multinational companies, NOT the "homeland") but threaten the farmland and water supply across basically the middle of our agricultural resource.

personally, $1000 per family per year is not worth it. that is less than $100 a month to ransom the future health of your children. of course, if you think being able to give them a Wii for XMAS is more important...

posted December 14, 2011 06:46 PM            

The Constitution prohibits the same. We don't need a law to specifically assert what rights we already have. Those are defaulted. As I have stated, the US Consitution is the supreme law of the land...period...end of story.