posted November 14, 2012 02:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:

The "government" document was merely stating what things are likely to be true of a domestic terrorist.

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posted November 14, 2012 02:26 PM            

Barack Obama may never live up to your standards of what a leader or President should be because he's not libertarian. We live in a democracy and he's a Democratic President. He's not Ron Paul. He's not Ron Paul. He's not Ron Paul.

You want me to breakdown my reasons for disliking the President, explain his failings to you in precise detail. Yet, you've already made your judgments. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I don't need to nor do I want to. I think it's great that you have such strong convictions, I'd wish you'd wouldn't label others as blind for doing the same. You hold so very strongly to your beliefs and I've deduced this discussion is therefore pointless. I've done my Obama homework, I've just come to a different conclusion then you. And it's not likely that we'll come to a common ground. I'm tired of this irrational debate.

Oh and about those legions of people who support the President and recognize his failings, there are articles, blog posts, even radio stations (independent ones) dedicated to picking apart this President and his promises. And shocker, many of them still supported his reelection.

Here's a podcast from one of my favorite independent radio stations, Citizens Radio: http://wearecitizenradio.com/2012/11/07/20121107-obama-won-now-lets-talk-about-drones-workers-rights-and-negotiations-with-iran/

Edit: here's another one that's criticizing both Romney and Obama's policies on drones: http://wearecitizenradio.com/2012/10/24/20121024-obama-and-romney-agree-drones-sanctions-israel-good-iran-bad/

Here's a political blog post from DailyIntel: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/09/obamas-non-disappointing-presidency.html

Here's another nice one picking apart the President: http://grist.org/politics/2011-04-26-ezra-klein-obama-moderate-republican-early-1990s/

posted November 14, 2012 02:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
And also because his position allows him to be an eternal critic, never actually getting his hands dirty. U remind me of him. For sure he is always gonna be right by protesting against those who take the risk to act. There is saying in french, maybe in english idk, i didnt understand it until recently: there is only those whonever act that never make any mistakes.

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I just don't think Obama's doing a good job. Political discussions usually involve complaint. Even the optimists tend to throw in sharp jabs about the opposing party, so I don't know who, in a political discussion, isn't being critical.

I dislike being judged for not acting before someone takes the time to ask me whether or not I act.

Why not be courteous...like, you could say:

"Faith, do you give money to political organizations to try and accomplish something positive in government?"

YES.

"Do you actually go out into the world participating in protests, events, fundraisers and stuff like that?"

YES.

"Do you get your hopes up like the Obama supporters do, when you see a candidate who, imperfect as they are, still are good enough to make you hope they might do something right?"

YES.

"And you fund their campaigns?"

YES.

"Do you sign up for emails from activist groups so you can sign their petitions and send money when you believe in a cause?"

I do.

posted November 14, 2012 02:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
Out of curiosity I just looked up this claim that Ron Paul supporters are supposedly on a terrorist watch list. There's no evidence that a Ron Paul supporter would be singled out for being a Ron Paul supporter as a possible terrorist suspect. The "government" document was merely stating what things are likely to be true of a domestic terrorist.

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In what way does the MIAC report NOT count as a bona fide government document?

Why did you put that word in quotations?

quote:

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
This profile of a domestic terrorist is likely based upon the ones that have already carried out acts of terrorism in the United States.

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"Likely," huh? But you don't know for sure?

What terrorists were Ron Paul supporters? I'm curious.

quote:

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
There's no good reason for this to concern you unless you have thoughts about carrying out plans of domestic terrorism.

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How would you feel if being an Obama supporter was considered an indication that you might be a terrorist?

posted November 14, 2012 02:54 PM            

I asked you to tell me in your own words how Obama may have failed or let you down but you just keep sending me links. I already told you that links don't answer the question for me.

So we can drop it.

posted November 14, 2012 02:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
Faith it seems u miss the purpose of my comment. No worries.

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Really? Can you explain it better or do you prefer to leave it hanging so it looks like I am just too stupid to grasp what you were actually getting at?

posted November 14, 2012 03:04 PM            

quote:

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"Likely," huh? But you don't know for sure?

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posted November 14, 2012 03:22 PM            

[S]tate law enforcement officials said the report is being misinterpreted. Lt. John Hotz of the Missouri State Highway Patrol said the report was compiled by the Missouri Information Analysis Center based in Jefferson City and comes purely from publically available, trend data on militias. http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/ron-paul-supporters-terrorists

quote:

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How would you feel if being an Obama supporter was considered an indication that you might be a terrorist?

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I would feel fine. I'm not a terrorist.

posted November 14, 2012 03:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Really? Can you explain it better or do you prefer to leave it hanging so it looks like I am just too stupid to grasp what you were actually getting at?

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posted November 14, 2012 03:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
OK, NJ.

I asked you to tell me in your own words how Obama may have failed or let you down but you just keep sending me links. I already told you that links don't answer the question for me.

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The links I posted are in response to your statement: "What proof is there that they care? Are they protesting the Patriot Act still? Writing blog entries against drone attacks and the NDAA and the TSA? Worried about the militarization of our police? All the signs that in other places and other times would be seen as clear indications that we are increasingly becoming a police state? I haven't seen them doing that; I've seen them devoting much more energy to trying to exonerate the President for every controversial thing he's done."

Yes there are in fact blog entries, articles, radio podcasts, discussing the unethical use of drone attacks, the NDAA, the FISA Bill, Guantanamo, Iran etc. All the information you assume doesn't exist is out there. Among all of his successes and failures, I still support the President and his attempts at bipartisanship with the Republicans in congress during his first term. Hopefully he learned his lesson, which is you can't reason with the unreasonable.

This isn't the 18th century, there are bigger things at stake here. As far as his actions go, President Obama has had his successes (healthcare reform, ending the war in Iraq, stimulus bill, reduced government spending, increased renewable energy investments, signed the Lily Ledbetter Fair play Act) and many failures (the rise in national debt, continuing the war in Afghanistan, expanding the use of drones campaign under Petraeus, signing the FISA Bill, attempting to be bipartisan with Republicans in the House and failing miserably, inaction towards immigration reform) and each list goes on. And now onto his next four years.

posted November 14, 2012 04:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
NJ, i am listening to the podcast u posted and i don t understand what they answer at the begining to the question: why the french people should burn?
Because.. They are not ****** ??? I didnt get the word. Can u tell me please

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posted November 14, 2012 04:44 PM            

Thanks for clarifying several points for me. I didn't understand that the links were in response to my other questions.

I'll check them out when I get a chance.

I'm not an actual, self-proclaiming Libertarian, just for the record. (Edited: I used that word before to give you a ballpark figure for where I stand, relative to government interventions, for lack of any better label. But I differ with them and their ideology in many ways.)

While I love Ron Paul, I don't dismiss every politician just because they are not Ron Paul.

@AG

Bottom line is, I take issue with the practice of *profiling,* especially when the government is also spying non-stop and talking about incarcerating people preventively in the future, based on these secretive criteria/risk factors they have come up with, and not necessarily the actual intent of the individuals.

If you don't mind being branded as a potential terrorist, that's your biz. To me, it's the highest form of insult.

Semi-funny video about profiling.

@pire

Hope you slept well. Truth is, I can work for reform under an existing administration and criticize some of the decisions of the President at the same time. It helps clarify my own principles and priorities.

I see Obama as a liar, and that's basically a deal-breaker for me. He may have other shining qualities, but the blatant lying prevents me from respecting him.

posted November 14, 2012 05:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Actually, AG, I see the flaws in Republicans (Romney in particular). That's what makes me different. Some of the people here just seem to have a girl crush on Obama. He can do no wrong. If he created death camps, they would justify it. But I see him all too clearly. And it has nothing to do with anything but his policies and his character (or lack thereof) and his duplicitous nature. But I don't expect the lambs to ever wake up or protest even as they look up lovingly in his eyes as the axe drops.

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at the italicized part. I find the imagery funny, even if the reality of it actually happening would be scary.

To our resident psychologist, Acoustic.

What do you think of the women posting in favor of the Prez in this forum, do you think we have a girl crush on him? And could you support your answer with reasons? Thanks

posted November 14, 2012 07:13 PM            

I don't think that there is active profiling...not on the basis of liking a third party candidate. There are plenty of reasons for a person to like a third party candidate that don't involve having a terrorist mentality.

Linda Jones

posted November 15, 2012 01:40 AM            

Thanks for the translation. I thought they said "becuse tgey are *morrocans*" which didn't make sense.
I didn't get offended, there are some frennch that I would like to see burn sometimes too. my country IS really beautiful, but the french are a usually unsatisfied. I feel a strong virgo energy in the culture of my country. And it can be disheartening when u live in such a beautiful place. With a very good way of life rooted in food for the mind, and for the mouth
Being critic is a national sport here, and I confess enjoying it too from time to time.

@ faith
thanks, it is night time here when people are having lunch in the States.

posted November 16, 2012 06:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
Thanks for the translation. I thought they said "becuse tgey are *morrocans*" which didn't make sense.
I didn't get offended, there are some frennch that I would like to see burn sometimes too. my country IS really beautiful, but the french are a usually unsatisfied. I feel a strong virgo energy in the culture of my country. And it can be disheartening when u live in such a beautiful place. With a very good way of life rooted in food for the mind, and for the mouth
Being critic is a national sport here, and I confess enjoying it too from time to time.

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No problem Pire. I hear you about citizens having a perpetual sense of dissatisfaction with their country. I grew up in between the US and South Africa, and both countries have their beauty, especially South Africa. Cape Town (that's all I have to say). You're life will be changed, forever.

There is this profound beauty in South Africa and also this potent cosmic energy there. So potent we have about as many conventional doctors as spiritual and medicine men and woman (including Shamans which we call Sangomas), and many citizens regardless of ethnicity in SA regularly consult both. Interesting right? But on top of all the cultural and natural beauty is a great deal of conflict amongst the people both in SA and in the USA (for different reasons of course). If I had to align South Africa specifically with a sign, I'd align it with Sagittarius. For the wisdom and strength of the people, the abundance of spiritual resources and practices (new age, religious, and ancient), and the extensive cultural diversity that's allowed the country to be coined the "rainbow nation" by Mandela.

posted November 17, 2012 01:09 AM            

For the US i personnally see leo going hand in hand with cancer. Obviously the 4th of july play a role but I find americans sometimes a bit too clanish. May be because they have this other vibe that make them so open towards the rest of the world, making them look sagg to me, and especially if we think of the US new border's quest or whatever it is called. I mean the conquest of the west, of space...

posted November 17, 2012 09:47 PM            

I could definitely see the Sun being in Sag for South Africa because of the history of migration and influx of varied cultural groups in Southern Africa and the extensive archeological and prehistoric artifacts and sites home to this region. Of which compromise some of the oldest discovered on the planet. There's a great deal of prehistoric history there. I continue to see the parallels between Sagittarius and it's themes. I could definitely see Gemini Rising or possibly the moon being in Gemini which would be a deeper representation of an internal conflict within the nation. Which greatly characterizes South Africa's tumultuous racial history.

I can completely associate Libra Rising with France for it's beauty and art, and refinement projected out into the world. In addition to literature. Was it not French philosopher and writer Diderot who helped compile the very first encyclopedia? It was. I can also see the Moon being in Taurus. Especially that fixed energy being present towards food, indulgence and fine living.