posted May 07, 2013 10:34 AM            

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posted May 07, 2013 10:50 AM            

Blessings each to you

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posted May 07, 2013 01:18 PM            

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Better a race than no race at all (no weapon with which to defend oneself). Or perhaps you would have it best that a family be at the complete mercy of a home invader?

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That's a better answer than talking about which states have laws where you can kill an intruder under any circumstances.

You say a race is better than nothing at all. That's only true if you (or someone in your family) wins the race (and is able to load and fire the weapon quickly enough). If you don't make it to the gun, it's the same as if you had no gun at all. I just can't help but see the logical hole in the argument of, "I carry a weapon to protect my family." That argument is always trotted out, but seldom really thought about. Pro-gun people like to make pro-gun-control people out as over-emotional as well, but if your reason for having a gun is protection, then your argument is as emotional as any anti-gun person. I would just like people to wake up to the fact that by and large the arguments are nonsense.

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Or perhaps you would have it best that a family be at the complete mercy of a home invader?

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So much of life is outside of our control, it's frankly a matter of wishful thinking to believe we can change our odds of controlling surprise situations.
You can, of course, change your odds potentially...in the case of home invasion. You can keep a loaded gun on your person whenever you're at home. That would legitimately help in the case of a normal dressing-hour break-in. Keeping them unloaded, in a safe, with the safety on is just going to hamper you when the time comes that you need it.

Might want to check into some flash bangs or smoke bombs to buy yourself a little time. The added tactics may just give the perpetrator second thoughts about going any deeper into your home. You could also have a gun ready with blanks to scare the bejeezus out of an intruder. I think a house of perceived horrors is a far greater deterrent than allowing for a easy shootout in a smokeless home where either gun owner might fire first.

Blank Gun
Smoke Bombs
Tear Gas grenade

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PS I hate being near guns, I just like a man who embodies being male.

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posted May 07, 2013 03:23 PM            

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posted May 07, 2013 04:06 PM            

8. More guns tend to mean more homicide.

The Harvard Injury Control Research Center assessed the literature on guns and homicide and found that there’s substantial evidence that indicates more guns means more murders. This holds true whether you’re looking at different countries or different states. Citations here.

9. States with stricter gun control laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence.

Last year, economist Richard Florida dove deep into the correlations between gun deaths and other kinds of social indicators. Some of what he found was, perhaps, unexpected: Higher populations, more stress, more immigrants, and more mental illness were not correlated with more deaths from gun violence. But one thing he found was, perhaps, perfectly predictable: States with tighter gun control laws appear to have fewer gun-related deaths. The disclaimer here is that correlation is not causation. But correlations can be suggestive:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/ 12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

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In one city in particular (Atlanta area), it is illegal for any adult male NOT to own a firearm. Needless to say, burglaries and robberies are almost down to zero there since the legislation passed.

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That would be correlation, not necessarily causation, and if you're talking about Nelson, GA, there are no statistics to back up a supposed reduction in violent (or property) crime. Requiring people to be armed is a breech of their liberty, and the law will not be enforced per the town's own instruction.

Here's a little article on that town you might want to read: http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2013/apr/08/b-heath-mitchell /it-takes-lot-live-mayberry/

posted May 07, 2013 05:10 PM            

reading this thread with interest though i don't understand anything lol.

oh and to me (and i am young and attractive and sane if i do say so myself) a real man doesn't need a gun, he knows his own power, he knows he is part of the universe, and he knows that real gentleness and respect for all life forms that he is connected to in one way be it tiny or huge, is more powerful than having all the weapons arsenals and nuclear bombs of the world put together...am pretty sure many here would agree that Jesus was a real man (the real guy not this fiction thing that religion has de-evolved into, to satisfy political needs of those who don't really care that there is a more powerful and loving source above them) and remind me what gun he carried?even while on his way to being crucified?
And again did read once that the bigger the gun the smaller the....and don't disagree.

Anyway i somehow don't know but feel it isn't having a gun or not having it that is the real problem...just saying, something else is really there to cause all this fracas, and am not even sure who benefits from all this at the end of the day.

posted May 07, 2013 05:14 PM            

This is one of the DUMBEST statements I have ever heard, right up there with...... I don't know I can't think of a dumber one, right now.

AG, E-v-a heard of illegal guns? I will tell you because I guess you haven't. Criminals get guns, AG. They can EVEN get them from other countries like Russia. These bad men have guns when good people are disarmed from being law abiding. Any questions?

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posted May 07, 2013 05:17 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]By logic, Randall, no guns also equal no gun crime.

This is one of the DUMBEST statements I have ever heard, right up there with...... I don't know I can't think of a dumber one, right now.

AG, E-v-a heard of illegal guns? I will tell you because I guess you haven't. Criminals get guns, AG. They can EVEN get them from other countries like Russia. These bad men have guns when good people are disarmed from being law abiding. Any questions?

[/B]

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Refer to gun statistics to see that most attacks are made by legal guns....

posted May 07, 2013 05:18 PM            

There's a lot wrong with the above, it's cherry picking data. For example, the 2010 murder rate show that California (with heavy gun control) was the worst state for gun murders while Texas (where guns are part of the culture) had the highest rates for murder in general. 'Course Illinois (with the most draconian gun laws) and Louisiana are almost equal...and yet about everyone I know agrees that if you were to exclude Chicago & New Orleans (and the incredible urban crowds & poverty of both cities) that the stats for violence in both states would plummet significantly. All in all it doesn't look like guns make that much a difference in violence, which is no surprise to me (however, if one area has many legal, even obligatory use of guns as Randal mentioned and one can take a bus to somewhere that doesn't then I'm not surprised it makes a real difference in that specific case, criminals prefer unarmed victims for obvious reasons, but they'll go only so far to avoid someone with a gun).

I will say that Florida isn't the least violent, and never was. Change in gun laws DID help locals somewhat, but tourists (who were expected to both have money and be unarmed) took a hit as a result...and some of the shootings that got off from Don't Stand Your Ground get really absurd (as in chasing someone several blocks to shoot them and it's not prosecuted) which would help lower the rate of gun crime in an official capacity (OTOH the laws can be absurd in other ways, too, like a Florida woman who saved her children from a father by firing a warning shot into the ceiling, and though he admitted at first that he intended to kill her and the kids he afterward changed his story and I think she got convicted, not sure who got the kids...had she just shot him dead then presumably she'd have gotten off on Stand Your Ground).

And it's true correlation doesn't equal cause, and as for mass shootings they would do well to see how many were undergoing serious brain chemical changes by either starting new psyche meds or going off of them cold turkey. Furthermore, it would also do well to look at how many mass shootings happen in "gun free zones" (and after they became gun free zones rather than before).

posted May 07, 2013 05:21 PM            

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Originally posted by jellyfishtry:
Hmm as a non North American....am very bemused by the US's obsession with guns...from how they are needed for security, yet at schools cause a lot of insecurity as kids take other kids lives with them.

reading this thread with interest though i don't understand anything lol.

oh and to me (and i am young and attractive and sane if i do say so myself) a real man doesn't need a gun, he knows his own power, he knows he is part of the universe, and he knows that real gentleness and respect for all life forms that he is connected to in one way be it tiny or huge, is more powerful than having all the weapons arsenals and nuclear bombs of the world put together...am pretty sure many here would agree that Jesus was a real man (the real guy not this fiction thing that religion has de-evolved into, to satisfy political needs of those who don't really care that there is a more powerful and loving source above them) and remind me what gun he carried?even while on his way to being crucified?
And again did read once that the bigger the gun the smaller the....and don't disagree.

Anyway i somehow don't know but feel it isn't having a gun or not having it that is the real problem...just saying, something else is really there to cause all this fracas, and am not even sure who benefits from all this at the end of the day.

okay if you understood nothing from this it is okay...i understood nothing to, neither from the subject or a lot of the posts, or what am trying to say but just had to post hehehe

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posted May 07, 2013 05:27 PM            

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
By logic, Randall, no guns also equal no gun crime.

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Ok, I did have to pick this out. This is absurd. That's as logical as saying, "No legalized drugs means no drug crime."

If anything gun crime would get worse because the black market would then become dominated by guns & ammo restricted to government & military sources, and criminals who got the guns would feel embolden that only they had them and become even more aggressive (as would criminals with legal melee weapons, he can take out gramps now with a bat or even his fists as he may have a pacemaker but not a peacemaker).

posted May 07, 2013 05:39 PM            

*Answer from the Teacher's Book--Everyone else

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posted May 07, 2013 05:39 PM            

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Originally posted by doommlord:
Refer to gun statistics to see that most attacks are made by legal guns...

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I'd question their source, that is whoever made the stats were cherry picking or wording it to make it appear as something else. I'm sure most guns on the black market were stolen from law abiding citizens (and thus technically "legal" if you overlook that they were also stolen), but they're not the only source of guns on the black market, just the cheapest and most easily come by.

posted May 07, 2013 05:49 PM            

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Originally posted by doommlord:
I get you i dont see all the hype about guns.....probably something of american culture that has some symbolic significance.

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'symbolic significance' what is that lol? yep i read a lot of your posts and understand where you are coming from often.

Thing is with US and guns, i think us 'foreigners' can't really do or say anything.

It's like the people there are way far too deep in a trance state that started a long time ago (how can they not be? with the media and pressure and etc etc and professionals who are paid to make sure the big companies can keep them thinking what they want them to think etc)when it comes to guns, that nothing we say or do can actually go through to them...

posted May 07, 2013 07:11 PM            

to me it is obvious that a free access to guns, especially automtic, will mean more killings.

those who struggle to get an assault weapon on the black market, don't do that to merely do a home invasion. they rob banks, or eventually target other gangs (in marseilles for exemple, it is a new phenomenon, though very local)

posted May 07, 2013 07:31 PM            

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Originally posted by MoonWitch:
I do have to say that I do feel better with guns in the house (in a safe). There are all sorts of crazies in this world and you can't depend on someone else to always save you from them.

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posted May 07, 2013 08:06 PM            

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This is one of the DUMBEST statements I have ever heard, right up there with...... I don't know I can't think of a dumber one, right now.

AG, E-v-a heard of illegal guns? I will tell you because I guess you haven't. Criminals get guns, AG. They can EVEN get them from other countries like Russia.

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Who said anything about illegal guns? I just said something, which isn't dumb in the slightest: if there are no guns, there cannot be gun violence. You're adding to the equation by trying to introduce illegal guns into my no-gun scenario.

To illustrate another way, if you had a city of a thousand where everyone had guns, and a city of a thousand where no one had guns...where would you be more likely to encounter gun violence? The answer is rather simple, isn't it?

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These bad men have guns when good people are disarmed from being law abiding. Any questions?

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You're not smart enough to deal with the subject in the first place, so why would I or anyone else ask you?

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Refer to gun statistics to see that most attacks are made by legal guns....

For dumber statements refer back to your posts.

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Furthermore, it would also do well to look at how many mass shootings happen in "gun free zones" (and after they became gun free zones rather than before).

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You can look to Australia, which disarmed it's citizenry and has had zero gun massacres since.

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Still, both sides like to say they're the reason violence in general has gone down. I got determined to find the truth the truth of it and what I finally found is it wasn't the guns, it was the last of the boomers passing the age of 30 that marked a growing decline in violence (and it was when the first mass wave of boomers entered their teens that violence skyrocketed in America, too).

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Another person looking for a reason for a drop in violence, Steven Levitt (Freakonomics) attributed Roe v. Wade.

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Ok, I did have to pick this out. This is absurd. That's as logical as saying, "No legalized drugs means no drug crime."

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It's not remotely absurd. See above.

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Simple Equation for AG like simple, basic elementary school math
If all good guys are disarmed, no criminals will be, so who will be screwed?

*Answer from the Teacher's Book--Everyone else

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I believe doomlord already tackled that, Ami. "most attacks are made by legal guns"

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I'd question their source, that is whoever made the stats were cherry picking or wording it to make it appear as something else.

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Or you are.

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to me it is obvious that a free access to guns, especially automtic, will mean more killings.

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This is how rational people think about the subject.

posted May 07, 2013 08:29 PM            

This comment defies logic. This comment is one of the single most clueless comments I have ever heard. CRIMINALS GET GUNS, AG and CRIMINALS USE THE GUNS In VIOLENT WAYS

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posted May 07, 2013 10:22 PM            

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
Who said anything about illegal guns? I just said something, which isn't dumb in the slightest: if there are no guns, there cannot be gun violence. You're adding to the equation by trying to introduce illegal guns into my no-gun scenario.

To illustrate another way, if you had a city of a thousand where everyone had guns, and a city of a thousand where no one had guns...where would you be more likely to encounter gun violence? The answer is rather simple, isn't it?

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That's true as far as it goes. It's also true that in a world with no death that there would be no killing, so why stop with "no guns"? And why say something so surreal in the first place? It's simply not going to happen.

The world was plenty horrific & violent (including with projectiles) long before the first gun was invented, too.

posted May 08, 2013 02:02 AM            

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Originally posted by jellyfishtry:
'symbolic significance' what is that lol? yep i read a lot of your posts and understand where you are coming from often.

Thing is with US and guns, i think us 'foreigners' can't really do or say anything.

It's like the people there are way far too deep in a trance state that started a long time ago (how can they not be? with the media and pressure and etc etc and professionals who are paid to make sure the big companies can keep them thinking what they want them to think etc)when it comes to guns, that nothing we say or do can actually go through to them...

watching to see where it all ends, and heaven forbid it ends like a lot of outsiders see it ending(there are guns and an obsession with them involved after all)....I suppose we still can pray for something better to wake up and happen over there though

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