Author
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Topic: Wise Words From a Hero----Dr Carson
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AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 8250 From: Pleasanton, CA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 06, 2013 05:41 PM
quote: The judicial device for enforcing the administrative summons is provided by IRC §§ 7402(b) and 7604. IRC 7604(a) provides that the jurisdiction to compel compliance with a summons is in the United States District Court for the district in which the person summoned resides or is found. Subsection (b) provides for a body attachment procedure, which "was intended only to cover persons who were summoned and wholly made default or contumaciously refused to comply" and is not to be used where there was a refusal based upon a claim of privilege. Reisman v. Caplin, 375 U.S. 440 (1964).
This is the closest to a silver bullet as I've seen from you. I had neither read nor processed this before my last post. My only problem with this is what your previous post from the IRS mentioned: Constitutional and common law privileges apply only in very limited situations. If and when the summonee declines to testify or produce documents based on a privilege, the examiner should continue with the request for records and/or testimony to establish a record of noncompliance with the summons. The record may be used in a subsequent court proceeding brought to enforce the summons. See IRM 4022.41.
At the conclusion of the examination, the examiner should make a memorandum for the file noting each question to which the privilege was claimed. Later, the Service may use this memorandum in court during a summons enforcement proceeding. Both from your IRS document: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopicg93.pdf We might have to engage someone with some specific knowledge to find out which is true.
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Randall Webmaster Posts: 35161 From: Saturn next to Charmainec Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 06, 2013 05:55 PM
Both are correct, AG. The IRS continues to make a written record in case it goes judicial. Although they are instructed not to take it judicial, they still may. It is not recommended, but it is also not prohibited. The IRS publication I reproduced is ginormous, so am posting noteworthy portions of it below: Although expansive, the Service's summons power is not limitless. To get its summons enforced, the Service must show the court: (1) the investigation has a legitimate purpose; (2) the examiner only seeks information that may be relevant After the Service has established these prerequisites to enforcement, the taxpayer can "challenge the summons on any appropriate grounds." Powell, 379 U.S. at 58. To quash the summons, the taxpayer must show: (1) there has already been an examination of his books and records; (2) the tax years under investigation have been closed by the statute of limitations; (3) enforcing the summons will violate the taxpayer's constitutional rights or common law privileges; or (4) the summons has been issued for an improper purpose. An "improper purpose" includes harassing the taxpayer, pressuring the taxpayer to settle a collateral dispute, or any other purpose reflecting negatively on the good faith of the particular investigation. The Supreme Court noted, in United States v. LaSalle National Bank, 437 U.S. 298, 316 n.18 (1978), that the Service does not have the inherent authority to summon the private papers of citizens. It can only exercise the power that Congress has bestowed on it. Constitutional and Common Law Privileges Two constitutional provisions, i.e., the fourth and fifth amendments, are frequently raised by the summonee when appearing pursuant to a summons. The fourth amendment provides for "the right of the people to be secure in their houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable search and seizure ...." It protects U.S. citizens from unreasonable governmental intrusion into their private lives. The fifth amendment provides, "[n]o person...shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself." It bars the government from forcing a person to help in his own criminal prosecution. The extent of protection derived from these constitutional provisions varies with the type of summonee. For example, the fourth amendment may protect the taxpayer from having to disclose personal records, but it may not be relied on by anyone else connected with the case. The Fourth Amendment The fourth amendment governs all searches and seizures by government agents. The privilege prevents the government from conducting unreasonable searches and seizures. It protects a person's right to privacy, that is the sanctity of one's home and other privacies of life. (1) Taxpayer and Third-Parties The fourth amendment privilege may apply to a summons that seeks documents in which the taxpayer has a reasonable expectation of privacy. A third-party summonee may not depend on the privilege, only the taxpayer. The taxpayer may assert the privilege only as to his or her private papers and effects. Boyd v. United States, 116 U.S. 616 (1886). The protection of the privilege is lost for what the taxpayer has knowingly shown to others. Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347, 351 (1967). The taxpayer takes the risk, in revealing his affairs to another, that the information may be conveyed by that person to the government. United States v. Miller, 425 U.S. 435, 443 (1976). This is true even if the taxpayer revealed the information in confidence and assumed that it would be used only for a limited purpose. Id. For example, original bank slips, deposit slips, and other transactional documents are not protected by the privilege because the taxpayer voluntarily discloses these instruments to banks and bank employees. The Fifth Amendment The fifth amendment prevents the government from forcing an individual to make self-incriminating statements. See Fisher v. United States, 425 U.S. 391, 409 (1976). The privilege applies only when a person's statements or acts: (1) constitute testimony, (2) are forced from him, and (3) incriminate him. All three elements must be present for a valid claim of the privilege. The fifth amendment privilege extends not only to criminal proceedings, but to civil proceedings as well. Allen v. Illinois, 478 U.S. 364, 368 (1986). This includes Service examinations and investigations. Testimony The examiner cannot force the summonee to make self-incriminating oral statements. This is true regardless of whether the person testifying is the taxpayer or a third-party summonee. However, the privilege is a personal one and cannot be claimed for someone else. The examiner can compel a summonee to incriminate others. The summonee cannot make a "blanket" assertion of the privilege and, thereby, refuse to answer all questions asked. The privilege can be claimed only on a question-by-question basis. Books and Records (A) The Taxpayer The fifth amendment privilege extends to the taxpayer's personal papers. However, the taxpayer has to be the owner of the papers and also have them in his or her possession in order to assert the privilege. Ownership is required because the privilege protects only personal papers. Possession is required because if the documents are surrendered by a third party the taxpayer is not making the incriminating statements. Someone else is incriminating the taxpayer. The taxpayer, however, cannot entirely fail to surrender summoned information. The taxpayer must assert the privilege item-by-item. Schmidt, 816 F.2d at 1481-82. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 8250 From: Pleasanton, CA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 09, 2013 12:43 PM
So then, it sounds as if asserting a privilege may work, particularly if you're a relatively little fish devoid of a record of non-cooperation. They might drop you to work on a more rewarding case. There's no sure safety, however.IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 35161 From: Saturn next to Charmainec Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 09, 2013 02:44 PM
It seemed to me that you presumed that the IRS had virtually unlimited powers. Most people feel that way. But in reality, they are bound by the law like any other agency and all other law-enforcement. If the police knocked on your door and wanted to search your house, would you let them in if they had no warrant? Would it indicate guilt if you denied them entry till they return with one? The same goes for an audit. Substantiating an item or deduction is one thing, but a random fishing expedition through all of my books and records to see if I "might" have done something wrong is not allowed. Like a search warrant must reasonably list what is to be seized and where it is to be searched, so must a summons, but the big difference is if it's my personal records and in my possession, then I can legally deny the "search." And they are not supposed to punish me in any way for doing so (in theory). But they will only ask for judicial assistance if they really want to see the records badly, because it's a risk. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 8250 From: Pleasanton, CA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 09, 2013 05:34 PM
quote: It seemed to me that you presumed that the IRS had virtually unlimited powers. Most people feel that way.
You tend to assume a lot, especially in GU. quote: Substantiating an item or deduction is one thing, but a random fishing expedition through all of my books and records to see if I "might" have done something wrong is not allowed.
It's allowed so long as a person doesn't claim a privilege with a reasonable degree of specificity. IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 35161 From: Saturn next to Charmainec Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 09, 2013 06:06 PM
Your stance seemed to show that you felt this way.By allowed, I mean that a fishing expedition is barred by the Constitution. But you can volunteer to turn over whatever you want to. Just like when cops pull someone over and ask if they can search the vehicle, and these idiots who know there's contraband in the vehicle say still say yes (giving consent). Unfortunately, by not specifically claiming a privilege, you are waiving it. A taxpayer should generally retain counsel when dealing with the IRS. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 8250 From: Pleasanton, CA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 09, 2013 07:29 PM
quote: Your stance seemed to show that you felt this way.
I don't think it did. My stance has been that the IRS can enforce the rules in order to collect proper taxes. I think you agree with me now on that point. Moreover, my point was don't mess with the IRS, and that's probably why you thought I felt they had unlimited power. They don't, but not cooperating could very likely have consequences. They're not easily dismissed. At best, they are carefully dismissed (and at worst you're going to court knowing that you tried a shenanigan [if you did indeed falsify your taxes in any way] and it's going to be a nightmare). quote: By allowed, I mean that a fishing expedition is barred by the Constitution.
Right. But they aren't barred from trying with the administrative summons, and if they go beyond that they have to have a reasonable expectation that their request doesn't amount to a fishing expedition. IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 35161 From: Saturn next to Charmainec Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 09, 2013 08:13 PM
I've never advocated perjury. I advocate affirming one's rights. If you accurately report your income, you shouldn't have to help them to try to prove that you didn't. If they can prove I did something wrong, they are welcomed to try. But I don't have to assist them. I think that's what began this discussion, that no one need submit to an audit, i.e. that an audit is voluntary. And later on, my assertion was that an administrative summons is also voluntary. Best not to rile the hornets' nest by breaking audit appointments and other such acts. If you show up at the audit and claim the privileges, that lessens the odds for a summons. Just like affirming your rights at an administrative summons reduces the odds for judicial action. If there is a lost record, an Affidavit will normally clear it up at the audit and administrative summons levels. The reason is because only a court can challenge an Affidavit. The IRS or any government entity must accept it as gospel until then. It's the same silver bullet tax attorneys use. It is the equivalent of giving testimony under oath in court and can only be challenged in court. But ultimately, if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. And if the IRS wants to show otherwise, the burden of proof is on them (providing you claim a privilege). Who's afraid of the big bad wolf? Not I, not I!IP: Logged | |