Author
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Topic: Debate: Trump was aggressive but was it enough?
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iQ Moderator Posts: 4989 From: Lyra Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 26, 2016 11:48 PM
I was expecting Trump to fire on all cylinders and make Hillary wilt under pressure but she withstood the pressure.There were personal accusations from both sides (deleted emails etc) but Clinton was having the edge regarding Trump's Tax Records as every Presidential Candidate has been declaring them for 4 decades. Fact Checking shows that Bill Clinton is the greatest President for job increases, and the top two are Democrats [Bill increased 2.8 million jobs, Carter increased 2.6 million jobs compared to Reagan's 2 million and Obama's 1.6 million], and Hillary piggy backed on this. I think Hillary changed the game with this very well prepared line: "Donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate. I did. You know what else I did? I prepared to be president." I was expecting Trump 75 and Hillary 25 on debate one but this was objectively a 50-50, which actually strengthens Hillary for the next debate as Trump seems to have exhausted all the controversial accusations. Would like to hear others opinions on the debate. IP: Logged |
juniperb Moderator Posts: 9613 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 27, 2016 08:07 AM
I think 50-50 as well. Both were on their game but Hillarys smugness shone through as did Trumps sarcasm. If sounding "presidential" got one elected, Hillary won. ------------------ Partial truth~the seeds of wisdom~can be found in many places...The seeds of wisdom are contained in all scriptures ever written… especially in art, music, and poetry and, above all, in Nature.
Linda Goodman IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 70518 From: Saturn next to Charmaine Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 27, 2016 04:04 PM
It was a tie. Trump held back, because he saw Chelsea (Ivanka's friend) in the audience. And Hillary performed better than I thought she would. IP: Logged |
etherealsaturn Knowflake Posts: 235 From: New York, USA Registered: Sep 2014
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posted September 27, 2016 05:47 PM
quote: Originally posted by juniperb: I think 50-50 as well. Both were on their game but Hillarys smugness shone through as did Trumps sarcasm. If sounding "presidential" got one elected, Hillary won.
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Delilah423 Knowflake Posts: 635 From: Registered: Aug 2013
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posted September 28, 2016 08:46 PM
The best assessment I heard of the night was Howard Fineman who said "She was like a patient school teacher of a 7 year old who has not been blessed with an elevator that goes all the way to the top."IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 70518 From: Saturn next to Charmaine Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 28, 2016 10:30 PM
She was nothing more than a puppet repeating the words whispered in her left ear.IP: Logged |
Bluejay Knowflake Posts: 768 From: Registered: Jun 2013
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posted September 29, 2016 07:55 AM
quote: Originally posted by Randall: She was nothing more than a puppet repeating the words whispered in her left ear.
Why would Hillary need anyone to feed her answers? Her debate performance was a result of practice and a firm grasp of the issues, unlike Trump. I guess to Trump supporters that's a feat so impossible, one could only cheat to achieve it. The bar could not possibly be any lower for him. It's really sad that you are so quick to spread conspiracy theories that you probably heard about on facebook. You see what you want to see. Apparently you didn't notice that both candidates were wearing mics, and you would love to believe that Hillary had an earpiece. I guess believing that would help take the sting out of Trump's sub par performance. I would be really embarrassed to be that gullible, so easily falling for every insane conspiracy theory floating around on the internet. Then passing them on, assuming others are stupid enough to fall for them too. It's also been suggested that the wire under her jacket could have been a "cough prevention machine".
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Randall Webmaster Posts: 70518 From: Saturn next to Charmaine Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 29, 2016 12:17 PM
They both wore mics. But she wore an earpiece. She acted as if she were reading a teleprompter. According to many polls, Trump crushed her. According to polls in general, Trump is ahead in almost every state.IP: Logged |
Bluejay Knowflake Posts: 768 From: Registered: Jun 2013
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posted September 29, 2016 02:47 PM
Trump did not win the debate in any of the credible scientific polls. He was way ahead in many online surveys, which is obviously very supsicious. Those surveys are easily spammed since it's easy to vote multiple times. Also the night of the debate members on reddit called for Trump supporters to go to all of these various online surveys and vote Trump the winner. Now that the scientific polls are out Hillary is leading in all of them.I saw that so called picture of an earpiece, which only shows her earlobe. It makes absolutely no sense that if Hillary had an earpiece she would wear it in her left ear. Her hair is covering her other ear, and her left ear was facing the camera more. That's just nonsense. The pic showing a wire and battery pack under Hillary's jacket are all over conspiracy sites saying it's proof that she had an earpiece. Trump's supporters are so desperate to make excuses for him, and the only tactic they can use is to try to make Hillary look like she cheated. I'm curious who people think was "whispering in her ear"? She was a lawyer, First Lady, a Senator, and Secretary of State. She is perfectly capable of having a good debate performance on her own, and doesn't need help from anyone. It was obvious that she had practiced and many of her answers sounded scripted, but anyone that takes the job of the presidency seriously would practice and make sure they were on their A game. I think she missed many opportunities to shut Trump down because she was relying on her rehearsed answers, rather than responding on the fly. Trump thinks he's so good that he can wing it, but after the first 20 minutes he started to unravel. It's no conspiracy against him, it's that he was unprepared and it showed. IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 70518 From: Saturn next to Charmaine Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 29, 2016 03:23 PM
Actually, she's not much of a lawyer with all of the unlawful acts she has committed, not to mention the unethical considerations. And no, she's not a good debater on her own. Obama tore her to shreds. She was repeating what she was told.IP: Logged |
Bluejay Knowflake Posts: 768 From: Registered: Jun 2013
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posted September 29, 2016 03:45 PM
I guess since she's so corrupt and unlawful she must be a good enough lawyer to dodge all those charges.Once again Randall, who do you and the other conspiracy theorists think was giving her answers? I don't think you realize how incredibly foolish you sound by sticking to this absurd theory. IP: Logged |
Delilah423 Knowflake Posts: 635 From: Registered: Aug 2013
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posted September 29, 2016 04:46 PM
"Trump is ahead in almost every state."That is one of those half-truths that means absolutely nothing. The Electoral College is based mostly upon population of the states, not just the number of states. The most current projection has Mrs. Clinton leading in the Electoral College 293 to 245 (rounded). It takes 270 to become President. As for who won the debate, the only remotely scientific polls show that people think she "won" by somewhere around 20 to 30 percentage points. That said, I think discussing who "won" a debate is mostly pointless, and I don't put much weight in polls, as the only one that matters is the actual vote on Election Day. I do think it will be a close vote, which frightens and nauseates me because it means there a lot more people in this country who are more ignorant and/or more hateful, racist, sexist and xenophobic than I ever imagined. ETA: Even if it did matter, he's ahead in only about 1/2 the states, not "almost all" the states. IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 70518 From: Saturn next to Charmaine Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 29, 2016 07:39 PM
It has nothing to do with her lawyering skills and more to do with bribery. Attorneys are supposed to have a code of ethics. What is most appalling is that so many are voting for the most corrupt individual to ever run for political office. And when Dems get desperate, they always pull the race card, despite the Dems being the ones responsible for perpetuating racial divisiveness and keeping inner city Blacks in subjugation for decades. But on November 3, voters are going to swarm the polls en masse for Trump and take back the country from the grip of tyrannical corruption and lawlessness.IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 70518 From: Saturn next to Charmaine Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 29, 2016 09:19 PM
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum26/HTML/003014.html IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 70518 From: Saturn next to Charmaine Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 29, 2016 09:57 PM
Hateful, racist, sexist, and xenophobic? Hillary viciously attacked the women Bill assaulted and called Trump supporters deplorables. Sounds rather hateful to me. Bill made racial slurs against Obama. And the KKK leader, Byrn, was Hillary's mentor. Her camp called the women who Bill assaulted bimbos and floozies. And Hillary was all for building a fence/wall in 2008. Pot calling kettle black much?IP: Logged |
Delilah423 Knowflake Posts: 635 From: Registered: Aug 2013
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posted September 30, 2016 10:57 AM
Randall,I'm not sure whether to feel sorry for you for believing conspiracy theories and other "made up out of thin air" clap trap, or to be incensed because you deliberately repeat false, idiotic, vicious, hateful gossip. USA Today has, for the first time in its history, taken sides (sort of) in a Presidential election. USA Today is not "liberal media." Here are the reasons why they know that Donald Trump is not fit to be President: "He is erratic. Trump has been on so many sides of so many issues that attempting to assess his policy positions is like shooting at a moving target. A list prepared by NBC details 124 shifts by Trump on 20 major issues since shortly before he entered the race. He simply spouts slogans and outcomes (he’d replace Obamacare with “something terrific”) without any credible explanations of how he’d achieve them. He is ill-equipped to be commander in chief. Trump’s foreign policy pronouncements typically range from uninformed to incoherent. It’s not just Democrats who say this. Scores of Republican national security leaders have signed an extraordinary open letter calling Trump’s foreign policy vision “wildly inconsistent and unmoored in principle.” In a Wall Street Journal column this month, Robert Gates, the highly respected former Defense secretary who served presidents of both parties over a half-century, described Trump as “beyond repair.” He traffics in prejudice. From the very beginning, Trump has built his campaign on appeals to bigotry and xenophobia, whipping up resentment against Mexicans, Muslims and migrants. His proposals for mass deportations and religious tests are unworkable and contrary to America’s ideals. Trump has stirred racist sentiments in ways that can’t be erased by his belated and clumsy outreach to African Americans. His attacks on an Indiana-born federal judge of Mexican heritage fit “the textbook definition of a racist comment,” according to House Speaker Paul Ryan, the highest-ranking elected official in the Republican Party. And for five years, Trump fanned the absurd “birther” movement that falsely questioned the legitimacy of the nation’s first black president. His business career is checkered. Trump has built his candidacy on his achievements as a real estate developer and entrepreneur. It’s a shaky scaffold, starting with a 1973 Justice Department suit against Trump and his father for systematically discriminating against blacks in housing rentals. (The Trumps fought the suit but later settled on terms that were viewed as a government victory.) Trump’s companies have had some spectacular financial successes, but this track record is marred by six bankruptcy filings, apparent misuse of the family’s charitable foundation, and allegations by Trump University customers of fraud. A series of investigative articles published by the USA TODAY Network found that Trump has been involved in thousands of lawsuits over the past three decades, including at least 60 that involved small businesses and contract employees who said they were stiffed. So much for being a champion of the little guy. He isn’t leveling with the American people. Is Trump as rich as he says? No one knows, in part because, alone among major party presidential candidates for the past four decades, he refuses to release his tax returns. Nor do we know whether he has paid his fair share of taxes, or the extent of his foreign financial entanglements. He speaks recklessly. In the days after the Republican convention, Trump invited Russian hackers to interfere with an American election by releasing Hillary Clinton’s emails, and he raised the prospect of “Second Amendment people” preventing the Democratic nominee from appointing liberal justices. It’s hard to imagine two more irresponsible statements from one presidential candidate. He has coarsened the national dialogue. Did you ever imagine that a presidential candidate would discuss the size of his genitalia during a nationally televised Republican debate? Neither did we. Did you ever imagine a presidential candidate, one who avoided service in the military, would criticize Gold Star parents who lost a son in Iraq? Neither did we. Did you ever imagine you’d see a presidential candidate mock a disabled reporter? Neither did we. Trump’s inability or unwillingness to ignore criticism raises the specter of a president who, like Richard Nixon, would create enemies’ lists and be consumed with getting even with his critics. He’s a serial liar. Although polls show that Clinton is considered less honest and trustworthy than Trump, it’s not even a close contest. Trump is in a league of his own when it comes to the quality and quantity of his misstatements. When confronted with a falsehood, such as his assertion that he was always against the Iraq War, Trump’s reaction is to use the Big Lie technique of repeating it so often that people begin to believe it... Nor does this editorial represent unqualified support for Hillary Clinton, who has her own flaws (though hers are far less likely to threaten national security or lead to a constitutional crisis)..." IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 8787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 30, 2016 11:07 AM
I'm not one for conspiracy theories. I've debunked several here over the years but here's some video that's hard to explain.In the video embedded in this article there's a light/screen on Hillary's podium at the debate. It appears to be about 2 inches high and about 10-12 inches long. It's not a reading light, there's a wooden divider between this light bar and Hillary's notes. As the debate ends, this light bar slowly fades into dark, like a screen. Immediately after the debate, while people and candidates are milling around on the stage, at least 3 different people approach Hillary's podium and remove material/objects from her podium. One of these people makes a trek to the moderator, Lester Holt with the notes he removed from Hillary's podium in his hand. Both Holt and this guy have their backs turned to the cameras. This guy was at Hillary's podium several times after the debate. He can be seen looking around...not at the podium but at other people on the stage as though he thinks someone may be watching what he's doing. There is no lit light screen at Trump's podium and there's no activity around Trump's podium after the debate. It's suspicious as hell. It "appears" there was a Teleprompter built into Hillary's podium. It also "appears" she made notes from teleprompter prompts which were scooped up and removed. And/or perhaps Hillary had a list of questions the Moderator would ask. Other objects were also removed from Hillary's podium. All this occurred while Hillary, Trump and their families were still on the stage. This activity occurred behind all the other people on stage, people who were facing towards the audience. Wonder what all the rush was to remove this material from Hillary's podium. “The Cleaner” Part II – Cleaner Identified – The Plot Thickens… September 29, 2016 sundance Unfortunately, this post is going to be severely fragmented. Our apologies in advance. However, if anyone can clean up these videos please notify us ASAP in the comments. You’ll see what I mean. Earlier during our initial review of the debate we identified something that looked entirely suspicious because it is only evidenced for one specific candidate, and one specific lectern. We initially drew attention to it as “The Cleaner”: Well, this intrigue just got a whole lot more interesting. See “The Cleaner” at work here immediately following the debate: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/09/29/the-cleaner-part-ii-cleaner-identified-the-plot-thickens/
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Delilah423 Knowflake Posts: 635 From: Registered: Aug 2013
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posted September 30, 2016 11:21 AM
Would someone explain to me why you believe Hillary Clinton would NEED a teleprompter or someone whispering in an earpiece in the debate?I don't get it. At all. What was so complicated about what she said that she couldn't have managed to say it on her own? IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 70518 From: Saturn next to Charmaine Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 30, 2016 12:05 PM
In my opinion, because she is a mental wreck. In others' opinions, because she is on medicine that affects her memory. A Clinton will finda way to cheat. It's in their DNA. She was obviously reading her replies, but I thought that to be impossible with no telepromptor around, so I elected to go with repeating what she was told. Her hand signals were odd, but it makes sense now. She was prompting the promptor. She rubbed her nose more than a coke head! IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 8787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 30, 2016 12:47 PM
"Would someone explain to me why you believe Hillary Clinton would NEED a teleprompter or someone whispering in an earpiece in the debate?"Don't tell me you've bought into the tripe that Hillary The Corrupt is the smartest woman ever to trod the earth in Birkenstocks. Let's not forget Hillary flunked the Washington D.C. bar exam. And I don't mean she thought Martinis are made with Jack Daniels. I would put Hillary The Corrupt's intelligence on the same level as the Marxist Messiah, Obama's...the guy dubbed "President Teleprompter". Btw, did you watch the embedded videos or are you just bloviating off the top of your head? IP: Logged |
Node Knowflake Posts: 2672 From: 2,021 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 30, 2016 05:27 PM
quote: Originally posted by Delilah423: Randall,I'm not sure whether to feel sorry for you for believing conspiracy theories and other "made up out of thin air" clap trap, or to be incensed because you deliberately repeat false, idiotic, vicious, hateful gossip. USA Today has, for the first time in its history, taken sides (sort of) in a Presidential election. USA Today is not "liberal media." Here are the reasons why they know that Donald Trump is not fit to be President: "He is erratic. Trump has been on so many sides of so many issues that attempting to assess his policy positions is like shooting at a moving target. A list prepared by NBC details 124 shifts by Trump on 20 major issues since shortly before he entered the race. He simply spouts slogans and outcomes (he’d replace Obamacare with “something terrific”) without any credible explanations of how he’d achieve them. He is ill-equipped to be commander in chief. Trump’s foreign policy pronouncements typically range from uninformed to incoherent. It’s not just Democrats who say this. Scores of Republican national security leaders have signed an extraordinary open letter calling Trump’s foreign policy vision “wildly inconsistent and unmoored in principle.” In a Wall Street Journal column this month, Robert Gates, the highly respected former Defense secretary who served presidents of both parties over a half-century, described Trump as “beyond repair.” He traffics in prejudice. From the very beginning, Trump has built his campaign on appeals to bigotry and xenophobia, whipping up resentment against Mexicans, Muslims and migrants. His proposals for mass deportations and religious tests are unworkable and contrary to America’s ideals. Trump has stirred racist sentiments in ways that can’t be erased by his belated and clumsy outreach to African Americans. His attacks on an Indiana-born federal judge of Mexican heritage fit “the textbook definition of a racist comment,” according to House Speaker Paul Ryan, the highest-ranking elected official in the Republican Party. And for five years, Trump fanned the absurd “birther” movement that falsely questioned the legitimacy of the nation’s first black president. His business career is checkered. Trump has built his candidacy on his achievements as a real estate developer and entrepreneur. It’s a shaky scaffold, starting with a 1973 Justice Department suit against Trump and his father for systematically discriminating against blacks in housing rentals. (The Trumps fought the suit but later settled on terms that were viewed as a government victory.) Trump’s companies have had some spectacular financial successes, but this track record is marred by six bankruptcy filings, apparent misuse of the family’s charitable foundation, and allegations by Trump University customers of fraud. A series of investigative articles published by the USA TODAY Network found that Trump has been involved in thousands of lawsuits over the past three decades, including at least 60 that involved small businesses and contract employees who said they were stiffed. So much for being a champion of the little guy. He isn’t leveling with the American people. Is Trump as rich as he says? No one knows, in part because, alone among major party presidential candidates for the past four decades, he refuses to release his tax returns. Nor do we know whether he has paid his fair share of taxes, or the extent of his foreign financial entanglements. He speaks recklessly. In the days after the Republican convention, Trump invited Russian hackers to interfere with an American election by releasing Hillary Clinton’s emails, and he raised the prospect of “Second Amendment people” preventing the Democratic nominee from appointing liberal justices. It’s hard to imagine two more irresponsible statements from one presidential candidate. He has coarsened the national dialogue. Did you ever imagine that a presidential candidate would discuss the size of his genitalia during a nationally televised Republican debate? Neither did we. Did you ever imagine a presidential candidate, one who avoided service in the military, would criticize Gold Star parents who lost a son in Iraq? Neither did we. Did you ever imagine you’d see a presidential candidate mock a disabled reporter? Neither did we. Trump’s inability or unwillingness to ignore criticism raises the specter of a president who, like Richard Nixon, would create enemies’ lists and be consumed with getting even with his critics. He’s a serial liar. Although polls show that Clinton is considered less honest and trustworthy than Trump, it’s not even a close contest. Trump is in a league of his own when it comes to the quality and quantity of his misstatements. When confronted with a falsehood, such as his assertion that he was always against the Iraq War, Trump’s reaction is to use the Big Lie technique of repeating it so often that people begin to believe it... Nor does this editorial represent unqualified support for Hillary Clinton, who has her own flaws (though hers are far less likely to threaten national security or lead to a constitutional crisis)..."
You noticed Delilah that all of the facts you posted were disregarded? Deflected & Disregarded. Instead of focusing on facts our twosome usually pick at sources, not issues...familiar? Karl Rove [infamously] created tactics such as those used most frequently on the far right web. Your repost & additional comments are appreciated by logical people. Failed-went on to SCJ Many people who have gone on to succeed- have failed the bar in one state, & succeeded in another. Different test? Don't know. Regardless: The Far Right will continue to fill the web with non-issue issues. Do we think for a moment that Barack Obama telling the world that he not only was NOT filing...BUT, had not - Paid - Would be viewed with the same nonchalance? IP: Logged |
Catalina Knowflake Posts: 3529 From: shamballa Registered: Aug 2013
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posted September 30, 2016 11:21 PM
Perhaps if the link worked people would watch the video jwhop.I believe Abe Lincoln failed the bar exam multiple times before passing it. The amount of taxpayer money wasted on grilling Clinton and coming up empty could have fed every hungry child in the country for a year. I feel for you guys.. you can almost taste it can't you? But your Big Daddy with the superior genes is even more corrupt than most politicians, including Clinton. He admitted straight out of the gate...he has been paying politicians to look kindly on him for decades..despite considering that a really corrupt practice. Just like everything else he justifies by saying "everyone does it" and " if a law makes stealing legal I'll use it".. I paraphrase of course but since you seem to admire him for it I don't think you'll have any arguments IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 8787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 01, 2016 08:16 AM
I don't know why the link I posted doesn't work as a "hot link".But once again, let me help you out. Copy the link I posted and paste it to your search window...then hit the enter key on your keyboard. That may be entirely too much work for some of the terminally lazy. Or, it may be that some don't want to see anything that challenges their pre-conceived notions that Hillary The Corrupt is the most intelligent woman ever to trod the earth...and doesn't need to cheat in debates. IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 70518 From: Saturn next to Charmaine Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 01, 2016 10:24 AM
You have to remove the "s" in the http for it to link. IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 8787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 01, 2016 02:13 PM
Thanks Randall. No more excuses for not looking at what you really don't want to see Catalina. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/09/29/the-cleaner-part-ii-cle aner-identified-the-plot-thickens/ IP: Logged | |