posted March 02, 2021 01:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by shura:
The Ready will subdue their emotional response, yes. Or rather they will explore and assess the emotional response.
However, what I'm getting at is Readiness bespeaks discernment. ie The Ready can identify readiness in others and proceed accordingly, and also determine to what degree a "hurtful" statement is useful or simply a product of the speaker's own issues.

ofc all this requires much practice and usually careful guidance.

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posted March 03, 2021 05:02 AM            

So, are we looking to conclude on the best way forward?

Randall suggested that more active moderators would help, and Graham suggested a forum for moderators to facilitate teamwork. IMHO one of these without the other would leave us with probably the same issues, so I think both would need to be implemented if we are going to improve this aspect of LL.

Are there any further thoughts on this?

posted March 03, 2021 05:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
It wasn't my original intent for this thread to become a problem-solving exercise, but it went that way because of the brilliant hive mind on LL, and I think that indicates that members feel that things could be improved (I agree).

So, are we looking to conclude on the best way forward?

Randall suggested that more active moderators would help, and Graham suggested a forum for moderators to facilitate teamwork. IMHO one of these without the other would leave us with probably the same issues, so I think both would need to be implemented if we are going to improve this aspect of LL.

Are there any further thoughts on this?

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A forum board for members to seek explanations from moderators about why they have taken a particular course of action with them, or a thread/comment of theirs.

It need not be a requirement for the Mod to provide an explanation, but it can be very cathartic for members to just have somewhere to vent about what seems (to them) to be an inappropriate action/comment by a Mod. ... And sometimes, another member will provide the explanation that is being sought/missed by the aggrieved member.

For example, I still remain angry about a comment made to (and about) me by Randall ... and with a decision made by Kannon to move a thread of mine (that I believe belongs on the astrology2 board) to a non-astrological board.

I sought an explanation from both ... but received an explanation from neither. And, that is ok.

posted March 03, 2021 05:52 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Graham:
A forum board for members to seek explanations from moderators about why they have taken a particular course of action with them, or a thread/comment of theirs.

It need not be a requirement for the Mod to provide an explanation, but it can be very cathartic for members to just have somewhere to vent about what seems (to them) to be an inappropriate action/comment by a Mod. ... And sometimes, another member will provide the explanation that is being sought/missed by the aggrieved member.

For example, I still remain angry about a comment made to (and about) me by Randall ... and with a decision made by Kannon to move a thread of mine (that I believe belongs on the astrology2 board) to a non-astrological board.

I sought an explanation from both ... but received an explanation from neither. And, that is ok.

However, what is not ok is that there is nowhere on this forum for me to explain/vent about my actual intentions vs their perception of my intentions. ... And being unable to do that has meant that the anger has gone within, where it inevitable moves on over time to become resentment.

---

Yes, I think it is important that decisions are explained and members given the opportunity to explain their side to the decision-maker. It may or may not change the decision, but the good thing about this is that everyone has a voice and the member is given the respect they deserve. This should also help create/maintain respectful relationships between the mod team and the members.

Great idea Graham.

posted March 03, 2021 06:24 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Yes, I think it is important that decisions are explained and members given the opportunity to explain their side to the decision-maker. It may or may not change the decision, but the good thing about this is that everyone has a voice and the member is given the respect they deserve. This should also help create/maintain respectful relationships between the mod team and the members.

Great idea Graham.

---

This would be good. I was a member of a board whose moderators ended up being pretty militant - you weren't allowed to talk about moderation on the board, OR question them privately. When I did, I was banned. They let me go back under a new name (one of the mods knew me, and thought the other one was too harsh), but I didn't want to be there after a while. The one mod was openly hostile to people, obviously had issues, and the owner of the site only showed up at the end of 2019, finally taking care of the awful mod, too.

posted March 03, 2021 06:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by teasel:
This would be good. I was a member of a board whose moderators ended up being pretty militant - you weren't allowed to talk about moderation on the board, OR question them privately. When I did, I was banned. They let me go back under a new name (one of the mods knew me, and thought the other one was too harsh), but I didn't want to be there after a while. The one mod was openly hostile to people, obviously had issues, and the owner of the site only showed up at the end of 2019, finally taking care of the awful mod, too.

Graham, I don't know if you tried to email Kannon, but I give him credit for listening to me, when I emailed him last Spring (after he kind of scolded me in a thread). I took my issue to him privately, rather than derailing the thread.

---

It did not occur to me to make contact via e-mail, and I understood Kannon's reasoning in deciding to move the thread to a non-astrological board.

However, that would not have provided a solution for me ... as my concern is that I had no non-disruptive mechanism for publicly explaining/venting about why I disagree with his reasoning.

posted March 03, 2021 07:21 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Graham:
It did not occur to me to make contact via e-mail, and I understood Kannon's reasoning in deciding to move the thread to a non-astrological board.

However, that would not have provided a solution for me ... as my concern is that I had no non-disruptive mechanism for [b]publicly explaining/venting about why I disagree with his reasoning.

[/B]

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posted March 03, 2021 08:42 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by teasel:
If it's the thread that I remember, that was moved to LLC2, there were people who agreed with you, and it was known how you felt. I know what it's like, to not have something acknowledged, or fully dealt with, but emailing might have helped.

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In moving it to that non-astrological board, Kannon had stated (on 11th September 2020) that "childhood conditioning is not an astrological topic" - which I consider to be an open attack upon psychological astrology, that needed to be publicly challenged-and-discussed (particularly since it was made by a professional astrologer whose views fledgling astrologers are likely to adopt without questioning/exploring adequately).

posted March 03, 2021 08:54 AM            

I can see why it was moved, it did not appear to have astrology as its overarching theme.

However, had the OP sought to explore conditioning from an astrological standpoint, I doubt it would have been moved.

posted March 03, 2021 12:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
After looking at the thread, I'm going to chip in here. While I agree that conditioning IS something that can be explored astrologically, OP did not state that in this thread that conditioning was being approached astrologically. And from the first page, not a lot of astrology was discussed.

I can see why it was moved, it did not appear to have astrology as its overarching theme.

However, had the OP sought to explore conditioning from an astrological standpoint, I doubt it would have been moved.

---

I also can see why it was moved, and am grateful to the several members who invested time in explaining it to me after it was moved.

Nevertheless, I would have liked to have a public/open discussion about why "childhood conditioning is not an astrological topic" ... and why my decision to post the topic on the astrology2 board was not an indication that (in my opinion) it was an astrology topic. ... And I would have liked the moderator who made both the statement and the decision to have participated in that discussion.

My point here on this GU2 thread is that the absence of a board for members to raise such issues with Mods has resulted in my frustration/anger being internalised (for some 5 months now).

The opportunity/time to debate the specific incident has passed. ... What matters now is that there was not a non-disruptive mechanism for my frustration to be addressed.
_________________________________________________________________

quote:

---

had the OP sought to explore conditioning from an astrological standpoint, I doubt it would have been moved

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posted March 03, 2021 12:31 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eternal Energy:
All of you who are writing on this thread are great people that I respect for their wisdom, their knowledge, their loyalty and their integrity. Each one of you is a very important person for this place and your contribution here is invaluable. It is you who are making this place beautiful, because your hearts, your characters and your presence are all beautiful. Let's remember the big picture, let's remember all the good things.

---

I agree 100% with you on this, EE. ... But the big picture here requires the not-so-good things about the LL forum to be highlighted and addressed.

posted March 03, 2021 12:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Graham:
It did not occur to me to make contact via e-mail, and I understood Kannon's reasoning in deciding to move the thread to a non-astrological board.

However, that would not have provided a solution for me ...
as my concern is that I had no non-disruptive mechanism for publicly explaining/venting about why I disagree with his reasoning.

---

*italics mine*

I had my first reading by a professional master-astrologer of many years' experience back around 2011. Without conversation with me, he astrologically SAW and pinpointed (the abuse) that I 'experienced' in childhood within a few minutes of beginning that reading. It SHOCKED me, to *be seen*.

Graham, The person you speak about deals with huge wounds from events that make psychological issues too difficult to moderate.

Referring here to your Chiron placement--
Chiron conjunct Sun, in 3rd House, with Sun-Chiron otherwise traditionally-unaspected.
Core wound of that placement deals with subtle programmed belief that
"Being me is wrong. I should hide!"

Sun deals with males, or persons representing authority-over.
3rd House Chiron can deal with self's wounds around one's Thinking ability and Intelligence..
"I am not smart enough."
(3rd also involves sibling (peer-type) relationships?).

I too have a traditionally unaspected Sun, making aspect with Chiron.
(air-trine) in earth-cusped houses
6th, and 2nd Houses
2nd House, Self-esteem and confidence.

*~
The ability to spit-out astrological mental information does not mean the astrologer has a grasp on how it works in another person's life.

Like the comment I left about "objectivity" (on the previous page). Some people think it is a sign of superiority to be a stone, to act with callousness towards other humans.

. .
. .

The above-statement is partially influenced by
RE to USA Politics --
and is a reflection of the profound dismay I feel with UNWISE decisions made by a few unintelligent and inhumane politicals...
Affects my health directly.
They are in the process of SABOTAGING the success of USA Group Efforts.
'Here we go again'
Sisyphus
Unlike the mythology of pushing the rock to the ledge, then having it roll down over him to have to Start-Over, .. The failure to reach hard-worked for goals, represents LIVES Lost.

posted March 03, 2021 12:44 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Graham:
But the OP [b]was seeking to explore conditioning from an astrological standpoint - because childhood conditioning is the foundation stone of astrological psychology.[/B]

---

There was nothing in the title or the 1st page of thread to indicate it was about astrology. To me that would look like 'Let's discuss aspects or placements which can help us understand conditioning', or something of that ilk.

I think because LL has non-astrological forums, threads which do not explicitly state anything about astrology will get moved.

I do agree that a forum for discussing decisions could be helpful if people don't understand a moderator's decision. But in this case, it appears that Kannon was following the rules, which is to move threads to the correct forum, based on the fact that there wasn't (from what I can see) anything to indicate it was about astrology. The answer is to be explicit with the title or the OP.

posted March 03, 2021 12:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eternal Energy:
All of you who are writing on this thread are great people that I respect for their wisdom, their knowledge, their loyalty and their integrity. Each one of you is a very important person for this place and your contribution here is invaluable. It is you who are making this place beautiful, because your hearts, your characters and your presence are all beautiful. Let's remember the big picture, let's remember all the good things.

---

Thank you EE - there IS a lot to appreciate about LL Unfortunately though small irritations can become big disruptions, so it is also good to work through problems if they arise.

posted March 03, 2021 12:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eternal Energy:
All of you who are writing on this thread are great people that I respect for their wisdom, their knowledge, their loyalty and their integrity. Each one of you is a very important person for this place and your contribution here is invaluable. It is you who are making this place beautiful, because your hearts, your characters and your presence are all beautiful. Let's remember the big picture, let's remember all the good things.

---

posted March 03, 2021 01:10 PM            

There's a lot of forums to visit here, a LOT of reading. Due to some difficult introductory experiences that have persisted with personalities since the beginning of my posting at LL, I chose rather, to put my efforts elsewhere. So much reading involved in the other forums. Impossible to keep up.

posted March 03, 2021 01:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
*italics mine*
The person you speak about deals with huge wounds from events that make psychological issues too difficult to moderate.

Referring here to your Chiron placement--
Chiron conjunct Sun, in 3rd House, with Sun-Chiron otherwise traditionally-unaspected.
Core wound of that placement deals with subtle programmed belief that
"Being me is wrong. I should hide!"

Sun deals with males, or persons representing authority-over.
3rd House Chiron can deal with self's wounds around one's Thinking ability and Intelligence..
"I am not smart enough."
(3rd also involves sibling (peer-type) relationships?).

The ability to spit-out astrological mental information does not mean the astrologer has a grasp on how it works in another person's life.

Like the comment I left about "objectivity" (on the previous page). Some people think it is a sign of superiority to be a stone, to act with callousness towards other humans.

. .
. .

The above-statement is partially influenced by
RE to USA Politics --
and is a reflection of the profound dismay I feel with UNWISE decisions made by a few unintelligent and inhumane politicals...
Affects my health directly.
They are in the process of SABOTAGING the success of USA Group Efforts.
'Here we go again'
Sisyphus
Unlike the mythology of pushing the rock to the ledge, then having it roll down over him to have to Start-Over, .. The failure to reach hard-worked for goals, represents LIVES Lost.

And since I-myself am vulnerable---
and live here unresourced and unprotected, with lack of caring-towards my needs.
For a long time, blind irresponsibility of others has caused harm to me.
This sloppy-leading by politicals is unthinkable.
I've been alone in trying to self-care.

{And dealing with *sonics* has been wearing me out.}

---

posted March 03, 2021 01:31 PM            

quote:

---

Are you telling me that I am behaving irresponsibly by raising this rather than letting it go, mirage?

---

Not a single bit, Graham.
I ADMIRE the way you have stepped up, and you 'take care of yourself' here.

You are an inspiration to me.
I have failed my own self, by lacking the qualities you display.

posted March 03, 2021 01:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
There was nothing in the title or the 1st page of thread to indicate it was about astrology. To me that would look like 'Let's discuss aspects or placements which can help us understand conditioning', or something of that ilk.

I think because LL has non-astrological forums, threads which do not explicitly state anything about astrology will get moved.

I do agree that a forum for discussing decisions could be helpful if people don't understand a moderator's decision. But in this case, it appears that Kannon was following the rules, which is to move threads to the correct forum, based on the fact that there wasn't (from what I can see) anything to indicate it was about astrology. The answer is to be explicit with the title or the OP.

---

Then ... had I been the moderator ... I would have applied the unwritten rule that rules are there to guide, rather than to rigidly enforce - and left the thread on the astrology2 board.

There is an enormous difference between knowingly and unknowingly breaking the rules.

posted March 03, 2021 01:38 PM            

The Letter of the Law brings death,
the Spirit of the Law {using higher understanding} brings life.

posted March 03, 2021 02:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Graham:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
[b] There was nothing in the title or the 1st page of thread to indicate it was about astrology. To me that would look like 'Let's discuss aspects or placements which can help us understand conditioning', or something of that ilk.

I think because LL has non-astrological forums, threads which do not explicitly state anything about astrology will get moved.

I do agree that a forum for discussing decisions could be helpful if people don't understand a moderator's decision. But in this case, it appears that Kannon was following the rules, which is to move threads to the correct forum, based on the fact that there wasn't (from what I can see) anything to indicate it was about astrology. The answer is to be explicit with the title or the OP.

---

quote:

---

No. The answer was to point out to the uninitiated OP that he was not complying with the rules, and to explain why (so that he would not do so again).

Then ... had I been the moderator ... I would have applied the unwritten rule that rules are there to guide, rather than to rigidly enforce - and left the thread on the astrology2 board.

There is an enormous difference between knowingly and unknowingly breaking the rules.

---

I'm not saying you broke the rules Graham. There are rules for moderators too and one of them is to move threads to the correct forum. So Kannon was following the rules (as a moderator). Sorry if that wasn't clear from my post.

I've already agreed that the decision should have been explained to you, usually the moderator puts a note at the bottom of the thread (the one in the incorrect forum) to explain why and where it has been moved.

posted March 03, 2021 02:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
To have moved Graham's thread to non-astrological Sweet Peas wouldn't have generated the scale of discussion he was looking for.

There's a lot of forums to visit here, a LOT of reading. Due to some difficult introductory experiences that have persisted with personalities since the beginning of my posting at LL, I chose rather, to put my efforts elsewhere. So much reading involved in the other forums. Impossible to keep up.

Voix, I add materials to your excellent Socially Aware thread, Global Suicide Crisis Hotline thread, and will *bump* that when I spot individual needs in other forums. Otherwise, I pass that by.

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I know you do Mirage, and I really appreciate that you bump it when relevant. Sweet Peas doesn't get much traffic these days, but hopefully those who need to will see the thread in 'today's posts' section if it's bumped. Thank you for this

posted March 03, 2021 10:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
Voix, I wasn't blaming you for losing a member. I stated it only to reinforce that I try to remain impartial and that I try to support the decisions of Mods and generally defer to their discretion.

---