posted August 13, 2012 09:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

How did you know? lol.

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Hey now, I'm a Sag sun and I'm very neat and organized.

posted August 13, 2012 09:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
This doesn't surprise me. Ime, it's hard to find smokers who are clean. If I could go back in time I'd deem it the dealbreaker that it should have been

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posted August 13, 2012 10:17 AM            

or

posted August 13, 2012 01:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

How did you know? lol.

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Well a couple reasons, but what you describe isn't a good sign. When Sag feels restricted, without any avenue for release, they 1) turn inward (like spending their time sitting on a balcony looking out at the horizon) and 2) stop caring about the physical state of the world (because their energies are invested in imaginary pursuits like philosophy, numbing their self to the feeling of being restricted, or conquering the next adventure in a video game).

My friend's Sagittarian dad was a big foot ball player in high school, with a promising future, and a lot of social prospects, but after an injury and getting his wife pregnant all those possibilities vanished. He used to spend all day in the garage, getting sh!t-faced drunk, and watching sports on a little tv. I don't know what is restricting your Sag, but he is showing all the signs of sad pony in a little pen.

Was he banished to the balcony? If he feels the balcony is the only place he is welcome to relax without restriction, that could be a reason. Has he voiced wanting to make a big domestic or career move, but been unable to for some reason? Is he mourning some sort of ideal he maintained in the past which is impossible to re-capture in the present?

I think a better course of action than threatening him, would be to randomly take him on an adventure. Some beautiful place in nature, away from the city. Take him on a jog or out for some physical activity if that is his thing, take him to a museum and a picnic under a dinosaur...whatever, be creative. Then tell him you were noticing he seemed a bit stir crazy, that you love him and you want to know what has been going on with him. Plan to hear things you may not want to hear if any of his restrictions come from you. Realize he isn't blaming you, he is just answering your question about why he feels the way he feels. Be open to his feelings, because denying him their expression is more restriction. Inspire him to make plans (and make plans to support him in those plans from now on). Talk about cleaning the balcony together as a cathartic ritual in clearing out and starting things in a new way. Then when he seems to have lightened up a bit, screw his brains out in the bushes, phone booth, car, at home...any or all of theses places.

The next day follow up with him on the balcony cleaning and invite him to spend more time in other parts of the house.

I know this sounds like rewarding him for being a slob or holding his hand, but being a slob is a symptom of a greater problem. Treating him with kindness and understanding reminds him that he is not stuck, because he has a partner who he can count on. Just like Aquarius, Sag emotions are not particularly watery. We show signs of distress through odd behavior. With Aquarius it can manifest as neurosis, and with Sag it is generally depression or antisocial behavior.

Which leads me to another question.. is he banished to the balcony because you have been feeling a bit neurotic? If so, you may both need to look at your emotional states. I recently reconnected with an Aquarian ex and we had a blast until she started telling me how horrible of a boyfriend I was. All my memories of our relationship were great so it threw me for a loop. Hearing how frustrated she was made me frustrated. Both because she never mentioned or showed signs of disliking our relationship (therefore leaving me in a position where I was unable to resolve those issues) and because most of the things she accused me of doing or expecting of her were completely made up. She even told me she became anorexic because I wanted her to be skinny... I just loved her for her, I never even considered her weight and in fact considered her a bit thin (though never mentioned it because it just wasn't an important factor in why I liked her). I certainly never wanted her to starve her self. She still to this day insists it was something I expected.

In your case, there is physical undeniable evidence that he is wallowing and being generally annoying. I'm therefor not implying you have made up his being a slob. I am suggesting however, investigating a broad perspective and being willing to accept that failed communication may be part of the problem.

SO...

In our busy lives sometimes we forget to take time out to reconnect, recreate, and reset. If you are very busy or involved people, make time for checking in and going out on adventures. My dad (Venus in Sag) used to call them "Sunday Funday" and they were little trips every week to keep our family sane. Also consider that you have nothing to do with the reason he is showing signs of depression. Whatever the case, the more emotional stagnancy he burns off, the less physical stagnancy will manifest.

posted August 13, 2012 07:20 PM            

His dream is for his band to get signed and go on tour. Recently, he's been a little worried as well because his guitarist recently started a side project band with a guy who is internationally known, and their song is charting high on iTunes. I guess there's two ways to look at it:
a) This will bring more exposure to my bf's band and help them get signed, or
b) His guitarist eventually ditches his band and goes on tour with his new side project and gets signed and becomes a big famous rock star... WITHOUT him. I can't control any of that happening. All I can do is empathize and support, and I do.

He's not "banished" to the balcony. We live in a small (but still ridiculously expensive) apartment and he's a smoker. He goes outside to smoke. When I said that smokers are never clean in my experience, unfortunately, I meant just that. Part of the problem is that I'll vacuum the carpet in the evening before he gets home from work, and when I wake up the next morning, there'll be flecks of tobacco and marijuana on the carpet again. There is seemingly no end to his capacity to create mess. I have to put away all of his laundry. He will literally just throw it into a pile on the floor. He is just fundamentally lazy, as stoners/smokers are.

I like the idea of a getaway. This summer, all of a sudden, I have become Ms. Popularity and I've become quite busy with my friends, many of them new, some of them old friendships reinvigorated (I credit Jupiter in Gemini). He tends to be too lazy to go anywhere or do anything (he used to put more effort into it the first year we were dating but now he's reverted to the person he was before we met, whose idea of a good Saturday is playing Playstation all day long), but he's expressed a sort of wistful desire to go camping or to a museum with me. He LOVES going to movies with me, and often invites me to watch NatGeo "reality"-type documentaries with him (the description of Aquarius men currently on Astrology 2.0 was so accurate for him it was uncanny. I wonder if it's because his rising sign is Aquarius). Again, it's about getting him to follow through. Maybe it's because he has sun and moon conjunct Neptune but it seems he's content to drift off in his mind or fantasize about doing stuff while his butt is firmly planted to the couch. He's big on the escapism. His archer bluntness can be a little hard to deal with many times. Like for instance, two summers ago he took me to Centre Island (it's a theme-type park here), and I asked him to go with me again earlier this summer and he responded in the crassest possible way. There is no such thing as diplomacy with him, but I've learned to live with that. He often says meanspirited things which he later regrets and apologizes/takes back.

posted August 13, 2012 07:29 PM            

For a common example, a guy says he's gonna go make pancakes (typically right after you cleaned the kitchen) and then like 3 minutes later he's asking if there's a special mix or do you just use Bisquick (to make pancakes...but then Bisquick has a pic of pancakes on the front so it's an honest mistake, right? ). He then acts baffled by instructions on adding eggs & milk and wonders why you can't just add water. And then (especially to keep him from turning your clean kitchen into a gooey mess again) you end up making the damn pancakes for him (and somehow resist the temptation to add in a cup of cayenne pepper)...and getting him some milk.

Come on, I'm sure many women know exactly what I'm talking about, and wondering if men like that are the idiots they're pretending to be or brilliant con-artists who trick women into serving him hand & foot.

posted August 13, 2012 07:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
....Part of the problem is that I'll vacuum the carpet in the evening before he gets home from work, and when I wake up the next morning, there'll be flecks of tobacco and marijuana on the carpet again. There is seemingly no end to his capacity to create mess. I have to put away all of his laundry. He will literally just throw it into a pile on the floor. He is just fundamentally lazy, as stoners/smokers are.

As for screwing his brains out, I'd love to. He is not up for it most of the time. I've had to get creative and basically rape him against his will. He's too lazy to do that as well . I think left to his own devices, he would initiate just less than once a month.

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@Aquacheeka,

Umm you have to do all that cleaning by yourself plus hardly any sex... Dealbreaker. Iam big on compromise and talking things out. But the lack of sex thing is a bit much, no?

posted August 13, 2012 07:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
Xiiro, the problem is, and maybe I didn't convey this properly, his being a lazy-a$$ is not new. That's basically why I'm asking how you reform someone who is fundamentally a lazy-a$$, messy person. His mother used to tell him to clean up. He refused. Sagittarians can be very defiant, as I'm sure you know. Occasionally, he will start cleaning something (like the balcony) but not finish, and that's frustrating to me as well.

His dream is for his band to get signed and go on tour. Recently, he's been a little worried as well because his guitarist recently started a side project band with a guy who is internationally known, and their song is charting high on iTunes. I guess there's two ways to look at it:
a) This will bring more exposure to my bf's band and help them get signed, or
b) His guitarist eventually ditches his band and goes on tour with his new side project and gets signed and becomes a big famous rock star... WITHOUT him. I can't control any of that happening. All I can do is empathize and support, and I do.

He's not "banished" to the balcony. We live in a small (but still ridiculously expensive) apartment and he's a smoker. He goes outside to smoke. When I said that smokers are never clean in my experience, unfortunately, I meant just that. Part of the problem is that I'll vacuum the carpet in the evening before he gets home from work, and when I wake up the next morning, there'll be flecks of tobacco and marijuana on the carpet again. There is seemingly no end to his capacity to create mess. I have to put away all of his laundry. He will literally just throw it into a pile on the floor. He is just fundamentally lazy, as stoners/smokers are.

I like the idea of a getaway. This summer, all of a sudden, I have become Ms. Popularity and I've become quite busy with my friends, many of them new, some of them old friendships reinvigorated (I credit Jupiter in Gemini). He tends to be too lazy to go anywhere or do anything (he used to put more effort into it the first year we were dating but now he's reverted to the person he was before we met, whose idea of a good Saturday is playing Playstation all day long), but he's expressed a sort of wistful desire to go camping or to a museum with me. He LOVES going to movies with me, and often invites me to watch NatGeo "reality"-type documentaries with him (the description of Aquarius men currently on Astrology 2.0 was so accurate for him it was uncanny. I wonder if it's because his rising sign is Aquarius). Again, it's about getting him to follow through. Maybe it's because he has sun and moon conjunct Neptune but it seems he's content to drift off in his mind or fantasize about doing stuff while his butt is firmly planted to the couch. He's big on the escapism. His archer bluntness can be a little hard to deal with many times. Like for instance, two summers ago he took me to Centre Island (it's a theme-type park here), and I asked him to go with me again earlier this summer and he responded in the crassest possible way. There is no such thing as diplomacy with him, but I've learned to live with that. He often says meanspirited things which he later regrets and apologizes/takes back.

As for screwing his brains out, I'd love to. He is not up for it most of the time. I've had to get creative and basically rape him against his will. He's too lazy to do that as well . I think left to his own devices, he would initiate just less than once a month.

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posted August 13, 2012 08:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ail221:
No cleaning, no diplomacy, diarrhea of the mouth, no fun and no sex. >___> yeah you must love him , I would have put him out.

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Well, I've seen an improvement in the frequency of sex lately, since I told him that if he didn't show me affection (sexual and just plain cuddling/intimacy), I was going to get it elsewhere and in fact already HAD crossed the line. I was pretty darn frustrated at that point. I figured he would break up with me, but instead he actually tried to reignite the spark. So I'm thinking he must really love me too to forgive me and actually take some responsibility for his part.

Well in any case, the skill has never been the problem, only the frequency .

posted August 13, 2012 08:09 PM            

But anyway this thread reminded me of a joke:

What do you call a musician who just broke up with his girlfriend?

posted August 13, 2012 08:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Junethird:
@Aquacheeka,

Umm you have to do all that cleaning by yourself plus hardly any sex... Dealbreaker. Iam big on compromise and talking things out. But the lack of sex thing is a bit much, no?

I had to let my brother crash with me for awhile and omg, it was a nightmare. I once asked him if he could clean the bathroom, he said, yeah sure no problem... 5 days later still no clean bathroom, it wasnt until we got into a screaming match that he "very loudly" started cleaning all the while muttering mean things about me being a dictator and such lol... They dont change.

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LOL! This sounds familiar. Occasionally he'll come home on a random Friday and do the dishes and tidy up a bit on a whim. I am supposed to just wait for the flash of inspiration to hit LOL.

posted August 13, 2012 08:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Let's not forget how smoke gets into everything. I can typically tell smokers & stoners by how they smell (because the smell is in their clothes and also their furniture & curtains at home, which others who share their vice can't tell, but I can).

But anyway this thread reminded me of a joke:

What do you call a musician who just broke up with his girlfriend?

Homeless

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It's so true but it's impossible for him to understand... almost everyone he knows is a smoker and those who don't smoke cigarettes still smoke weed. It's culturally inherited from his family; all of his family members smoke and his parents used to smoke AROUND him when he was young. I hate it but what can I do? He already goes outside.

posted August 13, 2012 08:26 PM            

Are your demands for neatness actually reasonable? I ask because you mention being a neat freak and "OCD" about it, which makes it sound (to me) like maybe you go to extremes on this. Would you be willing to compromise with him and have things be neater than they are now, without having to look perfect 24/7, 100% of the time? I'll tell you right now, as someone who is a messy person: when people nag and nitpick about the smallest things, or when people are so extremist that they are over-the-top and beyond normal, I tend not to take them seriously. I've said before: extremes annoy me. The more extreme and unreasonable someone is with me, the more I will not do what they want, just out of spite. Now, there are some requests and approaches that I find reasonable, but if someone nitpicks over a crumb or dust when it's really not that bad, or flips out if something is two centimeters off, I roll my eyes because there are more important things on my mind that I'm thinking about or trying to get done. Like when I'm anxious. How can I care about clutter when something else is really weighing on my mind? That's just how I approach it. I say all of this because he may have the same mentality.

So, that said, you may need to compromise and both of you may need to agree to a middle-level of neatness that keeps the house neat enough without making it like a prison. And he absolutely should compromise, too--it has to go both ways.

In relationships, compromise is important if you want to keep things going. Two people will never be exactly the same; even fairly similar people will disagree in some areas.

However, on the other hand, if he's making you miserable, and you're unable or unwilling to compromise (or if he is unable/unwilling to compromise), I think that it's at least worth considering if you should be together anymore, if it's not working. He has to be fair and willing to compromise on the neatness level. As for the sex level, some people just don't have as much drive as others, and that's just how they are. You can try to compromise and work out how much sex is fair and reasonable, but you can't change his level of sex drive. It is what it is. Whether or not you can live with it is something that only you can decide. No relationship is ever going to be perfect or live up to one's ideals (one big reason why I don't want one). There will be bumps in the road and imperfections. Whether certain imperfections are tolerable or not is something that only you can answer.

posted August 13, 2012 08:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

LOL! This sounds familiar. Occasionally he'll come home on a random Friday and do the dishes and tidy up a bit on a whim. I am supposed to just wait for the flash of inspiration to hit LOL.

The sex thing was definitely the dealbreaker but ever since I told him I intended to outsource it if he didn't start putting out, he has been a lot more receptive, even initiating sometimes lately (that was usually left to me).

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@Aquacheeka,

posted August 13, 2012 08:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Junethird:
@Aquacheeka,

Mmm... But it came down to you threatening to look for loving affections from outside your relationship... Thats not right. Forget the cleaning, but having to threaten him in order for him to have more sex or be more receptive is something you should re consider and think very hard... Its not right.

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posted August 13, 2012 08:42 PM            

Suggest you find someone who loves you and has a proper job that can pay all the bills. I don't have a whole lot of regard for men who can't stand on their own feet and yet be lazy a$$es or be critical SOBs. Broke a$$es should haul their butts to work and earn a proper living. And then wipe their own butts.

posted August 13, 2012 08:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
Yeah, I agree. I dunno, he just didn't take me seriously until I told him I had pretty much already crossed the line. It lit a proverbial fire under his ***, I guess you could say. We're both busy and we don't get to spend as much time together as we would like, but there were too many instances where we WERE together and it just wasn't being treated as a priority and getting rejected all the time really weighs on you after awhile. I often think that if he were to live a healthier lifestyle, he'd have a bigger drive. But the important thing is I guess that it's been a lot better in that way for the past month-and-a-half or so. Still not enough time for me to be convinced it's our new pattern, do you know what I mean?

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@Aquacheeka,

posted August 13, 2012 08:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
The way that I see it, you have two possibilities: compromise, or break up.

Are your demands for neatness actually reasonable? I ask because you mention being a neat freak and "OCD" about it, which makes it sound (to me) like maybe you go to extremes on this. Would you be willing to compromise with him and have things be neater than they are now, without having to look perfect 24/7, 100% of the time? I'll tell you right now, as someone who is a messy person: when people nag and nitpick about the smallest things, or when people are so extremist that they are over-the-top and beyond normal, I tend not to take them seriously. I've said before: extremes annoy me. The more extreme and unreasonable someone is with me, the more I will not do what they want, just out of spite. Now, there are some requests and approaches that I find reasonable, but if someone nitpicks over a crumb or dust when it's really not that bad, or flips out if something is two centimeters off, I roll my eyes because there are more important things on my mind that I'm thinking about or trying to get done. Like when I'm anxious. How can I care about clutter when something else is really weighing on my mind? That's just how I approach it. I say all of this because he may have the same mentality.

So, that said, you may need to compromise and both of you may need to agree to a middle-level of neatness that keeps the house neat enough without making it like a prison. And he absolutely should compromise, too--it has to go both ways.

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I think that's fair, you're right, I know I can be a bit extreme with it, which is why I mentioned being OCD. I'm the way YTA described his household, because that's how I was raised, whereas he is the polar opposite. So I mean, I guess what I would like is when he offers to do the dishes like he did this past weekend, that he actually does them later that day and not a week later. The main issue is one of procrastination. If I gave him infinite time (like a year to put away his laundry), eventually everything would get done. Which is why so often I just end up doing it myself. Waiting for him would take forever. I just get frustrated when like, okay to use the dishes this past weekend again as an example, he says he's going to wash them and then I come home to find he's been on the couch all evening and the dishes are still in the sink. I don't doubt there are a million-and-one things racing through that mind of his but... really???

posted August 13, 2012 08:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Junethird:
@Aquacheeka,

I understand. I hope it works out then this is a good place to come and vent

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posted August 13, 2012 08:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Never confuse economic necessity or convenience with love.

Suggest you find someone who loves you and has a proper job that can pay all the bills. I don't have a whole lot of regard for men who can't stand on their own feet and yet be lazy a$$es or be critical SOBs. Broke a$$es should haul their butts to work and earn a proper living. And then wipe their own butts.

I withhold the rest out of respect for you.

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Well in fairness to him, I am not looking for a man who can "pay all the bills," I am content to pay half, that is only fair imo. I don't think that I would be comfortable with a relationship that isn't egalitarian, and he also works very, very hard at his day job, so I don't think he deserves to be fully emasculated in that way, not everyone is high-income. For me personally, the things that I value are and have always been the intangibles: affection, feeling like my opinion matters, feeling like an equal, equal chores, respecting my freedom, you know, things like that. I actually would be desperately unhappy with a man who expected me to stay home and raise babies, even if he WAS rich. To each their own, I guess.

Astrology is right in the sense that we're all born with different priorities and temperaments.

posted August 13, 2012 08:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

Well, I've seen an improvement in the frequency of sex lately, since I told him that if he didn't show me affection (sexual and just plain cuddling/intimacy), I was going to get it elsewhere and in fact already HAD crossed the line. I was pretty darn frustrated at that point. I figured he would break up with me, but instead he actually tried to reignite the spark. So I'm thinking he must really love me too to forgive me and actually take some responsibility for his part.

Well in any case, the skill has never been the problem, only the frequency .

He's very funny. The other side of the coin, I guess. The sarcastic jokes when not aimed at you can actually be pretty hilarious. We share a pretty similar sense of humour. He still makes me laugh. Never underestimate the power of this. (sigh)

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LOL skill does matter more. Sounds like he does care but the lazy factor is the issue. The whole trolley of centaurs I know have the lazy issue, the can be the most passion people about their personal craft but when it comes to other things >__> its like pulling wisdom teeth. The only thing that has worked for me with getting Sags and their centuarian nature to compromise is by making things competitive or the iciest cold shoulder to the extent that you ex-communicate them from your world, they then come galloping back. Humor does score high on the maintaining a relationship chart though.