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Topic: BDSM
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Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 28, 2012 09:12 AM
quote: Originally posted by aquaguy91: interesting.all the others I have known with mars/pluto are very aware of and don't try to hide their freaky side.
I was ashamed of it. My father has always insinuated that I was a perverted little girl and assumed I will grow up a promiscuous freak. He probably did it to justify his sexual abuse. But it had a horrible effect on me. Enough to say that a year ago, when I started therapy, I couldn't even say the word "sex". It just would not come out of my mouth! It turned me into a frigid prude. I say maybe it's time to let the freak out for a breath of fresh air. IP: Logged |
Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 28, 2012 09:23 AM
quote: Originally posted by Padre35: After the begging..I had very little choice.Weird thing is, and you "know" my chart, it is just assumed that that is what I'm into! Fact of the matter is..well..perhaps later By [URL=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/padre35]padre35[/URLd] at 2012-08-19 It is SOOO difficult to explain this Hera, if one likes someone, and wants to see them in joy, if such things bring them joy it is VERY difficult to just be like "no" all the Scorpio stuff, coupled with triple fire signs, my goodness..and personally..I adore hippy chicks/or women who have fun, but take care of what is important to them!
OMG, that is really awful, Jan! I can relate because the sick Sag I dated wanted to force my hand into accepting something I didn't want to do, as well. Jerk gave me an ultimatum and stupid me, I loved him so much, I said maybe. Yes, I understand wanting to please your partner.. but really if you're uncomfortable then you're not pleasing yourself.. and then what's the point?? You said in your other thread that it was a one night stand.. So then I don't understand why you couldn't just say no. Have you taken into consideration that you might actually be on a more submissive side? You know I told you my reaction to you and your chart was similar to theirs. I don't know why I would get that vibe from you, as well..  IP: Logged |
ail221 Knowflake Posts: 2789 From: Mary Margaret Blanchard's home Registered: Feb 2012
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posted August 28, 2012 02:23 PM
quote: Originally posted by Hera: I think you're pretty spot on!! Salome on my Vertex; Lilith, Antiope, Messalina, Lameia in my 1st house (ANtiope on my Sun/Moon midpoint btw), Hippolyta widely sextile my unaspected Venus, Penthesile trine Sun, Jup and Uranus! I had this song on repeat in my car for a while now, I didn't stop to listen to the lyrics but lookie here lmao http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-5-4K9IeDo&feature=related
Trust me your not alone, it looks like all of the Lilith(s) took a gold stars and labeled my natal chart. Hippolya conjunct Sun, square Mars & Vertex, opposite NN, trine BML, sextile Eros& Psyche& ASC, Semi-sextile Venus Lameia trine Mercury, semi-sextile Neptune and Pluto Salome opposite Sun & Jupiter& Hippolyta, square Vertex, Sextile BMl& Lilith, trine Eros & psyche & ASC Antiope & Messalina in the First house, Penthesile & Lameia and Lilith(s) 7th house. I understand dominate feminine energy rules my personality and partnerships. I do like when men display typical feminine qualities yes but complete submission no. HMMMMM that song is rather catchy I think I'll play it again!!! I counter your song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cJfAVONsFc&feature=related IP: Logged |
Padre35 Knowflake Posts: 887 From: charlotte, NC, US Registered: Jul 2012
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posted August 28, 2012 02:46 PM
"OMG, that is really awful, Jan! I can relate because the sick Sag I dated wanted to force my hand into accepting something I didn't want to do, as well. Jerk gave me an ultimatum and stupid me, I loved him so much, I said maybe. Yes, I understand wanting to please your partner.. but really if you're uncomfortable then you're not pleasing yourself.. and then what's the point?? You said in your other thread that it was a one night stand.. So then I don't understand why you couldn't just say no. Have you taken into consideration that you might actually be on a more submissive side? You know I told you my reaction to you and your chart was similar to theirs. I don't know why I would get that vibe from you, as well"IIRC, you reaction was my chart "creeped you out" and one thought I had a lot of misogyny in there..  I did say no, usually do and I tend to have to like/respect the other person first and if that is reciprocated then we can do things, if not, nothing is happening and that is fine with me as well. Suspect the dirty little secret is the less needy one is, the more opportunites that come along..sort of a conundrum for some but I understand it. In that sense, I do have empathy for genuinely nice guys who do not understand how that works. No submissive side to me, like the conflict to much to just give in. BUT this is not about me, it is about you Hera. Just offering up my .02 IP: Logged |
geea Knowflake Posts: 316 From: the green glass Registered: Jun 2011
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posted August 28, 2012 04:24 PM
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Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 28, 2012 06:37 PM
Hello all... I had therapy today. I told my therapist about all this, about thinking I am sadist and fantasizing about beating a man. Once again, she proved to be very good at what she does.
I concluded after the session that I am, most likely.. not sadistic. I just have a lot of pain, anger and a need for justice and they are starting to boil up inside me and force themselves to the surface. Which essentially is good. My therapist asked me if I want to beat a specific person or just people in general. I said of course a specific person, isn't it obvious?? It's my father. So I want to beat my father. Not an innocent soul who has nothing to do with my mess. But well.. this thought is very depressing. I cannot go beat my father *for real* for what he has done to me. My therapist suggested making up a scenario in which I beat my father. But honestly I don't feel like it, maybe because I know it's fake, also because at some level, for some reason, I don't want to beat him.. It is all very confusing. Since this was illuminated to me, I begun to see that clearly bdsm is not the answer. I thought it would be a good release for my aggression but turns out it's misdirected anger after all. I know I should fire at the cause and not a replacement. But damn it's hard. When I started to consider bdsm, I was actually excited. I could feel my anger in my throat, choking me and wanted so badly to let it out, at last!! I also think I need a pretty violent release, to match my violent past. It seemed perfect and the anticipation of releasing myself from anger made me feel so friggin good. But I think Jan might be right.. it would also make me feel empty. Possibly very guilty. Do I really need more guilt to carry around with me? I still think I am a dominant personality type, but I am also very empathetic and caring.. I don't think I could stand myself knowing I caused suffering, even though it is consensual, even though it is welcomed, even though it is pretend. I would still have to live with it afterwards.. And well I don't think I have the stomach for it. Of course I could detach, like I do at work. After all, it's not too much of a difference. There is also the matter of proving my father right. Not just for the perversion thing, but also because I would stoop to his level. I would get to feel what he felt. I would become him. And I despise him, with all my being, all of him. Why would I want to become him?? To forgive him? To avoid confrontation?? No. I do not want this to go on. As hard as it is for me to fight it, it ends with me. The pain, hate and violence need not pass on further onto someone else. I will continue to carry them until I find a suitable release, one that does not involve hurting another being.
Geea, 
I understand the logic and reason behind the lifestyle. I could fit in, if I didn't think that for my specific problem, it would only be another means of escapism. I actually have joined the local forum and started reading about the lifestyle and chatting with a few of the members. I must say, some of them are educated, funny, articulate, witty individuals. I can understand their appeal. As I said, I understand the psychology behind the lifestyle, it is what drew me to it. I need to find a release for my blind fury. But this.. as exciting and thrilling as it is, also safe, consensual and sane.. feels wrong to me, on some level. Not because I am judgmental (I actually empathize a lot) but because it doesn't match my core principles. I guess, even though at the moment I am under the overwhelming influence of my extreme anger, I still believe violence breeds more violence if one chooses to feed it. And I don't want the violence to perpetuate further. There is enough real violence in the world for that. I understand it need not be violent.. but I would need something violent and extreme because what I feel inside is violent and extreme.. because what happened to me, what was done to me, felt violent and extreme. IP: Logged |
Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 28, 2012 07:06 PM
quote: Originally posted by Padre35:
IIRC, you reaction was my chart "creeped you out" and one thought I had a lot of misogyny in there..  I did say no, usually do and I tend to have to like/respect the other person first and if that is reciprocated then we can do things, if not, nothing is happening and that is fine with me as well. Suspect the dirty little secret is the less needy one is, the more opportunites that come along..sort of a conundrum for some but I understand it. In that sense, I do have empathy for genuinely nice guys who do not understand how that works. No submissive side to me, like the conflict to much to just give in. BUT this is not about me, it is about you Hera. Just offering up my .02
The energy is present in the natal chart, but you cannot tell if you express it or it is expressed upon you. I only picked up the energy, indeed I did assume it might come from you. Though seriously beating women even for pretend, still shows up somewhere in there. Not saying that you did, coz actually I have no idea what you did coz you're not sharing! lol You're right about the neediness thing. I've seen it working too. IP: Logged |
Padre35 Knowflake Posts: 887 From: charlotte, NC, US Registered: Jul 2012
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posted August 29, 2012 12:14 AM
quote: Originally posted by Hera: The energy is present in the natal chart, but you cannot tell if you express it or it is expressed upon you. I only picked up the energy, indeed I did assume it might come from you. Though seriously beating women even for pretend, still shows up somewhere in there. Not saying that you did, coz actually I have no idea what you did coz you're not sharing! lol You're right about the neediness thing. I've seen it working too.
nah, no chance of that happening Hera, the way "I" work is if it is not my idea..I don't like it when it comes to that stuff. What does weird me out, but I've come to accept, is that is just a part of me, people will think this of me no matter what I do. I'm to be viewed as the villian/anti hero, this is just how it is. Suppose someone has to wear the black hat..and that's me. As for how that turned out, politely excused myself and got out of there. BUT that sort of approach is not unusual, all of that Scorpionic stuff in my chart just tends to lead women (and some men) to just assume that I'm into things that I have little interest in.. Welcome to my world so to speak. An example: A good friend of mine is/was wild about a coworker, he had liked her for literal yrs, however she is in shock over her ex cheating on her and "not ready" for a relationship. IE, my friend washed his hands (sort of) of her. Happened to be hanging out and she showed up to hang out, have a beer, and chill, she started, well, for lack of a better term, alluding to my physical features and tried to strike up a conversation. Was having none of it, she got the hint and left. If I were what my chart suggests, I'd have pushed in and seen what happens, this is my friend though and I'd think it a scumball move to make. A sort of "heh, you did not, but I did" sort of teenager BS move. I'm not about that..at all. IP: Logged |
Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 29, 2012 06:14 AM
I know you're not like that, Jan.. I mean, I know now. Sometimes first impressions/hunches can be wrong. Making a move on your friend would've made you a douche, but it's not what bdsm is about. I am curious though.. what did you do to that woman who asked you about your belt.. and how did you feel afterwards.. could you go through with it? IP: Logged |
Padre35 Knowflake Posts: 887 From: charlotte, NC, US Registered: Jul 2012
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posted August 29, 2012 07:50 AM
quote: Originally posted by Hera: I know you're not like that, Jan.. I mean, I know now. Sometimes first impressions/hunches can be wrong.
True, then again I'm a believer in trusting hunches/intuition, something of a conundrum to be sure. quote: Making a move on your friend would've made you a douche, but it's not what bdsm is about. I am curious though.. what did you do to that woman who asked you about your belt.. and how did you feel afterwards.. could you go through with it?[/B]
-He said he was no longer interested in her, but I got the feeling that he still was he just did not like were she was at with her cheating ex. -Did nothing at all, I chatted with a women who had been working at a volunteer both and walked over to me and said "I noticed you yesterday". She was on the verge of doing some really positive things in her life so I was vibing off of her good vibe. She left, and the women who wanted the belt stepped up and said she did not want small talk and you know the rest. As for how I felt, tbh Hera, stuff like that is not unusual to happen to me but rarely are they so upfront about it. So not quite shocked more like "well she is not wasting any time". Could I go through with it? Already had a couple of GF's who really liked that sort of thing so it was something of old hat, probably would not have went through with it BTDT. The end of that path is mind numbing depravity in my view, gag balls and riding crops etc, not interested IP: Logged |
Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 29, 2012 08:22 AM
So you didn't do it after all? I found this.. How true.. 
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Padre35 Knowflake Posts: 887 From: charlotte, NC, US Registered: Jul 2012
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posted August 29, 2012 08:27 AM
Of course not Hera, for a host of reasons.Do think it is funny that it is just assumed that I would have..  At my core, I'm a positive, optimistic person, the dark side holds no mysteries for me so it is not at all seductive..but can see where some would find it very seductive. IP: Logged |
Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 29, 2012 08:50 AM
Hmm.. for me the appeal is that it would match the intensity of some very urgent emotions I have inside. That is all. But the journey of descending holds a lot of dangers for one's soul, methinks. Just as well as it might liberate one, idk. IP: Logged |
Padre35 Knowflake Posts: 887 From: charlotte, NC, US Registered: Jul 2012
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posted August 29, 2012 09:33 AM
quote: Originally posted by Hera: Hmm.. for me the appeal is that it would match the intensity of some very urgent emotions I have inside. That is all. But the journey of descending holds a lot of dangers for one's soul, methinks. Just as well as it might liberate one, idk.
Thing is Hera, all one is doing is projecting those emotions on someone else, not dealing with them. As a happy type of person, there is no need to do that to gain some relief from them, but for others I can see why that would be seductive. A little vignette: Guy I semi know was hanging out with his good girl GF, she is very responsible and a nurse etc, this guy had a bad day personally and was playing the role of the obnoxious drunk. So much so his GF walked away to make a phone call (GF 911 call) so this guy looks around, sees it is just he and I, and says "she's a great girl, but I like doing freaky things and she is not into that and I'm not happy with it". This is not an unusual conversation for me to have, but what struck me is for him, once he went to the BDSM stuff, it sort of stained his mind when it comes to sex. He was willing to toss her aside b/c of it, this is the sort of seductive power of BDSM, for some anything but that is boring. IP: Logged |
Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 29, 2012 01:55 PM
Well of course it is projecting! I wonder though how many are aware of it. I know a few that rebel at the idea that they're pigeonholed into all that "psychological cr@p" of childhood trauma. But I personally have no other way of explaining this type of lifestyle to my poor innocent vanilla brain. That is precisely why I considered it, no other reason. I seek resolution for what has happened to me in my real life, which if one draws the line, is a lot with the scenarios in a bdsm relationships. Minus the whole worshiping, trust thing. I think my need is one for justice, but since life has not given me justice, now I want revenge. Up until now, I was able to sweep all this under my subconscious carpet.. but it wants to come out and denial is no longer an option, as it was last year. When I think back at my experiences in the last few years, they all gradually brought me here, to face my own darkness. I may refuse yet to plunge into it, but it's still there. I do not have the quality of being a happy person like you Jan. I am a gloomy kind of person, always have been. And I don't even have that much Scorpio in me. I think the appeal of bdsm is making you confront those issues, even though they are projected. It would be very clear to me why and who I would be really mistreating, no doubts about that. But now I am wondering if projection is really all that good.. isn't it what I've always done?? Yes, it brought me here. Projection definitely helped. I wouldn't have been able to reach this awareness without it, since I always wanted to avoid confrontation with the real past trauma. But do I still need it?? Why am I unable to beat my father but am so tempted of beating someone else, pretending he is my father? This, I feel, is the answer to my predicament. IP: Logged |
PixieJane Knowflake Posts: 1522 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted August 29, 2012 05:26 PM
Maybe you should try building a poppet of your dad, projecting all your anger onto it, and burning it, and the anger along with it. My very first experience with witchcraft was doing this, and it was suggested because of an extremely traumatic episode and a person who terrified me. I made a poppet of the person, and since I had nothing of the person I instead drew pictures with the name while imagining the essence of that person put into me flowing through into the drawing that I sewed into the poppet, as well as items related to the parts of me traumatized. Two experienced occultists (one the Dianic who got me off the streets) took me to a lonely beach where we chanted and they had me burn it (and seeing my pain and damage and any power held over me which by then was strictly in my own mind flowing away with the smoke) and it turned flashy: the doll burned as if it had been doused in something (and I was the one to put it down so I know it wasn't) and a bird landed nearby as it started, stared until it was done, and then flew away immediately after it was done. And it helped. I felt cleaner immediately and the horrid nightmares mostly stopped and I quickly began regaining my self-confidence and ability to live in the world without crippling fear. IP: Logged |
Padre35 Knowflake Posts: 887 From: charlotte, NC, US Registered: Jul 2012
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posted August 29, 2012 09:56 PM
" But now I am wondering if projection is really all that good.. isn't it what I've always done?? Yes, it brought me here. Projection definitely helped. I wouldn't have been able to reach this awareness without it, since I always wanted to avoid confrontation with the real past trauma. But do I still need it?? Why am I unable to beat my father but am so tempted of beating someone else, pretending he is my father? This, I feel, is the answer to my predicament."Disagree Hera, projection is not what has lead you here, self awareness did imo. The next step is to decide what to do with it. Sorry, there are no instructions included when you take the "Red" pill. IP: Logged |
Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 29, 2012 11:43 PM
quote: Originally posted by PixieJane: Maybe you should try building a poppet of your dad, projecting all your anger onto it, and burning it, and the anger along with it. My very first experience with witchcraft was doing this, and it was suggested because of an extremely traumatic episode and a person who terrified me. I made a poppet of the person, and since I had nothing of the person I instead drew pictures with the name while imagining the essence of that person put into me flowing through into the drawing that I sewed into the poppet, as well as items related to the parts of me traumatized. Two experienced occultists (one the Dianic who got me off the streets) took me to a lonely beach where we chanted and they had me burn it (and seeing my pain and damage and any power held over me which by then was strictly in my own mind flowing away with the smoke) and it turned flashy: the doll burned as if it had been doused in something (and I was the one to put it down so I know it wasn't) and a bird landed nearby as it started, stared until it was done, and then flew away immediately after it was done. And it helped. I felt cleaner immediately and the horrid nightmares mostly stopped and I quickly began regaining my self-confidence and ability to live in the world without crippling fear.
Pixie, Thank you for the suggestion, I will consider it. Maybe I even will do it. I would probably try anything. Problem is that I don't know if I will be able to channel my anger into this, as it's nothing like my trauma. I have the same doubts about self-defense, though I do look forward to hitting things, I really need that. Unfortunately, the thing that resembles what I need is bdsm, because I have lived live what they do for pretend. Except not consensually, safe or sane.  IP: Logged |
Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 29, 2012 11:54 PM
quote: Originally posted by Padre35:
Disagree Hera, projection is not what has lead you here, self awareness did imo. The next step is to decide what to do with it. Sorry, there are no instructions included when you take the "Red" pill.
Yes. Self-awareness through projection. That is how I always learned. I have a see-saw type of chart, I always more or less project and understand the other person, matter, subject etc, through my projection into it/him/her. Comparison also helped, but it was more a mirroring effect, seeing myself in other people. I always know that when someone bothers me, it triggers something. I used to run away from confrontations, now I don't because through confrontations I am really confronting two different sides of myself. It was hard in the beginning to comprehend my dark side and the less pleasant aspects of myself, I denied them vehemently. Now, yes, I can say that I am in a place of almost complete self-awareness. It wasn't easy getting here, but the Universe always sent the right people my way, and yeah, I learned through mirroring and projection. The Sag, believe it or not, is my biggest teacher. He took things to a more advanced and deeper level. It was very uncomfortable for me, it opened up my Pandora's box but it also liberated me. Self awareness, in my opinion, makes a person very, very strong. It takes balls to look yourself in the naked eye, strip of all excuses and pretenses, and love yourself as you are (not tolerate, *love*). I am not there yet, but arriving soon, hopefully. Red pill? lol IP: Logged |
Padre35 Knowflake Posts: 887 From: charlotte, NC, US Registered: Jul 2012
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posted August 30, 2012 12:02 AM
The Sag also had a motive.then again, I also have a motive, albeit, not a physical one. Namely, what about my Pluto placement (or chart), specifically, that gave you that vibe? I ask this b/c: -Sincerity..seriously it sounds like I've been born to lose -What could I do to change it? Mirroring imo, is always a weak approach, made from weakness, makes sense. Then again, hide a sword with a smile. IP: Logged |
Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 30, 2012 09:59 AM
Mirroring is not weak, I have to disagree on that one. No kind of self-awareness is weak. Period. In your chart: -Saturn in 1st opp Venus in 7th, in Scorpio - might indicate excessive criticism to/from women, possible cruelty -Sun Square Pluto - can indicate a person who would disregard another person's interests or even well-being for their own interest/pleasure/whatnot. -Moon square Mars, in Scorpio - can indicate a bad temper, anger, violence towards/from women -Moon sq Venus - can be a player aspect -Venus conj Mars in Scorpio - can be an indicator for a more compulsive sex-drive, with possible extreme nuances -Uranus square Mercury and especially MC/IC axis - Mercury/Uranus can indicate insanity, unusual thinking, a mental freak, Uranus/Mc-Ic a disregard of society's rules, an outcast, a rebel, a freak -add to that Jup in Scorpio Had there been 1 or 2 indicators, hmm.. okay, no problem. But I saw a theme there, thought it was unlikely for someone with so many indicators to be a regular nice guy. But I am glad you proved me wrong, I am not that small to admit it upfront. I think maybe your Neptune in the 8th makes you want to cross boundaries to please a partner. IP: Logged |
geea Knowflake Posts: 316 From: the green glass Registered: Jun 2011
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posted August 30, 2012 01:07 PM
Hi Hera, I've had some time to read the entire topic. I understand now where your anger comes from. I'll write further in our language because it's very personal and I hope the others will understand. I also intend to delete everything after you've read it so no quoting. Edited.  IP: Logged |
Hera Moderator Posts: 5094 From: the OR Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 30, 2012 01:36 PM
Geea,  IP: Logged |
Saraintheski Knowflake Posts: 671 From: Registered: May 2011
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posted August 30, 2012 02:14 PM
I like strong dominating men who would love to just destroy me in bed because i'm "perfect for him " Not sure if that's bdsm lol I really like spanking and hair pulling . I had someone in my life who used my sexual curiousity against me at the same time liberating me also . In arguments they would call me an "ADDICT" I AM FAR FROM " WHO*E" "pervert" all because I simply told him everything I have ever done because with him I felt like I was redeeming myself like I found someone I could talk all of my experiences through with . I realized this was just a form of manipulation he had to dehumanize me somehow later on my whole need for a dominant but loving man is what got me in that situation. If I am in an excited mood roughness,worshiping,slight bondage makes my knees weak . :| lol tmi? Scorpio sun , merc ,pluto and mars venus and jupiter in libra all in the 8th house?IP: Logged |
geea Knowflake Posts: 316 From: the green glass Registered: Jun 2011
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posted August 30, 2012 04:27 PM
Done  Thanks. I can tell you're a strong woman, so you deserve nothing but the best after all you've been through.  IP: Logged | |