posted August 11, 2014 11:41 PM            

They just have better manners.

posted August 11, 2014 11:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I don't know what it is, but in my area, if you hold the door open for a white person, they may nod and grin. Hold the door open for a black person and they say a clear, "Thank you" every single time.

They just have better manners.

I'm white, and my people are letting me down.

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posted August 12, 2014 12:04 AM            

I can't see how race would play into it.
People are people. Race has nothing to do with anything.

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posted August 12, 2014 12:12 AM            

Sorry, it was just something I've noticed and wanted to give credit, actually, where it's due.

posted August 12, 2014 12:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:

I can't see how race would play into it.
People are people. Race has nothing to do with anything.

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posted August 12, 2014 12:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Did my comment offend anyone?

Sorry, it was just something I've noticed and wanted to give credit, actually, where it's due.

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posted August 12, 2014 12:27 AM            

I asked how that was and she said that every time someone black does something bad the nation goes on about how it's no surprise a black man did it. When she was growing up and some terrible deed was reported on she heard "please don't let the guy who did that be black" because the entire black community would unjustly share in the infamy. And that may be why the black man looked horrified by what Kanye had done.

I started paying closer attention and found she was right. It was bad enough that when one mass shooter turned out to be black some comments to the article reporting on it were saying how it wasn't surprising a black guy would do that despite that most mass shooters in the US are white.

And it's possible that something of that is playing out in your area, being more concerned with how they're viewed because they know they've got to work twice as hard as someone white to be considered almost as good and decent while any boorish behavior counts much stronger against them (and everyone they know) much more than it would a white person. When a white person does it it's about the individual, but when a black person does it then it's about the entire community. It's not fair, but those are the cards some people are dealt. And given that you see a difference that is repeated over and over then that strongly suggests that there's still a lot of (unofficial) segregation in your area and they probably have to be more polite to get ahead (or even just to not get arrested).

posted August 12, 2014 12:33 AM            

Well the thing is it happens so regularly and predictably, it's made this big impression that I can't ignore. I actually thought of starting a whole topic on it, weeks ago, because it fascinates me. Then I figured it would be taken the wrong way...I was right, I guess....

But if you only knew. This area is so cold, detached, status-conscious...I really appreciate every extra bit of kindness. Like, I have almost been in tears at the gallantry of some of these people, who all happen to be black. It's just beautiful and out of place here.

My point is, as others have pointed out, and I'm just continuing on that tangent...holding a door open can be a meaningful exchange between any two strangers. I find myself appreciative of the people who take advantage of that opportunity to show some heart, some "namaste" if you will. So, I just told the truth about where I find that most often.

posted August 12, 2014 12:39 AM            

I know racism is still taking a huge toll, and that's probably part of it, which is pathetic...but all I see in this is grandeur and dignity. I wish everyone was here and knew exactly what I meant.

posted August 12, 2014 12:48 AM            

I think Lonake covered everything...

posted August 12, 2014 04:02 AM            

That reminds me of using the word "ma'am" in California. In the South it's polite, but apparently in California it's calling someone old and thus disrespectful. I wasn't exactly offended by their hostility to me, more confused and exasperated. After I saw it was common I don't use it save with the elderly (unless she's trying to look like she's a lot younger).

Oh, and someone with a strong Southern accent. It's interesting, when I go back to Texas I start using "ma'am" again automatically.

posted August 12, 2014 08:26 AM            

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posted August 12, 2014 10:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I used to hold doors open for women all the time but after I had a few bad experiences with it I pretty much stopped doing it. Just to name a few... Once I opened the door for a group of girls who were about my age and they said "uh, we can open the door ourselves!" In a very b*tchy tone. No thank you or anything... And then I was at work one night and held the door open for a girl and she shot me a dirty look and walked way out of the way to go to another door just to spite me. Needless to say I was extremely offended both times and Both experiences left a bitter taste in my mouth towards chivalry. Now I don't open doors for anybody unless they are elderly and/or have their hands full.

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Don't let it bring you down, Aquaguy.

Your Heart is good, that's what matters.

It's difficult to please others all the time.

You have to do what's right to you, in the end.

There are those who appreciate these things.

posted August 12, 2014 12:37 PM            

Pixie pretty much touched on the reason behind my reaction to your post. You seem to be coming from a good place though, I just think that our perspectives are different on how we see things.

To me, when someone says they find non-stereotypical/good behavior from someone black surprising or fascinating it just shows how sadly, many people still (whether unconsciously or consciously) expect us to act, look, and or behave a certain way rather than just seeing our behavior on an individual basis. It shouldn't be a "surprise" when you find someone who happens to be black doesn't like hip-hop, loves Indian food, doesn't have kids, etc. but yet no one blinks an eye if someone black talks loud, wears their pants low, knows how to twerk or what have you because it's expected. To you, it may seem like a compliment and it may be coming from a nice place but it basically just reaffirms how at least initially, many people just expect for us to be a certain way otherwise non-stereotypical/good behaviors wouldn't be surprising. See where I'm coming from?

posted August 12, 2014 01:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chiemi:
To me, when someone says they find non-stereotypical/good behavior from someone black surprising or fascinating

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That wasn't what I meant, though. The consistency of the phenomenon showed me a cultural difference that I had not been aware of. It's not like I had negative expectations and was surprised when they were changed. I had no expectations and was surprised when a pattern came into focus.

I have Sag Venus-Neptune trine 9H Aries Jupiter...maybe that helps explain where I'm coming from. I spend a lot of time thinking about other cultures, watching travel videos, dabbling in anthropological journals. I LOVE talking to foreigners, have traveled abroad, and lived with people from several different countries. I still go to Indian restaurants because I love their manners, which are also unique. I just want to meet everyone and see what makes them "them." If their heritage and race are part of that, wonderful. If not, wonderful, too. It doesn't really matter.

But honestly I think there is a black subculture in my area that has preserved an old-fashioned kind of dignity and grace under pressure that other communities don't have. And I love that. It's a qualitative difference.

Such a shame that I can't acknowledge it and pay homage to it without it falling into some gray zone of bad etiquette. Part of it's my fault but...everything is still so tense.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chiemi:
it just shows how sadly, many people still (whether unconsciously or consciously) expect us to act, look, and or behave a certain way rather than just seeing our behavior on an individual basis.

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That is sad...

But as for me, I expect good now because that's all I'm finding...but then, I do expect good with most people. This is just a difference that strikes a chord with me.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chiemi:
It shouldn't be a "surprise" when you find someone who happens to be black doesn't like hip-hop, loves Indian food, doesn't have kids, etc.

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Oh wow...you really don't understand where I am coming from. I don't make those assumptions. I don't even watch TV or pay attention to the news, so it's not like I have images like that drilled into my head. I'm not like your average American. I don't have a political party or religion or real community even... I'm just like a floating observer.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chiemi:
To you, it may seem like a compliment and it may be coming from a nice place but it basically just reaffirms how at least initially, many people just expect for us to be a certain way otherwise non-stereotypical/good behaviors wouldn't be surprising. See where I'm coming from?

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I see where you are coming from but...that's not where I was coming from. It wasn't, "I expected ghetto and got politeness." I expected nothing and got a view of a kind of graciousness that is rare in these parts...maybe it's the humiliations that Pixie talked about that can challenge a spirit to rise up about all this cr*p and be something more?

As I said above, maybe it's "grace under pressure" which is a special kind of grace. But I don't know.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chiemi:
Again, there's no hard feelings and I see that you are coming from a sound place with your post. Just different perspectives on how we see things .

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Thanks for being understanding, very sorry if I was insensitive and explained it all badly.

posted August 12, 2014 01:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Actually, Faith, I see a PERSON not an earth skin.

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You see an opportunity to turn this into an argument with me. That's all.