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Author
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Topic: Debunking 6 myths about aspergers (article)
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aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 8472
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 02:47 AM
  
I found this article on the net and thought it was really interesting. I especially liked that they added the myth about not being capable of empathy in there. As a person with aspergers that is the myth that upsets me the most . We are just as empathetic and feel as deeply for others as the average person, it's just that we have a different way of expressing it. http://psychcentral.com/lib/debunking-6-myths-about-asperger-syndrome/0008957 IP: Logged |
Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 3174
From: Asheville, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 03:43 AM
Only going to say this once.You lack empathy
Adult Aspies is, from my pov, a product of poor nutrition, poor thinking and poor EG and a DSMV that it is so non objective that it is not worth it.
Assume all of the above is true for the sake of argument Now what? IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 8472
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 04:02 AM
^ and how would you know that? My purpose in posting this was to educate people because there are a lot of misconceptions about aspergers and there a lot of people who don't know anything about it. IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 3755
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted December 21, 2013 05:40 AM
I don't know what to think of Apsergers...and neither do plenty of psychiatrists as you can take a kid to 3 doctors and get a different diagnosis from each one and some doctors refuse the diagnosis outright (I thought the diagnosis had even been removed as a possibility but maybe that was in Europe). From what I understand of it even someone who just plays too many video games (so that they don't have much of a life beyond it) could demonstrate the mental and physical symptoms. Granted, I could also see why someone with Aspergers would play too many video games...It doesn't help when I hear mothers say they know their kid had something wrong with them and then describing perfectly normal behavior (as in I'd be worried if the little children DIDN'T cry and act out like that). And I read the article but was left wondering HOW the conclusions were drawn in the article debunking the myths. For example: quote:
The person with Asperger’s isn’t able to intellectually infer that the co-worker who lost their cat might be sad, especially in the moment. They might realize this hours later at home. “But when they do know the person is sad, they are able to feel that sadness without any difficulty, perhaps even more intensely than typical people,” she said. In other words, “they have difficult expressing empathy in a conventional way.” It’s a problem of communication, not empathy, she said.
This begs the question of how this is known. The only way it could be is if brain scans were done on a large number of Aspies (with many "normal" brain scans to compare & contrast to) which I presume can show things like empathy. Maybe those brain scans were done, and if so I'd be willing to accept this assertion. But if they weren't (and I don't think psychologists such as this would-be debunker involve themselves much with neurology) then this is simply an assumption asserted as fact rather than genuine myth-busting. Too bad the writer simply assumed we should take someone's word for it just because they have a PhD (and this is despite that they say themselves that other experts believe at least some of the "myths") rather than say how they know. Just to be clear I'm not dismissing it, I'm saying I wish they'd been more clear on HOW they know this. I'm willing to accept the claims but I want to know how those claims are justified. IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 3755
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted December 21, 2013 06:02 AM
I just looked up some brain scans of Aspergers. For anyone interested, there's this:
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20101206/mri-scans-may-help-evalua te-aspergers-syndrome?page=2 I also found this on empathy (but it doesn't actually answer the question to my satisfaction but it does add to my reservations about the would-be myth-buster):
http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/in-brief/2012/cognition-and-behav ior-asperger-brains-similar-across-sexes IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 8472
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 06:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
I don't know what to think of Apsergers...and neither do plenty of psychiatrists as you can take a kid to 3 doctors and get a different diagnosis from each one and some doctors refuse the diagnosis outright (I thought the diagnosis had even been removed as a possibility but maybe that was in Europe). From what I understand of it even someone who just plays too many video games (so that they don't have much of a life beyond it) could demonstrate the mental and physical symptoms. Granted, I could also see why someone with Aspergers would play too many video games...It doesn't help when I hear mothers say they know their kid had something wrong with them and then describing perfectly normal behavior (as in I'd be worried if the little children DIDN'T cry and act out like that). And I read the article but was left wondering HOW the conclusions were drawn in the article debunking the myths. For example: This begs the question of how this is known. The only way it could be is if brain scans were done on a large number of Aspies (with many "normal" brain scans to compare & contrast to) which I presume can show things like empathy. Maybe those brain scans were done, and if so I'd be willing to accept this assertion. But if they weren't (and I don't think psychologists such as this would-be debunker involve themselves much with neurology) then this is simply an assumption asserted as fact rather than genuine myth-busting. Too bad the writer simply assumed we should take someone's word for it just because they have a PhD (and this is despite that they say themselves that other experts believe at least some of the "myths") rather than say how they know. Just to be clear I'm not dismissing it, I'm saying I wish they'd been more clear on HOW they know this. I'm willing to accept the claims but I want to know how those claims are justified.
They didn't do away with the diagnosis, they just reclassified it. Instead of being aspergers it will be lumped in with regular autism, albeit a milder form. Of course aspergers has always been associated with autism somewhat but it kind of stood on its own at the same. I don't know, it's all really complicated to me. You mentioned Europe , aspergers is recognized as a diagnosis in most of Europe. The only exception to that is France as far as I know. Children with aspergers are actually being abused and mistreated in France. A documentary was made on this , it's called "Shameful".IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 8472
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 06:42 AM
A lot of people consider aspergers a phony diagnosis. Some have even gone so far to say that aspergers is just an excuse to be a prick. Of course such people are ignorant and have no idea what they are talking about. There are also a lot of people who believe aspergers symptoms are a result of social maladaption or having no life outside of playing video games as you put it. I could see how that could be the case in some situations but aspergers is a legitimate diagnosis. In my case, there were signs that something was different about me when I was a baby. My mom reported that I was an extremely quiet baby and rarely cried but I always appeared nervous. She also said that I would not respond to people when they would make faces at me to make me laugh , she said I just looked confused. Of course she just chalked all of this up to me being a quiet /shy baby. Mom and dad didn't really suspect there was something different about me till I started walking and talking. They were perplexed by my behavior and didn't know what to make of it until my dad happened upon an article about aspergers by chance. He was at work and read an article about aspergers and came home and showed it to my mom and said "this is our son". Mom took me to a psychiatrist who agreed that I did have aspergers. I was supposed to go to a specialist to get a diagnosis but my extended family objected and said. " he ain't crazy,why does he need to go to a crazy doctor?" This made me feel really self concious so I refused to go back to the Dr and mom finally relented and we left the whole issue alone and pretended it never happened. I went through years of my life denying that I was different and struggled as a result. I squeaked by until I entered the adult world and started having all kinds of issues, particularly the workplace. I started researching aspergers again and everything I read mirrored who I was and the issues I dealt with. I was seeing a life coach last year who also thought I had aspergers and she recommended that I seek a diagnosis . I agreed and she set me up with a specialist in town and after running a few tests and talking to me and my mother he agreed that I have aspergers and officially diagnosed me this past July.IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 6708
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted December 21, 2013 10:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:
Only going to say this once.You lack empathy
Adult Aspies is, from my pov, a product of poor nutrition, poor thinking and poor EG and a DSMV that it is so non objective that it is not worth it.
Assume all of the above is true for the sake of argument Now what?
HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SAY SOMETHING SO OFFENSIVE??
Poor nutrition and poor thinking is what I have? I'm a poor example to mankind?!? And that goes for my wife, my two sons, my brother, my father and my brother in law? Do you have any idea how much that hurts?? What else do you have to say about Aspergers???!! The level of ignorance is astounding!!! Too many video games .., my father lived in an era without Atari. He went to Oxford. Got a PhD. Then went to Cambridge. Got a Post-Doc. Was Presidential Scholar in his country. Became Chairman and CEO of a multinational conglomerate. My cousin was in the Olympics 100 meters freestyle Final.. In the top Eight. Was a military aviator.. Just in case you say Aspergers men are wimps. . My son is going to Harvard. He's a candidate for US Presidential Scholar. Video games. Lack of intelligence. Indeed. And I'm still better than most of you at Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto!!! IP: Logged |
Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 3174
From: Asheville, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 11:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
^ and how would you know that? My purpose in posting this was to educate people because there are a lot of misconceptions about aspergers and there a lot of people who don't know anything about it.
There is a reason why Aspergers has been folded into the Autism tent, if one wants to know why perhaps look into "definition of autism changed". Put it this way, even Asperger's itself is not exactly a scientific finding, psychology has become a field filled with quacks. IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 6708
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted December 21, 2013 11:21 AM
Quack science? Do you think the departments of cognitive neurology at Harvard and child psychiatry at Yale would put out personalized official certifications for my son if it weren't a genuine medical field?IP: Logged |
Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 3174
From: Asheville, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 11:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SAY SOMETHING SO OFFENSIVE??Poor nutrition and poor thinking is what I have? I'm a poor example to mankind?!? And that goes for my wife, my two sons, my brother, my father and my brother in law? Do you have any idea how much that hurts?? What else do you have to say about Aspergers???!! The level of ignorance is astounding!!! Too many video games .., my father lived in an era without Atari. He went to Oxford. Got a PhD. Then went to Cambridge. Got a Post-Doc. Was Presidential Scholar in his country. Became Chairman and CEO of a multinational conglomerate. My cousin was in the Olympics 100 meters freestyle Final.. In the top Eight. Was a military aviator.. Just in case you say Aspergers men are wimps. . My son is going to Harvard. He's a candidate for US Presidential Scholar. Video games. Lack of intelligence. Indeed. And I'm still better than most of you at Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto!!!
So tell me YTA, when did you ever concern oneself with offending anyone when speaking what you believe to be true? "If" aspergers is such a crippling condition, then do tell, a PhD requires a board review of a thesis which is a published work, how did they pull it off. I've studied the DSM, know the process for adding a "condition" to it, and concluded it is utter garbage for the most part, especially how things are classified or removed or created. Have you? IP: Logged |
Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 3174
From: Asheville, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 11:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Quack science? Do you think the departments of cognitive neurology at Harvard and child psychiatry at Yale would put out personalized official certifications for my son if it weren't a genuine medical field?
No, child psychology is a far more scientific process of discovery of mental states then adult psychology b/c the personality has not grown and manifested itself quite yet. However, the entire field of psychology, and psychiatry has become riddled with quackery, more or less shills for legalized psychotropoic drug dispensation and the pharma industry. When substances such as prozac or ambien have to have 30 second long warnings about side effects, one should have the self introspection to realize...they are quacks. IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 6708
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted December 21, 2013 01:01 PM
You've studied nothing and have no qualifications whatsoever. At least have a graduate degree in psychology like Ami before you attempt to represent medical science. Nor do you have any medical residency to speak off. Neither have you studied any empirical evidence from a statistically significant subset to three standard deviations. Ultimately, you are providing an opinion, which is just fine, but have zero basis whatsoever. Aspergers manifests itself in multiple forms and my lete father was intelligent and industrious beyond belief. Some forms of Aspergers are shown in social awkwardness. Other forms indeed give rise to learning disabilities. Quite to the contrary of what you believe, individuals with Aspergers are highly successful. These include Bill Gates, Al Gore and Martha Stewart. If you go back, it includes Newton, Einstein and Beethoven. It includes the beautiful Daryl Hannah. Since you have no qualms about offending, then the politeness has to end somewhere if you intend to go down that path. Knoxville is also my wife's childhood hometown, so up yours very much. You may be hot shot in the Carolina Appalachia but give your ego a reality check. IP: Logged |
Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 3174
From: Asheville, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 01:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
You've studied nothing and have no qualifications whatsoever. At least have a graduate degree in psychology like Ami before you attempt to represent medical science. Nor do you have any medical residency to speak off. Neither have you studied any empirical evidence from a statistically significant subset to three standard deviations. Ultimately, you are providing an opinion, which is just fine, but have zero basis whatsoever. Aspergers manifests itself in multiple forms and my lete father was intelligent and industrious beyond belief. Some forms of Aspergers are shown in social awkwardness. Other forms indeed give rise to learning disabilities. Quite to the contrary of what you believe, individuals with Aspergers are highly successful. These include Bill Gates, Al Gore and Martha Stewart. If you go back, it includes Newton, Einstein and Beethoven. It includes the beautiful Daryl Hannah. Since you have no qualms about offending, then the politeness has to end somewhere if you intend to go down that path. Knoxville is also my wife's childhood hometown, so up yours very much. You may be hot shot in the Carolina Appalachia but give your ego a reality check.
 You have no idea what my qualifications are, none, I never speak of them b/c I do not feel the need, unlike some, for external validation. So, do please continue, and do elucidate me about the "democratic" process of how the DSM is assembled, and how categories are added or subtracted. I'll wait. IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 8078
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 21, 2013 02:06 PM
a little side note.... quote:
You have no idea what my qualifications are, none, I never speak of them b/c I do not feel the need, unlike some, for external validation.
Bravo. I see so much projection and assumption on this board it`s a hoot. No one knows what you, I or any other person who doesn`t brag about their credentials do or are. It is also a hoot when one lectures me on my field of work, study and lifetime of achievement. I feel better getting that out there but it probably belongs in the venting thread. 
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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged.
Rumi IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 8472
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 02:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:
So tell me YTA, when did you ever concern oneself with offending anyone when speaking what you believe to be true?"If" aspergers is such a crippling condition, then do tell, a PhD requires a board review of a thesis which is a published work, how did they pull it off. I've studied the DSM, know the process for adding a "condition" to it, and concluded it is utter garbage for the most part, especially how things are classified or removed or created. Have you?
If Aspergers isn't a real condition how come it has caused me so many headaches in life, including getting arrested for a crime I didn't commit? oh yes that really happened ..... Like it or not aspergers is a real thing and it affects a lot of people in a negative way, mostly because other people ( like you ) are intolerant or ignorant of anyone different to them.IP: Logged |
Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 3174
From: Asheville, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 03:08 PM
You've created a circular argument AG"if this were not true then why.." Here is the thing, at the time, things go poorly, perhaps consistently poorly. Instead of self introspection what happens next is..."wow, things did not go my way b/c I said XYZ" When the reality is, sometimes one just has to take it on the chin to learn The ABSOLUTE key to it all is to not let it colour ones life, these things happen AG..they just do One can be perfect, eat "right" workout, have -0- risk factors...and still get tagged with negative stuff Welcome to life, some over educated idiot knows even less about you as your friends do IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 8472
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 03:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:
You've created a circular argument AG"if this were not true then why.." Here is the thing, at the time, things go poorly, perhaps consistently poorly. Instead of self introspection what happens next is..."wow, things did not go my way b/c I said XYZ" When the reality is, sometimes one just has to take it on the chin to learn The ABSOLUTE key to it all is to not let it colour ones life, these things happen AG..they just do One can be perfect, eat "right" workout, have -0- risk factors...and still get tagged with negative stuff Welcome to life, some over educated idiot knows even less about you as your friends do
Well the thing is aspergers is not inherently a negative thing or disability. It becomes a negative thing when ignorant/unaware people come into the picture. As you probably know people are extremely intolerant of anyone different to the majority. A lot of people with aspergers will tell you that non aspie people have made their lives a living hell just because they are different. A lot of people with aspergers get bullied and shunned by their peers. I was never bullied because I was always one of the biggest kids in my grade but people still attacked me in a passive aggressive way all the same. A lot of this stuff could be avoided if people were more tolerant and educated about the condition. Consider the police officer who arrested me for no reason. If he had been educated about aspergers he wouldn't have been such a douche and acted the way he did. This sort of thing happens to people on the spectrum all the time. They are labeled and singled out because ignorant people make blind assumptions about them. I don't care if you disagree with the diagnosis and thinks it's bs. That doesn't mean it isn't real and millions of people struggle with it everyday.
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Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 3174
From: Asheville, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 03:42 PM
See, and here is the problem"I only got arrested b/c of aspergers" Not your actions, one is not non compus mentis, quite the opposite, AG you are extremely bright and putting it out in public WILL come off as "weird" IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 8472
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 03:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:
See, and here is the problem"I only got arrested b/c of aspergers" Not your actions, one is not non compus mentis, quite the opposite, AG you are extremely bright and putting it out in public WILL come off as "weird"
That's the reason though. I am not public about it at all. Only a few people know I have it.IP: Logged |
Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 3174
From: Asheville, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 04:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Padre35:
[b]You've created a circular argument AG"if this were not true then why.." Here is the thing, at the time, things go poorly, perhaps consistently poorly. Instead of self introspection what happens next is..."wow, things did not go my way b/c I said XYZ" When the reality is, sometimes one just has to take it on the chin to learn The ABSOLUTE key to it all is to not let it colour ones life, these things happen AG..they just do One can be perfect, eat "right" workout, have -0- risk factors...and still get tagged with negative stuff Welcome to life, some over educated idiot knows even less about you as your friends do
Well the thing is aspergers is not inherently a negative thing or disability. It becomes a negative thing when ignorant/unaware people come into the picture. As you probably know people are extremely intolerant of anyone different to the majority. A lot of people with aspergers will tell you that non aspie people have made their lives a living hell just because they are different. A lot of people with aspergers get bullied and shunned by their peers. I was never bullied because I was always one of the biggest kids in my grade but people still attacked me in a passive aggressive way all the same. A lot of this stuff could be avoided if people were more tolerant and educated about the condition. Consider the police officer who arrested me for no reason. If he had been educated about aspergers he wouldn't have been such a douche and acted the way he did. This sort of thing happens to people on the spectrum all the time. They are labeled and singled out because ignorant people make blind assumptions about them. I don't care if you disagree with the diagnosis and thinks it's bs. That doesn't mean it isn't real and millions of people struggle with it everyday.[/B][/QUOTE]AG, what makes "you" special..is u
Own it, discard the nonsense
One uses words like "diagnosis" (which is very funny if one knows Latin) as if it were shield
IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 8472
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 04:15 PM
The thing with aspergers is you are pretty much damned if you do and damned if you don't. On the one hand people with aspergers are quickly condemned if we act outside the parameters of socially accepted behavior. On the other hand we are often told we don't have the condition if we speak up about it. This type of treatment doesn't exactly lead to mutual understanding nor does it help. Most people with aspergers don't want to use the condition as a crutch despite what you or others believe. We simply want people to be understanding and a little bit less judgemental towards us. People's normal reaction to social clumsiness or perceived rudeness is to hold it in and passive aggressively attack that person and say mean things about them behind their backs. I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me but suffice it to say it has happened a lot . If people could just calmly tell us that what we said was offensive or socially unacceptable we will apologize and take it as a learning experience. My dear mom or others close to me who know I have aspergers will often whisper to me or pull me aside and say. " what you said was offensive " or something along those lines and it's a lesson learned. I have learned a great deal as a result of this and I can honestly say i make a lot less social faux pauxs than I did when I was younger . While people with aspergers can improve with self reflection and help from others who will act as interpreters so to speak we will always be behind the curve when it comes to social interactions because social rules and expectations are infinite and there are so many variables to consider. As an aspie I make it my mission to learn from my mistakes when I realize I made them . This doesn't mean I suddenly do a 180 and become socially calibrated , it means I learned that it's a bad Idea to say X in Y situation. You can learn lessons like this but it's a slow process and never goes away . We still need people to be understanding and meet us halfway though .IP: Logged |
DeepFreeze
Knowflake Posts: 838
From: Pluto with Barbiegirl19
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted December 21, 2013 04:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
a little side note.... Bravo. I see so much projection and assumption on this board it`s a hoot. No one knows what you, I or any other person who doesn`t brag about their credentials do or are. It is also a hoot when one lectures me on my field of work, study and lifetime of achievement. I feel better getting that out there but it probably belongs in the venting thread.
IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 6708
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted December 21, 2013 05:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:
You have no idea what my qualifications are, none, I never speak of them b/c I do not feel the need, unlike some, for external validation.
Because you have none.
And therefore are absolutely unqualified to talk about a subject matter that is beyond you, without looking like total buffoons. IP: Logged |
Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 3174
From: Asheville, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted December 21, 2013 06:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Because you have none.And therefore are absolutely unqualified to talk about a subject matter that is beyond you, without looking like total buffoons.
So do tell, how was/is the DSM compiled, and how disorders are recognized and how treatments are recommended? Once again, not very impressed YTA, you remind of the "dragon" in Chinese Astrology...All puff, no show IP: Logged | |
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